I'm not pretending to be any sort of authority on the MoQ, and have also had
no association with Pirsig other than the writer-reader relationship.

1. I'm not sure if Pirsig would agree with the phrase "experiencing
qualities" because it's not qualities, it's Quality; and secondly, Quality
itself is experience. Initially, when I was lost in the cryptic beginning of
ZAMM, I thought Quality was supposed to mean not Goodness but
"characteristic" (and hence supposed to mean any state of mind other than
dreamless sleep), simply because I couldn't conceive how everything could be
Good; and even if everything was good, how do you even know what is good
(because to know the good you need to know the bad -- you can't just know
the colour blue, you have to know it in relation to some other colour).

Quality cannot fully be associated with memory, because you also experience
something that is outside memory (I suppose, rather naively, that Dynamic
Quality and static Quality point to the difference between novelty and
memory -- though certainly this would be valid only an intellectual level,
for inorganic static patterns have no concept of memory).

2. We value experiences differently (or rather, we value different
experiences) because our former experiences have molded us so. Now why that
is the case, I know not, because that knowledge belongs to a system outside
my mind's capacity of reach (similar to Hofstadter's explanation). Maybe
because there are patterns greater than us that decide what each part of the
system is supposed to value (the Giant).

-- Akshay

On 5/11/07, David M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> When we experience qualities are these a form of memory?
> Why do we value experiences differently?
>
> David M
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Krimel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Friday, May 11, 2007 1:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [MD] Collective intelligence
>
>
> > Micah,
> >
> > [!Crime!]I really like that! Mind if I use it?
> >
> > If not I suppose ]Crime[ might work...
> >
> > Maybe this is, you say potato and I say potatoe. But I say, you and I
> > actually do share the exact same memories of Viet Nam in ways that have
> > never in history been possible. There is old news footage and still
> > images.
> > Have you seen Platoon, Full Metal Jacket, Born on the Fourth of July,
> The
> > Dearhunter? How many songs in the soundtrack of Apocalypse Now were
> > familiar
> > to you? Woodstock, Easy Rider. How about Kent State and CSN&Y's Four Way
> > Street album?
> >
> > How many stupid burglar videos are on YouTube? Many of the memories you
> > and
> > I share about VietNam, 911, the moon landing, the Super Bowl, the season
> > ending of Lost are all experienced in nearly identical fashion.
> >
> > Not only that but search engines make access to this information nearly
> > instantaneous. You don't have to watch television in real time anymore.
> If
> > you missed the season ending of Lost you can rent it from NetFlix or buy
> > it
> > in Walmart.
> >
> > These memories are not collected anywhere. We each have to seek them out
> > but
> > there are more of them and they are easier to get ever in history. This
> is
> > an expansion of consciousness and collective awareness beyond anything
> the
> > giants we are standing on could ever have imagined.
> >
> > ]!Crime![
> >
> > "I remember how she held me, oh so tight. Wish I didn't know now what I
> > didn't know then."
> > -Bob Seger
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > We share our memories with others, but we do not have "collective
> memory";
> > we have shared collected memory. I can read about the Vietnam War, but
> > that
> > does not mean I have a memory of it. Or I can share a memory with you,
> but
> > you only have a story of my memory, not my memory. There is no
> "collective
> > memory" or "collective intelligence". We stand on the shoulders of
> giants,
> > but we are not the giants.
> >
> > "Lately I've been dancing in ceiling fans, in through the kitchen and
> out
> > the back gate".
> >                                                          - Butthole
> > Surfers
> >
> >
> > Micah
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <Micah,
> >
> > <I guess I did not think my use of the term library would be taken quite
> > so
> > <literally. Information is collected in a library. Our common shared
> > memories
> > <are distributed in libraries, the internet, in video stores and record
> > <shops, in photo albums and diaries, in the studio values and television
> > <network archives.
> >
> > <Among the greatest crimes of the past century was that idea that this
> > <collective memory could be owned and metered.
> >
> > <Krimel
> >
> > <"We all live in a yellow submarine."
> > <-Ringo Starr
> >
> >
> > moq_discuss mailing list
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> >
>
>
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