At 17:21 20/08/2002, Brad LaFountain wrote: > Ok this experience you are talking about is converting php3 => php4 correct?
Both PHP/FI 2 => PHP 3 and PHP 3 => PHP 4 >Well how many people are were using php3 at that time? Siginifntly less? The >conversion from php3 to php4 offered a more stable faster scripting language >all around with more extensions more webserver support builtin session support >etc etc. The conversion from 3 to 4 was a really obvious one. No Brad, it wasn't. PHP 3 was already in use by over a million web sites when 4 came out. That's an insanely large number. Please, you weren't around back then, trust me when I tell you it wasn't easy at all to make this conversion happen. Just convincing the developer community to put the focus on the 4 CVS took months. The fact that we sent out a clear message that new features (and this IS a new feature) were going to be included in 4, and 4 only, later helped to get the developer community to upgrade. > Ok now php is >installed on how many million servers? Comparing apples and apples, we're talking about approximately 6 million I think. Significantly larger, but same order of magnitude. > It doesn't matter how many features you >offer php4 isn't going to go away. The same could be said about PHP 3. Do you have any idea what a large number *1 million domains* is? Hell, how about Windows 95, or NT4, which were all over the place. Who uses them anymore? > Its like saying that apache 1.3 is going to >go away. No, it's not. Let's compare apples and apples. If Apache 1.4 came out, then there are good chances that Apache 1.3 would have died, in the same way 1.2 is effectively dead, even though it was on millions and millions of servers. 2.0 is a rewrite with SERIOUS changes and issues, and it's highly debatable whether the gain from it is worth the price. See my previous post regarding this comparison... >Besides whos to say that >adding debug_backtrace now to 4.3 won't steer more people to php instead of >other envrionments. I'm willing to be the first person to say this if no one beats me to it... Such a featurelet steering people to choose one technology/platform over the other? > We still need a carrot for people to convert to php >ingeneral not just convering our current userbase to zend2. I really see what >you and andi are saying here but I feel (I could be wrong) that the >debug_backtrace won't keep zend1 around any longer than it will already be. Me >personally I won't upgrade my servers running zend1. I'll probally only >install >zend2 on a differenet installation or on new servers. Holding back stuff like >this is extremly frustrating to me and many others. You won't upgrade even in a year's time, or even 1.5 year's time, when all new features, and at some point, security fixes, are available for it? That is my point, Brad, exactly. We barely have enough manpower to maintain one version, you seriously think we can maintain two? Every carrot to encourage migration, even if it's a minicarrot, should be used. By the way, if you really don't intend to upgrade to take advantage of new features and fixes, I'm willing to bet that these boxes are static boxes with legacy apps that won't include active development. As the feature in question is debugging/development related, I can't see how it will be useful in that setup. Zeev -- PHP Development Mailing List <http://www.php.net/> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
