Zeev, If you find that GUI tools are not overwhelmingly better for C++, Java product development, that does weaken the case for php studios even more. Why so?
1. Conciseness of php php is a high level application development tool so the code is, or at least, should mostly consist of highly specific encapsulated business logic. This is relatively more suited to a general (possibly "application" progammable) text editor rather than a php-specific studio. 2. The other code php is mostly about integrating "other" code i.e. html/sql/Javascript/xml/pdf whatever. In the overall application these are just as important as php. The php studios seem to do a good job of bundling in sql and html tools but it's always going to be hard for one studio, however well designed, to cover the needs of several languages. 3. Maintenance vs Development Personally, I've never understood that there are distinct development and maintenance activities. Isn't maintainability the key quality issue for all code? And isn't the best way to ensure maintainability to make sure the developer maintains? In any case, php progamming is particularly likely to be mostly about maintenance. For all the right reasons: good match to business needs = more sensitivity to business needs = more changes; more robust applications = longer life = more changes; easy coding = easy changes = more changes; shorter development cycles = more prototyping = more changes. So there's lots of "maintenance" style work (i.e. small, short edits) relative to development. Once again this probably favours less structured development tools. 4. Unix Development Platform If my own development platform was Microsoft, I'm sure I'd need a development studio, if only to do all that opening and closing of windows. But if you can have X hundred windows open on K different desktops with G different tools, it isn't such an issue. 5. Testing on Live Servers Even with all these disincentives I'd still be very tempted to use a php development studio, especially for debugging, but the killer problem is how I test code. Typically, even unit testing is done on test domains/databases of live public servers. The advantage is that it greatly reduces the need for deployment/performance testing (and nasty last-minute deployment issues such as discovering you haven't got a live gd library with png). It also means it's very easy to get the end users/customers involved in testing early on and you don't have to worry about setting up access to lots of different platforms for third-parties e.g. html developers. The disadvantage is that there's always a firewall in the way, so it's not so easy, or desirable, to run back-door client connects to sql, debug or even ftp! (Before anyone jumps down my throat on security issues, why else do we have execution timeouts, user aborts, includes from outside document root etc., etc., unless it's to make this sort of thing possible? And isn't it better to have to focus on security right from the start of development?) I guess the bottom line is... Darned if I can see how anyone can make money out of php add-on tools, even top-notch development studios :( php is just too good! George P.S. On the other hand, if someone was asking for sponsorship to make 0.7 + 0.1 == 0.8, I'd get the cheque book out right away... Zeev Suraski wrote: > At 05:02 18/02/2002, Peter J. Schoenster wrote: > >Well, as you said, no point in arguing. Just that I think if someone > >really wants to develop they should learn some better tools than a > >GUI but it's a question of balance. > > That's quite an arguable point. I don't code PHP but C++ and Java, and I > can say that I'm much more productive using an advanced GUI (Visual C++, > IntelliJ IDEA) than I am using a text editor and aid tools. There are > still things I do in a shell (diffing, grepping, patching, even tiny text > edits), but to actually write big code portions, and/or refactor existing > code portions, IDE's give you tools that simple text editors just don't. > Of course, it's a matter of habits and taste, but saying that 'someone who > really wants to develop should learn some better tools than a GUI' is > simply bogus in my opinion. GUIs are better than text-mode tools in many > ways, and text-mode tools sometimes get the job done quicker than GUIs. A > good GUI would address >80% of your needs, and you can fill in the gap with > the tools you were used to. > > Zeev -- PHP General Mailing List (http://www.php.net/) To unsubscribe, visit: http://www.php.net/unsub.php
