That's right. Lacquer finishes are a little harder to work with than shellac, because lacquer disolves slower. Shellac dissolves RIGHT NOW. The rewarding thing about shellac is that you can brush on alcohol carefully, and you see the original finish right away. I usually polish out the finish after it hardens, then shoot on a coat of lacquer to help protect the shellac against things like water or spills that can hurt shellac easily. That's up to the individual party, though. In general, phonographs had beautiful finishes, and I like to see them in their original glory. many others perfer to have them in clean, but their aged appearance. Again, an individual preference.
If you have a finish that's checked or "blushed", as lacquer does do, after getting it thoroughly clean (as with any finish), brush on RETARDED lacquer thinner. You get retarder from automotive paint suppliers, and mix about a 50-50 solution with your thinner. In most cases, you can get the lacquer finish back to good condition by brushing carefully with an artist's brush. If you're going to use new lacquer over the original, as I've done a lot, you'll need to reconstitute the old lacquer with the retarded thinner. The problem is that the plasticizer (the thuinner) has dried out of the lacquer, and it's just dry cellulose after all those years. It needs to be revitalized before you put new lacquer over it. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" <[email protected]> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors > So, if Bob's console is later and has nitrocellulose lacquer on in, will a > wash with Lacquer thinner remove it? (Used in a well ventilated/spark and > flame free area of course.) > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Doug > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:41 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain > colors > > > Let me insert another thought or two if I may. I'm one of those abominable > wretches who collects and restores those things called Radios. But, the > similarity comes with refinishing or repairing cabinets. > > Firstly, phonographs and radios both never were varnished. While there > might > have been an isolated exception, shellac was used prior to 1925, and > nitrocellulose lacquer after that year. There were some hangers-on after > '25, of course. You can use Varnish, of course, but you're just making > life > hard for yourself .I used to use varnish, until I learned the facts. > > Now, on the veneer grafting issue. If you want to patch in veneer, first, > you'll want to get a piece that matches the surrounding grain that you are > repairing. Then, with possibly 220 grade wet-dry sandpaper, feather-edge > the > periphery of the hole in the cabinet veneer (the area that you're going > to > repair). Then, take the patching piece, cut a little bigger than the area > to be filled. and glue it over the hole, overlapping the edges. Clamp it, > using a piece of soft rubber, so as to press the new patch into the > "welled" area. Let it harden, at least overnight. After the glue is well > set, block sand the patch to where it blends into the rest of the veneered > surface. It works like a champ. I',ve done it a few times, and the repair > is > all but imperceptable. I use Franklin's Titebond. but there are other good > glues that do just as well. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bob" <[email protected]> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:55 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors > > >> Matching old finishes is pretty tricky. I find the best way to do this >> is >> to use old veneer that is similar the original used on the piece. I try >> to >> save veneer from old pieces that are too far gone to restore. Most old >> veneer is finished with a stain varnish. It can be sanded off easily. >> The >> key is not to remove the filler in the veneer.. I cut the section to be >> patched with razor blade held at a 45 degree angle. Then I feather sand >> the >> edge of the patch at a similar angle. If the veneer is too thick, sand >> it >> form the back side with coarse sandpaper. When it fits properly you can >> glue it in with white glue. You can then use any stain you like to >> darken >> the patch to match the piece if necessary. I usually use gel stains that >> can be wiped on with a rag. After a few minutes you can wipe off the >> excess. The more you remove the lighter the color will be. When your >> satisfied with the color you can clear coat the area to achieve a gloss >> similar to the rest of the piece. The clear coat may darken the color a >> little so it's best to make some sample pieces with both the stain and >> clear >> coast finish on them before you finish the patches on your piece. I >> think >> this technique will also work on a complete piece if you can find a piece >> of >> old veneer large enough to cover a new piece of wood. >> RMV >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Albertson" <[email protected]> >> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors >> >> >>> Ken: >>> >>> I see that no one is jumping in here. So I will try to give you some >>> pointers. >>> >>> Each collector has his or her preference as to finishes. Some use >>> original >>> shellac (orange or clear). Others like oils, and yet others like >>> lacquer >>> based products for big jobs such as cabinets or uprights. When it comes >>> to >>> these choices, the size of the job matters as does what one is most >>> comfortable with. The application also matters...ie: spray vs. rubbed >>> on >>> vs. ragged on. >>> >>> So, choosing your refinishing medium is really a personal choice as to >>> what >>> your comfortable with and trying to accomplish. >>> >>> By the sounds of it, you have original finish machines that need a >>> replacement board here or there and the question is how to "match" >>> finishes...new to the old. Well, my experience suggests a great deal of >>> patience, a practice board, and a variety of lighting conditions. >>> Patience >>> is obvious as is a practice board identical to the wood you will be >>> working >>> with. Different lighting (natural vs. fluorescent, vs. incandescent) >>> will >>> cause colors to act differently, so it's important to go slow and check >>> in >>> different lights at different times using the medium of your choice. >>> But >>> you need a product to mix with your shellac, minwax oil etc........read >>> on. >>> >>> I have found that the best product for dialing in and matching finishes >>> is >>> an alcohol based anyline dye specifically made by the Wood Finish Supply >>> Company. They sell a metalized extract concentrate dye mixed in MEK. >>> The >>> advantage of these dyes is that they dissolve in any base medium you >>> like >>> to >>> work in (shellac, oil, lacquer..etc.) and come in a host of colors for >>> very >>> precise color control (one drop at a time). In addition, the company >>> provides baseline quantity combinations for most wood colors you will be >>> seeking. I would recommend starting with four colors...black, warm >>> brown, >>> yellow, and red.....each in 8oz bottles). From there you can nail down >>> most >>> all the colors we see in phonos except green oak. >>> >>> Used alone, the dye will flash off and evaporate too fast for custom >>> applications, so you need to use a baseline medium and then add dye >>> drops >>> to >>> that for your precision control of color. >>> >>> Again, take a spoonful of patience before starting and have fun. >>> >>> You can check out Wood Finish Supply Co. at www.woodfinishsupply.com I >>> would >>> also suggest calling them. They are very helpful. Again, the product >>> is >>> "Metalized Extract Concentrate Dye in MEK"....Get the four colors to >>> start. >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Mark Albertson >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ken Danckaert" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 3:57 PM >>> Subject: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors >>> >>> >>>>I can do almost anything with metal but I have a devil of a time with >>>> the cases. When you have to make a new wood part for a cabinet, it is >>>> really difficult to color match close to the original. I would really >>>> like to see suggestions from you all on how you get wood parts to >>>> match. Maybe someone knows a good source for stains or finishes that >>>> help you get a match. Is there a magical technique out there? My >>>> brute >>>> strength approaches usually get me close but they are very time >>>> consuming and chancy. Any suggestions? >>>> >>>> Ken Danckaert >>>> Severna Park, MD >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> Phono-L Archive >>>> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> Phono-L Archive >>> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> Phono-L Archive >> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > [email protected] > > Phono-L Archive > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > [email protected] > > Phono-L Archive > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
