On Mar 20, 2011, at 8:37 AM, Bob W wrote: >> >> Why is it that whenever someone raises this point, they always fail >> to recognize that the people who are subjected to waterboarding also >> are >> subjected to it in training. They know how it works. It's just that >> it's unpleasant enough to remain effective. >> > > the evidence suggests that it's not effective. But that's not what matters, > what matters is the moral issue. Even if it was 100% effective it would > still be wrong and we should not do it. > >> That said, I'd gladly submit myself to waterboarding if you'll allow me >> to deploy any of the tactics typically used by the people being >> subjected to it in return. >> > > that's a damn silly thing to say, the sort of thing you hear in playgrounds. > We're supposed to be different from those people. Use of their tactics makes > us indistinguishable and means we have lost the fight to defend and promote > our values. >
Flying an airplane full of civilians into a building is torture. Beheading a journalist on videotape so his family can see him die is torture. Waterboarding is just damn unpleasant. Paul > B > > >> -- Walt >> >> On 3/20/2011 5:10 AM, Bob W wrote: >>> There's an enormous difference between undergoing something >> voluntarily for >>> training, carried out by people on your own side, in conditions where >> you >>> are in control, where you know the outcome and you know when it will >> end, >>> and being subjected to the same thing by your enemies while you're >> kept in >>> solitary confinement with no access to anyone else, not knowing where >> you >>> are, against your will, time after time for months and years, not >> knowing >>> when it will be over, but knowing that it's going to happen again and >> again >>> and again, and listening for the steps in the corridor that tell you >> they're >>> coming back. >> >> >> -- >> PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List >> PDML@pdml.net >> http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net >> to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and >> follow the directions. > > > -- > PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List > PDML@pdml.net > http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net > to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow > the directions. -- PDML Pentax-Discuss Mail List PDML@pdml.net http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net to UNSUBSCRIBE from the PDML, please visit the link directly above and follow the directions.
