HI, On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:42 AM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote:
> Rsyslog is already moving to the ASL license, so that is no difference. > Agreed. A more open license is a good thing. But it's somewhat separate from a community. I say "somewhat" because you can have more collaborative, say "multi-owner" projects with GPL, too. Though GPL will also turn off some companies, I believe. Rsyslog already has github repos (and people could clone the existing > adiscon repos to github) so that is no difference and not required by a > move to Apache in any case. > I couldn't find any github repos for Rsyslog. Rsyslog doesn't need legal services or financial services that Apache would > provide. > That's not the main thing Apache provides at all though. It provides the infrastructure (both hardware and services + mentorship and mechanism to increase chances of a project's success) the trusted brand, and most importantly "the way" - community over code being one good example. there is already a community that is providing some patches (just not > enough) > Precisely. Just not enough. It's a visibility issue. Have you heard of Voldemort? Not the character, but Kafka's cousin from LinkedIn? Easy to google. It's an *awesome* project. Super high quality. Fast. Stable. etc. etc. And in a similar situation as Rsyslog - open-source - yes, contributors welcome - yes, community - not really, growth - not really, fallen behind compared to other similar but more open projects - oh yes. Why? Because despite it being open-source it is really LinkedIn guys that are its only real owners, only real developers. Everyone else doesn't want to put a lot of effort in it because of that. On the other hand, Cassandra and HBase, which are similar to Voldemort, have flourished (both at Apache). just changing ownership to the apache project doesn't always result in more > contributers (see Apache Open Office vs LibreOffice as an example) > Agree. That is why there is Apache Incubator. That said, I think the success rate is higher than failure rate. Esp. for established projects like Rsyslog. I think in case of OO and LO, there were some other (legal? philosophical? spouts, no?) how would contributions be easier if rsyslog was an Apache project? right > now contributions can be sent in and are generally accepted very promptly. > It's not about contributing. That's where it starts. It's about earning (merit-based) committer status and being able to make Rsyslog better faster. In spite of the 'that would rock' messages when the github repos were > discussed, that hasn't resulted in any additional contributions that I am > aware of. > 2 things: 1) I couldn't even find the Github repo 2) 6 months (has it been?) is not a long time for this sort of thing. on the downside, there would be more administrative work that would need to > be done, and it would distract the people doing the most work, resulting in > less development for a while while the transition was made. That's true. There is a bit of initial cost there. Luckily it's been done so many times now that the procedure is not a mystery. And there are mentors (and mechanisms!) to help with that. Otis -- Performance Monitoring * Log Analytics * Search Analytics Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ > On Thu, 12 Dec 2013, Radu Gheorghe wrote: > > Hi, >> >> I'll leave it to Otis to give more details, because he's an Apache >> committer, but I believe there's a misunderstanding here. >> >> An Apache project can still be backed up by a commercial company. Lots of >> projects are, like Solr, Flume (another logging product!) and so on. The >> main advantage I see is that it's easier for the community to contribute >> and drive the project forward. It's a model that seems to work for >> open-source software, and lots of projects who got in there are doing very >> well - very active, growing, lots of people offering >> consulting&support&professional services, building more complex products >> on >> top of them, packaging them in various ways, etc >> >> I think this is an idea that would help drive more contributions and >> hopefully solve the 24 hours/day problem that keeps popping up lately, >> more >> and more as rsyslog gets more attention. To prove the "attention" theory, >> let's look at some trends for rsyslog and some other products that came up >> in discussions lately: >> http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=rsyslog%2C% >> 20logstash%2C%20syslog-ng&cmpt=q >> >> And the mailing list traffic: >> http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.sysutils.rsyslog >> >> Maybe going to Apache would be a crazy idea in the sense that it requires >> following that procedure. And people already have too little time. Maybe a >> less crazy idea is just to put it on GitHub or somewhere similar where it >> would be easy to just send pull requests. This will not only make code >> patches easier, but I'm thinking at documentation, tests, issues, all in >> one place. >> >> Not only contributions would be easier, but it would make things would be >> more visible. Your github profile counts for many as some sort of CV. The >> more&better you contribute, the more awesome you are (think job >> opportunities and such). For the project, it would make it easier to see >> how it evolves: contributions, issues, wiki - again, all in one place. >> That >> is familiar to many. >> >> Apache takes this idea to a higher level, as far as I understand, so crazy >> could be crazy-good. *Could be* - I don't know, really, I'm lacking >> knowledge about how Adiscon and Apache works, although I have some idea >> about both. Otis, maybe you can say some more about the advantages (and >> disadvantages)? >> >> And I'm obviously curious about what the Adiscon guys have to say about >> this. >> >> Best regards, >> Radu >> >> 2013/12/11 Boylan, James <[email protected]> >> >> I agree with David. As a business who developsand supports a product, I >>> can't see any reason for Adiscon to do so unless they decide to no longer >>> support and develop the software. >>> >>> -- James >>> -- Sent from my mobile -- >>> >>> ----- Reply message ----- >>> From: "David Lang" <[email protected]> >>> To: "rsyslog-users" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: [rsyslog] Rsyslog => Apache? >>> Date: Wed, Dec 11, 2013 3:09 PM >>> >>> not being an adiscon person, my first question is why they would want to >>> do >>> that? >>> >>> David Lang >>> >>> On Wed, 11 Dec 2013, Otis Gospodnetic wrote: >>> >>> Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 16:05:11 -0500 >>>> From: Otis Gospodnetic <[email protected]> >>>> Reply-To: rsyslog-users <[email protected]> >>>> To: rsyslog-users <[email protected]> >>>> Subject: [rsyslog] Rsyslog => Apache? >>>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> Maybe this is a completely crazy question, but has Adiscon ever >>>> >>> considered >>> >>>> moving Rsyslog to Apache? >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> Otis >>>> -- >>>> Performance Monitoring * Log Analytics * Search Analytics >>>> Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rsyslog mailing list >>>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >>>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >>>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >>>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad >>>> >>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >>> DON'T LIKE THAT. >>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> rsyslog mailing list >>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad >>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >>> DON'T LIKE THAT. >>> _______________________________________________ >>> rsyslog mailing list >>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad >>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >>> DON'T LIKE THAT. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> rsyslog mailing list >> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad >> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >> DON'T LIKE THAT. >> >> _______________________________________________ > rsyslog mailing list > http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad > of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > DON'T LIKE THAT. > _______________________________________________ rsyslog mailing list http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you DON'T LIKE THAT.
