Randall Cutting wrote:Just because you say it is NIMBY, it is? No, it's not. I want the traffic in my neighborhood to drive on the streets designed to carry it. I want them to obey the laws. That's got nothing to do with wanting the traffic to just go to someone else's "backyard."
The point of traffic calming is not to prevent access, rather it is a method to encourage appropriate driving behavior. Drivers that respect the residents and businesses within a neighborhood are very welcome to be there. Those drivers that would rather drive at highway speed should use the highways.
If someone wishes to drive neighborhood streets they need to respect that
community. If it has been determined that traffic calming techniques are
necessary, then the community is trying to tell drivers to... DRIVE
CALMER.
Mark Anderson:
You've unintentionally hit the nail on the head here. EVERYONE has
determined that traffic calming is necessary. Have you heard of a
neighborhood that has decided that calming isn't necessary for their area?
Everyone wants traffic to move like snails through their neighborhood, or
failing that, drive in somebody else's neighborhood. Contrary to Chris
Johnson's comments, this is all about NIMBY. It's not just the small
streets that are subject to this craze, it's the thoroughfares also, such as
50th St, Lyndale, and Lake St. that I've heard about. I think maybe the
neighborhoods do have too much power, at least in this area. If the city
came up with a master plan that actually allowed the cars to drive
somewhere, maybe it would make a little more sense.
You've "heard" about 50th, Lyndale and Lake traffic? You should go visit them in person. But then, if you hadn't done that over the years, you wouldn't really have a base to compare them to now.
Yes, I agree. The city ought to master plan the whole city. Not that these selfish drivers would follow the design, or that Hennepin County or the State of Minnesota (especially) would actually LET them. MnDOT's busy trying to shove the Excess project, more lanes on 35W and more lanes on 62 taking more Minneapolis neighborhoods and putting them under concrete. I've not seen much in the way of road-planning brilliance from the county, though there is hope there. They did seem to cooperate on the 50th street work. You did know that 50th was a county road, right? There's a lot of them in Minneaoplis, and the city doesn't just get to do what it plans, as practical as that might be.
Mark Anderson:I see you are completely clueless about how changes come about. There is nothing natural whatsoever about car manufacturers, oil companies, etc. pushing for greater use of the automobile, lobbying for greater taxpayer spending on paving over ever larger areas with concrete. It's all cause and effect, money and power, influence and decision making. Right-wing sprawlers like to talk about letting the free market do its thing and insisting that's how we got where we are, blithely remaining stupidly ignorant of all the subsidization and externalities that have actually distorted the market so that it bears no resemblance to the free market they blather about. Free markets assume informed decision making; there hasn't been any with respect to roads and sprawl.
Cry me a river, Chris. Things change, that's life. We live in a city, and
things don't stay the same. I agree that the city should endeavor not to
change neighborhoods with their activities, because people decided to move
into their neighborhoods for a reason, and it messes everybody up (although
the city shouldn't be paralyzed just because they might change a
neighborhood). But it certainly isn't the city's job to offset changes that
come naturally to the neighborhood. Because there has been great amount of
development in the southwest metro area in the last 30 years, Fulton has
been subject to ever increasing traffic of cars going between Mpls and the
suburbs. But I don't think the city has the obligation to return Fulton to
its bucolic antecedents.
My neighborhood is not experiencing more traffic because of southwest metro development -- outside of tiny increases caused by increasing congestion on 35W, 62, and 100 in the past 10-15 years -- but rather a combination of selfish attitudes and lawlessness. People don't want to sit and wait for the traffic lights on 50th, Lyndale or Penn, so they run the stop signs on 51st, 54th and Xerxes. It's much harder to run red lights in heavy traffic and "live" to tell about it. It's very easy to run stop signs and it saves these oh-so important people 30 to 120 seconds on their commute.
I know how it works. I and hundreds of other people like me used to blast down 31st Street to avoid the many more numerous lights on Lake Street. I'm sure residents along that street hated me. I probably saved 2 minutes every afternoon commute. Then I made the "mistake" of actually buying a house on 31st and getting my come-uppance -- and learning a thing or two.
I hope your light goes on someday, too.
Chris Johnson Fulton
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