Looks like it is a bit of a blind way. To use the reasonably secure OS without 
possibility to use it on the reasonably secure HW, is an issue which needs to 
be addressed a bit. I originally guessed that Qubes would run on the RYF 
devices well, and I am quite surprised it doesn't (doesnt it?). Is there any 
strong issue which prevents Qubes to function with RYF devices? 

Am I missing something on the assumption that RYF devices, with disabled 
IME-AMT known security hole, with the coreboot  instead of BIOS and so on, are 
more secure-potential than the non-RYFs? 

I need a working laptop. Desktop is not an option. 


Sep 17, 2018, 11:54 PM by [email protected]:

> On 09/16/2018 02:51 AM, 'awokd' via qubes-users wrote:
>
>> On Sat, September 15, 2018 10:30 am, >> [email protected] 
>> <mailto:[email protected]>>>  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, during my email conversation with the Todd Weaver
>>>
>
> That liar comes out of nowhere with his super slick marketing and sets
> the computing freedom movement back 10 years.
>
> At first I thought it was just being naive but now as he persists it
> seems more like malice.
>
> puri.junk does NOT respect you, it is fully blobbed and the ME is not at
> all disabled.
>
> Todd weaver is a lying fraudster.
>
>>> in the
>>> pre-IME-disabled time, he told me they will fully disable the IME and AMT
>>> within next week. After about a week they announced they did just that.
>>> Are this links a lie?
>>> https://puri.sm/posts/measuring-the-intel-me-to-create-a-more-secure-compu 
>>> <https://puri.sm/posts/measuring-the-intel-me-to-create-a-more-secure-compu>
>>> ter/
>>> <>>> 
>>> https://puri.sm/posts/measuring-the-intel-me-to-create-a-more-secure-com 
>>> <https://puri.sm/posts/measuring-the-intel-me-to-create-a-more-secure-com>
>>> puter/>
>>> https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-mana 
>>> <https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-mana>
>>> gement-engine/
>>> <>>> 
>>> https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-man 
>>> <https://puri.sm/posts/purism-librem-laptops-completely-disable-intel-man>
>>> agement-engine/>
>>>
>>
>> "Lie" depends on your definition of "completely". Skylake onwards
>> processors can have much of ME disabled. I believe Purism with Heads and a
>> handful of other manufacturers are using the technique here:
>> http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html 
>> <http://blog.ptsecurity.com/2017/08/disabling-intel-me.html>>> , but as you 
>> can
>> see there are still some modules required for initialization before the
>> HAP bit takes effect and skips the remainder. Additionally, there is an
>> FSP blob needed for init. Currently shipping AMD CPUs are no better.
>>
>
> Skylake kernel still runs, that is not disabled and there is more than
> enough ability to play dirty tricks like SMM rootkits or what not.
>
> HAP is asking politely.
>
>>> Talking about alternatives: how the Qubes 4.0 stand with RYF certified
>>> X200? Like for example this one: >>> 
>>> https://tehnoetic.com/laptops/tet-x200s 
>>> <https://tehnoetic.com/laptops/tet-x200s>
>>> <>>> https://tehnoetic.com/laptops/tet-x200s 
>>> <https://tehnoetic.com/laptops/tet-x200s>>>> > and others like T400 and 
>>> T500,
>>> which can be found there as well. Working well? Any issues known? Thank
>>> you
>>>
>>
>> At present, RYF has not certified any laptops with hardware capable of
>> running Qubes 4.0, but there are a couple older AMDs that can. A scale of
>> hardware openness/owner control from most to least would be something
>> like:
>>
>> 10: OpenPOWER, RYF certified x86 with all blobs replaced- Qubes 4.0 can't
>> run on either
>>
>
> Since you mention power and there aren't currently any laptops do you
> mean laptops or desktops? In terms of desktops there are a variety that
> qubes 4.0 can run on.
>
> The future is POWER for all...
>
>> 8: older AMD like A10-5750M- a couple blobs required but Qubes 4.0 works
>> on these and the rest listed
>> 6: pre-Skylake Intel with ME/HAP tweaks- a few more blobs and 2 ME modules
>> required
>> 4: Skylake+ Intel with ME/HAP tweaks, AMD Ryzen with PSP disabled in UEFI
>> config- more blobs and modules required
>>
>
> That doesn't disable it! you are simply asking nicely for it to shut off
> and hoping that it does so. It is not at all equivilant to say pre-core
> intel systems where one really could disable it or even better one that
> doesn't have any black boxes like the talos.
>
>> 0: Intel/AMD x86 with no tweaks- most shipping volume today
>>
>> ARM (& possibly RISC) is a special case in that the integrator can decide
>> where on the scale they want to deliver their product, but neither support
>> Qubes 4.0.
>>
>
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