On Tue, Aug 20, 2002 at 06:12:19PM +0300, Zeev Suraski wrote:
>
> You won't upgrade even in a year's time, or even 1.5 year's time, when all
> new features, and at some point, security fixes, are available for
> it? That is my point, Brad, exactly. We barely have enough manpower to
> maintain one version, you seriously think we can maintain two? Every
> carrot to encourage migration, even if it's a minicarrot, should be used.
> By the way, if you really don't intend to upgrade to take advantage of new
> features and fixes, I'm willing to bet that these boxes are static boxes
> with legacy apps that won't include active development. As the feature in
> question is debugging/development related, I can't see how it will be
> useful in that setup.
i really have to say that this feature is _extremly_
helpful on production-machines, as certain bugs simply
don't appear while developing an application. beeing able to
have more information what when wrong (and who made it go
wrong) on a produnction system (where performance doesn't
allow loading eg dericks xdebug) is just such a nice thing.
don't you think you overestimate the importance of
debug_backtrace() for the ZE2 a bit? ZE2 will stand by it's
own, and if you and andi didn't had this cool idea on how to
implement debug_backtrace() in an efficient way, we'd tell
users in 3 years that it's not possible to have it without
having a major performance hit.
i'm atleast happy that the real reason for your dislike is
now very clear and has been said by you and andy -> it's the
'carrot for the donkey'.
current situation is:
- it's there (invented by you and andi for ZE2)
- it's backported and works as well in ZE1
- you don't want it in ZE1 as you want to keep it as your
"golden bullet" to make non-OO people switch to ZE2
- ZE2 won't be available for some time
- there is no decent/working alternative for production
system to allow post-mortem analysys.
- by showing how-pissed you would be if i committed and
knowing that i respect you guys a lot you are vetoing out a
cool feature for all people that have to write and deploy
php apps *today*.
- by taking momentum from PHP4/ZE1 development you will _not_
build more momentum for PHP5/ZE2 - the opposite is more
than true.
- you are pissed
- i am pissed
the only guilt i have is that i've shown the kids the toy -
and you're not allowing it away. and i'm not even guilty of that! i
i was full of good intention when looking into this.
i will continue to advocte for inclusion of the patch, you'll
have to continue telling people "no, this sweet carrot is
only for the brave somewhen early next year!"
doesn't that feel strange?
tc
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