Yeah I agree with Nicolas concern about the original rebellious spirit of ops4j. I also like the highlight that ops4j is not just about osgi (that’s the pax prefix in all those projects btw). The key question is if GitHub just removed the need for such a place? If not, what should ops4j be? Coming back to options 1 to 3 of my original mail: just pay for the current expense (domain) or additionally refresh it with a little bit of extra effort (website/landing page, contribution guide) or (option 3) make it a legal entity (reasoning to be discussed).
Toni Menzel | rebaze.com ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Niclas Hedhman <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 11:30:59 AM To: OPS4J <[email protected]> Subject: Re: ops4j domain names FTR; Grzegorz is basically (re-)expressing the the original intent of OPS4J, i.e. no barriers, welcoming and make it to what we will/want. In the beginning, the founders had to run all services and we took time to put up the stuff we needed. The services are now 3rd party, and although that has been very positive, it has also slowly brewed a "it is what it is" rather than "what I/we want", and less engagement from community members. Going to Apache would also be a step "back", since OPS4J was a little bit protest against the "committer barriers" that is/was present in many projects. An over-protective mentality, if you like and OPS4J set out to prove that those barriers were not needed on the grounds that they were said to exist. Also to note; OPS4J didn't set out to be OSGi-centric. It was just that OSGi needed a somewhat more neutral ground than the original "homes", i.e. KF, Felix and Equinox communities, because interoperability back then was quite horrendous. Niclas On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 6:18 PM Grzegorz Grzybek <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hello I really don't feel competent enough to discuss such organization changes. For me having Pax-Web (and Pax-Logging and others) outside of ASF gives me easier release process. But I confess that I don't think much about how Sonatype's OPS4J repos are managed, by whom and using what rules. Felix indeed has log and http implementations, so adding pax-logging and pax-web to Karaf (even if natural) would be kind of strange at ASF. I'd also never consider "merging" felix.log and felix.http with pax-logging and pax-web respectively, because the latter have some specific features many people got used to (e.g., Undertow backend) What I miss is non existing CI for Pax projects. There was http://ci.ops4j.org/jenkins/ at some point, but it's no longer available. regards Grzegorz Grzybek czw., 20 lut 2020 o 08:06 Jean-Baptiste Onofré <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> napisał(a): That's true, but I think that's also a drawback. The leak of governance and the fact we don't have any staging on releases could be seen as an issue. That's why it could be interesting to have this under the "Karaf Umbrella". Regards JB On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 7:58 AM 'Christoph Läubrich' via OPS4J <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I always enjoyed the ease of contribution via github with minimal effort. While for apache-projects has always felt like a mess because of different hurdles. So I would defiantly vote for staying with github, dropping JIRA in favour of github issues (they improved the issue/project handling a lot) to centralize development to one place. Github even offers building "Actions" now so maybe this is also an alternative for custom build-server. Am 20.02.20 um 07:17 schrieb Jean-Baptiste Onofré: > Hi, > > If option 4 is interesting, we have to remember: > > 1. First, in which Apache umbrella project. I don't think Felix is a > good match as we might have some overlap with existing projects (felix > http, ...). Maybe Karaf ? > 2. We need to transfer IP and "PMC" set and ask in the Apache project > community with a formal vote. > 3. We will have to follow Apache process, especially for releases > (meaning at least 3 days vote, 3 binding votes, etc), extending Apache > pom, etc. > > So, IMHO, we have really two options: > > 1. We keep OPS4J community, do a cleanup (announcing non active projects) > 2. We move active Pax projects to Apache (obviously my preference would > be Karaf). > > Thoughts ? > > Regards > JB > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 1:01 PM Toni Menzel > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: > > *TL/TR:* > I'd be also happy to pay for ops4j.org<http://ops4j.org> > <http://ops4j.org> (the one > that is actively used atm). > > *Long version:* > Since this is coming up now, there is a general question were to go > with OPS4J in general. > > It predated github and probably was back then the easiest way to get > hands dirty in a non-trivial java based OSS community where trust > was default. Think about it, back then everyone could get write > access to the subversion repo and start hacking on new or existing > projects. Including admin access to jira and whatever else was > existing back then. Pax URL, Pax Runner, Pax Exam, Pax Construct > etc. all got initiated by individuals without asking for permission. > I mean.. thats Names like Pax Tinybundles got to life.. but oh well. > > Now, why am I writing this: there is - at least for pax url, web and > exam - a huge user base that seems to be quite healthy. Even if > there is just that "ops4j" name of the github organization now, no > website etc. > > So, question: what are the options? Let me just drop them here that > come to my mind (ordered from easy-as-py to more complicated options): > > * keep things as is, find individual sponsors like I do with the > Build Server (who uses that still by the way??), and JB or me > (this means I'd be also fine to pay for the org domain that is > in active use,too btw). It would be good to have two different > companies or legal entities backing this anyway. > * Modernize OPS4J a bit. Get it a landing page at least and a > clear who is behind all this, who pays etc. Maybe look at Github > Sponsoring to spread costs across user base - avoid single > entity control. > * Maybe look into making it a proper foundation or at least an > entity that makes the work here eligible for future donations. I > am not sure of this is worth it. But i feel Open Source != Open > Governance. > * Retire non active projects and donate active projects to apache. > Probably difficult because of Intellectual Property) > > wdyt? > Toni > > > *Toni Menzel | rebaze.com<http://rebaze.com> <https://www.rebaze.com> | > growing > developer culture > > * > > > On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:37 PM Jean-Baptiste Onofré > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> > wrote: > > Hi Niclas > > First of all, thanks a lot for all what you did (and still doing > 😀). > > I’m ready to take the hand for the domain and finance them. > > Thoughts ? > > Regards > JB > > Le mer. 19 févr. 2020 à 12:13, Niclas Hedhman > <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> a écrit : > > Everyone, > In a few months time (June), the OPS4J domain names are up > for renewal. And I have been paying for those for 15 years > now, and since I no longer participate in OPS4J I would like > to transfer the domain names. But where to?? > > Ideally a foundation that would be Ok to take it over, > otherwise to a trusted community member. > > Ideas are welcome, and should be discussed. I have no > opinion and will simply follow what you all can agree on. > > ops4j.org<http://ops4j.org> <http://ops4j.org> > ops4j.net<http://ops4j.net> <http://ops4j.net> > ops4j.com<http://ops4j.com> <http://ops4j.com> > > > Cheers > Niclas > > -- > -- > ------------------ > OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "OPS4J" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails > from it, send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]>>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CADmm%2BKf7a0rzdkro7v-rxBV1p1-KkSMTE_BQT2HhUZyOUM9jyA%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CADmm%2BKf7a0rzdkro7v-rxBV1p1-KkSMTE_BQT2HhUZyOUM9jyA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > -- > ------------------ > OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the > Google Groups "OPS4J" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from > it, send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]>>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAB8EV3QGMMWvzzCck96CxemuYgSiYWNcs%2BOGPXmtaKTthoJvrw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAB8EV3QGMMWvzzCck96CxemuYgSiYWNcs%2BOGPXmtaKTthoJvrw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > -- > ------------------ > OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "OPS4J" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > send an email to > [email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]> > > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]>>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAEjgzHT%2BYNAL3CA1dsqGpevhpoYsU9OYVUBi%3Df%2BMT9_u5ta3fw%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAEjgzHT%2BYNAL3CA1dsqGpevhpoYsU9OYVUBi%3Df%2BMT9_u5ta3fw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > -- > -- > ------------------ > OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - > [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> > > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "OPS4J" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an email to > [email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]> > <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:ops4j%[email protected]>>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAB8EV3Tgr%2Bx9Oe4RLq4%3DV0W4_nOv8XabaqrePa08i_i-PZcT7g%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/ops4j/CAB8EV3Tgr%2Bx9Oe4RLq4%3DV0W4_nOv8XabaqrePa08i_i-PZcT7g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- -- ------------------ OPS4J - http://www.ops4j.org - [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "OPS4J" group. 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