Okay, but what do guns have to to with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew
Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA
Southern New England District
On Tue, 23 May 2000 10:43:58 -0700 Duane Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
>
> *You can change the subject anytime to anything you desire<G>
>
> But the point I'm trying to make is to "re-think" the role of
> Leadership
> of the boys with regard to the topic of guns.. *this may get long<G>
>
> There is a well published FCF picture painted by Cdr.Fred Deaver
> of a young Ranger aiming a black powder rifle, and Cdr.Fred looking
> over his shoulder... This "picture" is on the patch for the
> up-comming
> FCF National Rendezvous...
>
> *Sometimes the "vision" of Commander is summed up in only teaching
> marksmanship, I hope it becomes more....
>
> *What I want to propose is that the "target" we aim at in that
> image..becomes
> the
> "Mission Statement" of Royal Rangers- "Reach-Teach-Keep Boys for
> Christ"
> and we re-examine the role Adult men play as
> Instructors-Teachers-Mentors
> and Male role models...
>
> Ranger leaders assume they must "teach" or "tell the answers" to the
> boys for
> them to "learn"...
> valuable skills that are held by the Adult leader- The RR LYC tells
> us that
> "lecture" is
> the least effective way to communicate with boys... and their are in
> fact
> many pitfalls
> to a "Adult-leader-led" presentation.
>
>
> *If the goal was for Adult Men to become important.. then requiring
> everyone to listen when Commander speaks would be the regular
> business of the
>
> Ranger meeting! A "Man" would stand and bark: "Hey! Listen up! I'm
> going to
> only say this ONCE!"
>
> *That's effective... That's how lots of MEN were trained on the job
> and in
> the Military.
> However- the "Mission" of Royal Rangers is not to make soldiers out
> of boys
> or
> develop a fear based system of learning, it's *Reach-Teach and Keep!
>
> *But if the GOAL is to "give away" wisdom.. encourage learning and
> teamwork,
> then the Leadership task changes to finding a way to increase the
> impact of
> a message into the hearts of the boys, where they are....right there
> "just as
> I am..."
>
> You can do this by increasing "Honor" and decreasing
> "anger-criticizum and
> threats"
>
> You do that by "joining" the boys in what they learn..and "seeing'
> what they
> see by
> being there with them. I suggest you invite guests as needed, and
> prefere the
> boys
> to you to stand and MC the meeting... that's the job for Sr.guide
> anyway!
>
> *Perhaps-!!
>
> Guns in the Outpost are "Triggers for Men to un-load pent-up
> doctrines of
> paramilitary thinking" (*God help me as I stand in the middle of a
> pond of
> thin ice!)
>
> They hold the potential to throw us into paths that have us dwell on
> "the
> gravest extreme"
> or situational ethics of the use of lethal force... or underground
> survivalist mentalities
> that have NO PLACE IN ROYAL RANGERS!
>
> (*Illistration- of my thoughts...)
>
> I teach "Toolcraft"-
>
> ...and at Powwow we brought axes-saws-knives-wedges and splitting
> mauls,
> we built an "ax yard" put up a "blood circle perimeter" and placed
> that in
> the camp.
>
> What I found was that I as leader always "worried" what the boys
> were doing
> over there with a sharp ax! *They were attracted to the axe yard,
> and were
> "pounding wood" just to pound wood! *There's nothing wrong with that
> *if
> we needed more split firewood or stuff cut up... But in practical
> application-
> I found that by putting away in the trailer the axe-hatchet-shovel
> the
> over-all
> "Peace" in the camp was elevated! *The worry factor was lowered and
> the boys
> en-joy the events planned for that time instead of "pounding
> wood"....
>
> *When we needed a axe-yard job done I sent a patrol guide with the
> Ranger to
> supervise him and assist as needed.. This used the "Buddy system"
> had 2 deep
> leadership and a "accountability system" to keep the task on track
> and avoid
> the
> pitfall of playing or dangerous "sky-larking"......
>
>
> *I found that my best tools were the BOYS!
>
> How do you sharpen a Ranger? *You have him work with you in a
> practical
> hands-on manner" Leader-boy.... in that way BOTH become sharp!
>
> *Now if you desire sharp leaders- use a boy to instruct-Teach-Lead
> another
> boy... and BOTH gain character and skill! *How do build sharp
> patrols?
> Have the Patrol guide become the *primary path of communication to
> back
> his title as leader... and have him be a real leader to the patrol!
>
>
> *TYING IT ALL TOGATHER!
> ======================
>
>
> *Teaching skills can become "sharpening tools" for developing boy
> leaders if
> we plan ahead and set the goals of guiding the outpost to the
> *mission
> statement
> in everything we do.
>
> Marksmanship- Wepon's saftey-Hunting may be our "intrest" or
> passion...
> But our job is guideing the Outpost to the *mission statement.
> -*CHRIST!
>
> We "Better" serve the Lord and our Rangers by inviteing
> "para-professionals"
> to lecture the outpost on the subject of guns.. and to stand with
> the boys,
> and
> *reflect on their "recievers of knoledge" (LTC section 5) as to what
> they
> question
> in reaction to the presentation... *If you desire to be a real
> Christian
> role model-
> then you will treasure the respect you gain by becomeing moderate in
> all
> things,
> thougtfull and balanced....
>
> Your calm demenor will allow you to gently shape or move the boys
> closer to
> a personal relationship with god, if you act in this mannor... being
> brief,
> being
> scritptural and being on target.
>
> The goal is to move the Outpost ahead along the path to achievement
> and
> our better nature, As I said: removeing the tools from the ax yard
> allowed
> us to live in peace and safety, and haveing the tools there allowed
> us to
> work,
> teach,instruct and guide the boys to a better place...
>
> *Guns are such that the Parent and Pastor should be briefed with the
> lesson
> plan,
> goal and paramiters of the conversation you intend to pursue... Be
> wise and
> use
> your resources, *Build the kingdom!
>
>
> Cdr.Duane -=A=-
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Mayhew wrote:
>
> > Question:
> >
> > What do guns and swords have to to with the Gospel of Jesus
> Christ? Is
> > this topic going to get people saved, or edify existing believers?
> Why
> > are we as Commanders wasting time discussing things of this world
> instead
> > of discussing the things of God?
> >
> > I think this whole gun debate has gotten out of hand and we need
> to find
> > a new topic to discuss. Who's with me?
> >
> > Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew
> > Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA
> > Southern New England District
> >
> > On Tue, 23 May 2000 08:41:15 -0600 Soaring Golden Eagle
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > There is a need for balance here, as in many areas.
> > >
> > > Jesus both commanded that the disciples arm themselves and a few
> > > hours
> > > later rebuked them for inappropriate use of those arms. Paul the
> > > Apostle
> > > both stated that authorities don't bear a sword in vain (Romans
> > > 13:4) and
> > > clearly stated that our battle isn't against flesh and blood, but
> > > against
> > > spiritual wickedness in heavenly places, and prescribed spiritual
> > > weapons
> > > and armor (Ephesians 6:10-20).
> > >
> > > The warning against killing with the sword is repeated in
> Revelation
> > > 13:10.
> > >
> > > Let's take another look at the Scripture quoted below. Jesus told
> > > his
> > > disciples at that time (not as a command for all time) to get a
> > > sword, even
> > > if they had to sell some clothes to buy it. Jesus never told
> them to
> > > attack
> > > anyone with it, just to have it. Apparently, the sword was for a
> > > deterrent
> > > against attack, not something to actually use to maim or kill
> people
> > > with.
> > > The missionary Nate Saint had a loaded pistol when he was
> speared to
> > > death
> > > by the people he came to preach to, but refused to shoot them,
> even
> > > though
> > > they speared him to death. I think he had the idea. The man who
> > > speared him
> > > was later saved, and became good friends with the family of the
> > > missionaries he killed. Indeed, Jesus rebuked Peter for cutting
> off
> > > Malchus' ear, and healed the ear. Note that in the context, Jesus
> > > also
> > > commanded his disciples to make sure they had money with them
> > > instead of
> > > relying on the supernatural provision He told them to use,
> before.
> > > The time
> > > they were going through was like a dark tunnel, supernaturally,
> as
> > > Jesus
> > > allowed Himself to be crucified, descended to Hell, took the
> keys of
> > > Death,
> > > led captivity captive, rose again, and ascended to our Father. On
> > > the day
> > > of Pentecost following this glorious occasion, Jesus sent the
> Holy
> > > Spirit,
> > > and ended this dark tunnel forever. Therefore, I don't believe
> that
> > > Jesus'
> > > command to his disciples to own a sword is binding, today. We can
> > > rely on
> > > the supernatural protection and provision of God. On the other
> hand,
> > > there
> > > is certainly nothing wrong with owning a weapon as long as you
> don't
> > > commit
> > > a crime with it or even use it to resist arrest at the wrong
> time.
> > >
> > > Just to keep things in perspective, in the New Testament, there
> are
> > > about
> > > 40 references to "sword" and I think more of them refer to the
> Word
> > > of God
> > > than to a physical weapon.
> > >
> > >
> > > At 14:11 5/23/2000 +0000, Brian Wood wrote:
> > > >Stefan
> > > >
> > > >I did not take the verses out of context. I was aware of the
> later
> > > >verse but chose to omit it for greater emphasis. Jesus seems to
> be
> > > >saying to the disciples that a time when they would not be able
> to
> > > >rely on God's provision and protection was imminent. Even with
> the
> > > >two swords Jesus did not tell them to get rid of them. I believe
> > > that
> > > >the time of Jesus' arrest was different. The disciples were not
> > > under
> > > >threat only Jesus himself and he had no intention of resisting
> (and
> > > >had no need of weapons as, according to John's Gospel, all the
> > > >soldiers fell down when He said, "I am He"). Also, the disciples
> > > >were fighting against the "authorities". I would surmise that
> Jesus
> > > >was advocating the use of swords against robbers etc.
> > > >
> > > >There are times when we are definitely "commissioned" and times
> > > >when we are left to use our own resources. I have heard that
> > > >preached on more than one occasion and Corrie Ten Boom said
> > > >the same in one of her books.
> > > >
> > > >Anyone else care to comment?
> > > >
> > > >BoW
> > > >
> > > >On 23 May 00, at 10:22, Stefan Fischer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi Brian,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > You are not correct in what you say. Below are two verses
> from
> > > Luke
> > > > > > 22
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 35 And He said to them, When I sent you without purse and
> > > wallet
> > > > > > and sandals, did you lack anything? And they said,
> Nothing. 36
> > > And
> > > > > > He said to them, But now, he who has a purse, let him take
> it,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him sell
> his
> > > > > > garment and buy one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hey but you can't take these two verses out of their context.
> > > Verse 38
> > > > > says:
> > > > >
> > > > > 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And He
> > > said to
> > > > > them, It is enough.
> > > > >
> > > > > After that Jesus and the disciples go to Getsemaneh. When the
> > > soldiers
> > > > > come and want to arrest Jesus the Bible says:
> > > > >
> > > > > 49 And those around Him seeing what was about to occur, they
> > > said to
> > > > > him, Lord, shall we strike with the sword? 50 And one of
> them
> > > struck
> > > > > the servant of the high priest and cut off his right ear. 51
> > > And
> > > > > Jesus answered and said, Let it go until now. And touching
> his
> > > ear, He
> > > > > healed him.
> > > > >
> > > > > If you read the same story in Matthew 26 (This is the verse
> > > Simson
> > > > > quoted from.) it says:
> > > > >
> > > > > 51 And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched
> out
> > > his
> > > > > hand and drew his sword, and he struck a servant of the high
> > > priest
> > > > > and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, put up your
> > > sword
> > > > > again into its place; for all who take the sword shall perish
> > > with a
> > > > > sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot now pray to My Father,
> and
> > > He
> > > > > shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of angels?
> > >
> > > Michael Paul Johnson
> > > aka Soaring Golden Eagle
> > > PO Box 1151, Longmont CO 80502-1151, USA
> > > Rocky Mountain outpost 207, New Creation Church
> > > Jesus Christ is Lord!
> > >
> > >
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