I was just at a site last week where the Enphase branch circuit breaker,
outside utility disconnect breaker, and feed breaker in the main panel all
tripped simultaneously, and it happened about 1 hour before I showed up onsite.
The customer said it had happened 1 other time last fall but that time it was
just the 1 branch circuit in the Enphase combiner panel. Interestingly the
customer mentioned that he had just washed off the panels, also about 1 hour
before I got there. I went on the roof and found that the installing
contractor had not put on the Enphase termination caps. 1 string was
wire-nutted with regular wire nuts and sitting on the roof, and the roof was
damp right there. This was a fairly flat roof. The other micro trunk cable was
just cut with no protection at all, tied to the rail…
Amos Post
Integrity Energy
W 802.763.7023
C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com <http://www.ienergyvt.com/>
Facebook <https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl>
> On Jun 3, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Jason Szumlanski
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> The breaker in the main panel IS tripping simultaneously with one of the
> branch circuit breakers each time.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:43 PM Jay <[email protected]
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> A question that keeps nagging me is why do these breakers trip and not the
> breaker in the main panel?
> Presuming there is a 40 amp in the main
>
> I would have thought that given all the times the breakers have tripped at
> some point that one would have tripped and I can’t understand why not?
>
> Jay
>
>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Shafer <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wrenches
>> Looking g at the bigger breaker tripping at the same time is very likely do
>> to response time of the breaker nothing more. As l suggested in a previous
>> message. Use a non bridged breaker to see if it is one or both legs that
>> trip. Also an eguage will help to see what if anything leads up to the
>> failure and when.
>> Jerry
>> Jerry
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski
>> <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output circuit"
>> having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue somewhere within
>> the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to the microinverter, is it
>> possible that a fault could still occur at night? I had a suggestion from
>> another wrench that there are film capacitors on the AC output side, but are
>> these isolated when there is no DC input? It seems unlikely that this would
>> be an issue, but I have seen microinverters reporting a couple of watts at
>> night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real that is.
>>
>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH a
>> branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? That seems
>> odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you don't often
>> see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit breakers.
>>
>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the BR220
>> and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think this would
>> be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH feeder breakers
>> in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM <[email protected]
>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters
>> causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid.
>>
>> ---
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I confirmed
>>> that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my first
>>> suspicion.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray <[email protected]
>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>> Is it at all weather related? Rain, or high humidity? High temperatures?
>>> Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off at?
>>>
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> 303 505-8760
>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit
>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time.
>>>>
>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker they
>>>> are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks and
>>>> then trip again.
>>>>
>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole system
>>>> apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel that I
>>>> need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive proposition.
>>>> I really don't know what else to do at this point.
>>>>
>>>> Jason
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski
>>>> <[email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we will
>>>> see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt I have
>>>> two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined
>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping
>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker.
>>>>
>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have never
>>>> seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have seen many
>>>> combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I would be
>>>> replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM <[email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max
>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the
>>>> string's associated breaker in the Enphase combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped again. We
>>>> replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the breaker was
>>>> less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice days since.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 watts but
>>>> in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra careful
>>>> going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max published...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My story.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Scot
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: RE-wrenches <[email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of Jason
>>>> Szumlanski
>>>> Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM
>>>> To: RE-wrenches <[email protected]
>>>> <mailto:[email protected]>>
>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and Enphase
>>>> IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters each
>>>> coming into an Enphase AC combiner.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers and
>>>> the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been
>>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6
>>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept
>>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and
>>>> cap, etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different
>>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We
>>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems
>>>> unlikely that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now
>>>> switched out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers
>>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on another
>>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One
>>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a
>>>> fusible disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two
>>>> line fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is
>>>> on if there is in fact a fault.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase systems
>>>> in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned out to
>>>> be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on
>>>> different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal fault
>>>> which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing
>>>> out of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times.
>>>> This case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>>>
>>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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