Hi Alan,
I hear you.
I agree with all you say.
but I was not arguing against the usefulness, inspirational power or
validity of science (I hope and think you know this)
just that science (so far as I know) has not yet provided us with
knowledge (that we can apply with any consistency) about how to stop
(ourselves or others) behaving (individually or collectively) like
arseholes, nor how to coordinate collectively for the highest interest
of all living beings.
So the chart is more a celebration of the many (human and non-human)
ways there are of knowing, rather than a bash at science (with the help
of which we know A LOT!).
On 06/09/15 18:13, Alan Sondheim wrote:
it's also science that deals with the horror, albeit differently - the
studies done of desertification for example in the mid-east.
science knows more than scientifically in the same way that art knows
more than artistically, etc. - for me, the reason I'm interested in
cosmology and particle physics, it gives me an idea where we've come
from, what's out there, what we're made of, etc. and it extends my
knowledge beyond what's given to us as human perception.
certainly it knows (not science, which knows nothing, but scientists)
are motivated by the vastness of the world...
and science as much as any other field deals with what horrifies and
debilitates, think of ebola for example...
Alan (who secretly likes situationism, but not its reification)
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015, ruth catlow wrote:
I won't pick an argument with you about Situationism: )
but i must defend the symbolic precision of the pie chart!
not because science isn't a good way of knowing things
but because science only knows how to know things scientifically.
and it cannot (because of its nature) know the vastness and
multi-faceted worlds of reality to which it cannot even begin to
apply its knowledge acquisition tools.
For this reason I also think it is a particularly good joke!
I paired it with the Situationism quote because it encourages an
attitude of curiosity towards things that otherwise horrify and
terrify... (and therefore debilitate)
On 06/09/15 15:36, Alan Sondheim wrote:
Yes, but I'd reverse the chart labels!
- Alan (always suspicious of situationism) (not looking for another
argument) (just got up)
On Sun, 6 Sep 2015, ruth catlow wrote:
Above: (left) /Scientific Diagramme/ (right) /Drawing of a quote
from The Joy of Revolution by Ken Knabb//
/
Please accept my contribution to the conversation (above).
Very appreciative of the efforts by all here to make sense and
meaning. Thank you.
Ruth
On 06/09/15 07:29, Antye Greie-Ripatti wrote:
thanks for sharing your thoughts? on all ends, i just want to say,
it means something
in regards to syria, i read this this morning and it helped a bit
to understand (cause also Putin is playing)
http://www.vox.com/2015/9/5/9265621/syrian-refugee-charts
like all conflicts these days they have so many layers and the
complexity and depth,
like Ukraine for instance, which is ongoing and severe too
people also leaving the country constantly?
etc
blaming could be also called history writing/ rewriting understanding
and its is super important and all crisis are US crises too, cause
they been playing hard!
but solutions --->
The enormous profits which Halliburton and Cheney won should be
taxed and paid to the refugees they created with the obscene Iraq
war, a war based on lies and at flagrant crime against
international law and common sense.
true!
keep spreading
i just re-read the entire "vietnam war' wikipedia entry yesterday
cause suddenly i couldnt remember WHY there was a war
i wanted to explain my daughter
?
insane
sorry, fragmented comments
On Sep 5, 2015, at 12:59 AM, Ana Vald?s <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Dear Alan you have been in the Middle East as I has been. Israel
receives per year billions of American support both military and
economic. Without the American support Israel could not manage
the fences in the West Bank and in Gaza.
They cost millions to keep. The new fence, separating the town of
Bethlem in two, is cutting the Catholic monastery of Cremisan,
which vineyards has been the only working place for hundreds of
Palestinian families, in two. The Palestinian are not going any
longer to access the vineyards.
The US was the heir of the colonial European and was the
kingmaker of the region for years. The Marines derrocated the
Iranian first minister In 1954 because he wanted to nationalise
the oil and manage the wells without the American oil companies.
It's not me "blaming the US" without historical facts. The same
facts Eisenhower stated when he said "we are the hostages of the
military industrial establishment".
My point is: who toppled Saddam and Ghadaffi and who has been
supporting Assad all these years? The US economical and
geopolitical strategies has created the refugees which are
fleeing today the region and they are seen by politicians, weapon
dealers, war mongers and bankers as "collateral damage".
That's my point why we are not seen in these days the same
rallies to support the refugees we are seen in Europe?
You say "US is giving more than many other countries". But that's
the most bizarre paradox: The US is taking with a hand and giving
with the other hand.
The enormous profits which Halliburton and Cheney won should be
taxed and paid to the refugees they created with the obscene Iraq
war, a war based on lies and at flagrant crime against
international law and common sense.
Ana
Skickat fr?n min iPhone
4 sep 2015 kl. 18:17 skrev Alan Sondheim <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>:
But the refugees ARE a European problem, and France was in the
mid-east as well, England had its empire, Belgium its Leopold.
You keep going after blame after blame after blame. Why not ask
why the US is doing little? Apparently it's giving a lot more
aid than other countries (think that was in the Guardian, I
might be able to track the source down) combined. And Europe
would not be taking refugees in, were they not coming across
"its" borders. That's not the case here; what is the case is the
horrific xenophobia which is placing the U.S. under lockdown. I
see lots of calls for humanitarian support and aid, very little
for bringing refugees over - I'm also not sure how that would be
done, where they would come from - and this in the case of
brutal opposition to the 11 million (apparently) undocumented
workers/migrants here from central and south America - which is
obviously far more than the total migrants to date in Europe.
I'd like to see ALL refugees everywhere legalized; I can't do
anything re: Europe, but we voice our opposition here to the
Republican party and its proto- fascistic take on the world.
That's pretty much all I can say about it.
- Alan
On Fri, 4 Sep 2015, Ana Vald?s wrote:
We see in the whole European world ppl gathering in supporting
the refugees
biking to Calais from London with tents food and medicines in
Stockholm
where I lived for almost my whole adult life thousands of
families are
offering to open their houses to refugees.
And I am talking about a country with a xenophobe party with
almost one
million voters.
Alan and the Americans in this list what are the US doing? I
don't mean the
government but the ppl where are the rallies to help the
refugees from the
Middle East, a region in turmoil since the wars started by the
US and their
geopolitical strategies?
The refugees can't be an European problem.
Ana
El sep 4, 2015 2:39 PM, "Alan Sondheim" <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> escribi?:
Germany is set to take in 800,000 refugees by the end of the
year.
America, a country that won two World Wars, went to the moon,
and did "the other things," has taken in, well, far fewer.
Quoth the Guardian:
The US has admitted approximately 1,500 Syrian refugees
since the beginning of the civil war there in 2011, mostly
within the last fiscal year. Since April, the number of
admitted
refugees has more than doubled from an estimate of 700.
...
Anna Greene, IRCs director of policy & advocacy for US
programs, said the 1,500 people the US has admitted thus far
doesnt even begin to scratch the surface of what is needed and
what could really make a difference.
Oxfam wants the US to up that number to 70,000 by the end of
2016.
Correction: This post and its headline originally said that
Germany planned to take in 800,000 Syrian refugees by the
end of
the year. That is incorrect. It is 800,000 refugees total.
- Alan
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