The fumes of the shellac thinner? 8-) Ron L
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Doug Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 6:44 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors How in blazes did my message ever get garbaged up like THAT? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug" <[email protected]> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 5:55 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors > That' riht. Once saned down, the edge of the repir will be vey difficult > to > dicern. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron L'Herault" <[email protected]> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 4:23 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors > > >> And, if I am understanding the technique correctly, this is why you sand >> the >> original to a feather edge. There is no abrupt change in level and the >> patch can be then sanded to a feather edge to blend it in, right? >> >> Ron L >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] >> [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Doug >> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:45 PM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain >> colors >> >> >> Not rerally thin stuff. You'll want to use veneer pieces at least as >> thick >> as the original . When you clamp it down, it will sink into the little >> well >> in the existing veneer. That's why you use a soft rubber piece to push it >> into place when it's glued and clamped. >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Robert Wright" <[email protected]> >> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:10 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors >> >> >>> Sage advice from an abominable wretch! I love radios too, though I >>> don't >>> have any anymore. My first was a Silvertone (I know, I know) >>> AM/78rpm/wire >>> recorder (I said I know!) that I intended to completely re-veneer with a >>> very pronounced grain of some kind... maybe green or purple varnish... >>> *ahem*. Hey, I was young and needed the money. If it hadn't been >>> missing >>> a >>> couple of teeth on the gear that undulated the wire recorder head, I >>> probably would've (egads) finished the thing. I wish now I would >>> have -- >>> with you guys and gals, it would've been worth a good laugh or two. And >>> you >>> KNOW I woulda put it up on eBay at some point. >>> >>> I did get about 5 pieces of it veneered, though, and Doug's patching >>> advice >>> would've come in handy. Hey Doug, is there any special trick to get the >>> veneer soft enough to really fill the hole exactly, or do you just use >>> extremely thin veneer? >>> >>> Best, >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Doug" <[email protected]> >>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 1:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain >>> colors >>> >>> >>>> Let me insert another thought or two if I may. I'm one of those >>>> abominable >>>> wretches who collects and restores those things called Radios. But, the >>>> similarity comes with refinishing or repairing cabinets. >>>> >>>> Firstly, phonographs and radios both never were varnished. While there >>> might >>>> have been an isolated exception, shellac was used prior to 1925, and >>>> nitrocellulose lacquer after that year. There were some hangers-on >>>> after >>>> '25, of course. You can use Varnish, of course, but you're just making >>> life >>>> hard for yourself .I used to use varnish, until I learned the facts. >>>> >>>> Now, on the veneer grafting issue. If you want to patch in veneer, >>>> first, >>>> you'll want to get a piece that matches the surrounding grain that you >>>> are >>>> repairing. Then, with possibly 220 grade wet-dry sandpaper, >>>> feather-edge >>> the >>>> periphery of the hole in the cabinet veneer (the area that you're >>>> going >>> to >>>> repair). Then, take the patching piece, cut a little bigger than the >>>> area >>>> to be filled. and glue it over the hole, overlapping the edges. Clamp >>>> it, >>>> using a piece of soft rubber, so as to press the new patch into the >>>> "welled" area. Let it harden, at least overnight. After the glue is >>>> well >>>> set, block sand the patch to where it blends into the rest of the >>>> veneered >>>> surface. It works like a champ. I',ve done it a few times, and the >>>> repair >>> is >>>> all but imperceptable. I use Franklin's Titebond. but there are other >>>> good >>>> glues that do just as well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "bob" <[email protected]> >>>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:55 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain >>>> colors >>>> >>>> >>>> > Matching old finishes is pretty tricky. I find the best way to do >>>> > this >>> is >>>> > to use old veneer that is similar the original used on the piece. I >>>> > try >>>> > to >>>> > save veneer from old pieces that are too far gone to restore. Most >>>> > old >>>> > veneer is finished with a stain varnish. It can be sanded off >>>> > easily. >>>> > The >>>> > key is not to remove the filler in the veneer.. I cut the section to >>>> > be >>>> > patched with razor blade held at a 45 degree angle. Then I feather >>>> > sand >>>> > the >>>> > edge of the patch at a similar angle. If the veneer is too thick, >>>> > sand >>> it >>>> > form the back side with coarse sandpaper. When it fits properly you >>>> > can >>>> > glue it in with white glue. You can then use any stain you like to >>> darken >>>> > the patch to match the piece if necessary. I usually use gel stains >>> that >>>> > can be wiped on with a rag. After a few minutes you can wipe off the >>>> > excess. The more you remove the lighter the color will be. When >>>> > your >>>> > satisfied with the color you can clear coat the area to achieve a >>>> > gloss >>>> > similar to the rest of the piece. The clear coat may darken the >>>> > color >>>> > a >>>> > little so it's best to make some sample pieces with both the stain >>>> > and >>>> > clear >>>> > coast finish on them before you finish the patches on your piece. I >>> think >>>> > this technique will also work on a complete piece if you can find a >>> piece >>>> > of >>>> > old veneer large enough to cover a new piece of wood. >>>> > RMV >>>> > ----- Original Message ----- >>>> > From: "Mark Albertson" <[email protected]> >>>> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> >>>> > Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:30 PM >>>> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain >>> colors >>>> > >>>> > >>>> >> Ken: >>>> >> >>>> >> I see that no one is jumping in here. So I will try to give you >>>> >> some >>>> >> pointers. >>>> >> >>>> >> Each collector has his or her preference as to finishes. Some use >>>> >> original >>>> >> shellac (orange or clear). Others like oils, and yet others like >>> lacquer >>>> >> based products for big jobs such as cabinets or uprights. When it >>> comes >>>> >> to >>>> >> these choices, the size of the job matters as does what one is most >>>> >> comfortable with. The application also matters...ie: spray vs. >>>> >> rubbed >>> on >>>> >> vs. ragged on. >>>> >> >>>> >> So, choosing your refinishing medium is really a personal choice as >>>> >> to >>>> >> what >>>> >> your comfortable with and trying to accomplish. >>>> >> >>>> >> By the sounds of it, you have original finish machines that need a >>>> >> replacement board here or there and the question is how to "match" >>>> >> finishes...new to the old. Well, my experience suggests a great >>>> >> deal >>> of >>>> >> patience, a practice board, and a variety of lighting conditions. >>>> >> Patience >>>> >> is obvious as is a practice board identical to the wood you will be >>>> >> working >>>> >> with. Different lighting (natural vs. fluorescent, vs. >>>> >> incandescent) >>>> >> will >>>> >> cause colors to act differently, so it's important to go slow and >>>> >> check >>>> >> in >>>> >> different lights at different times using the medium of your choice. >>> But >>>> >> you need a product to mix with your shellac, minwax oil >>>> >> etc........read >>>> >> on. >>>> >> >>>> >> I have found that the best product for dialing in and matching >>>> >> finishes >>>> >> is >>>> >> an alcohol based anyline dye specifically made by the Wood Finish >>> Supply >>>> >> Company. They sell a metalized extract concentrate dye mixed in >>>> >> MEK. >>>> >> The >>>> >> advantage of these dyes is that they dissolve in any base medium you >>> like >>>> >> to >>>> >> work in (shellac, oil, lacquer..etc.) and come in a host of colors >>>> >> for >>>> >> very >>>> >> precise color control (one drop at a time). In addition, the >>>> >> company >>>> >> provides baseline quantity combinations for most wood colors you >>>> >> will >>> be >>>> >> seeking. I would recommend starting with four colors...black, warm >>>> >> brown, >>>> >> yellow, and red.....each in 8oz bottles). From there you can nail >>>> >> down >>>> >> most >>>> >> all the colors we see in phonos except green oak. >>>> >> >>>> >> Used alone, the dye will flash off and evaporate too fast for custom >>>> >> applications, so you need to use a baseline medium and then add dye >>> drops >>>> >> to >>>> >> that for your precision control of color. >>>> >> >>>> >> Again, take a spoonful of patience before starting and have fun. >>>> >> >>>> >> You can check out Wood Finish Supply Co. at www.woodfinishsupply.com >>>> >> I >>>> >> would >>>> >> also suggest calling them. They are very helpful. Again, the >>>> >> product >>> is >>>> >> "Metalized Extract Concentrate Dye in MEK"....Get the four colors to >>>> >> start. >>>> >> >>>> >> Best >>>> >> >>>> >> Mark Albertson >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> >> From: "Ken Danckaert" <[email protected]> >>>> >> To: <[email protected]> >>>> >> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 3:57 PM >>>> >> Subject: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain >>>> >> colors >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >>>I can do almost anything with metal but I have a devil of a time >>>> >>>with >>>> >>> the cases. When you have to make a new wood part for a cabinet, it >>>> >>> is >>>> >>> really difficult to color match close to the original. I would >>>> >>> really >>>> >>> like to see suggestions from you all on how you get wood parts to >>>> >>> match. Maybe someone knows a good source for stains or finishes >>>> >>> that >>>> >>> help you get a match. Is there a magical technique out there? My >>> brute >>>> >>> strength approaches usually get me close but they are very time >>>> >>> consuming and chancy. Any suggestions? >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Ken Danckaert >>>> >>> Severna Park, MD >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>>> >>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> >>> [email protected] >>>> >>> >>>> >>> Phono-L Archive >>>> >>> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Phono-L mailing list >>>> >> [email protected] >>>> >> >>>> >> Phono-L Archive >>>> >> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >>>> >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>>> >> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: >>> 2/1/2006 >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Phono-L mailing list >>>> > [email protected] >>>> > >>>> > Phono-L Archive >>>> > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>>> > >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> Phono-L Archive >>>> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> Phono-L Archive >>> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> Phono-L Archive >> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> Phono-L Archive >> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > [email protected] > > Phono-L Archive > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list [email protected] Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
