Hi Bob, Maybe after a thorough cleaning, you could try brushing on shellac that has been thinned with a lot of alcohol. Start with the back to see how it works.
Ron L -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of bob Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:53 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors Ron, The Columbia Console is a Grafonola 150 and dates to 1915. Therefore I assume the finish is shellac. The cabinet is mahogany. I assume denatured alcohol would probably remove it but I'm not sure if it will also pull the stain and filler. I really want to avoid pulling the filler out of the mahogany because it usually never all comes out and can leave a spotty surface when it's time to refinish. RMV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" <[email protected]> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 3:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors > So, if Bob's console is later and has nitrocellulose lacquer on in, will a > wash with Lacquer thinner remove it? (Used in a well ventilated/spark and > flame free area of course.) > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]on Behalf Of Doug > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:41 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain > colors > > > Let me insert another thought or two if I may. I'm one of those abominable > wretches who collects and restores those things called Radios. But, the > similarity comes with refinishing or repairing cabinets. > > Firstly, phonographs and radios both never were varnished. While there > might > have been an isolated exception, shellac was used prior to 1925, and > nitrocellulose lacquer after that year. There were some hangers-on after > '25, of course. You can use Varnish, of course, but you're just making > life > hard for yourself .I used to use varnish, until I learned the facts. > > Now, on the veneer grafting issue. If you want to patch in veneer, first, > you'll want to get a piece that matches the surrounding grain that you are > repairing. Then, with possibly 220 grade wet-dry sandpaper, feather-edge > the > periphery of the hole in the cabinet veneer (the area that you're going > to > repair). Then, take the patching piece, cut a little bigger than the area > to be filled. and glue it over the hole, overlapping the edges. Clamp it, > using a piece of soft rubber, so as to press the new patch into the > "welled" area. Let it harden, at least overnight. After the glue is well > set, block sand the patch to where it blends into the rest of the veneered > surface. It works like a champ. I',ve done it a few times, and the repair > is > all but imperceptable. I use Franklin's Titebond. but there are other good > glues that do just as well. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "bob" <[email protected]> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> > Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 11:55 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors > > >> Matching old finishes is pretty tricky. I find the best way to do this >> is >> to use old veneer that is similar the original used on the piece. I try >> to >> save veneer from old pieces that are too far gone to restore. Most old >> veneer is finished with a stain varnish. It can be sanded off easily. >> The >> key is not to remove the filler in the veneer.. I cut the section to be >> patched with razor blade held at a 45 degree angle. Then I feather sand >> the >> edge of the patch at a similar angle. If the veneer is too thick, sand >> it >> form the back side with coarse sandpaper. When it fits properly you can >> glue it in with white glue. You can then use any stain you like to >> darken >> the patch to match the piece if necessary. I usually use gel stains that >> can be wiped on with a rag. After a few minutes you can wipe off the >> excess. The more you remove the lighter the color will be. When your >> satisfied with the color you can clear coat the area to achieve a gloss >> similar to the rest of the piece. The clear coat may darken the color a >> little so it's best to make some sample pieces with both the stain and >> clear >> coast finish on them before you finish the patches on your piece. I >> think >> this technique will also work on a complete piece if you can find a piece >> of >> old veneer large enough to cover a new piece of wood. >> RMV >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Mark Albertson" <[email protected]> >> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 11:30 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors >> >> >>> Ken: >>> >>> I see that no one is jumping in here. So I will try to give you some >>> pointers. >>> >>> Each collector has his or her preference as to finishes. Some use >>> original >>> shellac (orange or clear). Others like oils, and yet others like >>> lacquer >>> based products for big jobs such as cabinets or uprights. When it comes >>> to >>> these choices, the size of the job matters as does what one is most >>> comfortable with. The application also matters...ie: spray vs. rubbed >>> on >>> vs. ragged on. >>> >>> So, choosing your refinishing medium is really a personal choice as to >>> what >>> your comfortable with and trying to accomplish. >>> >>> By the sounds of it, you have original finish machines that need a >>> replacement board here or there and the question is how to "match" >>> finishes...new to the old. Well, my experience suggests a great deal of >>> patience, a practice board, and a variety of lighting conditions. >>> Patience >>> is obvious as is a practice board identical to the wood you will be >>> working >>> with. Different lighting (natural vs. fluorescent, vs. incandescent) >>> will >>> cause colors to act differently, so it's important to go slow and check >>> in >>> different lights at different times using the medium of your choice. >>> But >>> you need a product to mix with your shellac, minwax oil etc........read >>> on. >>> >>> I have found that the best product for dialing in and matching finishes >>> is >>> an alcohol based anyline dye specifically made by the Wood Finish Supply >>> Company. They sell a metalized extract concentrate dye mixed in MEK. >>> The >>> advantage of these dyes is that they dissolve in any base medium you >>> like >>> to >>> work in (shellac, oil, lacquer..etc.) and come in a host of colors for >>> very >>> precise color control (one drop at a time). In addition, the company >>> provides baseline quantity combinations for most wood colors you will be >>> seeking. I would recommend starting with four colors...black, warm >>> brown, >>> yellow, and red.....each in 8oz bottles). From there you can nail down >>> most >>> all the colors we see in phonos except green oak. >>> >>> Used alone, the dye will flash off and evaporate too fast for custom >>> applications, so you need to use a baseline medium and then add dye >>> drops >>> to >>> that for your precision control of color. >>> >>> Again, take a spoonful of patience before starting and have fun. >>> >>> You can check out Wood Finish Supply Co. at www.woodfinishsupply.com I >>> would >>> also suggest calling them. They are very helpful. Again, the product >>> is >>> "Metalized Extract Concentrate Dye in MEK"....Get the four colors to >>> start. >>> >>> Best >>> >>> Mark Albertson >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Ken Danckaert" <[email protected]> >>> To: <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Monday, February 06, 2006 3:57 PM >>> Subject: [Phono-L] Need advice on finishing and matching stain colors >>> >>> >>>>I can do almost anything with metal but I have a devil of a time with >>>> the cases. When you have to make a new wood part for a cabinet, it is >>>> really difficult to color match close to the original. I would really >>>> like to see suggestions from you all on how you get wood parts to >>>> match. Maybe someone knows a good source for stains or finishes that >>>> help you get a match. Is there a magical technique out there? My >>>> brute >>>> strength approaches usually get me close but they are very time >>>> consuming and chancy. Any suggestions? >>>> >>>> Ken Danckaert >>>> Severna Park, MD >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> Phono-L Archive >>>> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> >>> Phono-L Archive >>> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >>> >>> >>> -- >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >>> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> [email protected] >> >> Phono-L Archive >> http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > [email protected] > > Phono-L Archive > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > [email protected] > > Phono-L Archive > http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/ > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.0/248 - Release Date: 2/1/2006 > > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list [email protected] Phono-L Archive http://www.oldcrank.org/pipermail/phono-l/
