Jeff Mayhew wrote: > Okay. Let's all think of a new topic. This gun issue has been beat to > death. Does anyone have any good news about anything that God has been > doing in your Outpost or church? *Take a few asprin and tell me what you thought about my words? I thought you might be saying that our job is *only to promote the gospel of Jesus Christ, and might question why guns were a topic of intrest to boys as well as men. If you had asked that I would point out that the awards in Pioneers are first a powderhorn, and Bowie knife a Tomahawk and a Long Rifle<G> *In fact Guns and shooting sports has a direct link to Royal Rangers through FCF involvement in Black Powder shooting and instruction by the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association. Instruction as a ranger safety officer is given at the FCF National Rendezvou held at eagle Rock, Mo this comming July. As a wilderness member I own several rifles and enjoy shooting-plinking and collecting various guns, both modern and primitive. *But I also treasure my job as a Ranger Commander- and want so much for the boys I've met to be blessed, by our meeting and pray the the millstone spoken of in matt:18 is not my legacy. *Because I care for the "mission" and improvement of the "program and hence the ministry" of Royal Rangers.. I'm willing to yeild my "passion and intrest" in guns as a hobby for a prudent reference to "marksmanship" or Gun safety as portrayed in the NRA "Eddie Eagle" series... further.. I'm willing to even not bring a gun to church if it in anyway might become a stumbleing block to another. I'm intrested to see if a kindred spirit is to be found or cultured by this conversation<G> The "Good News" in my church is that perhaps the lessons taught in teamwork and leadership did have a positive effect in the life of the church, when for a time- Royal Rangers was seen as a filler for Wed. night or a arm of the Childrens ministry only. My view is that we are inguaged in a vital ministry to emergeing minds and hearts and should serve the best food on our table, in word and deed. How about that? -=A=- > > > Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew > Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA > Southern New England District > > On Tue, 23 May 2000 11:13:19 -0700 Duane Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > writes: > > > > > > Jeff Mayhew wrote: > > > > > Okay, but what do guns have to to with the Gospel of Jesus Christ? > > > > I'm going to answer you as I would a Ranger.... I hope you follow, > > agreeing with what you can and asking reflective questions as I try > > to > > council.. > > > > There are 4 Gold points to the Ranger emblem.. > > > > Mental > > Physical > > Spiritual > > Social > > > > Our relationship with Christ, and the Gospel of peace is for this > > life > > and the life to come. With reguard to the gospel, it reaches us in > > our > > hearts > > our minds our bodies and our soul... *This life also is our mission, > > to > > tarry and live and be ready for anything... > > > > To everything there is a season, a time to plant and a time to > > reap..ect. > > there is a time and a purpose for everything under heaven. > > > > Without a doubt- *Guns are within the domain of this life and allways > > found at critical times of History as well as our culture.. *So are > > automobiles > > and aircraft. Royal rangers has merits to explore these paths to > > understanding and > > knoledge. Our lives on earth require us to find work and build > > skills to > > pay our way and feed our families. > > > > Royal Rangers attemps to bridge this life with the *spiritual life in > > Christ. > > > > It's about our "perspective" when we view an object be it a gun or a > > car.. > > and the choices we make in useing it for good or for evil. > > > > *I'm going to stop and listen now to what you have to say..in > > reflection<G> > > > > Love yah- > > Cdr.Duane -=A=- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew > > > Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA > > > Southern New England District > > > > > > On Tue, 23 May 2000 10:43:58 -0700 Duane Wheeler > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > writes: > > > > > > > > *You can change the subject anytime to anything you desire<G> > > > > > > > > But the point I'm trying to make is to "re-think" the role of > > > > Leadership > > > > of the boys with regard to the topic of guns.. *this may get > > long<G> > > > > > > > > There is a well published FCF picture painted by Cdr.Fred Deaver > > > > of a young Ranger aiming a black powder rifle, and Cdr.Fred > > looking > > > > over his shoulder... This "picture" is on the patch for the > > > > up-comming > > > > FCF National Rendezvous... > > > > > > > > *Sometimes the "vision" of Commander is summed up in only > > teaching > > > > marksmanship, I hope it becomes more.... > > > > > > > > *What I want to propose is that the "target" we aim at in that > > > > image..becomes > > > > the > > > > "Mission Statement" of Royal Rangers- "Reach-Teach-Keep Boys for > > > > Christ" > > > > and we re-examine the role Adult men play as > > > > Instructors-Teachers-Mentors > > > > and Male role models... > > > > > > > > Ranger leaders assume they must "teach" or "tell the answers" to > > the > > > > boys for > > > > them to "learn"... > > > > valuable skills that are held by the Adult leader- The RR LYC > > tells > > > > us that > > > > "lecture" is > > > > the least effective way to communicate with boys... and their > > are in > > > > fact > > > > many pitfalls > > > > to a "Adult-leader-led" presentation. > > > > > > > > > > > > *If the goal was for Adult Men to become important.. then > > requiring > > > > everyone to listen when Commander speaks would be the regular > > > > business of the > > > > > > > > Ranger meeting! A "Man" would stand and bark: "Hey! Listen up! > > I'm > > > > going to > > > > only say this ONCE!" > > > > > > > > *That's effective... That's how lots of MEN were trained on the > > job > > > > and in > > > > the Military. > > > > However- the "Mission" of Royal Rangers is not to make soldiers > > out > > > > of boys > > > > or > > > > develop a fear based system of learning, it's *Reach-Teach and > > Keep! > > > > > > > > *But if the GOAL is to "give away" wisdom.. encourage learning > > and > > > > teamwork, > > > > then the Leadership task changes to finding a way to increase the > > > > impact of > > > > a message into the hearts of the boys, where they are....right > > there > > > > "just as > > > > I am..." > > > > > > > > You can do this by increasing "Honor" and decreasing > > > > "anger-criticizum and > > > > threats" > > > > > > > > You do that by "joining" the boys in what they learn..and > > "seeing' > > > > what they > > > > see by > > > > being there with them. I suggest you invite guests as needed, and > > > > prefere the > > > > boys > > > > to you to stand and MC the meeting... that's the job for Sr.guide > > > > anyway! > > > > > > > > *Perhaps-!! > > > > > > > > Guns in the Outpost are "Triggers for Men to un-load pent-up > > > > doctrines of > > > > paramilitary thinking" (*God help me as I stand in the middle > > of a > > > > pond of > > > > thin ice!) > > > > > > > > They hold the potential to throw us into paths that have us > > dwell on > > > > "the > > > > gravest extreme" > > > > or situational ethics of the use of lethal force... or > > underground > > > > survivalist mentalities > > > > that have NO PLACE IN ROYAL RANGERS! > > > > > > > > (*Illistration- of my thoughts...) > > > > > > > > I teach "Toolcraft"- > > > > > > > > ...and at Powwow we brought axes-saws-knives-wedges and splitting > > > > mauls, > > > > we built an "ax yard" put up a "blood circle perimeter" and > > placed > > > > that in > > > > the camp. > > > > > > > > What I found was that I as leader always "worried" what the boys > > > > were doing > > > > over there with a sharp ax! *They were attracted to the axe yard, > > > > and were > > > > "pounding wood" just to pound wood! *There's nothing wrong with > > that > > > > *if > > > > we needed more split firewood or stuff cut up... But in practical > > > > application- > > > > I found that by putting away in the trailer the > > axe-hatchet-shovel > > > > the > > > > over-all > > > > "Peace" in the camp was elevated! *The worry factor was lowered > > and > > > > the boys > > > > en-joy the events planned for that time instead of "pounding > > > > wood".... > > > > > > > > *When we needed a axe-yard job done I sent a patrol guide with > > the > > > > Ranger to > > > > supervise him and assist as needed.. This used the "Buddy system" > > > > had 2 deep > > > > leadership and a "accountability system" to keep the task on > > track > > > > and avoid > > > > the > > > > pitfall of playing or dangerous "sky-larking"...... > > > > > > > > > > > > *I found that my best tools were the BOYS! > > > > > > > > How do you sharpen a Ranger? *You have him work with you in a > > > > practical > > > > hands-on manner" Leader-boy.... in that way BOTH become sharp! > > > > > > > > *Now if you desire sharp leaders- use a boy to > > instruct-Teach-Lead > > > > another > > > > boy... and BOTH gain character and skill! *How do build sharp > > > > patrols? > > > > Have the Patrol guide become the *primary path of communication > > to > > > > back > > > > his title as leader... and have him be a real leader to the > > patrol! > > > > > > > > > > > > *TYING IT ALL TOGATHER! > > > > ====================== > > > > > > > > > > > > *Teaching skills can become "sharpening tools" for developing boy > > > > leaders if > > > > we plan ahead and set the goals of guiding the outpost to the > > > > *mission > > > > statement > > > > in everything we do. > > > > > > > > Marksmanship- Wepon's saftey-Hunting may be our "intrest" or > > > > passion... > > > > But our job is guideing the Outpost to the *mission statement. > > > > -*CHRIST! > > > > > > > > We "Better" serve the Lord and our Rangers by inviteing > > > > "para-professionals" > > > > to lecture the outpost on the subject of guns.. and to stand with > > > > the boys, > > > > and > > > > *reflect on their "recievers of knoledge" (LTC section 5) as to > > what > > > > they > > > > question > > > > in reaction to the presentation... *If you desire to be a real > > > > Christian > > > > role model- > > > > then you will treasure the respect you gain by becomeing > > moderate in > > > > all > > > > things, > > > > thougtfull and balanced.... > > > > > > > > Your calm demenor will allow you to gently shape or move the boys > > > > closer to > > > > a personal relationship with god, if you act in this mannor... > > being > > > > brief, > > > > being > > > > scritptural and being on target. > > > > > > > > The goal is to move the Outpost ahead along the path to > > achievement > > > > and > > > > our better nature, As I said: removeing the tools from the ax > > yard > > > > allowed > > > > us to live in peace and safety, and haveing the tools there > > allowed > > > > us to > > > > work, > > > > teach,instruct and guide the boys to a better place... > > > > > > > > *Guns are such that the Parent and Pastor should be briefed with > > the > > > > lesson > > > > plan, > > > > goal and paramiters of the conversation you intend to pursue... > > Be > > > > wise and > > > > use > > > > your resources, *Build the kingdom! > > > > > > > > > > > > Cdr.Duane -=A=- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeff Mayhew wrote: > > > > > > > > > Question: > > > > > > > > > > What do guns and swords have to to with the Gospel of Jesus > > > > Christ? Is > > > > > this topic going to get people saved, or edify existing > > believers? > > > > Why > > > > > are we as Commanders wasting time discussing things of this > > world > > > > instead > > > > > of discussing the things of God? > > > > > > > > > > I think this whole gun debate has gotten out of hand and we > > need > > > > to find > > > > > a new topic to discuss. Who's with me? > > > > > > > > > > Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew > > > > > Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA > > > > > Southern New England District > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, 23 May 2000 08:41:15 -0600 Soaring Golden Eagle > > > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > > > > There is a need for balance here, as in many areas. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jesus both commanded that the disciples arm themselves and a > > few > > > > > > hours > > > > > > later rebuked them for inappropriate use of those arms. Paul > > the > > > > > > Apostle > > > > > > both stated that authorities don't bear a sword in vain > > (Romans > > > > > > 13:4) and > > > > > > clearly stated that our battle isn't against flesh and > > blood, but > > > > > > against > > > > > > spiritual wickedness in heavenly places, and prescribed > > spiritual > > > > > > weapons > > > > > > and armor (Ephesians 6:10-20). > > > > > > > > > > > > The warning against killing with the sword is repeated in > > > > Revelation > > > > > > 13:10. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let's take another look at the Scripture quoted below. Jesus > > told > > > > > > his > > > > > > disciples at that time (not as a command for all time) to > > get a > > > > > > sword, even > > > > > > if they had to sell some clothes to buy it. Jesus never told > > > > them to > > > > > > attack > > > > > > anyone with it, just to have it. Apparently, the sword was > > for a > > > > > > deterrent > > > > > > against attack, not something to actually use to maim or kill > > > > people > > > > > > with. > > > > > > The missionary Nate Saint had a loaded pistol when he was > > > > speared to > > > > > > death > > > > > > by the people he came to preach to, but refused to shoot > > them, > > > > even > > > > > > though > > > > > > they speared him to death. I think he had the idea. The man > > who > > > > > > speared him > > > > > > was later saved, and became good friends with the family of > > the > > > > > > missionaries he killed. Indeed, Jesus rebuked Peter for > > cutting > > > > off > > > > > > Malchus' ear, and healed the ear. Note that in the context, > > Jesus > > > > > > also > > > > > > commanded his disciples to make sure they had money with them > > > > > > instead of > > > > > > relying on the supernatural provision He told them to use, > > > > before. > > > > > > The time > > > > > > they were going through was like a dark tunnel, > > supernaturally, > > > > as > > > > > > Jesus > > > > > > allowed Himself to be crucified, descended to Hell, took the > > > > keys of > > > > > > Death, > > > > > > led captivity captive, rose again, and ascended to our > > Father. On > > > > > > the day > > > > > > of Pentecost following this glorious occasion, Jesus sent the > > > > Holy > > > > > > Spirit, > > > > > > and ended this dark tunnel forever. Therefore, I don't > > believe > > > > that > > > > > > Jesus' > > > > > > command to his disciples to own a sword is binding, today. > > We can > > > > > > rely on > > > > > > the supernatural protection and provision of God. On the > > other > > > > hand, > > > > > > there > > > > > > is certainly nothing wrong with owning a weapon as long as > > you > > > > don't > > > > > > commit > > > > > > a crime with it or even use it to resist arrest at the wrong > > > > time. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to keep things in perspective, in the New Testament, > > there > > > > are > > > > > > about > > > > > > 40 references to "sword" and I think more of them refer to > > the > > > > Word > > > > > > of God > > > > > > than to a physical weapon. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 14:11 5/23/2000 +0000, Brian Wood wrote: > > > > > > >Stefan > > > > > > > > > > > > > >I did not take the verses out of context. I was aware of the > > > > later > > > > > > >verse but chose to omit it for greater emphasis. Jesus > > seems to > > > > be > > > > > > >saying to the disciples that a time when they would not be > > able > > > > to > > > > > > >rely on God's provision and protection was imminent. Even > > with > > > > the > > > > > > >two swords Jesus did not tell them to get rid of them. I > > believe > > > > > > that > > > > > > >the time of Jesus' arrest was different. The disciples were > > not > > > > > > under > > > > > > >threat only Jesus himself and he had no intention of > > resisting > > > > (and > > > > > > >had no need of weapons as, according to John's Gospel, all > > the > > > > > > >soldiers fell down when He said, "I am He"). Also, the > > disciples > > > > > > >were fighting against the "authorities". I would surmise > > that > > > > Jesus > > > > > > >was advocating the use of swords against robbers etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >There are times when we are definitely "commissioned" and > > times > > > > > > >when we are left to use our own resources. I have heard that > > > > > > >preached on more than one occasion and Corrie Ten Boom said > > > > > > >the same in one of her books. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Anyone else care to comment? > > > > > > > > > > > > > >BoW > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 23 May 00, at 10:22, Stefan Fischer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Brian, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are not correct in what you say. Below are two > > verses > > > > from > > > > > > Luke > > > > > > > > > 22 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 35 And He said to them, When I sent you without > > purse and > > > > > > wallet > > > > > > > > > and sandals, did you lack anything? And they said, > > > > Nothing. 36 > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > > He said to them, But now, he who has a purse, let him > > take > > > > it, > > > > > > > > and > > > > > > > > > likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him > > sell > > > > his > > > > > > > > > garment and buy one. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hey but you can't take these two verses out of their > > context. > > > > > > Verse 38 > > > > > > > > says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. > > And He > > > > > > said to > > > > > > > > them, It is enough. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After that Jesus and the disciples go to Getsemaneh. > > When the > > > > > > soldiers > > > > > > > > come and want to arrest Jesus the Bible says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 49 And those around Him seeing what was about to occur, > > they > > > > > > said to > > > > > > > > him, Lord, shall we strike with the sword? 50 And one of > > > > them > > > > > > struck > > > > > > > > the servant of the high priest and cut off his right > > ear. 51 > > > > > > And > > > > > > > > Jesus answered and said, Let it go until now. And > > touching > > > > his > > > > > > ear, He > > > > > > > > healed him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you read the same story in Matthew 26 (This is the > > verse > > > > > > Simson > > > > > > > > quoted from.) it says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 51 And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus > > stretched > > > > out > > > > > > his > > > > > > > > hand and drew his sword, and he struck a servant of the > > high > > > > > > priest > > > > > > > > and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, put up > > your > > > > > > sword > > > > > > > > again into its place; for all who take the sword shall > > perish > > > > > > with a > > > > > > > > sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot now pray to My > > Father, > > > > and > > > > > > He > > > > > > > > shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of > > angels? > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael Paul Johnson > > > > > > aka Soaring Golden Eagle > > > > > > PO Box 1151, Longmont CO 80502-1151, USA > > > > > > Rocky Mountain outpost 207, New Creation Church > > > > > > Jesus Christ is Lord! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______ > > > > > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > "Eat the hay & spit out the sticks! - A#1's mule" > > RTKB&G4JC! > > > > > > http://rangernet.org Autoresponder: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________ > > > > > YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! > > > > > Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! > > > > > Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: > > > > > http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. > > > > > _______ > > > > > To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe rangernet" to > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > "Eat the hay & spit out the sticks! - A#1's mule" > > RTKB&G4JC! > > > > > http://rangernet.org Autoresponder: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > -- > > > > ��ࡱ > > > > -- > > ��ࡱ -- ��ࡱ�
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