First of all I wanna just say that I'm just stating my opnion. You seem to be getting angry. Im not trying to say your wrong and I'm right. Please don't take it like that.
--- Zeev Suraski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > At 17:21 20/08/2002, Brad LaFountain wrote: > > Ok this experience you are talking about is converting php3 => php4 > correct? > > Both PHP/FI 2 => PHP 3 and PHP 3 => PHP 4 > > >Well how many people are were using php3 at that time? Siginifntly less? The > >conversion from php3 to php4 offered a more stable faster scripting language > >all around with more extensions more webserver support builtin session > support > >etc etc. The conversion from 3 to 4 was a really obvious one. > > No Brad, it wasn't. PHP 3 was already in use by over a million web sites > when 4 came out. That's an insanely large number. Please, you weren't > around back then, trust me when I tell you it wasn't easy at all to make > this conversion happen. Just convincing the developer community to put the > focus on the 4 CVS took months. The fact that we sent out a clear message > that new features (and this IS a new feature) were going to be included in > 4, and 4 only, later helped to get the developer community to upgrade. > > > Ok now php is > >installed on how many million servers? > > Comparing apples and apples, we're talking about approximately 6 million I > think. Significantly larger, but same order of magnitude. > > > It doesn't matter how many features you > >offer php4 isn't going to go away. > > The same could be said about PHP 3. Do you have any idea what a large > number *1 million domains* is? Hell, how about Windows 95, or NT4, which > were all over the place. Who uses them anymore? I know pepole who use 95 and NT, hell we still have alot of them in my office and you know MS is still supporting them. > > > Its like saying that apache 1.3 is going to > >go away. > > No, it's not. Let's compare apples and apples. If Apache 1.4 came out, > then there are good chances that Apache 1.3 would have died, in the same > way 1.2 is effectively dead, even though it was on millions and millions of > servers. 2.0 is a rewrite with SERIOUS changes and issues, and it's highly > debatable whether the gain from it is worth the price. See my previous > post regarding this comparison... Well zend2 also has some serious changes and it introduces some bc issues. Maybe not major ones but it does introduce some. > > >Besides whos to say that > >adding debug_backtrace now to 4.3 won't steer more people to php instead of > >other envrionments. > > I'm willing to be the first person to say this if no one beats me to > it... Such a featurelet steering people to choose one technology/platform > over the other? In one case ive heard someone didn't choose php becuase it doesn't support MI. Now ive heard this from a "not very smart programmer" but that was the decision. I know that thats absoulty obsurde but something like php doesn't support backtraces may or maynot lean someone twards php. I konw this isn't the majority but maybe a handfull. > > We still need a carrot for people to convert to php > >ingeneral not just convering our current userbase to zend2. I really see > what > >you and andi are saying here but I feel (I could be wrong) that the > >debug_backtrace won't keep zend1 around any longer than it will already be. > Me > >personally I won't upgrade my servers running zend1. I'll probally only > >install > >zend2 on a differenet installation or on new servers. Holding back stuff > like > >this is extremly frustrating to me and many others. > > You won't upgrade even in a year's time, or even 1.5 year's time, when all > new features, and at some point, security fixes, are available for > it? That is my point, Brad, exactly. We barely have enough manpower to > maintain one version, you seriously think we can maintain two? Every > carrot to encourage migration, even if it's a minicarrot, should be used. > By the way, if you really don't intend to upgrade to take advantage of new > features and fixes, I'm willing to bet that these boxes are static boxes > with legacy apps that won't include active development. As the feature in > question is debugging/development related, I can't see how it will be > useful in that setup. They would be semi-static boxes im sure there will be features and fixes that would be done on them and debug_backtrace would help in that effort. Obvisouly we all have our own opnion I wanted to state mine not get in a big argument about this. I do see your point, as a zend2 advocate, and im sure you see mine too, as a php user who wants debug_backtrace. So what to do, do you just call the shots or do we have an offical vote? - brad __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com -- PHP Development Mailing List <http://www.php.net/> To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
