Hi all,

To add to what Rogan and Terran said, I love seeing this discussion on the list just as I love seeing discussions like this in IRC. Anything that gets us all talking about ways to improve the software will lead to seeing those improvements implemented in the software. But Rogan is correct in that we need to have technical and front line staff talking with each other, which is why I'm glad to see this discussion happening on the general list and not on a list where there may be fewer developers subscribed.

Despite the understanding our developers may have about library workflows, I think there are times when assumptions are made about workflow that don't exactly match what libraries experience. There is no substitute for the feedback developers can get from those who are using the software every day and experiencing the effect of bugs or missing features.

However, I want to reiterate what Terran said about getting these issues in Launchpad. In addition, comments should be added to those bugs that link to any discussions we have on the list or in IRC. Whatever anyone may think about Launchpad, it is the way developers are able to organize their work and track what fixes / improvements need to be made. If links to these discussions aren't added to the Launchpad discussion, the developers may move in a direction that's different from what was agreed upon in a previous e-mail thread.

Also, there are many reasons why people may not want to or cannot use IRC. It certainly is much more feasible to be frequently active in IRC when you aren't working at a circulation or reference desk for large portions of the day. However, I want to stress that IRC is available for all Evergreen users, not just the technical users. The level of discussion depends on who is in IRC at a given time and what is being discussed. If somebody is looking for installation help or if developers are discussing how to get code to work in a certain way, the discussion is going to be necessarily technical. However, sometimes, developers are discussing implementation approaches, and these questions would really benefit from end user feedback.

I would have loved to have seen more end-user insight into discussions like the one here - http://irc.evergreen-ils.org/evergreen/2017-09-27#i_327096. There have also been times when we specifically ping acquisitions or cataloging folks in IRC to get answers to questions about workflows or to get details about how a feature should work.

One might argue that those types of questions should be posted to the list, but that doesn't always happen, particularly when somebody is looking for a quick answer for a project that are working on in the moment. If we have a good balance of developers and end users both on the lists and in IRC, then we can build better bridges between all of our users with the ultimate result being better software for all.

I'm not saying all this to push people into using a platform they don't feel comfortable with, but if others are interested in joining IRC once in a while, I don't want them to be scared off because they think the talk might be too technical or that its primary audience is developers.

Now that we know there is an audience who wants to discuss Web Client issues in library-speak, our consortium will share more of its discoveries and issues here.
Yes, please do! I think this will be very helpful for those who are just starting to use the web client and those who are planning to move to it very soon!


On 03/20/2018 09:16 AM, Rogan Hamby wrote:
And I'd like to caution people about creating boundaries between parts of the community.  I know that the technical and front line staff seem to often speak different languages.  I worked on the front line of libraries for two decades including as a circulation and reference manager as well as systems librarian.  I now mostly do technical work.  Many of the programmers have a very deep understanding of how libraries work.  They may not know specific workflows but some have worked with libraries their entire career and know a lot even if they've never brought the book drop in on a cold morning (I don't miss that part at all).  The developers I've gotten to know well in the community over the years love libraries and have made them their career.  Those gaps should be bridged as much as possible as it really is one community.

Rogan Hamby, MLIS

Data and Project Analyst

Equinox Open Library Initiative

phone:  1-877-OPEN-ILS (673-6457)

email:  ro...@equinoxinitiative.org

web: http://EquinoxInitiative.org

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:10 AM, Terran McCanna <tmcca...@georgialibraries.org <mailto:tmcca...@georgialibraries.org>> wrote:

    I agree that this list is a good venue to discuss problems,
    solutions, and workarounds, but want to stress that any bugs that
    are identified need to be put into launchpad with as much detail
    as possible.

    Terran McCanna
    PINES Program Manager
    Georgia Public Library Service
    1800 Century Place, Suite 150
    Atlanta, GA 30345

    404-235-7138 <tel:%28404%29%20235-7138>
    tmcca...@georgialibraries.org <mailto:tmcca...@georgialibraries.org>

    On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 8:14 AM, scott.tho...@sparkpa.org
    <mailto:scott.tho...@sparkpa.org> <scott.tho...@sparkpa.org
    <mailto:scott.tho...@sparkpa.org>> wrote:

        Hi Diane,

        I agree completely. I only use IRC to attend the Evergreen
        Oversight Board Meeting because that is the venue of choice
        for those meetings. Otherwise, I avoid it. I find it to be
        difficult to use, and it seems to lean more towards the
        programmer side of things. Launchpad, while a great tool, is
        similarly geared for the programming community.

           For library-speak, this list seems to be the best place.
        Now that we know there is an audience who wants to discuss Web
        Client issues in library-speak, our consortium will share more
        of its discoveries and issues here.


        *On Behalf Of *Diane Disbro
        *Sent:* Monday, March 19, 2018 9:43 PM
        *To:* Evergreen Discussion Group
        *Subject:* Re: [OPEN-ILS-GENERAL] discouraged

        Absolutely. If I only complained at my library and never sent
        a help desk ticket to the IT department, it would be my own
        fault if nothing got fixed.

        There are, however, two sets of people working with Evergreen.
        The programmers and the end users. And we speak two different
        languages. I have looked at the IRC and it is
        programmer-speak, not library-speak.  I would like more
        communication with end users in library-speak.

        Thanks for listening.

        Diane Disbro

        Branch Manager/Circulation Coordinator

        Union Branch

        Scenic Regional Library

        308 Hawthorne Drive

        Union, MO

        (636) 583-3224 <tel:%28636%29%20583-3224>

        On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM, Jason Stephenson
        <ja...@sigio.com <mailto:ja...@sigio.com>> wrote:

            On 03/19/2018 11:55 AM, scott.tho...@sparkpa.org
            <mailto:scott.tho...@sparkpa.org> wrote:
            > Jason,
            >    I agree Launchpad is a great tool, but I, for one,
            would like to see more discussion about bugs and Webby
            issues on this list. I often have trouble finding bugs in
            Launchpad so I feel sheepish about creating new ones there
            without first discussing it with others with more
            expertise, and this seems like a good place to do that.

            And I am not trying to stop people from discussing bugs on
            this or any
            other list. I think that's fine, too.

            It's just that Launchpad is the official record of the
            known bugs and
            feature requests, so if it is not on Launchpad, it is not
            on the RADAR.

            I hear that IRC is also a good place to discuss bugs or
            other issues. :)

            > Scott

Kathy Lussier
Project Coordinator
Massachusetts Library Network Cooperative
(508) 343-0128
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kmlussier

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