Young believers everywhere are committing the worldly sin called suicide.
This does not mean that I am not going to talk about it. The problem with
guns today is that no one wants to talk about it and parents ARE NOT talking
about it with their children. If you want the problem to go away, educate
the children. Johnny shoots Billy because he wants to see what will happen.
If Johnny had been educated, he would know what would happen and not be
curious any more. Educate, Educate, Educate.
Keith Brooks
-----Original Message-----
From: Jeff Mayhew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 05 23 00 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: Re: [RR] *About Rangers and guns.. WATCH-IT!
>Question:
>
>What do guns and swords have to to with the Gospel of Jesus Christ? Is
>this topic going to get people saved, or edify existing believers? Why
>are we as Commanders wasting time discussing things of this world instead
>of discussing the things of God?
>
>I think this whole gun debate has gotten out of hand and we need to find
>a new topic to discuss. Who's with me?
>
>
>Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew
>Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA
>Southern New England District
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>On Tue, 23 May 2000 08:41:15 -0600 Soaring Golden Eagle
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> There is a need for balance here, as in many areas.
>>
>> Jesus both commanded that the disciples arm themselves and a few
>> hours
>> later rebuked them for inappropriate use of those arms. Paul the
>> Apostle
>> both stated that authorities don't bear a sword in vain (Romans
>> 13:4) and
>> clearly stated that our battle isn't against flesh and blood, but
>> against
>> spiritual wickedness in heavenly places, and prescribed spiritual
>> weapons
>> and armor (Ephesians 6:10-20).
>>
>> The warning against killing with the sword is repeated in Revelation
>> 13:10.
>>
>> Let's take another look at the Scripture quoted below. Jesus told
>> his
>> disciples at that time (not as a command for all time) to get a
>> sword, even
>> if they had to sell some clothes to buy it. Jesus never told them to
>> attack
>> anyone with it, just to have it. Apparently, the sword was for a
>> deterrent
>> against attack, not something to actually use to maim or kill people
>> with.
>> The missionary Nate Saint had a loaded pistol when he was speared to
>> death
>> by the people he came to preach to, but refused to shoot them, even
>> though
>> they speared him to death. I think he had the idea. The man who
>> speared him
>> was later saved, and became good friends with the family of the
>> missionaries he killed. Indeed, Jesus rebuked Peter for cutting off
>> Malchus' ear, and healed the ear. Note that in the context, Jesus
>> also
>> commanded his disciples to make sure they had money with them
>> instead of
>> relying on the supernatural provision He told them to use, before.
>> The time
>> they were going through was like a dark tunnel, supernaturally, as
>> Jesus
>> allowed Himself to be crucified, descended to Hell, took the keys of
>> Death,
>> led captivity captive, rose again, and ascended to our Father. On
>> the day
>> of Pentecost following this glorious occasion, Jesus sent the Holy
>> Spirit,
>> and ended this dark tunnel forever. Therefore, I don't believe that
>> Jesus'
>> command to his disciples to own a sword is binding, today. We can
>> rely on
>> the supernatural protection and provision of God. On the other hand,
>> there
>> is certainly nothing wrong with owning a weapon as long as you don't
>> commit
>> a crime with it or even use it to resist arrest at the wrong time.
>>
>> Just to keep things in perspective, in the New Testament, there are
>> about
>> 40 references to "sword" and I think more of them refer to the Word
>> of God
>> than to a physical weapon.
>>
>>
>> At 14:11 5/23/2000 +0000, Brian Wood wrote:
>> >Stefan
>> >
>> >I did not take the verses out of context. I was aware of the later
>> >verse but chose to omit it for greater emphasis. Jesus seems to be
>> >saying to the disciples that a time when they would not be able to
>> >rely on God's provision and protection was imminent. Even with the
>> >two swords Jesus did not tell them to get rid of them. I believe
>> that
>> >the time of Jesus' arrest was different. The disciples were not
>> under
>> >threat only Jesus himself and he had no intention of resisting (and
>> >had no need of weapons as, according to John's Gospel, all the
>> >soldiers fell down when He said, "I am He"). Also, the disciples
>> >were fighting against the "authorities". I would surmise that Jesus
>> >was advocating the use of swords against robbers etc.
>> >
>> >There are times when we are definitely "commissioned" and times
>> >when we are left to use our own resources. I have heard that
>> >preached on more than one occasion and Corrie Ten Boom said
>> >the same in one of her books.
>> >
>> >Anyone else care to comment?
>> >
>> >BoW
>> >
>> >On 23 May 00, at 10:22, Stefan Fischer wrote:
>> >
>> > > Hi Brian,
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > > You are not correct in what you say. Below are two verses from
>> Luke
>> > > > 22
>> > > >
>> > > > 35 And He said to them, When I sent you without purse and
>> wallet
>> > > > and sandals, did you lack anything? And they said, Nothing. 36
>> And
>> > > > He said to them, But now, he who has a purse, let him take it,
>> > > and
>> > > > likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him sell his
>> > > > garment and buy one.
>> > >
>> > > Hey but you can't take these two verses out of their context.
>> Verse 38
>> > > says:
>> > >
>> > > 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He
>> said to
>> > > them, It is enough.
>> > >
>> > > After that Jesus and the disciples go to Getsemaneh. When the
>> soldiers
>> > > come and want to arrest Jesus the Bible says:
>> > >
>> > > 49 And those around Him seeing what was about to occur, they
>> said to
>> > > him, Lord, shall we strike with the sword? 50 And one of them
>> struck
>> > > the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. 51
>> And
>> > > Jesus answered and said, Let it go until now. And touching his
>> ear, He
>> > > healed him.
>> > >
>> > > If you read the same story in Matthew 26 (This is the verse
>> Simson
>> > > quoted from.) it says:
>> > >
>> > > 51 And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out
>> his
>> > > hand and drew his sword, and he struck a servant of the high
>> priest
>> > > and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, put up your
>> sword
>> > > again into its place; for all who take the sword shall perish
>> with a
>> > > sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father, and
>> He
>> > > shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of angels?
>>
>> Michael Paul Johnson
>> aka Soaring Golden Eagle
>> PO Box 1151, Longmont CO 80502-1151, USA
>> Rocky Mountain outpost 207, New Creation Church
>> Jesus Christ is Lord!
>>
>>
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