OH - I'd be very unhappy to have even lent anyone a stick to beat anyone
else's way of making work.
For me it's the increasing convergence of the most ancient and the most modern
ways of doing things that is fascinating. I can't imagine stopping taking
photographs or making movies or writing music but I also crave lots more of
that physical engagement that comes with the drawing.
This year I have had a show where my piece used javascript, html and lingo to
make something generative;
I've done lots of stuff arising out of the idea of remixing, I've taken a
shitload of photos and I've...drawn. All of them were great to do & I can't
belive that they didn't have some impact on each other.
The only thing I am sceptical about is when people say "ought" ...
The fact that I present my drawings to you, not as drawings but as digital
images of drawings a on a web 2.0 application has too, I think, some
significance...
I have to say though that, personally, I still feel that what goes on in my
head when I photograph and when I draw is very closely related (and I think
this is because I only came to feeling I had the confidence to *photograph*
well after the digital was standard and I've never made a photo that I didn't
work over in some way, even if it was just getting it from RAW to jpeg, it's
just natural for me to think that a photographic image is both performative, a
selction but also compositional). Likewise there's something performative and
snapshot like about some of the drawings which were done trying to capture
someone moving fast across my field of vision (some done from the passenger
seat :) of a car) & I can't help feeling my years of working with *frames* of
video has some relevance here in the places in the drawings where I've almost
stacked up, superimposed, different positions of the subject..
I'm delgihted that netbehaviour can embrace a whole number of different
practices and approaches & that we're able to have discussion like this...
warm wishes
michael
________________________________
From: Joel Weishaus <[email protected]>
To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
<[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] fail better
Simon;
I've found taking photographs rewarding because the
camera seems to have a mind of its own. Even a digital camera
is still a "magic lantern."
As for writing code, I personally agree with
you. The computer to me is a tool; although, to paraphrase the
poet Gary Snyder, "Tools. Now there's a subject!"
-Joel
----- Original Message -----
>From: Simon Mclennan
>To: bob catchpole ; NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 8:55 AM
>Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] fail better
>
>Very very interesting that this has been commented on so much.
>I suspect the reason is that this is a web based forum with contributers who
>have some stake in new media ie freakin boring computers (I say this as a one
>time street artist and latecomer to computers) and so when somebody picks up
>a paint brush it's like woo hoo how exotic.
>Personally I still find the idea of programming a computer incredibly boring
>- however I give you guys some slack and say cool if you want to make code
>into poetry. To me a machine is merely an end to a means, in this case
>artistic expression.
>Lets all paint paint paint - make a big bonfire of cameras - they were always
>a con ;)
>
>
>Simon
>On 15 Jan 2012, at 16:27, bob catchpole wrote:
>
>Michael,
>>
>>
>>I disagree with John Baldessari. Painting and photography are radically
>>different picture-making processes - one is based on synthesis and the other
>>on selection. In a painting or drawing you start with nothing and have to
>>add. In photography you start with everything and have to extract.
>>
>>
>>Your drawing are strong because they capture something about you.
>>
>>
>>
>>Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Michael Szpakowski <[email protected]>
>>>To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>>><[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Sunday, 15 January 2012, 15:11
>>>Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] fail better
>>>
>>>
>>>Once again thanks for the interesting, helpful and encouraging responses.
>>>I feel strangely the same when I point my camera at something and when I do
>>>a sketch "in the moment" - I'm quite impressed by Patrick Maynard's
>>>argument which seems to be that drawing and photography are essentially
>>>both just processes of mark making....
>>>I think I could quite quickly produce you a photo of a unicorn actually -
>>>I'm deeply sceptical about all the indexical , one-one correspondence to
>>>reality - blather about photos. It was pretty much never the defining
>>>feature ( ask Joe Stalin) and it certainly isn't now.
>>>Moreover I'm not convinced that when I draw I'm any less a "mechanism" of
>>>some kind for creating a kind of map of at least some parts of reality than
>>>I am when I photograph (or remix photos which is something I've been doing
>>>a lot). I'm with Baldessari who scratched his head ( I'm dramatising of
>>>course and quoting from memory here) and said he couldn't really see that
>>>much difference between painting and photographs...
>>>Anyway, theory aside, that I should get such kind and helpful feedback is
>>>one of the reasons I love netbehaviour :)
>>>warm wishes
>>>michael
>>>
>>>
>>>OK -just found it:
>>>John Baldessari : “A photograph and a painting are essentially the same
>>>thing. One is just a series of pigments in emulsifier put down on canvas,
>>>while the other is silver nitrate deposits put down on paper. There is very
>>>little difference between the two.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: Perry Bard <[email protected]>
>>>To: NetBehaviour for networked distributed creativity
>>><[email protected]>
>>>Sent: Sunday, January 15, 2012 1:53 PM
>>>Subject: Re: [NetBehaviour] fail better
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Last night a philosopher friend Nick Pappas and I had this very
>>>conversation-about the properties of photo vs painting and drawing. WJT
>>>Mitchell in Intention and Artifice isolates an essential difference- the
>>>referent adheres in a photo- you can paint a unicorn but not photograph one
>>>(irrefutable, no?). Nick argued that a camera is an object- you point and
>>>record, even if you make a mistake or someone jostles your hand you record
>>>a specific moment in time whereas a drawing records a moment in
>>>consciousness.
>>>Perry
>>>
>>>
>>>On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 8:19 AM, Annie Abrahams <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>I do think Michael you have a lot of formal technique - the way you chose,
>>>frame and compose the image, the way you look at things is very
>>>"sophisticated".
>>>>I was wondering what
for you makes these drawings so different from your photos? Why do you
want to do it?
>>>>Is it a question of time? of attention?of meditation?
of trying to grasp something in a world too full of information?
>>>>For
me your drawings are full of time and
>>>>they are brave
>>>>I love to
see them.
>>>>Annie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Rob Myers <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>On 14/01/12 17:00, Michael Szpakowski wrote:
>>>>>> thank-you
Joel...
>>>>>> I don't honestly know how I expect people to react.
I'm pretty obsessed
>>>>>> at the moment...
>>>>>> I know that
drawing is something I really want to keep doing.
>>>>>> warm
wishes
>>>>>> michael
>>>>>
>>>>>You have a good eye for form, space and tone. As someone who's an
>>>>>enthusiastic rather than a
competent draughtsperson I really admire what
>>>>>you are doing here.
Do keep doing!
>>>>>
>>>>>-
Rob.
>>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>NetBehaviour
mailing list
>>>>>[email protected]
>>>>>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>--
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Extrait en photo et son de la performance HUIS-CLOS / NO EXIT Training for
>>>>a Better World
>>>>http://www.documentary-art.net/tag/watch-now.php?&ref=344
>>>>Plus
de photos :
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bramorg/sets/72157628514083331/
>>>>
>>>>"Die
Ewigkeit/ L'éternité", Antye GREIE / Annie ABRAHAMS - DUET - SATZ
4 - Rêves / Utopia / Dreams http://vimeo.com/33907750
>>>>http://www.bram.org
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>NetBehaviour
mailing list
>>>>[email protected]
>>>>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>www.perrybard.net
>>>http://dziga.perrybard.net
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>NetBehaviour
mailing list
>>>[email protected]
>>>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>NetBehaviour
mailing list
>>>[email protected]
>>>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>NetBehaviour mailing list
>>[email protected]
>>http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
>
>________________________________
> _______________________________________________
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list
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