Nice idea, but I don't think errant dram bits hunt and seek just Protel,
if the dram were faulty, I'd expect 2K (or any component of it) to dump at
least some of the time, also the bist would be likely to fail...

The majority of PC's though running at GHz frequencies still use either a
200 or 266MHz local bus and a 100/133Mhz memory bus, and thats tried and
tested.

Before I get flamed, I know there are some 400 FSB boards out there with 600
or even 800MHz memory (no idea how it works though), but we aint got one -
have you seen the memory prices for it!!!!

J.



-----Original Message-----
From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 19 November 2001 16:41
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)


> Explain why a fresh re-install of 2000 + sp2, then Protel +sp6 crashes on
> several operations, even on first run.
>
> Explain why printing on one machine with exactly the same graphics card,
> graphics drivers, print drivers etc. works fine. On the new one it does
not,
> if it prints at all, many entities are missing, especially outline boxes.
>
> So we've got the same files on the same everything, what's left?  Protel
is
> sensitive to PC hardware, surely not......

It's possible.  PC hardware can exhibit problems.  In all those MB of RAM,
if a few bits flake out, it can crash a program.  New PCs are on the
absolute bleeding edge, which means some blood (and sweat and tears) is
bound to be spilt somewhere.  If Protel is the largest app (with your design
file loaded) you run on that PC, it could be using an area of RAM that is
not fit for use.  Instead of running the latest 2 GHz P++, maybe you should
try it on an older, slower PC.  The most advanced PC I have right now is a
W2K/SP2 dual-PIII 1.0 GHz with 512MB PC133 and a Matrox G450 video card.
Rock stable - but then I haven't done any Protel jobs as huge as the one you
are doing.

Protel 99SE has plenty of bugs and quirks.  But no program, no matter how
good, can overcome a marginal, overclocked, metastable,
negative-timing-margin PC.

Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website:  www.bagotronix.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Morgan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2001 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel's Good/Bad points (WAS:Using 3D)


> The files in question were returned to Protel under NDA, they confirmed
the
> problems as reported and indicated that at present there was no fix.
>
> Sorry, but I can't transmit designs to the public, at least without NDA,
> thanks for the offer anyway.
>
> I can say that there are about:-
> 1100 components spread across two sides
> 1000 nets
> 10000 track segments (last time I talked to the guy doing the layout)
> 2450 vias
> 450 holes
> 6 layers
> Several silk and mech keepout layers etc.
> 5000 SMT pads
> 15 Polys on two layers
> .DDB runs at about 20-70Mb and lives on the same HDD as the program.
> All in a 10" x 8" board area
>
> In any case, Protel works on at least one machine here (if with some
> deficiencies) without crashing (too often). That eliminates user error and
> bad files (incidentally neither of which should EVER affect a well written
> program, I know, as well a hardware engineer I'm also a programmer).
>
> So far as the poly problem goes, the fix in that case it to set 'Auto
> Repour' to 'Never' and then use my 'Repour All Poly' server, available on
> the yahoo group, failing to do this results in some long waits!!
>
> Explain why a fresh re-install of 2000 + sp2, then Protel +sp6 crashes on
> several operations, even on first run.
>
> Explain why printing on one machine with exactly the same graphics card,
> graphics drivers, print drivers etc. works fine. On the new one it does
not,
> if it prints at all, many entities are missing, especially outline boxes.
>
> (Note I've seen the latter on several past Protel installs with certain
> graphics cards, notably ATI)
>
> So we've got the same files on the same everything, what's left?  Protel
is
> sensitive to PC hardware, surely not......
>
> J.
>
> Jason Morgan - Senior Development Engineer
> CITEL Technologies Ltd.


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