Gabba Gabba Hey indeed Case [Krimel] The problem is that fitness or betterness can really only be determined after the fact. To then claim they are the driving force is naïve.
Ian replies No, the naive thing is the interpretation of the idea of "driving force" as something pre-determined and simplisticly causal. Whereas as Platt (really !) points out there are strange (emergent) loops afoot. Meta-bettereness, maybe, a tendency to approach betterness, for fitnes to emerge, without any pre-conception of what is better. Fit is a two-way process. Ian On 5/4/07, Krimel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > [Ian] > Of course the word for "betterness" as the principle driving evolution > is usually "Fitness" .... or quality, or value, ... > > Much misundersood word "fitness", which is why alternatives are useful. > > [Krimel] > The problem is that fitness or betterness can really only be determined > after the fact. To then claim they are the driving force is naïve. > > [Arlo] > The question is, if it is "better" to evolve into homo sapiens than swamp > scum, why doesn't swamp scum evolve into homo sapiens? Or, if swamp scum > doesn't evolve into homo sapiens, does this make it immoral? Existentially > (or > otherwise) inferior? > > "Betterness" is highly and unavoidably contextual. And it is often used to > justify an existential superiority that draws from the arrogant presumption > that "man" is above and apart from the world around us. > > That said, "betterness" is Quality. But it is "better" to say that "some > patterns evolved into homo sapiens because it was better for them to do so", > a usage that maintains the contextual and ecological specificity of the > term, than to make mostly meaningless comments like "being homo sapiens is > better than X". > > In other words, when "better" is used to illuminate Quality relationships in > an ecological context, it is a Good term. When "better" is used to develop > acontextual hierarchies of superiority, it is a poor term. > > [Krimel] > As I have said many times I do not think Quality necessarily mean better. > There are low Quality events. But you are right context is all important. > > [Arlo] > I am listening to the Ramones right now because it is "better" for me to do > so, but that does not mean listening to the Ramones is better for all people > and all times. > > [Krimel] > As you well know discussing evolution with Platt is likely to make you want > to scream out "I wanna be sedated!" > > Gabba gabba hey! > > moq_discuss mailing list > Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. > http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org > Archives: > http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ > http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/ > moq_discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org.uk/pipermail/moq_discuss_archive/
