Okay. Let's all think of a new topic. This gun issue has been beat to
death. Does anyone have any good news about anything that God has been
doing in your Outpost or church?
Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew
Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA
Southern New England District
On Tue, 23 May 2000 11:13:19 -0700 Duane Wheeler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
>
>
> Jeff Mayhew wrote:
>
> > Okay, but what do guns have to to with the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
>
> I'm going to answer you as I would a Ranger.... I hope you follow,
> agreeing with what you can and asking reflective questions as I try
> to
> council..
>
> There are 4 Gold points to the Ranger emblem..
>
> Mental
> Physical
> Spiritual
> Social
>
> Our relationship with Christ, and the Gospel of peace is for this
> life
> and the life to come. With reguard to the gospel, it reaches us in
> our
> hearts
> our minds our bodies and our soul... *This life also is our mission,
> to
> tarry and live and be ready for anything...
>
> To everything there is a season, a time to plant and a time to
> reap..ect.
> there is a time and a purpose for everything under heaven.
>
> Without a doubt- *Guns are within the domain of this life and allways
> found at critical times of History as well as our culture.. *So are
> automobiles
> and aircraft. Royal rangers has merits to explore these paths to
> understanding and
> knoledge. Our lives on earth require us to find work and build
> skills to
> pay our way and feed our families.
>
> Royal Rangers attemps to bridge this life with the *spiritual life in
> Christ.
>
> It's about our "perspective" when we view an object be it a gun or a
> car..
> and the choices we make in useing it for good or for evil.
>
> *I'm going to stop and listen now to what you have to say..in
> reflection<G>
>
> Love yah-
> Cdr.Duane -=A=-
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >
> > Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew
> > Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA
> > Southern New England District
> >
> > On Tue, 23 May 2000 10:43:58 -0700 Duane Wheeler
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > writes:
> > >
> > > *You can change the subject anytime to anything you desire<G>
> > >
> > > But the point I'm trying to make is to "re-think" the role of
> > > Leadership
> > > of the boys with regard to the topic of guns.. *this may get
> long<G>
> > >
> > > There is a well published FCF picture painted by Cdr.Fred Deaver
> > > of a young Ranger aiming a black powder rifle, and Cdr.Fred
> looking
> > > over his shoulder... This "picture" is on the patch for the
> > > up-comming
> > > FCF National Rendezvous...
> > >
> > > *Sometimes the "vision" of Commander is summed up in only
> teaching
> > > marksmanship, I hope it becomes more....
> > >
> > > *What I want to propose is that the "target" we aim at in that
> > > image..becomes
> > > the
> > > "Mission Statement" of Royal Rangers- "Reach-Teach-Keep Boys for
> > > Christ"
> > > and we re-examine the role Adult men play as
> > > Instructors-Teachers-Mentors
> > > and Male role models...
> > >
> > > Ranger leaders assume they must "teach" or "tell the answers" to
> the
> > > boys for
> > > them to "learn"...
> > > valuable skills that are held by the Adult leader- The RR LYC
> tells
> > > us that
> > > "lecture" is
> > > the least effective way to communicate with boys... and their
> are in
> > > fact
> > > many pitfalls
> > > to a "Adult-leader-led" presentation.
> > >
> > >
> > > *If the goal was for Adult Men to become important.. then
> requiring
> > > everyone to listen when Commander speaks would be the regular
> > > business of the
> > >
> > > Ranger meeting! A "Man" would stand and bark: "Hey! Listen up!
> I'm
> > > going to
> > > only say this ONCE!"
> > >
> > > *That's effective... That's how lots of MEN were trained on the
> job
> > > and in
> > > the Military.
> > > However- the "Mission" of Royal Rangers is not to make soldiers
> out
> > > of boys
> > > or
> > > develop a fear based system of learning, it's *Reach-Teach and
> Keep!
> > >
> > > *But if the GOAL is to "give away" wisdom.. encourage learning
> and
> > > teamwork,
> > > then the Leadership task changes to finding a way to increase the
> > > impact of
> > > a message into the hearts of the boys, where they are....right
> there
> > > "just as
> > > I am..."
> > >
> > > You can do this by increasing "Honor" and decreasing
> > > "anger-criticizum and
> > > threats"
> > >
> > > You do that by "joining" the boys in what they learn..and
> "seeing'
> > > what they
> > > see by
> > > being there with them. I suggest you invite guests as needed, and
> > > prefere the
> > > boys
> > > to you to stand and MC the meeting... that's the job for Sr.guide
> > > anyway!
> > >
> > > *Perhaps-!!
> > >
> > > Guns in the Outpost are "Triggers for Men to un-load pent-up
> > > doctrines of
> > > paramilitary thinking" (*God help me as I stand in the middle
> of a
> > > pond of
> > > thin ice!)
> > >
> > > They hold the potential to throw us into paths that have us
> dwell on
> > > "the
> > > gravest extreme"
> > > or situational ethics of the use of lethal force... or
> underground
> > > survivalist mentalities
> > > that have NO PLACE IN ROYAL RANGERS!
> > >
> > > (*Illistration- of my thoughts...)
> > >
> > > I teach "Toolcraft"-
> > >
> > > ...and at Powwow we brought axes-saws-knives-wedges and splitting
> > > mauls,
> > > we built an "ax yard" put up a "blood circle perimeter" and
> placed
> > > that in
> > > the camp.
> > >
> > > What I found was that I as leader always "worried" what the boys
> > > were doing
> > > over there with a sharp ax! *They were attracted to the axe yard,
> > > and were
> > > "pounding wood" just to pound wood! *There's nothing wrong with
> that
> > > *if
> > > we needed more split firewood or stuff cut up... But in practical
> > > application-
> > > I found that by putting away in the trailer the
> axe-hatchet-shovel
> > > the
> > > over-all
> > > "Peace" in the camp was elevated! *The worry factor was lowered
> and
> > > the boys
> > > en-joy the events planned for that time instead of "pounding
> > > wood"....
> > >
> > > *When we needed a axe-yard job done I sent a patrol guide with
> the
> > > Ranger to
> > > supervise him and assist as needed.. This used the "Buddy system"
> > > had 2 deep
> > > leadership and a "accountability system" to keep the task on
> track
> > > and avoid
> > > the
> > > pitfall of playing or dangerous "sky-larking"......
> > >
> > >
> > > *I found that my best tools were the BOYS!
> > >
> > > How do you sharpen a Ranger? *You have him work with you in a
> > > practical
> > > hands-on manner" Leader-boy.... in that way BOTH become sharp!
> > >
> > > *Now if you desire sharp leaders- use a boy to
> instruct-Teach-Lead
> > > another
> > > boy... and BOTH gain character and skill! *How do build sharp
> > > patrols?
> > > Have the Patrol guide become the *primary path of communication
> to
> > > back
> > > his title as leader... and have him be a real leader to the
> patrol!
> > >
> > >
> > > *TYING IT ALL TOGATHER!
> > > ======================
> > >
> > >
> > > *Teaching skills can become "sharpening tools" for developing boy
> > > leaders if
> > > we plan ahead and set the goals of guiding the outpost to the
> > > *mission
> > > statement
> > > in everything we do.
> > >
> > > Marksmanship- Wepon's saftey-Hunting may be our "intrest" or
> > > passion...
> > > But our job is guideing the Outpost to the *mission statement.
> > > -*CHRIST!
> > >
> > > We "Better" serve the Lord and our Rangers by inviteing
> > > "para-professionals"
> > > to lecture the outpost on the subject of guns.. and to stand with
> > > the boys,
> > > and
> > > *reflect on their "recievers of knoledge" (LTC section 5) as to
> what
> > > they
> > > question
> > > in reaction to the presentation... *If you desire to be a real
> > > Christian
> > > role model-
> > > then you will treasure the respect you gain by becomeing
> moderate in
> > > all
> > > things,
> > > thougtfull and balanced....
> > >
> > > Your calm demenor will allow you to gently shape or move the boys
> > > closer to
> > > a personal relationship with god, if you act in this mannor...
> being
> > > brief,
> > > being
> > > scritptural and being on target.
> > >
> > > The goal is to move the Outpost ahead along the path to
> achievement
> > > and
> > > our better nature, As I said: removeing the tools from the ax
> yard
> > > allowed
> > > us to live in peace and safety, and haveing the tools there
> allowed
> > > us to
> > > work,
> > > teach,instruct and guide the boys to a better place...
> > >
> > > *Guns are such that the Parent and Pastor should be briefed with
> the
> > > lesson
> > > plan,
> > > goal and paramiters of the conversation you intend to pursue...
> Be
> > > wise and
> > > use
> > > your resources, *Build the kingdom!
> > >
> > >
> > > Cdr.Duane -=A=-
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jeff Mayhew wrote:
> > >
> > > > Question:
> > > >
> > > > What do guns and swords have to to with the Gospel of Jesus
> > > Christ? Is
> > > > this topic going to get people saved, or edify existing
> believers?
> > > Why
> > > > are we as Commanders wasting time discussing things of this
> world
> > > instead
> > > > of discussing the things of God?
> > > >
> > > > I think this whole gun debate has gotten out of hand and we
> need
> > > to find
> > > > a new topic to discuss. Who's with me?
> > > >
> > > > Cmndr. Jeff Mayhew
> > > > Outpost 72 - Brockton, MA
> > > > Southern New England District
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 23 May 2000 08:41:15 -0600 Soaring Golden Eagle
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > > > There is a need for balance here, as in many areas.
> > > > >
> > > > > Jesus both commanded that the disciples arm themselves and a
> few
> > > > > hours
> > > > > later rebuked them for inappropriate use of those arms. Paul
> the
> > > > > Apostle
> > > > > both stated that authorities don't bear a sword in vain
> (Romans
> > > > > 13:4) and
> > > > > clearly stated that our battle isn't against flesh and
> blood, but
> > > > > against
> > > > > spiritual wickedness in heavenly places, and prescribed
> spiritual
> > > > > weapons
> > > > > and armor (Ephesians 6:10-20).
> > > > >
> > > > > The warning against killing with the sword is repeated in
> > > Revelation
> > > > > 13:10.
> > > > >
> > > > > Let's take another look at the Scripture quoted below. Jesus
> told
> > > > > his
> > > > > disciples at that time (not as a command for all time) to
> get a
> > > > > sword, even
> > > > > if they had to sell some clothes to buy it. Jesus never told
> > > them to
> > > > > attack
> > > > > anyone with it, just to have it. Apparently, the sword was
> for a
> > > > > deterrent
> > > > > against attack, not something to actually use to maim or kill
> > > people
> > > > > with.
> > > > > The missionary Nate Saint had a loaded pistol when he was
> > > speared to
> > > > > death
> > > > > by the people he came to preach to, but refused to shoot
> them,
> > > even
> > > > > though
> > > > > they speared him to death. I think he had the idea. The man
> who
> > > > > speared him
> > > > > was later saved, and became good friends with the family of
> the
> > > > > missionaries he killed. Indeed, Jesus rebuked Peter for
> cutting
> > > off
> > > > > Malchus' ear, and healed the ear. Note that in the context,
> Jesus
> > > > > also
> > > > > commanded his disciples to make sure they had money with them
> > > > > instead of
> > > > > relying on the supernatural provision He told them to use,
> > > before.
> > > > > The time
> > > > > they were going through was like a dark tunnel,
> supernaturally,
> > > as
> > > > > Jesus
> > > > > allowed Himself to be crucified, descended to Hell, took the
> > > keys of
> > > > > Death,
> > > > > led captivity captive, rose again, and ascended to our
> Father. On
> > > > > the day
> > > > > of Pentecost following this glorious occasion, Jesus sent the
> > > Holy
> > > > > Spirit,
> > > > > and ended this dark tunnel forever. Therefore, I don't
> believe
> > > that
> > > > > Jesus'
> > > > > command to his disciples to own a sword is binding, today.
> We can
> > > > > rely on
> > > > > the supernatural protection and provision of God. On the
> other
> > > hand,
> > > > > there
> > > > > is certainly nothing wrong with owning a weapon as long as
> you
> > > don't
> > > > > commit
> > > > > a crime with it or even use it to resist arrest at the wrong
> > > time.
> > > > >
> > > > > Just to keep things in perspective, in the New Testament,
> there
> > > are
> > > > > about
> > > > > 40 references to "sword" and I think more of them refer to
> the
> > > Word
> > > > > of God
> > > > > than to a physical weapon.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > At 14:11 5/23/2000 +0000, Brian Wood wrote:
> > > > > >Stefan
> > > > > >
> > > > > >I did not take the verses out of context. I was aware of the
> > > later
> > > > > >verse but chose to omit it for greater emphasis. Jesus
> seems to
> > > be
> > > > > >saying to the disciples that a time when they would not be
> able
> > > to
> > > > > >rely on God's provision and protection was imminent. Even
> with
> > > the
> > > > > >two swords Jesus did not tell them to get rid of them. I
> believe
> > > > > that
> > > > > >the time of Jesus' arrest was different. The disciples were
> not
> > > > > under
> > > > > >threat only Jesus himself and he had no intention of
> resisting
> > > (and
> > > > > >had no need of weapons as, according to John's Gospel, all
> the
> > > > > >soldiers fell down when He said, "I am He"). Also, the
> disciples
> > > > > >were fighting against the "authorities". I would surmise
> that
> > > Jesus
> > > > > >was advocating the use of swords against robbers etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >There are times when we are definitely "commissioned" and
> times
> > > > > >when we are left to use our own resources. I have heard that
> > > > > >preached on more than one occasion and Corrie Ten Boom said
> > > > > >the same in one of her books.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Anyone else care to comment?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >BoW
> > > > > >
> > > > > >On 23 May 00, at 10:22, Stefan Fischer wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Brian,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You are not correct in what you say. Below are two
> verses
> > > from
> > > > > Luke
> > > > > > > > 22
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 35 And He said to them, When I sent you without
> purse and
> > > > > wallet
> > > > > > > > and sandals, did you lack anything? And they said,
> > > Nothing. 36
> > > > > And
> > > > > > > > He said to them, But now, he who has a purse, let him
> take
> > > it,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > likewise his wallet. And he who has no sword, let him
> sell
> > > his
> > > > > > > > garment and buy one.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hey but you can't take these two verses out of their
> context.
> > > > > Verse 38
> > > > > > > says:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords.
> And He
> > > > > said to
> > > > > > > them, It is enough.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After that Jesus and the disciples go to Getsemaneh.
> When the
> > > > > soldiers
> > > > > > > come and want to arrest Jesus the Bible says:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 49 And those around Him seeing what was about to occur,
> they
> > > > > said to
> > > > > > > him, Lord, shall we strike with the sword? 50 And one of
> > > them
> > > > > struck
> > > > > > > the servant of the high priest and cut off his right
> ear. 51
> > > > > And
> > > > > > > Jesus answered and said, Let it go until now. And
> touching
> > > his
> > > > > ear, He
> > > > > > > healed him.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you read the same story in Matthew 26 (This is the
> verse
> > > > > Simson
> > > > > > > quoted from.) it says:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 51 And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus
> stretched
> > > out
> > > > > his
> > > > > > > hand and drew his sword, and he struck a servant of the
> high
> > > > > priest
> > > > > > > and cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus said to him, put up
> your
> > > > > sword
> > > > > > > again into its place; for all who take the sword shall
> perish
> > > > > with a
> > > > > > > sword. 53 Do you think that I cannot now pray to My
> Father,
> > > and
> > > > > He
> > > > > > > shall presently give Me more than twelve legions of
> angels?
> > > > >
> > > > > Michael Paul Johnson
> > > > > aka Soaring Golden Eagle
> > > > > PO Box 1151, Longmont CO 80502-1151, USA
> > > > > Rocky Mountain outpost 207, New Creation Church
> > > > > Jesus Christ is Lord!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______
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> > > > > "Eat the hay & spit out the sticks! - A#1's mule"
> RTKB&G4JC!
> > > > > http://rangernet.org Autoresponder: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >
> > > >
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