[Platt] I don't know what planet you are living on at times, Arlo. Surely you know what ultimately happens to people who don't pay taxes due.
[Arlo] Only when (as Case points out) you want to pay but not play. You want the good, you have to pay for the system that provides, supports and sustains it. I do this happily, even though I support allocation rethinking, collection re-engineering and greater oversight. I guess its a shame some people have to be forced "at the point of a gun" to help pay for the system that has supports and sustains the life they enjoy; from police and military protection to public lands to free road and waterways to libraries and museums to EMT services to a social safety net to meals on wheels to literacy programs and public education. But I guess some people need to be forced "at the point of a gun" not to murder other people too. [Platt] Can you point to any national communist system that isn't or wasn't totalitarian? [Arlo] There has never been a truly communist government in history. The closest we can point to is the Amish and the Jewish Kibbutz. Although I would gather that the Iroquois Confederacy may have come close to Marxism (although Marx was primarily concerned with post-industrial societies, and felt himself that it was impossible to pass from an agrarian to a communist phase without first passing through the industrial phase). [Platt] Yes, shiny toy objects like EKG monitors, anesthesia machines, respiratory ventilators, cautery units, etc, etc. -- all those objects that save countless lives. But why point this out when capitalism to you means exploitation. [Arlo] I point out the flaws because there is a sycophantic blindness in the dialogue that pretends exploitation and the schism described by Pirsig in ZMM don't happen or don't matter. These "toys" you mention are wonderful, but we should never lose sight of the fact that they are not what makes our lives ultimately meaningful. (Believe it or not, people led full and meaningful lives before capitalism). Family, friends, community, wisdom, understanding, the appreciation of beauty, of harmony, or shared laughter and shared pain, of knowing what it means to be human, to be here, to share history and sing songs and paint pictures and solve equations and hunt and fish and hike and ride motorcycles with our sons and daughters. These things, among many others you could name, are what truly matters in life. An EKG machine can extend your days, but it doesn't give your life meaning. moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
