Dan: As I said (repeated ad nauseum) to Harding, there is no enlightenment. It is only those who have yet to climb the mountain that the mountain exists. Once at the top, one can see there never was any mountain at all. Going back down into the valley the mountain exists once again but only as an analogy.
[Ron] Well thats the perspective in which the Pragmatic theory of truth opperates on in terms of meaningful analogies, yet what is harped apon (ad nauseum) in typical reactionary style is to paint that Pragmatic theory of truth as possesive of the climber who has yet to climb the mountain and attacked on those grounds. Attacking it on those grounds is not to understand the use and meaning of the Pragmatic theory of truth. > > In the new introduction to LILA, Pirsig writes: > Zen Buddhism is sometimes symbolised with a circle.The bottom of this > circle is where a student of Zen starts.At the 180 degree top of the circle > is Zen enlightenment.Here the student has completely left the world of > everyday affairs, sometimes called “small self,” and entered the world of > the buddhas, or “big self.” > Dan: There are many different schools of zen. Sometimes it is symbolized with a circle, as Robert Pirsig says. Sometimes it is not. Sometimes students start at the bottom of that symbolic circle. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes the student completely leaves the world of everyday affairs. Sometimes they do not. In zen nothing is written in stone. Each path is as individual as we are. [Ron] This is what I mean by avoiding the context of Paul Turners paper, and also the criticism of your post with an arfully woven dismissal of the key topic of conversation. RMP is speaking about the meaning of the symbol and how it refers to what is being discussed not an absolute statement regarding Zen. RMP continues: > But the circle is only half completed. > > The student, who has previously been directed by the events of his > everyday life, is now directed in the buddhas’ world by a force called > “dharma” which translates as “duty” but means a lot more.He does not just > follow this dharma, he is one with it.He completes the circle, returning > with an enlightened understanding to integrate himself with the world of > everyday affairs. > Dan: Some students may be directed as such. Others not so much. Part of the reason I am here is to share the knowledge I gained while working with Robert Pirsig and others. If someone cares to read what I have to say, that is fine. If they do not, that is fine too. I realize there are those such as yourself who are incapable of understanding in the first place. However, it does become rather disheartening to spend so much time on these posts only to be ignored and blown off by those who could no doubt benefit the most by reading them. When I read effusive praise for Paul's work (and don't get me wrong... it is a great piece of writing) and at the same time I see him saying many of the same things I said only in a slightly different context it tends to make me wonder what I am doing here at all. [Ron] But you are not even recognizing the context as valid, how could your meaning be in any regard, within the same context as one you find invalid? .. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
