Very well put, Neb. Some, it seems, argue simply for the sake of argument and the perception that open-source equates "free labor."
I myself have had disagreements with certain other open-source solutions and I choose to take advantage of my disagreeable nature and learned enough C# to implement the changes I desired that no one else would. In the end I gained a great tool and accomplished a customized application to suit my particular needs at the time. - Len On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Nebadon Izumi <[email protected]> wrote: > Rock, > > I do beleive your missing the point entirely, the reason we do not wish to > implement any money systems at this time, is exactly for that reason, > OpenSImulator is not a safe place to be slinging money around, the asset > server is not secure, nothing about opensimulator is secure, yet you people > are all arguing that other people take on the risk so that you can have an > economic system, It is this exact argument you are making that has prompted > the development team to flat out say no to everyone, you can not expect > others to take on risk so you can make a living, if you want this > functionality so badly, you should A, develop the system yourself like we > said, or B hire a professional who understands security to evalute the risk > assessment of this software and do the legal research and you take on the > risk and provide the code to everyone if you all think it is so safe and ok > to do things that lawyers and security experts say we should not be doing. > You guys can all argue to you are blue in the face, it wont change the fact > that this is a monumentally horrible idea right now, we souldnt even be > discussing this as an option until well after opensimulator has been proven > to be a safe environment, which i will once again repeat, it currently is > not!!! > > Neb > > > On Wed, Jul 8, 2009 at 1:06 AM, Colin B. Withers < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> I fully understand that argument Stefan (although I do not agree with >> it). What I do not understand is how a currency module can be considered >> risky, but the entire asset server (holding everything that people have >> bought with an external currency module) is not considered even more of a >> risk. >> >> >> >> Rock >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Stefan Andersson >> *Sent:* Wednesday, July 08, 2009 7:54 AM >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >> >> >> >> Rock, >> >> >> >> An implementation of a functional monetary system has been declared as out >> of scope for OpenSim. It is something that has to go into the custom >> implementation/third party provider layer. >> >> >> >> There is a live and ongoing discussion as of where to draw the line for >> what goes into the core, and what should be left to external module creators >> and custom implementation. >> >> >> >> It is within scope of OpenSim to provide hooks so that such a module, >> tailored for the specific use case, be created. >> >> >> >> As a project we need to draw a scope line somewhere, and often it’s a case >> of weighting several variables against each other. >> >> >> >> In this case, it’s been a long standing stance that implementation of a >> monetary system is outside of the scope of the OpenSim core distribution. >> >> >> >> We did provide the SampleMoneyModule, but the problem was that people was >> using this unsafe and immature example code directly in live and production >> environments. Though we could swear ourselves free from that with a “suit >> yourself, it was wholly at your own risk”, it’s not only a legal case, but >> also a case of us not wanting to expose our users to unsafe and immature >> code that could cause them direct economic damage. We generally don’t want >> to take decisions for our users, but this one would be considered a >> real-world risk policy decision. >> >> >> >> I believe that the very absence of a money implementation outside of core >> would be an indication that it’s right not having one inside; if there is no >> external module being maintained and used, it either means nobody see value >> enough to work on it, or that any implementation is too use case specific >> for there to be any value for the general public. >> >> >> >> At any rate, it is my opinion that the whole economy domain needs a lot >> more work and reach a much higher level of maturity before anything could be >> considered for inclusion into the core distribution. >> >> >> >> /Stefan >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Colin B. Withers >> *Sent:* den 7 juli 2009 15:27 >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >> >> >> >> If ReactionGrid uses no currency, and has no plans to ever have it, and >> does not wish to get involded in virtual commerce, using either core >> solutions or external solutions, then indeed it is a 3D chatroom. 3D >> chatrooms are well suited to Educational purposes, and indeed my own Opensim >> grid has been used by a US college for educational purposes. >> >> >> >> However, for a virtual space to take on the mantle of a virtual world, >> then commerce is an essential element, and currency is essential to that. >> >> >> >> I think the argument that there is a risk in providing a currency module >> in core, from those who might complain "your code ate my money" is a >> specious argument. This charge could be levelled whenever opensim is used as >> a platform for a virtual world providing virtual real estate, for real world >> money (whether a currency module is implemented in core or external) as if >> the grid goes down due to software bugs the grid owner stands to lose rental >> income, or be liable for the claims of others. >> >> >> >> This can all be mitigated against (in territotories that allow it) by use >> of a carefully worded TOS. >> >> >> >> Should the development of opensim be halted because someone might claim >> "your software crashed my hard-drive, and I have lost US$$$" or "the bugs in >> your software have contributed to me losing several tenants this week, >> losing US$$$ in the process"? >> >> >> >> The software is used 'as is', with no claims as fitness for any particular >> purpose, and this would apply to any core currency module. >> >> >> >> Rock >> >> PS Another grid, that the owner ploughed 1000s of dollars into, has >> collapsed recently, due to lack of a viable currency solution. >> >> >> >> *From:* [email protected] [mailto: >> [email protected]] *On Behalf Of *Chris Hart >> *Sent:* Monday, July 06, 2009 3:50 PM >> *To:* [email protected] >> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >> >> >> >> Couldn't disagree more - ReactionGrid has no inworld currency and no plans >> to ever have it. Encouraging creativity, sharing, and collaborative learning >> has proved more than worthwhile to us. And quite frankly, the legal and tax >> issues around running a currency system should require dedicated qualified >> experts to manage correctly. You can do a huge amount without play money >> inworld - and if you want to pay someone money for a product, there are many >> solutions out there that are properly regulated by financial services >> authorities. >> >> >> >> Money should be something you can add in yourselves if you want (hence I >> believe it's on Forge these days), but I completely understand core >> developer reluctance to have code in trunk that could potentially come back >> to haunt with "your code ate my money" complaints. >> >> >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> *From:* Colin B. Withers <[email protected]> >> >> *Sent:* Monday, July 06, 2009 1:30 PM >> >> *To:* [email protected] >> >> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >> >> >> >> Has this always been the case? Why was SampleMoney and OpenCurrency >> removed? >> >> Without currency opensim regions and grids devolve into nothing more than >> 3D chatrooms. >> >> Rock >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [ >> mailto:[email protected]<[email protected]>] >> On Behalf Of Melanie >> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 11:47 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Currency >> >> OpenSim and the OpenSim project don't provide a grid currency >> implementation. >> >> Melanie >> >> Melvin Carvalho wrote: >> > Will currencies be distributed accross grids? >> > >> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 6:43 AM, Jason Fisher<[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi, as of revision 9000 or so, SAMPLEMONEY was removed, meaning my >> >> grid no longer has currency based of wiredux. I also saw OPENCURRENCY >> >> has been removed. I really want currncy on my grid, and need help. >> >> Anyone know something I can use on a later revision? THANKS >> >> [email protected] >> >> >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Opensim-dev mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.375 / Virus Database: 270.12.94/2208 - Release Date: 07/05/09 >> 17:54:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> > > > -- > Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > >
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