Jon ~
I had to read twice to identify the change you made to your earlier comment
("The idea does not bear examination"). Thank you for adding the patina of a
future unspecified test that my as-yet undeveloped theory could not "survive"
if I were foolish enough to continue working on it. That is more
academic-sounding.
Regards,
Tom Wyrick
> On Jul 18, 2015, at 12:35 PM, Jon Awbrey <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Tom,
> By "bear" I meant "bear up under", which is to say "survive", it being a
> thesis already examined at length.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon
>
>
>
>
> http://inquiryintoinquiry.com
>
>> On Jul 18, 2015, at 1:09 PM, Ozzie <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Jon, List ~
>> My previous post on this subject was comprised of survey data and a few
>> summary comments that could be verified by clicking a link.
>>
>> The response: "The idea does not bear examination."
>>
>> It is common that smart, busy people do not have time to ponder "trivial"
>> issues that other (less exceptional) people DO have time to examine. I'm in
>> that latter group.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tom Wyrick
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 18, 2015, at 7:20 AM, Jon Awbrey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom, List,
>>>
>>> A person is free to go on believing that we begin our lives in a state of
>>> oceanic confluence
>>> with our existential, biological, and social matrices but the idea does not
>>> bear examination.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jon
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jon, List -
>>
>>> "I'll just leave my sample statistical for what it tells of themes
>>> universal."
>>
>> Since you're on vacation, I looked up some figures on low-weight births.
>> Among non-Hispanic White women in the USA, the low-weight birth rate is
>> about 7.2%, or 1-in-14 births. The rate is lower than the overall average
>> among women age 25-35, and is highest among women over 40 years and for
>> women giving birth to multiple children -- a number on the upswing. The
>> latter two causes appear to be physiological/medical, and unrelated to
>> neglect of the child's welfare. So the rate of pre-birth "neglect" among
>> this main cohort of child-bearers must be below 1-in-20. The trend is
>> gradually trending higher over time. Very-low weight births among
>> non-Hispanic White women is 1.2%.
>> http://mchb.hrsa.gov/chusa08/hstat/hsi/pages/203vlbw.html
>>
>> Data on breast feeding show that about 75% of all mothers breast feed their
>> children some of the time, and 12.5% (1/8) breast feed exclusively during
>> the first 6 months. Breast feeding is positively related to household
>> income, ranging from about 10.6% at the bottom end of the income scale to
>> 14.7% at the top. (This effect may reflect differences in leisure time,
>> education and other things.)
>>
>> I'm not suggesting these data answer any deeper questions. I only looked
>> them up to see how prevalent the problem of "neglect" might be during the
>> pre-birth (gestation) period.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tom Wyrick
>>
>>
>>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 3:40 PM, Jon Awbrey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Tom, List,
>>>
>>> Vacating as I am (on our annual dramatic immersion) and having no new
>>> thoughts for the nonce on the hoary old mater of nature v. nurser I would
>>> be reduced to recycling links to previous adumbrations — were it not that
>>> I've been chastened from that — so I'll just leave my sample statistical
>>> for what it tells of themes universal.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> http://inquiryintoinquiry.com
>>>
>>>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 3:43 PM, Ozzie <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Jon -
>>>> I believe mothers who deny basic care to their fetuses and babies are a
>>>> minority, and that when the neglected/abandoned children get older they
>>>> are often emotionally disturbed and have an impaired ability to think
>>>> objectively.
>>>>
>>>> That does not seem to be the right starting point for a discussion of
>>>> instinct & emotion in the logical process. If we want to discuss human
>>>> instinct, we should focus on a representative human instead of an abnormal
>>>> one. (The logic of emotionally damaged people is more psychology than
>>>> philosophy.)
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Tom Wyrick
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 2:08 PM, Jon Awbrey <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom, List,
>>>>>
>>>>> Having done statistical consulting for nurse researchers I can tell you
>>>>> that "low birth-weight babies" and "mother-infant communication" are two
>>>>> major areas of research and practice. In neither case is perinatal life
>>>>> quite so halcyon as we'd like to imagine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jon
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 7/17/2015 11:53 AM, Ozzie wrote:
>>>>>> Ben, list -
>>>>>> Thanks for your interesting comments. I will spend more time thinking
>>>>>> about them later today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Let me briefly address one sentence from your comments: "I'd say that
>>>>>> instincts can also be triggered _inside_ the body, e.g., by prolonged
>>>>>> emptiness of the stomach."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to the common definition (interpretant) instincts are
>>>>>> triggered by things in the external world. Before birth, food is
>>>>>> ALWAYS available to the baby. After birth, and assuming an attentive
>>>>>> mother (caregiver), food continues to be available without any effort or
>>>>>> reciprocation on the baby's behalf. This goes on daily for many years,
>>>>>> so not feeling hunger pains becomes the norm, the expectation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Against that backdrop, when food is withheld (by the external
>>>>>> environment), one's sensation of hunger (-) is a disturbance to the
>>>>>> status quo (0), which summons the instinct to do something (+) to make
>>>>>> that "pain" go away. When something from the environment is eaten (+),
>>>>>> the sensation (-) disappears (0).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It is in this sense hunger pains and their elimination are related to
>>>>>> (triggered by) the individual's contact with the external world. If the
>>>>>> individual eats a full meal AND THEN feels hungry, I agree that
>>>>>> particular sensation has an *internal trigger (likely emotions or a
>>>>>> physical disability).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Tom Wyrick
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jul 17, 2015, at 8:04 AM, Benjamin Udell <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regarding some of your comments, I'd say that instincts can also be
>>>>>>> triggered _inside_ the body, e.g., by prolonged emptiness of the
>>>>>>> stomach.
>>
>>>>>>
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