Khoo, before you go (and it's my sincere wish that you don't) could you
explain to me how one comes to a mystic understanding through intellect?
Neither myself, DMB, Ron, Arlo etc. etc. wish to denigrate DQ or subsume
it within Intellect.
The problem here is that some do not appear to understand the nature of
a philosophical discussion group. I have, I believe, experienced DQ
through both music and Iaido and I certainly have no wish to dismiss DQ
as irrelevant or otherwise. It was also DMB who managed to get it
through my thick skull that DQ is central to Quality so I know damn well
that he understands the DQ/Quality relationship.
However, using something called a 'DQ perspective' or claiming to be a
mystic in order to trash intellect is also immoral within an
intellectual environment.
So if you haven't already unsubscribed please explain to me where I am
being unreasonable.
Are you so sure that like many others you aren't confusing the MoQ
(static quality) with DQ just as some in the past have confused the MoQ
with reality!!!
Yes, DQ is central to Quality but the MoQ is not a synonym for Quality -
or do you believe otherwise?
Cheers
Horse
On 07/06/2013 12:31, [email protected] wrote:
Dear all,
Looks like this eureka moment is too much for some to handle.
>From the point of view of Eastern Philosophy, there is no denial of intellect,
but merely placing it in its proper place.
But from the point of view of Western intellect, there seems to be a great
fear of mysticism derived from self introspection. This is its great limitation.
RMP has endeavoured to provide a place for it in the expansion of intellect by
including Quality or Dynamic Quality in the centre of the MOQ.
However, recent discussion has been anti-mysticism and by extension
anti-Quality, anti DQ.
One needs to rise above intellect to experience DQ.
I have been waiting years for signs of this realisation by the discussion group.
Alas. the moment there is a glimmer of this happening, the moderator wishes to
stamp it out.
I post occassionally from the Eastern perspective in what is practically a
Western Forum.
But there is no place for my views here, moderate as they are, so I will leave.
Thank you all for a decade and more of your exchanges.
All the best.
Goodbye.
Khoo Hock Aun
Unsubscribe.
Sent by DiGi from my BlackBerry® Smartphone
-----Original Message-----
From: Horse <[email protected]>
Sender: [email protected]: Fri, 07 Jun 2013 11:57:39
To: <[email protected]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
Subject: [MD] DQ vs. Intellect?
Greetings MD-ers
###################################################
*MOQ_DISCUSS - Charter and Rules*
The MOQ_DISCUSS mailing list exists to provide a general and
free-ranging forum for the discussion of Robert M. Pirsig's *Metaphysics
of Quality*.
###################################################
I think much of the problem here is that MD is (and always has been) set
up to discuss Pirsig's MoQ and not set up as Mystics 'R' Us!!
The foundation of the MoQ is an intellect centred text which requires an
intellectual approach - to simply state that intellectual values are
unwelcome, evil or redundant in an intellectual environment is ridiculous!
The problem, as I see it, is that approaching an intellectually centred
discussion group from a 'mystic perspective' produces a great number of
problems - not least of which is the apparent mystical desire to
circumvent rationality and ignore trivialities such as definitions! What
this produces is an 'anything goes' environment in which intellect and
rationality are flushed down the toilet.
MD is a philosophy discussion group and as such needs to apply the rules
of philosophy to any discussion. This requires a rational and
intellectual approach. It also requires the use of rational definitions
- not self-contradictory statements which support a non-intellectual
point of view.
What I've been seeing here recently is an attempt to undermine the
intellectual aspect of the MoQ by the inappropriate use of a 'mystical
perspective' - and, according to the MoQ and it's author, this is just
plain bullshit. A 'mystical perspective' (i.e. a DQ centred approach
within an intellect centred environment) is, literally, non sense! How
the hell do you have a discussion about that which cannot be defined?
There is no definition of DQ - it's a logical and rational impossibility
- and without a definition there can be no discussion!
DMB, Ron, Arlo, et alia, are doing exactly the right thing by calling
out certain people as anti-intellectual, when they are using a
non-existent (by definition) 'perspective' to undermine the principles
of the environment within which they are situated. This is not a
strawman argument, it is to prevent a self-serving attempt to undermine
and destroy a valid approach to a philosophical system of thought.
You do not do DQ justice by destroying Intellectual patterns any more
than you do justice to Intellectual patterns by destroying Social
patterns where there is no threat to intellect. DQ is not being
threatened, relegated or ignored by Intellect on MD so to use this as an
excuse to do so is, at best, specious.
So, for those 'mystics' who wish to remain within the MD I will make
this, initially, polite request.
Please refrain from specious arguments using a non-existent viewpoint to
support an intent to destroy a forum which exists to discuss a
philosophical proposition which requires an intellectual and rational
approach. If you are unable to do so then please leave and find
somewhere that will fit your requirements better.
Cheers
Horse
--
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring production deadlines
or dates by which bills must be paid."
— Frank Zappa
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