This has all been enormously helpful.  Thanks to all.

Diane (and doc students in doc seminar on Peicean semiotics and reading)

On Fri, Mar 16, 2012 at 9:02 AM, Jon Awbrey <jawb...@att.net> wrote:

> Eduardo,
>
> Just going by the last excerpt I quoted, and with due consideration given
> to
> all the qualifications I noted about trying understand relational
> categories
> in non-relative terms, we might try to say something like the following as
> a
> first approximation:
>
> 1 • Present • What Is
> 2 • Perfect • What Has Been
> 3 • Future Participle (future as projected from the past and present) •
> About To Be
>
> Ref. http://www.slu.edu/colleges/**AS/languages/classical/latin/**
> tchmat/grammar/vb/00800%20v-%**20principal%20parts.pdf<http://www.slu.edu/colleges/AS/languages/classical/latin/tchmat/grammar/vb/00800%20v-%20principal%20parts.pdf>
>
> That at least begins to bring out some of the relational aspect of the
> categories.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jon
>
> Eduardo Forastieri wrote:
>
>> Diane, Steven, Jon:
>>
>> I have tried, but I am not yet happy with these trichotomies concerning
>> time. However, should ordinary linear time sequencing rather than
>> tenseless
>> earlier/later relations (so called B-series) be the pivot for their
>> conception, then, perhaps, actual indexicality (Secondness) and modality
>> (possible Firstness and possible Thirdness) should be paramount:
>>
>> First:                  may be -now- this/that
>> Second              is -now- this/that
>> Third                would be -now/then- this/that
>>
>> Best to you,
>> Eduardo Forastieri-Braschi
>>
>>
>> On 3/15/12 9:26 AM, "Jon Awbrey" <jawb...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>>  Steven,
>>>
>>> I think the point about sequentiality is correct.
>>>
>>> Relations are ordered according to their arities or dimensions,
>>> and Peirce holds that three are enough to generate all others,
>>> but not all relations of constraint or determination, that is,
>>> information, are causal or temporal in nature, not even if we
>>> try to imagine some order of triadic causality or temporality.
>>>
>>> Attempting to understand the relational categories by setting out
>>> ordered lists
>>> of terms that are regarded as naming absolute, monadic, non-relational
>>> essences
>>> is a sign that our understanding has gone off track and fallen into yet
>>> another
>>> rut of reductionism.  I don't know what to call it -- absolutism?
>>>  monadicism?
>>> non-relativism? -- but it's just as bad a form of reductionism as
>>> nominalism.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jon
>>>
>>> Steven Ericsson-Zenith wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Diane,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with those that question whether Peirce would be comfortable
>>>> using
>>>> notions of linear time, as Jon's quote highlights.
>>>>
>>>> In the context of time conceptions (for me, time is simply a way of
>>>> speaking)
>>>> I would prefer:
>>>> 1st  = the immediate experience
>>>> 2nd = the accessible record
>>>> 3rd = the manifold of unity
>>>>
>>>> In brief: immediacy, record, unification.
>>>>
>>>> It would be important for me to observe that no sequential nature
>>>> should be
>>>> read into the process suggested by these categories, they covary in
>>>> what I
>>>> would call "the eternal moment." The conception of time is a product of
>>>> the
>>>> unifying effect of what Peirce calls "thirdness."
>>>>
>>>> With respect,
>>>> Steven
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr. Steven Ericsson-Zenith
>>>> Institute for Advanced Science & Engineering
>>>> http://iase.info
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 14, 2012, at 8:56 AM, Diane Stephens wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  In the book Semiotics I by Donald Thomas, he includes a chart which
>>>>> shows
>>>>> concepts associated with firsts, seconds and thirds.  For example, a
>>>>> first
>>>>> is quality, a second is fact and a third is law.  I understand all but
>>>>> second as past as in:
>>>>>
>>>>> First - present
>>>>> Second - past Third - future
>>>>> I would appreciate some help.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Diane Stephens
>>>>> Swearingen Chair of Education
>>>>> Wardlaw 255
>>>>> College of Education
>>>>> University of South Carolina
>>>>> Columbia, SC 29208
>>>>> 803-777-0502
>>>>> Fax 803-777-3193
>>>>>
>>>>
> --
>
> academia: 
> http://independent.academia.**edu/JonAwbrey<http://independent.academia.edu/JonAwbrey>
> inquiry list: 
> http://stderr.org/pipermail/**inquiry/<http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/>
> mwb: 
> http://www.mywikibiz.com/**Directory:Jon_Awbrey<http://www.mywikibiz.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey>
> oeiswiki: 
> http://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:**Jon_Awbrey<http://www.oeis.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey>
> word press blog 1: 
> http://jonawbrey.wordpress.**com/<http://jonawbrey.wordpress.com/>
> word press blog 2: http://inquiryintoinquiry.com/
>
> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> ---------------------
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L
> listserv.  To remove yourself from this list, send a message to
> lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line "SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L" in the body
> of the message.  To post a message to the list, send it to
> PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
>



-- 
Diane Stephens
Swearingen Chair of Education
Wardlaw 255
College of Education
University of South Carolina
Columbia, SC 29208
803-777-0502
Fax 803-777-3193

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the PEIRCE-L 
listserv.  To remove yourself from this list, send a message to 
lists...@listserv.iupui.edu with the line "SIGNOFF PEIRCE-L" in the body of the 
message.  To post a message to the list, send it to PEIRCE-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU

Reply via email to