Dear all, Looks like this eureka moment is too much for some to handle.
>From the point of view of Eastern Philosophy, there is no denial of intellect, >but merely placing it in its proper place. But from the point of view of Western intellect, there seems to be a great fear of mysticism derived from self introspection. This is its great limitation. RMP has endeavoured to provide a place for it in the expansion of intellect by including Quality or Dynamic Quality in the centre of the MOQ. However, recent discussion has been anti-mysticism and by extension anti-Quality, anti DQ. One needs to rise above intellect to experience DQ. I have been waiting years for signs of this realisation by the discussion group. Alas. the moment there is a glimmer of this happening, the moderator wishes to stamp it out. I post occassionally from the Eastern perspective in what is practically a Western Forum. But there is no place for my views here, moderate as they are, so I will leave. Thank you all for a decade and more of your exchanges. All the best. Goodbye. Khoo Hock Aun Unsubscribe. Sent by DiGi from my BlackBerry® Smartphone -----Original Message----- From: Horse <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected]: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 11:57:39 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: [MD] DQ vs. Intellect? Greetings MD-ers ################################################### *MOQ_DISCUSS - Charter and Rules* The MOQ_DISCUSS mailing list exists to provide a general and free-ranging forum for the discussion of Robert M. Pirsig's *Metaphysics of Quality*. ################################################### I think much of the problem here is that MD is (and always has been) set up to discuss Pirsig's MoQ and not set up as Mystics 'R' Us!! The foundation of the MoQ is an intellect centred text which requires an intellectual approach - to simply state that intellectual values are unwelcome, evil or redundant in an intellectual environment is ridiculous! The problem, as I see it, is that approaching an intellectually centred discussion group from a 'mystic perspective' produces a great number of problems - not least of which is the apparent mystical desire to circumvent rationality and ignore trivialities such as definitions! What this produces is an 'anything goes' environment in which intellect and rationality are flushed down the toilet. MD is a philosophy discussion group and as such needs to apply the rules of philosophy to any discussion. This requires a rational and intellectual approach. It also requires the use of rational definitions - not self-contradictory statements which support a non-intellectual point of view. What I've been seeing here recently is an attempt to undermine the intellectual aspect of the MoQ by the inappropriate use of a 'mystical perspective' - and, according to the MoQ and it's author, this is just plain bullshit. A 'mystical perspective' (i.e. a DQ centred approach within an intellect centred environment) is, literally, non sense! How the hell do you have a discussion about that which cannot be defined? There is no definition of DQ - it's a logical and rational impossibility - and without a definition there can be no discussion! DMB, Ron, Arlo, et alia, are doing exactly the right thing by calling out certain people as anti-intellectual, when they are using a non-existent (by definition) 'perspective' to undermine the principles of the environment within which they are situated. This is not a strawman argument, it is to prevent a self-serving attempt to undermine and destroy a valid approach to a philosophical system of thought. You do not do DQ justice by destroying Intellectual patterns any more than you do justice to Intellectual patterns by destroying Social patterns where there is no threat to intellect. DQ is not being threatened, relegated or ignored by Intellect on MD so to use this as an excuse to do so is, at best, specious. So, for those 'mystics' who wish to remain within the MD I will make this, initially, polite request. Please refrain from specious arguments using a non-existent viewpoint to support an intent to destroy a forum which exists to discuss a philosophical proposition which requires an intellectual and rational approach. If you are unable to do so then please leave and find somewhere that will fit your requirements better. Cheers Horse -- "Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --- Frank Zappa Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
