The project is "opencurrency" on OpenSim forge. It uses a LAMP server. The ASP.NET is a different implementation.
Melanie Aldon Hynes wrote: > Melanie, Fly Man, et al., > > It is good to hear that a sample currency module is available on forge > and that there are people interested in working on developing it. On > Wednesday, I sent an email, offering to help with a currency project and > asked if anyone knew where the sample currency module was. No one stepped > forward to help, or to tell me where I could find any exisiting > implementation. > > I searched around and couldn't find anything. On the OpenSim Wiki there > is the > http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Money which "is intended as an open discussion > board for ideas regarding an in-world financial system". Unfortunately, it > does not provide any links to sample implementations. > > It does seem like this may primarily be a documentation problem. After > reading your emails today and doing a bit of searching, I did find > http://forge.opensimulator.org/gf/project/currency/ In searching through the > repository, I did find Currency_DesignDocument.doc which provides > information about doing an installation of the module. (Installation > information can currently be found in section 2.2.1.1.2 ) > > It does appear as if it depends on having a ASP.NET enabled webserver, > which rules me out from being able to do testing at this time. It would be > interesting to see if a LAMP based server could be developed, or perhaps a > lighter weight service that simply uses the existing databases in a standard > OpenSim installation. > > With that, I am willing to set up an OpenSimCurrency Wiki and help > document this project. I can help with a LAMP money server that could > potentially be integrated with other interfaces. (For example, Jeroen was > asking about a WiXTD interface). > > All of that said, I am heading off on vacation for the next two weeks. I > will have spotty access here and there and can't really focus on this > substantially until August. However, I would love to get some responses now > and see what we can do to get currency much more usable for anyone that > wants it. > > Aldon > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Melanie > Sent: Saturday, July 11, 2009 7:12 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency > > > Well, I am maintaining the sample currency module on forge now and > keeping it available. > > I believe you are aware that I have a commercial RMT module, and had > it for more than a year. > > We have simply decided it can't be in core, but we are still making > it as easy to access and integrate it as we can. > We're not against people having money. If we were, we would have > remove the interfaces. > We just can't risk it in core. > > Melanie > > Fly Man wrote: >> Well, what a long discussion about something that was already decided >> long ago .... >> >> There is the OpenCurrency module for those that want to play around >> with it and there are some other ppl working on Money related things. >> >> The removal of the SampleMoney module was 1 of the things that I left >> the OpenSim development scene, as the name of the module said: "It's >> SAMPLE money" >> >> I know there 3 people working on a real currency module as we speak >> and 1 of them has succesfully integrated it into the OpenSim now. >> >> The story continues ....... >> >> 2009/7/8 Snowdrop Short <[email protected]>: >>> The core developers have for valid reasons (whatever others may think >>> and argue, they are - at least - subjectively valid) for not including a >>> money module. >>> >>> I think it would be best to let this debate rest. I believe continuing >>> to argue for a money module to be part of the core, is showing >>> ingratitude to the core developers who has put in such a great effort on >>> the project and completely needless. >>> >>> OpenSim is licensed via BSD, one of the most liberate licenses currently >>> in common use, nothing prevents a money module from being implemented, >>> either in close or open source. Furthermore I am convinced that the core >>> will accept patches for hooks, if the current hooks prove in-adequate. >>> (This has been done for other out-of-core modules). >>> >>> Even if the core team should decide a money module was within the scope >>> of the project, it would still require volunteers to implement the >>> module, so I fail to see the real difference between an out-of-core >>> module for handling money and an in-core one. >>> >>> If all the passion thrown into this debate was directed towards creating >>> an out-of-core module, it would spring into existence quite rapidly. >>> >>> /Snowcrash >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 2009-07-08 at 17:17 +0200, Colin B. Withers wrote: >>>> Hi Neb, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> No, I do get the point, but I am simply not convinced of the >>>> arguments. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Opensim is unsafe, understandably so. Right now, it is in the alpha >>>> stage, but that is no reason not to pursue code from alpha, through >>>> beta, and onto release. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Let me put it this way, quite clearly.. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If I, or anyone else, wanted to to use Opensim as a platform for a >>>> virtual world, (not during alpha, or beta, but after it is released) >>>> and that virtual would was to have commerce, ala SL, and due to the >>>> Opensim policy of no currency module in core I went to a third party >>>> and procured a currency module, I would have a situation where the two >>>> most critical elements of a commerce system, ie: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> a) The asset server (produced by the core developers of opensim), and >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> b) A currency module (produced by VW$$$.inc) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> are sourced from different suppliers. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Now, please explain to me the difference between: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> i) People losing money due to a malfunction in the currency module, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ii) People losing assets (that have a monetary value, having been >>>> bought with real $$$ through the currency module) due to an asset >>>> server malfunction? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It seems to me that there is just as much, or even more risk, of >>>> people losing valuable assets from the asset server, than from the >>>> currency module. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is it then the devs' position that the asset server is (or eventually >>>> will be) immune from the risk of loss of assets? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I do not believe that position could ever be held. Even after so much >>>> development work, both on the code and the backbone, SL still loses >>>> its residents' assets (the huge losses sustained by residents just 2 >>>> or 3 weeks ago is testament to that). >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Is there any real difference between: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 1. Using US$10 to buy inworld currency, that does not show up then on >>>> my balance, >>>> >>>> 2. Getting the inworld currency, but later due to a glitch, losing US >>>> $10's worth of inworld currency >>>> >>>> 3. Buying an object inworld that costs the inworld currency equivalent >>>> to US$10, and the object disappearing from my inventory? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> To my mind, in all three cases, I am US$10 down. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I just don't see how BOTH these statements can be true at the same >>>> time: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Currency module = big risk >>>> >>>> Asset server = no risk >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> And I have never argued that the devs should be responsible for risk >>>> (it is the devs themselves that are arguing that they have that risk, >>>> and hence the need to divest themselves of it). My position is that >>>> all risk is on the grid owner, and that risk can be mitigated (as SL >>>> does) by a carefully worded TOS. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rock >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Nebadon >>>> Izumi >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 4:39 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rock, >>>> >>>> I do beleive your missing the point entirely, the reason we do not >>>> wish to implement any money systems at this time, is exactly for that >>>> reason, OpenSImulator is not a safe place to be slinging money around, >>>> the asset server is not secure, nothing about opensimulator is secure, >>>> yet you people are all arguing that other people take on the risk so >>>> that you can have an economic system, It is this exact argument you >>>> are making that has prompted the development team to flat out say no >>>> to everyone, you can not expect others to take on risk so you can make >>>> a living, if you want this functionality so badly, you should A, >>>> develop the system yourself like we said, or B hire a professional who >>>> understands security to evalute the risk assessment of this software >>>> and do the legal research and you take on the risk and provide the >>>> code to everyone if you all think it is so safe and ok to do things >>>> that lawyers and security experts say we should not be doing. You >>>> guys can all argue to you are blue in the face, it wont change the >>>> fact that this is a monumentally horrible idea right now, we souldnt >>>> even be discussing this as an option until well after opensimulator >>>> has been proven to be a safe environment, which i will once again >>>> repeat, it currently is not!!! >>>> >>>> Neb >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Colin B. Withers >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I fully understand that argument Stefan (although I do not agree with >>>> it). What I do not understand is how a currency module can be >>>> considered risky, but the entire asset server (holding everything that >>>> people have bought with an external currency module) is not considered >>>> even more of a risk. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rock >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Stefan >>>> Andersson >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:54 AM >>>> >>>> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rock, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> An implementation of a functional monetary system has been declared as >>>> out of scope for OpenSim. It is something that has to go into the >>>> custom implementation/third party provider layer. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> There is a live and ongoing discussion as of where to draw the line >>>> for what goes into the core, and what should be left to external >>>> module creators and custom implementation. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> It is within scope of OpenSim to provide hooks so that such a module, >>>> tailored for the specific use case, be created. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As a project we need to draw a scope line somewhere, and often it’s a >>>> case of weighting several variables against each other. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In this case, it’s been a long standing stance that implementation of >>>> a monetary system is outside of the scope of the OpenSim core >>>> distribution. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> We did provide the SampleMoneyModule, but the problem was that people >>>> was using this unsafe and immature example code directly in live and >>>> production environments. Though we could swear ourselves free from >>>> that with a “suit yourself, it was wholly at your own risk”, it’s not >>>> only a legal case, but also a case of us not wanting to expose our >>>> users to unsafe and immature code that could cause them direct >>>> economic damage. We generally don’t want to take decisions for our >>>> users, but this one would be considered a real-world risk policy >>>> decision. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I believe that the very absence of a money implementation outside of >>>> core would be an indication that it’s right not having one inside; if >>>> there is no external module being maintained and used, it either means >>>> nobody see value enough to work on it, or that any implementation is >>>> too use case specific for there to be any value for the general >>>> public. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At any rate, it is my opinion that the whole economy domain needs a >>>> lot more work and reach a much higher level of maturity before >>>> anything could be considered for inclusion into the core distribution. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> /Stefan >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Colin B. >>>> Withers >>>> Sent: den 7 juli 2009 15:27 >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> If ReactionGrid uses no currency, and has no plans to ever have it, >>>> and does not wish to get involded in virtual commerce, using either >>>> core solutions or external solutions, then indeed it is a 3D chatroom. >>>> 3D chatrooms are well suited to Educational purposes, and indeed my >>>> own Opensim grid has been used by a US college for educational >>>> purposes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> However, for a virtual space to take on the mantle of a virtual world, >>>> then commerce is an essential element, and currency is essential to >>>> that. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I think the argument that there is a risk in providing a currency >>>> module in core, from those who might complain "your code ate my money" >>>> is a specious argument. This charge could be levelled whenever opensim >>>> is used as a platform for a virtual world providing virtual real >>>> estate, for real world money (whether a currency module is >>>> implemented in core or external) as if the grid goes down due to >>>> software bugs the grid owner stands to lose rental income, or be >>>> liable for the claims of others. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> This can all be mitigated against (in territotories that allow it) by >>>> use of a carefully worded TOS. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Should the development of opensim be halted because someone might >>>> claim "your software crashed my hard-drive, and I have lost US$$$" or >>>> "the bugs in your software have contributed to me losing several >>>> tenants this week, losing US$$$ in the process"? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The software is used 'as is', with no claims as fitness for any >>>> particular purpose, and this would apply to any core currency module. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Rock >>>> >>>> PS Another grid, that the owner ploughed 1000s of dollars into, has >>>> collapsed recently, due to lack of a viable currency solution. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris Hart >>>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 3:50 PM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Couldn't disagree more - ReactionGrid has no inworld currency and no >>>> plans to ever have it. Encouraging creativity, sharing, and >>>> collaborative learning has proved more than worthwhile to us. And >>>> quite frankly, the legal and tax issues around running a currency >>>> system should require dedicated qualified experts to manage correctly. >>>> You can do a huge amount without play money inworld - and if you want >>>> to pay someone money for a product, there are many solutions out there >>>> that are properly regulated by financial services authorities. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Money should be something you can add in yourselves if you want (hence >>>> I believe it's on Forge these days), but I completely understand core >>>> developer reluctance to have code in trunk that could potentially come >>>> back to haunt with "your code ate my money" complaints. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Chris >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Colin B. Withers >>>> >>>> >>>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:30 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Has this always been the case? Why was SampleMoney and OpenCurrency >>>> removed? >>>> >>>> Without currency opensim regions and grids devolve into nothing more >>>> than 3D chatrooms. >>>> >>>> Rock >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: [email protected] >>>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Melanie >>>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:47 AM >>>> To: [email protected] >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >>>> >>>> OpenSim and the OpenSim project don't provide a grid currency >>>> implementation. >>>> >>>> Melanie >>>> >>>> Melvin Carvalho wrote: >>>> > Will currencies be distributed accross grids? >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Jason Fisher<[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Hi, as of revision 9000 or so, SAMPLEMONEY was removed, meaning my >>>> >> grid no longer has currency based of wiredux. I also saw >>>> OPENCURRENCY >>>> >> has been removed. I really want currncy on my grid, and need help. >>>> >> Anyone know something I can use on a later revision? THANKS >>>> >> [email protected] >>>> >> >>>> >> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> >> [email protected] >>>> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> >>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: >>>> 07/05/09 17:54:00 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > _______________________________________________ Opensim-dev mailing list [email protected] https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
