I never said the word "freedom" was unknown in English before Hegel, or even that liberty and freedom had different meanings prior to the 20th Century. I was answering a different question, which is why 21st Century "money libertarians" prefer "liberty" to "freedom" when they speak, and my answer is that the Left has the unfortunate tendency of coopting perfectly good words, thereby requiring everyone else to adjust (e.g., the somewhat surreal notion in the United States that libertarians are more likely characterized as a "conservatives" as opposed to "liberals"). The same is true for "freedom", which had perfectly good meaning in the English speaking world prior to the introduction of Hegelian ideas in the late 19th Century. The Hegelians had to overcome an individualistic resistance to their organic view of the state, which necessitated an attack on the common understanding of the value of "freedom."
David Shemano From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Perelman, Michael Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 9:37 AM To: 'Progressive Economics' Subject: Re: [Pen-l] Freedom v. Liberty I am not sure that the English speaking world needed Hegel to learn the word freedom. People spoke about free men (not women, of course), well before Hegel. The term franklin denotes a member of a social class or rank in England in the 12th to 15th centuries. In the period when Middle English was in use, a franklin was simply a freeman; that is, a man who was not a serf, in the feudal system under which people were tied to land which they did not own, in bondage to a member of the nobility who owned that land. Michael Perelman Economics Department California State University Chico, CA 95929 Tel. 530-898-5321 E-Mail [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> michaelperelman.wordpress.com From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Shemano Sent: Monday, April 15, 2013 9:31 AM To: Progressive Economics Subject: [Pen-l] Freedom v. Liberty Jim Devine asks: "in popular language (or even technical language), is there any difference of meaning between the words "freedom" and "liberty"? why do the money libertarians like the word "liberty" more than "freedom"? inquiring minds want to know," ---------------------------------- >From September 29, 2009, on this list: Jim Devine writes: >> BTW, why is it that money libertarians like the word "liberty" while >> most other people like the word "freedom"? Most people seem to use the >> two words interchangeably. Here is a theory. "Money libertarians," as you call them, are the contemporary descendants of 19th Century "Liberalism," which term is rooted in "Libertas," and Libertas is at root a legal status of a free-man (i.e. not a slave). The term "freedom," on the other hand, through the efforts of Germans like Hegel, and then transmitted to the English speaking world through interpreters like T.H. Green, became associated with what you call "positive freedom" (i.e. a free-man who makes a bad choice, or is limited by circumstance in making choices, is not really "free"). Therefore, to "money libertarians." liberty is a status relationship between man and the state, while for the modern day Hegelians, freedom is more of a psychological state of a man. Money libertarians, aware (contra Mr. Andrews) of the efforts of the modern day Hegelians to minimize the importance of legal status in order to justify state power, therefore, prefer "liberty" rather than "freedom" as the ideal. David Shemano _______________________ I suggest we pick a date in 2017 when Jim will be permitted to ask the question again. David Shemano
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