Clark- yes, I think that the disagreements in interpretation of Peirce go
beyond semantics. The way I see it, there are some who view the Peircean
framework in a linear, mechanical reductionist sense; i.e., 'this ..followed by
..this..followed by..this..and...
That's where you get the focus on the representamen alone being called 'the
sign' - and you get the loss of the triadic frame which, in my view, is one of
the two basic formats of the Peircean framework. [The other is the three
categories].
Those people who use Peirce in the sciences, i.e., within the biological and
physico-chemical realms, reject linear mechanical reductionism - but - such a
view continues to hold on in the literary and philosophical realms.
Since I focus on the triad as THE basic semiosic unit, which I call the Sign
[capital S], then, for me, I see the representamen as mediation - and - as
noted in the ten classes of such triads, it can function in any one of the
three categories.
I also think that it is 'limiting' if we confine Mind to human thinking, for,
as Peirce notes, it operates in 'the work of bees and of crystals'. This means
- since these bees, their work and those crystals are all semiosic Signs, which
is to say, they are all triadic interactions...in dynamic interaction with
other bees and natural matter...that Mind is taking place in these
interactions.
What is thought? What is Mind? Certainly, it is not consciousness. Again, my
reading of Peirce, with that focus on the irreducible necessity of the triad
and the three categories, is that Mind/Thought must operate within the full
triad and has the option of all three categories in this operation. Mind cannot
exist without that full triad - and the fact that its actions can make use of
all categories, in their 'genuine and degenerate modes' gives Mind the adaptive
and innovative power that it has.
But - to reduce Mind to only ONE part of the triad, and only one category, is,
to my view, a misreading of Peirce. But - that's my view.
Edwina
----- Original Message -----
From: Clark Goble
To: Peirce-L
Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2016 12:30 PM
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Peirce's Theory of Thinking
While I couldn’t find the Peirce quote I was searching for I did find this
from Joe Ransdell:
Qualities are not what philosophers sometimes call "the given" to which
"interpretation" is somehow to be added to form cognitive units; for qualities
are not objects of predication but rather that which is (monadically)
predicated of objects, though not considered AS predicated since that would
involve conceptual recourse to the other categories. [Note: this is treacherous
territory: I am inclined at present to say, though, that quality is, first of
all, predicable content not regarded as predicated though regardable in that
way as well, and, second, when so regarded (via hypostatic abstraction) they
are regarded as properties, in which case certain further things can be said of
them considered as such. I do not think this means that he simply uses the term
"quality" sloppily or even ambiguously. I think he regards it as legitimate to
speak of quality sometimes as a matter of firstness and sometimes as a matter
of thirdness depending on which way of regarding it is intended, as should be
clear enough from the context if one is aware of the two different kinds of
regard for it.)
While he’s more talking about the myth of the given I think he is getting at
the idea by Peirce that all thought is mediated. Working the details of this
out relative to something like “the given” (and its myths) can be tricky. I’m
not entirely sure of it myself.
My guess is that for any sign there is an experience of the sign before us.
But in terms of the raw feeling of that sign there is this new example of
firstness. That in turn, to think upon, ends up being thought in terms of
thirdness. However where the confusion pops up is that it’s very easy to then
think that thinking is just a series of representations before the mind. I’m
not sure Peirce makes that move although it remains the dominant paradigm in
psychology and probably cognitive science. (I confess I can never quite make
sense of that distinction although most people I encounter who self-identify as
cognitive scientists seem much more open to non-representational views)
Having said that though here there may be more disagreement over how to read
Peirce. I know some do read Peirce as entailing a kind of representationalism.
So perhaps somewhat against my earlier comment that this is all semantics there
may be a deeper disagreement between the sides. I suspect the question can be
productively be formed as whether the experience of a quality is a thought or
whether it is just the experience of the mediation of a quality that is a
thought.
Part of the issue appears to be that firstness proper is in a sense
ineffable. To make it effable is to represent it in a sign but then it’s no
longer firstness. Is it only thought when in the sign? That’s fundamentally the
issue. While yesterday this seemed primarily a semantic issue now I’m just not
quite so sure. The main argument I think is that Peirce distinguishes thought
from mind in a few places. I think for thought he’s talking of proposition-like
entities.
The mode of being of the composition of thought, which is always of the
nature of the attribution of a predicate to a subject, is the living
intelligence which is the creator of all intelligible reality, as well as of
the knowledge of such reality. It is the ENTELECHY, or perfection of being. (CP
6.339-341;1908)
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