On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 00:27, donnella whitacre wrote: > oh wesley my friend there was money to buy and sell with. > i wouldn't say that just recognizing the state was a big deal. you seem to > , i don't. recognizing it and then trying your best to destroy it ,
Like Israel recognizing and then trying to destroy the PLO? > well > that isn't much if you ask me. the british did every thing they could to > stop the state of israel from being, they were given the mandate for a > state of israel, Correction - they were given a mandate to set up a Jewish homeland in the region then known as Palestine. They were not given a mandate to dispossess the original inhabitants. Even if Balfour stated quite bluntly that their consent - Muslim, Christian, Jew, Druze - was never going to be sought on the matter - thus, incidentally, making the whole procedure illegal and unconstitutional according to the rules the British liked to claim they used to govern themselves. > not to make several arab states out of it, which is what > they did. try reading some history? they commanded the arab league:,john > pasha glubb? so much an arab you couldn't tell him from one of them? Going native, they called it. You'd need to know quite a bit more about the British Empire to understand quite what they meant by that. You don't appear to understand it. > they > sat by and watched 75 jews burn to death on their way to mt scopus , Considering that that was in retaliation for the Deir Yassin massacre ... don't tell me that the killing of 75 Jews is a massacre and the killing of 150 Arabs isn't! That sounds like Lidice all over again. > attacked by arabs and refused to intervene. many times they let the arabs > attack and they stood by and did nothing to stop it. No, you don't appear to understand just how confused the whole situation was at that time. The British were under pressure from two sides - the Zionists in London and the Arabs in the Middle East. By the time you're talking about, they had effectively ceased to govern and were counting down the days till they could wash their hands of the whole mess and go home.. > the refugee problem > out of europe was no different. they had the time to stop and find the > royal lippizen horses but not to bomb the railroad lines to the death > camps. the jewish organizations came up with money to help refugees My question is why the heck didn't they come up with the money before the war, and why were the Zionist organizations so fixated on Mandatory Palestine, when most of the refugees before the war, didn't want to go there in the first place. And you're not answering my original question on this matter, you're skirting around the issue. Why? > and the > state department nixed every plan they came up with including using > palestine as a refugee camp to save lives. Try reading The Abandonment Of > the Jews by David Wayman. > leave it to you to try and defend them as having done so much for peace. > i wish that is all israel had to do was one thing to please the rest of the > world. you make it seem so effortless. the palestinian signed things for > oslo how about making them live up to their agreements, which including > helping israel keep the terrorists to a slow roar? And what about Baruch Goldstein? The Oslo Agreements stated that both parties would clamp down on terrorism. Baruch Goldstein went on his killing rampage and following it, Israel clamped down on the Palestinians in Hevron - they let the settlers rampage without restriction. (That's the standard practice - IDF does something vicious, or they let the settlers do it - they clamp down on the Palestinians. The Palestinians retaliate - they clamp down on the Palestinians.) What makes it worse is that the Quran - Sura 5, if I remember correctly - tells Muslims not to make treaties with either Christians or Jews because they can't be trusted to keep their word. Now guess why Hamas suddenly became so popular? When Israel was weighed in the balances and found wanting? > that is what they agreed > to do. they were suppose to do that before they became a state. that was > part of the deal, to stop the terorists. They haven't been allowed the firepower to take out the settlers in any kind of convincing manner. So Israel breaks its side of the bargain with impunity, and inflicts its terror upon the Palestinians and the Palestinians have no guarantee that they will be ever protected from Israeli state terror, and Israel's state-sponsored private terrorism. > they have not done that so israel > has no obligation to hand over any thing to them untill they do. it is > pretty funny they had room and money for refugees that weren't jewish. you > think the other jews should have paid for them. great. who paid for the > 22,000 or so non jews refugees. strange as it seems Tito's forces made more > effort than the u.s. and britian to save jews. israel had ever right to > have as many settlers as the country could hold. most of them were fleeing > persicution . attitudes like yours made the state of israel a reality This is confused. I have no idea where to start. Rephrase and restate, and maybe I'll have a reply. > .what > recognizing the state has to do with settlers is beyond me.the arabs had > all of transjordan Oh, no, the old tired "Palestine is Jordan" argument. And the terrible thing about it is that you are soooo ignorant of just what you are demanding: http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Enterprises/2493/circinjor.html "After the surrender of Shamil, the legendary Daghestani war-lord of the eastern Caucasian front, and cessation of war in Chechnya in 1859, the Russian bear turned westwards to the Kiakh (Circassians), who held on for five more years, until the last battle was fought and lost in 1864. [...]After the war, the Russians expelled the majority of Circassians to the Ottoman Empire by pursuing a policy of organized and systematic terror. Whole villages were pillaged and then burnt down to the ground. Thousands of people were massacred in cold blood. Those horrific acts, together with the collusion of the Ottomans, resulted in a mass exodus that irreparably compromised the demographic balance in Circassia. It is estimated that more than a million people were forced to immigrate and only 800,000 were eventually settled in the Ottoman Empire, the difference being the victims of hunger, disease, shipping accidents and the chaotic Ottoman administrative system.[...] 4. Settlement in Jordan [...]The early settlers were presented with tremendous challenges and difficulties by the new and alien environment. A substantial number succumbed to the many diseases to which they had never been exposed before. Also, the fact that they inhabited the best areas of the region (some say the worst) put them at loggerheads with the native population, especially the Bedouins, who considered these lands as the traditional grazing ground for their cattle. Many skirmishes were fought out, but eventually reason prevailed and many alliances and treaties of friendship were struck up between them definitely helped by the mutual respect with which they held each other and the common characteristics that they shared, notably chivalry, hospitality and courage. In this respect, it is worthwhile to mention that the local people [the Jordanian bedouin] realized that the Circassians came not as colonists but rather as co-religionists who escaped the hell of Russian persecution.[...]" A bit of humility and willingness to discuss and discuss and discuss some more, might've saved a lot of bloodshed. > and that hasn't stopped them from trying to destroy > israel which is in the palestinian charter, wesley, they aren't trying for > peace. that isn't in their charter. read it. omigod, I have, I even posted parts of one of its articles in the rhetoric list. It's only Hamas that's made anti-Zionism a religious requirement. The PLO Charter could well have been written by any one of the thousands of Western-educated people of any one of the former Western empires. It's not unique. > > Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > <snip> -- Wesley Parish * * * Clinersterton beademung - in all of love. RIP James Blish * * * Mau e ki, "He aha te mea nui?" You ask, "What is the most important thing?" Maku e ki, "He tangata, he tangata, he tangata." I reply, "It is people, it is people, it is people." ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/XgSolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> ----- / o o \ ===OO=====OO============================================= (4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No More BuSHIT! 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