The sort of thinking I am talking about is conscious and not in any way an effort to replicate explicit notions of CSP. When this form of thinking is engaged in by me it is as I describe it. The first stage is an effort to create a description of what might be called a sign, a preverbal feeling. So it differs from a first which is only that, The second is an index of values that confronts whatever the sign may be. The third is an aesthetic or action stage in which the goal is to achieve some relationship to the ideals of truth and beauty. This general description is accurate but hardly prescriptive. There are times for example when the time I have given myself to do this is able to encompass only the describing of a sign.
*@stephencrose <https://twitter.com/stephencrose>* On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 3:59 PM, Edwina Taborsky <tabor...@primus.ca> wrote: > Stephen- I think John and you are talking about different things and > since you don't seem to use the Peircean analytic frame - the result is > confusing. Yes - we do have direct experience, as both Firstness and > Secondness - but Firstness is without analytic awareness: a pure > feeling...which we don't even yet know what it is a feeling OF. To move > into defining that feeling as 'wow, it's hot'...requires a second step of > differentiation of the Self from this other source. Secondness is that > direct physical contact but - we do react to it - i.e., to withdraw from > the heat. > > No, I don't think a sign always goes through these three stages that you > outline. ...vagueness to indexical to an expression..Certainly some > semiosic expreiences are just like that but that's not always the case for > a sign. > > Edwina > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Stephen C. Rose <stever...@gmail.com> > *To:* John Collier <colli...@ukzn.ac.za> > *Cc:* Peirce List <Peirce-L@list.iupui.edu> > *Sent:* Sunday, August 03, 2014 2:30 PM > *Subject:* Re: [PEIRCE-L] [biosemiotics:6231] Re: biosemiotics is the > basis for > > Seems to me that we do have direct experience no matter how vague it may > seem. Certainly something precedes words. Words do not emerge of their own > accord. I associate a triad with three stages and see the sign as what > exists at every stage but which moves from vagueness (penumbra) through > some sort of index to some form of expression or action. I certainly made > no assumptions of the sort you note. I find that reaction surprising. Sorry! > > *@stephencrose <https://twitter.com/stephencrose>* > > > On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 2:09 PM, John Collier <colli...@ukzn.ac.za> wrote: > >> At 08:00 PM 2014-08-03, Stephen C. Rose wrote: >> >>> The notion of how signs get to their editing is clearly ultimately a >>> matter of theory. But the theory can stipulate that there is the penumbra >>> which I infer from direct experience. >>> >> >> I don't think you entitled to do this. Do you really think I would be so >> stupid as to ignore this possibility? I am arguing that what you experience >> is already interpreted, and hence not a pure first. >> >> Indeed, merely because we use words and theories, of necessity, does not >>> mean that they do not correctly infer things that are real, including >>> things to which we have given names. For example the word tolerance refers >>> to something which I believe is real, along with other values, And by real >>> I mean they are universal and universally applicable. Now that is clearly >>> all theoretical, but it makes all the difference if what you are theorizing >>> is something you take to be fundamental to reality. >>> >> >> Yes, but this is rather beside the point. I am not arguing that pure >> firsts are not real; I am arguing that they are not what we experience >> directly. >> >> John >> >> ---------- >> Professor John Collier >> colli...@ukzn.ac.za >> Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South >> Africa >> T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031 >> Http://web.ncf.ca/collier >> >> >> >> ----------------------------- >> PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON >> PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to >> peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L >> but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the >> BODY of the message. More at >> http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm . >> >> >> >> >> >> > ------------------------------ > > > ----------------------------- > PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Reply All" to REPLY ON > PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to > peirce-L@list.iupui.edu . To UNSUBSCRIBE, send a message not to PEIRCE-L > but to l...@list.iupui.edu with the line "UNSubscribe PEIRCE-L" in the > BODY of the message. More at http://www.cspeirce.com/peirce-l/peirce-l.htm > . > > > > >
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