Yes, we double-checked that. I have seen that happen before and it's one of my early diagnostic steps for something like this.
On Tue, Jun 9, 2020 at 9:18 AM Mac Lewis <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Jason, > > Are you certain that the branch circuits aren't crisscrossed somewhere, > meaning that an L1 branch 1, isn't connected to an L2 branch 2? That could > explain two different breakers tripping. > > Good luck > > > On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 1:07 PM Jason Szumlanski < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Undoubtedly, the termination caps are the second thing we check after the >> rooftop junction box(es). These are prone to installation errors, even when >> the right parts are used. And given the cost, I've thought very long and >> hard about abandoning them altogether and terminating strings in small >> j-boxes with watertight fittings. But in this case, there was no evidence >> of improper installation (we replaced them) and it was not correlated to >> rain events. >> >> We are well equipped with bare Q-cable and field wireables that we could >> use for troubleshooting to bypass certain sections, but the intermittent >> nature of the problem and unpredictable timeframe between faults is very >> frustrating. While this is a rare occurrence, it is definitely a "con" to >> consider when comparing string vs. microinverters that I had not strongly >> considered in the past. I'm intent on getting to the bottom of this in >> order to learn what to look for in the future and how to approach diagnoses >> of Enphase branch circuit faults. >> >> Jason >> >> >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 2:31 PM Amos Post <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> I was just at a site last week where the Enphase branch circuit breaker, >>> outside utility disconnect breaker, and feed breaker in the main panel all >>> tripped simultaneously, and it happened about 1 hour before I showed up >>> onsite. The customer said it had happened 1 other time last fall but that >>> time it was just the 1 branch circuit in the Enphase combiner panel. >>> Interestingly the customer mentioned that he had just washed off the >>> panels, also about 1 hour before I got there. I went on the roof and found >>> that the installing contractor had not put on the Enphase termination caps. >>> 1 string was wire-nutted with regular wire nuts and sitting on the roof, >>> and the roof was damp right there. This was a fairly flat roof. The other >>> micro trunk cable was just cut with no protection at all, tied to the rail… >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Amos Post >>> Integrity Energy >>> W 802.763.7023 >>> C 802.291.2188 >>> ienergyVT.com >>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/f1ae9e0c71265067b985055083179eea0fff7f47?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ienergyvt.com&userId=1613865&signature=7ffa18528c69326a> >>> Facebook >>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/dd75f6ff58a0e98e9008c1388c3a91e7995d1093?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fintegrityenergyllp%3Fref%3Dhl&userId=1613865&signature=8fbb658055c3a9ea> >>> >>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Jason Szumlanski < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> The breaker in the main panel IS tripping simultaneously with one of the >>> branch circuit breakers each time. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 12:43 PM Jay <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> A question that keeps nagging me is why do these breakers trip and not >>>> the breaker in the main panel? >>>> Presuming there is a 40 amp in the main >>>> >>>> I would have thought that given all the times the breakers have tripped >>>> at some point that one would have tripped and I can’t understand why not? >>>> >>>> Jay >>>> >>>> On Jun 3, 2020, at 8:27 AM, Jerry Shafer <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Wrenches >>>> Looking g at the bigger breaker tripping at the same time is very >>>> likely do to response time of the breaker nothing more. As l suggested in a >>>> previous message. Use a non bridged breaker to see if it is one or both >>>> legs that trip. Also an eguage will help to see what if anything leads up >>>> to the failure and when. >>>> Jerry >>>> Jerry >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020, 7:58 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I wonder about that. Of course, it could be the "inverter output >>>>> circuit" having a fault in the wiring still (an intermittent issue >>>>> somewhere within the IQ cable or home run wiring). But internal to the >>>>> microinverter, is it possible that a fault could still occur at night? I >>>>> had a suggestion from another wrench that there are film capacitors on the >>>>> AC output side, but are these isolated when there is no DC input? It seems >>>>> unlikely that this would be an issue, but I have seen microinverters >>>>> reporting a couple of watts at night (in Enlighten). I'm not sure how real >>>>> that is. >>>>> >>>>> The overriding question I have is what kind of fault would cause BOTH >>>>> a branch circuit and the main solar breaker to trip simultaneously? That >>>>> seems odd to me. If any normal load branch circuit has a fault, you don't >>>>> often see premises main breakers tripping, or even feeder circuit >>>>> breakers. >>>>> >>>>> I got to thinking that maybe there is some kind of issue between the >>>>> BR220 and CH240 breakers not playing nicely together. But I would think >>>>> this would be a well-known issue because I'm sure there are tons of CH >>>>> feeder breakers in the wild with BR branch circuits downstream. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 9:25 AM <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> If it trips at night, we know it is not the output from the inverters >>>>>> causing the tripping. The current must be coming from the grid. >>>>>> --- >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2020-06-01 12:05, Jason Szumlanski wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not weather. It's at all times of the day and night, and I >>>>>> confirmed that there is no correlation to rain or high winds. That was my >>>>>> first suspicion. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Jun 1, 2020 at 10:27 AM Ray <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Is it at all weather related? Rain, or high humidity? High >>>>>> temperatures? Do you have any indication what time of day it trips off >>>>>> at? >>>>>> >>>>>> Ray Walters >>>>>> Remote Solar >>>>>> 303 505-8760 >>>>>> >>>>>> On 6/1/20 10:23 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, that didn't resolve it. The main breaker and a branch circuit >>>>>> breaker tripped again a few days ago. It was the same branch this time. >>>>>> >>>>>> As my next diagnostic step I swapped two circuits (on which breaker >>>>>> they are landed). If history is a guide, it will work for about two weeks >>>>>> and then trip again. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm dumbfounded. I really don't want to have to tear this whole >>>>>> system apart. At this point, if I have to remove all the modules, I feel >>>>>> that I need to replace all of the trunk cable which is an expensive >>>>>> proposition. I really don't know what else to do at this point. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, May 25, 2020, 10:43 AM Jason Szumlanski < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I strongly suspect the CH240 combined breaker was compromised (we >>>>>> will see). Since it happened that two different strings tripped, I doubt >>>>>> I >>>>>> have two microinverters with internal faults. It has to be the combined >>>>>> breaker. I was just surprised that branch circuit breakers were tripping >>>>>> simultaneously with the combined output breaker. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of all the supply side connected systems I have installed, I have >>>>>> never seen a combined output fusible disconnect fuse blow, but I have >>>>>> seen >>>>>> many combined output breakers tripped. I was worried early on that I >>>>>> would >>>>>> be replacing fuses constantly, but that has not been an issue whatsoever. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, May 21, 2020 at 11:15 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Actually, we had a IQ7 string loaded up to its max panel size and max >>>>>> string length and in the spring on cool, clear day, it tripped the >>>>>> string's >>>>>> associated breaker in the Enphase combiner. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We reset but of course that breaker was impaired and it tripped >>>>>> again. We replaced and never had an issue going forward. We suspect the >>>>>> breaker was less than perfect from the start as we've add equally nice >>>>>> days >>>>>> since. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> This almost reminds me of loading up Outback FM80. It says 4,000 >>>>>> watts but in reality, 3,600 is the max when amps spike. I will be extra >>>>>> careful going forward on IQ7 string length when going to the max >>>>>> published... >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> My story. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Scot >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *From:* RE-wrenches <[email protected]> *On >>>>>> Behalf Of *Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 21, 2020 8:57 AM >>>>>> *To:* RE-wrenches <[email protected]> >>>>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Enphase intermittent breaker trippjng >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm trying to resolve an intermittent frustrating problem with and >>>>>> Enphase IQ system. There are three AC Branch circuits of 9 microinverters >>>>>> each coming into an Enphase AC combiner. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What has been happening is one of the BR220 branch circuit breakers >>>>>> and the combine CH240 breaker in the main backfed load center have been >>>>>> tripping simultaneously. It has happened about four times in the last 6 >>>>>> months. It was always the same branch circuit breaker, so we kept >>>>>> investigating that string, checking the junction box, trunk cable, and >>>>>> cap, >>>>>> etc. Finally we swapped out the BR220 breaker. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Fast forward 4 weeks, and we got another call. This time a different >>>>>> branch circuit breaker and the main breaker tripped simultaneously. We >>>>>> checked that branch circuit and could not find any fault. It seems >>>>>> unlikely >>>>>> that two branch circuit breakers would be faulty, so we have now switched >>>>>> out the CH240 main breaker in hopes that it is the culprit. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm not totally confident in this resolution and I have my fingers >>>>>> crossed. If that doesn't work, does anyone have any suggestions on >>>>>> another >>>>>> diagnostic step? These intermittent problems are a major hassle. One >>>>>> thought I had was to switch to a supply side interconnection with a >>>>>> fusible >>>>>> disconnect. Maybe the intermittent fault would blow one of the two line >>>>>> fuses so at least I could narrow it down to which line the fault is on if >>>>>> there is in fact a fault. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I have experienced two other tripping breaker issues with Enphase >>>>>> systems in the past. Neither of them were systems I installed. One turned >>>>>> out to be branch circuits that were not properly paired up and landed on >>>>>> different breakers. Another time we had an inverter with an internal >>>>>> fault >>>>>> which eventually"blew up" with a loud popping noise and smoke billowing >>>>>> out >>>>>> of it. That happened after resetting a trip breaker multiple times. This >>>>>> case seems to be unrelated to those issues. I'm perplexed. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Jason Szumlanski >>>>>> >>>>>> Florida Solar Design Group >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>>>>> >>>>>> List Address: [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>>>>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/abcb879ec34ff2316c6c04adb6f43fb133c4b18d?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=a7bf07d268af1ce9> >>>>>> >>>>>> List-Archive: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/maillist.html >>>>>> <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/6685b067141605e37a6f31b7ffff135296f2785f?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.mail-archive.com%2Fre-wrenches%40lists.re-wrenches.org%2Fmaillist.html&userId=1613865&signature=c540d40c34907fa1> >>>>>> >>>>>> List rules & etiquette: >>>>>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>>>>> 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