On 04/21/2017 10:13 PM, pixel fairy wrote:
> havent tried this yet, but you can stream from ps4 to windows (or 
> mac), the requirements are pretty light and imply no need for 
> accelerated graphics on the client end. please mention me if you try
>  this and post back to the group. i have a ps4, but still working on
>  getting qubes running.
> 
> if your willing to get a separate system for games, the nintendo 
> switch looks pretty nice on paper. havent seen one in person yet.

There are several streaming solutions. Steam does it natively [1],
Nvidia has something [2], and there's an OSS implementation of that
Nvidia thing [3].
I, personally, would rather get some additional computerhardware instead
of a gaming console. More versatile and reusable later on.


On 04/22/2017 03:02 AM, Grzesiek Chodzicki wrote:
> IIRC secondary GPU passthrough won't work on laptops because the 
> discrete GPU is a render device and not a full display device (it's 
> not directly connected to the laptop display or the video outs, instead
> it's framebuffer is copied to the framebuffer of the integrated GPU that
> handles the actualy physical displays) Copying the framebuffer between
> VMs with minimal latency sounds challenging.

That's bad news. Thanks for the hint.
I suppose copying the framebuffer still is more reasonable than
streaming the game over ethernet, which, surprisingly, works quite good
with [1] to [3].

>  Although I remember one guy
> on this group that successfully passed through an AMD GPU to a Windows
> VM and was able to play games in the VM. This was a desktop PC though.

Yes, I remember that too. He installed quemu in DOM0 for this, which is
too much of a security compromise for me.


On 04/22/2017 12:57 PM, Mathew Evans wrote:
> Biggest issue that limits you with nvidia is the fact that drivers
> detect that it is running in a VM / HVM etc.. It is possible to get
> nvidia drivers installed into Qubes (dont recommend it) and then you
> can pass a prime device through to a app VM with little issue. Ive
> done this for doing cuba-cat for password cracking and it works but
> you wont get any output on the screen at all. (goto dump to file)

You mean you installed the nvidia drivers in DOM0? Yes, I'd avoid that
on my regular system.

> Would love to play games on Qubes though. implenetation of OpenGL for
> the Qubes GFX driver would go a very very long way.

I tried to force software rendering in the VM, no luck even with that.

There are projects which split the opengl driver into a local proxy-like
part and a remote actually-rendering part, I found at least three [4] of
them. Maybe that would be usable? The rendering part would have to run
in DOM0 though, and I'm not sure if we could trim it down enough to
trust it though.
Heck, even just connecting to the rendering part via network would be a
good start I guess.


So, I'm not even sure what is technically possible, with 3D acceleration
in a VM (from GPU passthrough or rendering-proxy) without compromising
security of the system? There's thunderbolt for external pci too. Is any
of those ideas even possible?


Ente


[1] http://store.steampowered.com/streaming/
[2] https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/shield/games/gamestream/
[3]
https://github.com/moonlight-stream/moonlight-docs/wiki/Moonlight-Overview

[4]
https://www.mesa3d.org/osmesa.html
https://arrayfire.com/remote-off-screen-rendering-with-opengl/
http://www.virtualgl.org/About/Introduction

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