Edwina, Jon, List, The following observation is a good starting point for analyzing the development iof Peirce's thought and writing from 1903 to 1908 and later:
ET: I note that JAS seems to refer to his examination of the hexadic semiosic process as within the linguistic realm. If this outline refers ONLY to linguistic terms - then, I can see his point, where, for example, the word ’STOP’ does have a ‘predestined meaning’ . But - I cannot see that Peirce’s extensive examination of the semiotic process and the interpretants - is confined to the linguistic realm, for such a realm-of-examination would require merely half a paragraph - and not years of thought and work. Yes indeed. Peirce's shift from Kant's language-based phenomenology to an image-based phaneroscopy was necessary to get rid of Kant's struggle with a Ding an sich, Peirce's1903 terminology was based on language, which, by itself, is hopelessly inadequate for mapping the phaneron to a linear notation. But his shift from phenomenology to phaneroscopy coincided with an emphasis on diagrams and images as more fundamental representations than language or even his 1885 algebra of logic. That shift coincided with his generalization of term, proposition, argument to seme, pheme, and delome. For example, the following paragraph from 1906 summarizes the issues: "It is necessary that the Diagram should be an Icon in which the inferred relation should be preserved. And it is necessary that it should be insofar General that one sees that accompaniments are no part of the Object. The Diagram is an Interpretant of a Symbol in which the signification of the Symbol becomes a part of the object of the icon. No other kind of sign can make a Truth evident. For the evident is that which is presented in an image, leaving for the work of the understanding merely the Interpretation of the Image in a Symbol." (LNB 286r, 1906) In his version of phenomenology, Kant was left with an unbridgeable gap between a Ding an sich and the words that describe it. Peirce removed that gap by replacing phenomenology with phaneroscopy. Too many people treat those two words as synonyms. But the crucial difference is that the phaneron is in direct contact with the Ding an sich. by means of the sensations, feelings, and physical actions. The images and feelings become semes, and constructions of them become phemes. Phaneroscopy is the science of images, diagrams of images, and their mapping to symbols that may be expressed in various ways, including language. But language is secondary. It is not the primary medium of thought. That is why the 1903 lectures are just the starting point for his last decade of research and his evolution to completely new ways of thinking and a revolution in his methods of analyzing and diagramming his own thoughts and his system of representing it. I started to write an article for the book Kees was editing, but I missed the deadline because I kept revising it over and over again, as I kept running into all these issues. It eventually evolved into an article on phaneroscopy for the book that Ahti was editing. And after I finished that article, I saw how those issues were related to (1) the topics that Tony was working on and (2) the topics that Peirce was addressing with his Delta graphs. I believe that if Peirce had not had that accident in December 1911, he would have written an outstanding proof of pragmatism with the help of his Delta graphs and the methods he developed in the years after 1903. John ---------------------------------------- From: "Edwina Taborsky" <[email protected]> List I think it’s almost useless to discuss these issues, since I’m aware that JAS has his set of beliefs about the Peircean framework - and I [ and others] - have our own beliefs - which may or may not, align with his. But just a few points: 1] JAS quote Peirce: “ No matter what his opinion at the outset may be, it is assumed that he will end in one predestined belief” 7.327]. This quote is to support his belief in the primacy of the order of the Final Interpretant in the set of three Interpretants. But- JAS left out the following sentence, which is” “Hence it appears tha in the process of investigation wholly new ideas and elements of belief must spring up in the mind that were not there before” …He continues on with this examination of the development of entirely new ideas in the following paragraphs.[ Note = the process of abduction]. 2] And the same with his quotation from 5.407 “ No modification..can enable a man to escape the predestined opinion" . Again- like the other quotation, this is not referring to the three interpretants or the Final Interpretant, but is an analysis of the ‘process of investigation’ - which obviously involves all parts of the semiosic hexad. 3] And the same with 3.161 …carrying belief …toward certain predestinate conclusions”. Again, this refers to the “process of inference” 3.161, snd not the Fi, and as Peirce writes, these “fresh peripheral excitations are also continually creating new belief-habits” [3.161. I could also note that the Final or logical interpretant is, “that of the conditional mood’ [5.482] and therefore, in my view, not destinate’. And I don’t think that there is much difference in these conclusions as to whether the terms are logical or temporal. 4] I remain concerned about out the definition of the Dynamic Object, which I reject JAS’s view as “independent of the sign’. Peirce is quite explicit that “reality is independent, not necessarily of thought in general, but only of what you or I or any finite number of men may think about it” 5.408… I refer to this comment of Peirce only to state that the reality of objects ‘out there’ is, as he notes elsewhere, outside of our experience [see his explanations of the ‘ding an sich’ which is not the same as the Dynamic Object- which is “the Reality which by some means contrives to determine the Sign of its Representation” 4.536.1906. And “the dynamical object does not mean something out of the mind. It means something forced upon the mind in perception” SS197..1906. That is, my understanding of the DO is that it functions as such ONLY when it becomes part of the semiotic process. And as I’ve said before - I reject the use of the terms of genuine, degenerate etc referring to the DO and IO [ and II, DI, FI] for this use of terms I think refer more properly to the categorical modes-of-being - and these nodal sites in the hexad can be in any one of the three modes. . 5] I note that JAS seems to refer to his examination of the hexadic semiosic process as within the linguistic realm. If this outline refers ONLY to linguistic terms - then, I can see his point, where, for example, the word ’STOP’ does have a ‘predestined meaning’ . But - I cannot see that Peirce’s extensive examination of the semiotic process and the interpretants - is confined to the linguistic realm, for such a realm-of-examination would require merely half a paragraph - and not years of thought and work. But- I am aware that JAS will not change his conclusions - and I, am not ready to subscribe to his, so this post seems almost irrelevant, other than that I prefer to not ‘be silent’ about issues which, to me, undermine the value of the Peircean framework. Edwina
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