The bare back issue came up about a year or so ago. It was a huge
controversy in the gay community because the majority of us felt he was
fostering and promoting a very dangerous activity. One in fact, that most
of the gay community has been trying to put a stop to for years since the
HIV crisis began. We were trying our best to publicize what he was doing,
because much of his activities were being advertised under a false identity.
He made a lot of enemies since then, not that he was all that popular among
most of the gay community to begin with.
Michael
_____
From: Tim Fuller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 3:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
The bareback stuff came out fairly recently. Hypocrisy has no bounds
within the Rethuglican party.
Enjoy.
Peggy wrote:
> WHAT was that butt itch thing all about? It wasn't just a little
> surreptitious "maybe no one will notice" scratch. He was actually
> fondling his own butt--both sides. I thought maybe the online video
> had been concocted, but I saw a replay with my own eyes last night on
> Home Box Office itself, and there Sullivan was--fondling his own butt
> for a protracted length of time! Strange.
> Question: Did he advocate "bareback" after the AIDS epidemic came to
> light? If so, that is unconscionable. In fact, I cannot think of words
> lowly enough to describe such an advocacy.
> --Peggy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Fuller
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
>
>
> Well I guess that explains the whole 'butt itch' issue. lol.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Michael D. Fein wrote:
>
> > I am always amused when people talk about Andrew Sullivan. This
> is a man
> > who, in my rarely to be humble opinion, is one of the most
> dangerous kinds
> > of hypocrites imaginable. The most outlandish example I can think of
> > is how
> > last year, as he was espousing his "conservative" views, he was also
> > promoting and advertising surreptitiously for "bare back" sex. For
> > those of
> > you who do not know what this refers to; it is anal intercourse
> > without the
> > use of a condom. This act is one of the most dangerous and
> guaranteed
> > ways
> > of spreading AIDS. And yet, here was this conservative icon,
> > promoting his
> > horribly dangerous activity; one that the vast majority of gay men,
> > such as
> > myself, distains.
> >
> > Another example of do as I say, not as I do, Republicanism.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Peggy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:59 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
> >
> >
> > I should have included to read: A Gay joining the Republican Party
> and a
> > Black joining the Republican Party is like a Jew joining the Nazi
> Party. I
> > still cannot fathom a Jewish Republican.
> > The Republican Party has had fundamentalists in a frenzy to court
> Orthodox
> > Jews allegedly to protect God's chosen people, but really to
> divert them
> > from the Democratic Party and, where possible, to enlist --oh,
> > wow--Jews for
> > Jesus. Bush succeeded in convincing Orthodox Jews and Israelis that
> > he--Republicans--would be Israel's protector.--Peggy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: donnella whitacre
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
> >
> >
> > exactly but it is interesting listening to some one try and
> explain why
> > isn't it? a lot of blacks are in the republican party and i wonder
> about
> > that also. so many fundies and orthodox voted for bush. five towns
> said
> > orthodox jews voted in droves for bush. i don't know why as he isn't
> > exactly
> > israel's best friend. kerry actually had a better record on that
> score.
> >
> > Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:My sentiment: A Gay joining the
> > Republican Party is like a Jew joining the Nazi Party.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: donnella whitacre
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
> >
> >
> > hm you have talked to him and know this? as i stated in
> another post,
> > there were gays here who voted yes on 36, they don't believe they need
> > marriage. perhaps a civil union?
> > people are entitled to different opinions you know? that
> doesn't mean
> > they are corrupt or curring favor.
> > there are black republicans, gay ones: just because they are gays
> > doesn't mean they have to be liberal democrats you know.
> > i don't know mr. sullivan , but i agree with some things he
> says and i
> > don't agree with others.
> > that is why i love bill maher's show. he brings really different
> > people
> > together, way more interesting than letterman or the others.
> > they talk, they interact.
> >
> > eTim Fuller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Andrew Sullivan is a self hating gay, a right wing apologist
> whose
> > only
> > purpose
> > appears to be currying favor enough to survive the coming gay
> purge.
> >
> > You think I'm overstating? Consider the thirteen states that
> ban gay
> > marriage
> > on the basis of some biblical nonsense. It's supposedly done
> in the
> > name of
> > preserving traditional marriage, but it's an obvious moral
> blue law.
> > Who knows
> > what's next? Outlaw sex outside of marriage and you've given
> a green
> > light to
> > gather the gays at Guantanemo. With the supreme court in the
> > balance, a
> >
> > president
> > who's bent on returning to the 'moral' values of the 1700's.....
> >
> > Enjoy.
> >
> > donnella whitacre wrote:
> >
> > >please wesley, he is no zionist. i would not be suprised that
> you
> > back
> > him . he was on bill maher the other night and almost got booed
> off the
> > stage. alan sullivan of the new republican had a lot ot say about
> him. and
> > while i dont agree with alan all the time, he is interesting to
> listen
> > to.
> > >
> > >Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:omigod, Chomsky
> > was a
> > Zionist from the word go. He was also a man of impeccable
> > >scholarly integrity.
> > >
> > >The problem with Zionism was that it conflicted with his
> impeccable
> > scholarly
> > >integrity, so the two parted company.
> > >
> > >Is that why you despise him, donnella?
> > >
> > >Shalom
> > >
> > >Wesley Parish
> > >
> > >Quoting donnella whitacre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>chomsky is not the one to quote to me. i dispise him. sorry.
> > >>
> > >>"(ARTEMIS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>Noam Chomsky's The Fate of an Honest Intellectual (an excerpt
> > from his
> >
> > >>2002 book Understanding Power). Here are some quotes from that
> > article:
> > >>
> > >> From Time Immemorial ... was a big scholarly-looking book
> with lots
> > of
> > >>
> > >>footnotes, which purported to show that the Palestinians
> were all
> > recent
> > >>
> > >>immigrants ... And it was very popular -- it got literally
> > hundreds of
> > >>rave
> > >>reviews, and no negative reviews: the Washington Post, the
> New York
> > >>Times,
> > >>everybody was just raving about it. Here was this book which
> proved
> > that
> > >>
> > >>there were really no Palestinians! Of course, the implicit
> message
> > was,
> > >>if
> > >>Israel kicks them all out there's no moral issue, because
> > they're just
> >
> > >>recent immigrants who came in because the Jews had built up the
> > country.
> > >>
> > >>... That was the big intellectual hit for that year: Saul
> Bellow,
> > >>Barbara
> > >>Tuchman, everybody was talking about it as the greatest
> thing since
> > >>chocolate cake. Well, one graduate student at Princeton, a guy
> > named
> > >>Norman Finkelstein, started reading through the book. He was
> > interested
> > >>in
> > >>the history of Zionism, and as he read the book he was kind of
> > surprised
> > >>
> > >>by some of the things it said. He's a very careful student,
> and he
> > >>started
> > >>checking the references -- and it turned out that the whole
> > thing was
> > a
> > >>hoax, it was completely faked: probably it had been put
> together by
> > some
> > >>
> > >>intelligence agency ...
> > >>
> > >> Finkelstein's very persistent: he took a summer off and sat
> in the
> > New
> > >>
> > >>York Public Library, where he went through every single
> reference in
> > the
> > >>
> > >>book -- and he found a record of fraud that you cannot believe.
> > Well,
> > the
> > >>
> > >>New York intellectual community is a pretty small place, and
> pretty
> > soon
> > >>
> > >>everybody knew about this, everybody knew the book was a
> fraud ...
> > >>
> > >> Well, as soon as I heard that the book was going to come out in
> > >>England, I immediately sent copies of Finkelstein's work to
> a number
> > of
> > >>
> > >>British scholars and journalists who are interested in the
> > Middle East
> > --
> > >>
> > >>and they were ready. As soon as the book appeared, it was just
> > >>demolished,
> > >>it was blown out of the water. Every major journal, the Times
> > Literary
> >
> > >>Supplement, the London Review, the Observer, everybody had a
> review
> > >>saying, this doesn't even reach the level of nonsense, of
> > idiocy. ...
> > >>
> > >> Anyhow, by that point the American intellectual community
> realized
> > >>that the Peters book was an embarrassment, and it sort of
> > disappeared
> > --
> > >>
> > >>nobody talks about it anymore.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----
> > >> / o o \
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> > >
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> > >
> > >"Sharpened hands are happy hands.
> > >"Brim the tinfall with mirthful bands"
> > >- A Deepness in the Sky, Vernor Vinge
> > >
> > >"I me. Shape middled me. I would come out into hot!"
> > >I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a
> symbol of
> > the
> > >other horizon. - emacs : meta x dissociated-press
> > >
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