Rob, thanks for your thoughtful ideas. My comments in-line....

Quoting Rob Styles <>:

> Hi Karen,

> I'd like to understand if you're modelling this as a person, or as a  
>  "bibliographic entity" as obviously that has implications.

Given that it is called "author", (and I'm only trying to reflect the  
modeling already done in OL), I suspect that this is a bibliographic  
entity. I'll think about doing the Person modeling. Another option is  
frbr:Person, isn't it? However, frbr defines Person as a bibliographic  
entity, as I recall.

> Putting  aside the possible confusion of pen-names my preference  
> would be to  see the author modelled as a person, or an organisation  
> if a  corporate author. This should be shown as a type statement so  
> we  know which way OL goes.
>         <> a foaf:Person ;
> If using foaf Person, it might be better to foaf:name for the name,   
> foaf doesn't include a variant name so you might need to invent   
> that, or where possible you could parse the name into family and   
> given using the foaf properties. I know, names are a can of worms.

1) cannot parse into surname/given -- it's a one-way street on that  
account, and OL decided to take the surname, given form and put it in  
natural order. I could use foaf:name for the natural order name.

2) alternate or variant names are important, and it is also important  
what form is chosen for "name" -- I wouldn't want to minimize that. See:

> Having made Margaret a Person, it then wouldn't be right to say that  
>  she was modified! You'd have to add in some data about the   
> representation or dataset.
>         <>   
> dcterms:modified "2010-04-12 12:42:10.448987" ;
>                 dcterms:subject <> .
> That date would ideally be typed as well, so we can do date sorting:
>         <>   
> dcterms:modified "2010-04-12 12:42:10.448987"^^xsd:Date ;

I see this use of dcterms:modified a lot, and I'm pretty sure it's  
usually incorrect, modifying the entity being described rather than  
the record for the entity. However, the the rdf:about is  
"";. So now the question is:  
does that mean the data found at that address, or the bibliographic  
entity that record represents? It seems to me that nothing in RDF  
refers to the record... but using <http:// without some prefix saying  
what it is doesn't seem to fit into the RDF record. I have no  
namespace for http. Or did I misunderstand your suggestion here?

I will add the xsd:Date if the template language allows.

> It would also be good for the date of birth to be formatted and   
> typed as an xsd:Date:
>         <>   
> rdg2:dateOfBirth "1936-03-21"^^xsd:Date ;

DOB is not in xsd:Date format. It's an uncontrolled text string.  
Apparently there is some intention to parse the dates in the future so  
they can be structured, but that's not currently the case. (The "good"  
ones, like "3 January 1892" usually come from Wikipedia entries that  
have been mined for this data. There are also "not good" ones,  
including ones from library headings.)

> A further implication of making Margaret a Person is that you can't   
> use bibo:uri, bibo says that things with a uri are either a Document  
>  or a Collection, and those are not compatible with also being a   
> Person. Also, uri probably isn't the right term to describe the   
> 'aboutness' of a page. I did think foaf had topicOf, but I can't see  
>  it in the spec - but something like
>         <> foaf:topicOf   
> <>

bibo:uri was an error -- I still haven't found a source for a URL  
element, so I may just use what OL has, which is type/link which has  
subtypes "title" and "url." However, this is where we get into the  
question of: do these represent the person or the OL record? One of  
the issues is the wiki-ness of OL. The wikipedia entry is generally  
"about" the same author as the OL entry. But other URLs are open for  
editing, and could contain things like: "Buy it here!" with a LuLu  
link. So I'm tending to try to be as neutral as possible in terms of  
defining "motive" to the data. Basically, the OL record has various  
bits of data about an author. These links are on the page. I realize  
that isn't very RDF-ish, but it's what I've got to work with. OL is  
not modeled as entity/relationship, just key/value pairs.

However, I will look into Ed's suggestion of isPrimaryTopicOf and see  
if that fits. Would there be any way to use dcterms:subject here?

> Note, the uri is treated as a resource in RDF so goes in <> rather   
> than quotes.
> I'm not sure what you mean by:
>     rdg2:identifierForThePerson "/authors/OL31800A" ;
> isn't the full uri <> the   
> identifier for the person?

Yes, I caught that when I looked at the data yesterday. I sent the  
correction in, since I can't directly modify anything on the site.  
Hopefully the change will show up soon. It will show up as


> If you do want to model the OL identifier for use in non-uri based   
> systems perhaps then you would also want the scheme the identifier   
> came from, to do that the identifier might need to be modelled   
> separately:
>         <>   
> rdg2:identifierForThePerson   
> <> .
>         <> rdf:value   
> "/authors/OL31800A" ;
>                 rdg2:identifierScheme   
> <> .
> but I haven't thought that through very thoroughly.

I'm not sure why this would be useful, so I may just let it slide for now.

Thanks again, and to Ed,

> rob
> On 3 Jun 2010, at 16:54, Karen Coyle wrote:
>> There's a first draft of author RDF available. It's live. e.g.:
>> I'm looking for a generic "URL" property for web pages about the
>> author. Ideas? Also, the "link" property in OL has both the URL and
>> display text. I don't know the best way to do that in RDF, other than
>> to create an xml-ish structure.
>> I used mainly RDVOCAB properties, but could substitute bibo and/or
>> dcterms where they fit, if folks prefer. RDV tends to be more specific
>> (e.g. "identifier for the person"), but that may be too specific. I
>> don't much care, so state any preferences.
>> Thanks,
>> kc
>> --
>> Karen Coyle
>> ph: 1-510-540-7596
>> m: 1-510-435-8234
>> begin_of_the_skype_highlighting              1-510-435-8234        
>> end_of_the_skype_highlighting
>> skype: kcoylenet
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ol-tech mailing list
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to   
> Rob Styles
> tel: +44 (0)870 400 5000
> fax: +44 (0)870 400 5001
> mobile: +44 (0)7971 475 257
> msn:
> irc:,isnick
> web:
> blog:
> blog:
> blog:
> blog:
> Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> Find out more about Talis at
> shared innovation™
> Any views or personal opinions expressed within this email may not   
> be those of Talis Information Ltd or its employees. The content of   
> this email message and any files that may be attached are   
> confidential, and for the usage of the intended recipient only. If   
> you are not the intended recipient, then please return this message   
> to the sender and delete it. Any use of this e-mail by an   
> unauthorised recipient is prohibited.
> Talis Information Ltd is a member of the Talis Group of companies   
> and is registered in England No 3638278 with its registered office   
> at Knights Court, Solihull Parkway, Birmingham Business Park, B37 7YB.
> _______________________________________________
> Ol-tech mailing list
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to   

Karen Coyle
ph: 1-510-540-7596
m: 1-510-435-8234
skype: kcoylenet

Ol-tech mailing list
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, send email to

Reply via email to