i think that is right, not one trial. but they are still down there.how many
years? if they are terrorists i don't have much sympathy, but still they should
have a trial. that is the fair thing and i think we are running on the premise
that we are the good guys?
i still think it is weird that he is leaving. the nominee for his spot isn't
much better. i wonder why bush is playing the latino card. they voted for him
overwhelmingly. for what reason i don't know.
Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If I recall correctly, he hasn't prosecuted a single terrorist. Or am I
overlooking something?
----- Original Message -----
From: donnella whitacre
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 8:22 PM
Subject: RE: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
wow i now know much more than i ever wanted to know about sullivan. i just
saw him on bill's show a couple times. didn't even know who he was or is. other
than he writes for the new republic.
such a reason why we should listen for a long time before we judge? i was
just discussing what he said, which still might be relivant no matter what a
puke he might be. even pukes say some things right?
as i said i heard pat buchanan say some stuff about bush and was agreeing
with him. that scared me.
he also was smart enough to know that during the 2000 election all those
little ole jews down in florida didn't vote for him/
any takers on why ashcroft it jumping ship?
"Michael D. Fein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The bare back issue came up about a year or so ago. It was a huge
controversy in the gay community because the majority of us felt he was
fostering and promoting a very dangerous activity. One in fact, that most
of the gay community has been trying to put a stop to for years since the
HIV crisis began. We were trying our best to publicize what he was doing,
because much of his activities were being advertised under a false identity.
He made a lot of enemies since then, not that he was all that popular among
most of the gay community to begin with.
Michael
_____
From: Tim Fuller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 3:54 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
The bareback stuff came out fairly recently. Hypocrisy has no bounds
within the Rethuglican party.
Enjoy.
Peggy wrote:
> WHAT was that butt itch thing all about? It wasn't just a little
> surreptitious "maybe no one will notice" scratch. He was actually
> fondling his own butt--both sides. I thought maybe the online video
> had been concocted, but I saw a replay with my own eyes last night on
> Home Box Office itself, and there Sullivan was--fondling his own butt
> for a protracted length of time! Strange.
> Question: Did he advocate "bareback" after the AIDS epidemic came to
> light? If so, that is unconscionable. In fact, I cannot think of words
> lowly enough to describe such an advocacy.
> --Peggy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Tim Fuller
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 2:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
>
>
> Well I guess that explains the whole 'butt itch' issue. lol.
>
> Enjoy.
>
> Michael D. Fein wrote:
>
> > I am always amused when people talk about Andrew Sullivan. This
> is a man
> > who, in my rarely to be humble opinion, is one of the most
> dangerous kinds
> > of hypocrites imaginable. The most outlandish example I can think of
> > is how
> > last year, as he was espousing his "conservative" views, he was also
> > promoting and advertising surreptitiously for "bare back" sex. For
> > those of
> > you who do not know what this refers to; it is anal intercourse
> > without the
> > use of a condom. This act is one of the most dangerous and
> guaranteed
> > ways
> > of spreading AIDS. And yet, here was this conservative icon,
> > promoting his
> > horribly dangerous activity; one that the vast majority of gay men,
> > such as
> > myself, distains.
> >
> > Another example of do as I say, not as I do, Republicanism.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Peggy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 11:59 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
> >
> >
> > I should have included to read: A Gay joining the Republican Party
> and a
> > Black joining the Republican Party is like a Jew joining the Nazi
> Party. I
> > still cannot fathom a Jewish Republican.
> > The Republican Party has had fundamentalists in a frenzy to court
> Orthodox
> > Jews allegedly to protect God's chosen people, but really to
> divert them
> > from the Democratic Party and, where possible, to enlist --oh,
> > wow--Jews for
> > Jesus. Bush succeeded in convincing Orthodox Jews and Israelis that
> > he--Republicans--would be Israel's protector.--Peggy
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: donnella whitacre
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 10, 2004 7:31 AM
> > Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
> >
> >
> > exactly but it is interesting listening to some one try and
> explain why
> > isn't it? a lot of blacks are in the republican party and i wonder
> about
> > that also. so many fundies and orthodox voted for bush. five towns
> said
> > orthodox jews voted in droves for bush. i don't know why as he isn't
> > exactly
> > israel's best friend. kerry actually had a better record on that
> score.
> >
> > Peggy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:My sentiment: A Gay joining the
> > Republican Party is like a Jew joining the Nazi Party.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: donnella whitacre
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2004 8:54 PM
> > Subject: Re: [rhetoric-list] Andrew Sullivan
> >
> >
> > hm you have talked to him and know this? as i stated in
> another post,
> > there were gays here who voted yes on 36, they don't believe they need
> > marriage. perhaps a civil union?
> > people are entitled to different opinions you know? that
> doesn't mean
> > they are corrupt or curring favor.
> > there are black republicans, gay ones: just because they are gays
> > doesn't mean they have to be liberal democrats you know.
> > i don't know mr. sullivan , but i agree with some things he
> says and i
> > don't agree with others.
> > that is why i love bill maher's show. he brings really different
> > people
> > together, way more interesting than letterman or the others.
> > they talk, they interact.
> >
> > eTim Fuller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Andrew Sullivan is a self hating gay, a right wing apologist
> whose
> > only
> > purpose
> > appears to be currying favor enough to survive the coming gay
> purge.
> >
> > You think I'm overstating? Consider the thirteen states that
> ban gay
> > marriage
> > on the basis of some biblical nonsense. It's supposedly done
> in the
> > name of
> > preserving traditional marriage, but it's an obvious moral
> blue law.
> > Who knows
> > what's next? Outlaw sex outside of marriage and you've given
> a green
> > light to
> > gather the gays at Guantanemo. With the supreme court in the
> > balance, a
> >
> > president
> > who's bent on returning to the 'moral' values of the 1700's.....
> >
> > Enjoy.
> >
> > donnella whitacre wrote:
> >
> > >please wesley, he is no zionist. i would not be suprised that
> you
> > back
> > him . he was on bill maher the other night and almost got booed
> off the
> > stage. alan sullivan of the new republican had a lot ot say about
> him. and
> > while i dont agree with alan all the time, he is interesting to
> listen
> > to.
> > >
> > >Wesley Parish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:omigod, Chomsky
> > was a
> > Zionist from the word go. He was also a man of impeccable
> > >scholarly integrity.
> > >
> > >The problem with Zionism was that it conflicted with his
> impeccable
> > scholarly
> > >integrity, so the two parted company.
> > >
> > >Is that why you despise him, donnella?
> > >
> > >Shalom
> > >
> > >Wesley Parish
> > >
> > >Quoting donnella whitacre <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >>chomsky is not the one to quote to me. i dispise him. sorry.
> > >>
> > >>"(ARTEMIS)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >>Noam Chomsky's The Fate of an Honest Intellectual (an excerpt
> > from his
> >
> > >>2002 book Understanding Power). Here are some quotes from that
> > article:
> > >>
> > >> From Time Immemorial ... was a big scholarly-looking book
> with lots
> > of
> > >>
> > >>footnotes, which purported to show that the Palestinians
> were all
> > recent
> > >>
> > >>immigrants ... And it was very popular -- it got literally
> > hundreds of
> > >>rave
> > >>reviews, and no negative reviews: the Washington Post, the
> New York
> > >>Times,
> > >>everybody was just raving about it. Here was this book which
> proved
> > that
> > >>
> > >>there were really no Palestinians! Of course, the implicit
> message
> > was,
> > >>if
> > >>Israel kicks them all out there's no moral issue, because
> > they're just
> >
> > >>recent immigrants who came in because the Jews had built up the
> > country.
> > >>
> > >>... That was the big intellectual hit for that year: Saul
> Bellow,
> > >>Barbara
> > >>Tuchman, everybody was talking about it as the greatest
> thing since
> > >>chocolate cake. Well, one graduate student at Princeton, a guy
> > named
> > >>Norman Finkelstein, started reading through the book. He was
> > interested
> > >>in
> > >>the history of Zionism, and as he read the book he was kind of
> > surprised
> > >>
> > >>by some of the things it said. He's a very careful student,
> and he
> > >>started
> > >>checking the references -- and it turned out that the whole
> > thing was
> > a
> > >>hoax, it was completely faked: probably it had been put
> together by
> > some
> > >>
> > >>intelligence agency ...
> > >>
> > >> Finkelstein's very persistent: he took a summer off and sat
> in the
> > New
> > >>
> > >>York Public Library, where he went through every single
> reference in
> > the
> > >>
> > >>book -- and he found a record of fraud that you cannot believe.
> > Well,
> > the
> > >>
> > >>New York intellectual community is a pretty small place, and
> pretty
> > soon
> > >>
> > >>everybody knew about this, everybody knew the book was a
> fraud ...
> > >>
> > >> Well, as soon as I heard that the book was going to come out in
> > >>England, I immediately sent copies of Finkelstein's work to
> a number
> > of
> > >>
> > >>British scholars and journalists who are interested in the
> > Middle East
> > --
> > >>
> > >>and they were ready. As soon as the book appeared, it was just
> > >>demolished,
> > >>it was blown out of the water. Every major journal, the Times
> > Literary
> >
> > >>Supplement, the London Review, the Observer, everybody had a
> review
> > >>saying, this doesn't even reach the level of nonsense, of
> > idiocy. ...
> > >>
> > >> Anyhow, by that point the American intellectual community
> realized
> > >>that the Peters book was an embarrassment, and it sort of
> > disappeared
> > --
> > >>
> > >>nobody talks about it anymore.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -----
> > >> / o o \
> > >>===OO=====OO=============================================
> > >>(4)Portals (2)News Wikis (2)Conferences - No BuSHIT!
> > >>Start here: http://pnews.org/ (On Internet since 1982)
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> > >> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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> > >>
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >"Sharpened hands are happy hands.
> > >"Brim the tinfall with mirthful bands"
> > >- A Deepness in the Sky, Vernor Vinge
> > >
> > >"I me. Shape middled me. I would come out into hot!"
> > >I from the spicy that day was overcasked mockingly - it's a
> symbol of
> > the
> > >other horizon. - emacs : meta x dissociated-press
> > >
> > >
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