Hi David, Thanks for your thoughts on this. Please consider my email just feedback from a user that is probably more common than the *ideal* user you are describing - keeping the system up to date, knowing everything about it, etc. etc. Yes, I know, ideally we'd all know all our systems inside out, but only the rare samurais among us actually know them that well. I would imagine a lot of people copy-paste those nicely written commands and find themselves in trouble when they can't ctrl-Z the update.
Anyhow, just my 1 cent :) Otis -- Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 7:16 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: > This is a problem that the people managing the system need to figure out. > If they aren't keeping current then they are going to be in trouble over a > lot of needed updates. > > The best way to handle the case where you want to update some things and > not others is to run your own repository internally that you only put the > things in that you intend to update. > > It is possible for someone to install the packages and any needed > depenancies manually, and if someone is avoiding updates explicitly, they > should know their distro's packaging system well enough to do this. > > If someone is just not updating their system and doesn't have a plan that > could handle installing rsyslog, then they also can't recreate the system > if it were to get corrupted, or patch a bug in apache, or other such things. > > So I think that the instructions provided by Rsyslog are the best ones to > be offering, if people don't know any better, they really should be > updating all the software on their system as the distro provides updates > (note, this isn't the same as saying that they need to upgrade to the new > distro release, just that all updates within a release should be either > applied or deliberatly not applied) > > David Lang > > On Mon, 20 Oct 2014, Otis Gospodnetic wrote: > > Hi, >> >> I'm not Mr. Packager either, but my understanding is that the rsyslog >> upgrade doc basically provides a command that updates the whole system, >> not just rsyslog, and that may not only be unnecessary, but is also scary >> and bad because it could update all kinds of stuff. Note that I didn't >> try >> it myself and am acting as a messenger & interpreter here. >> >> Otis >> -- >> Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management >> Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Rainer Gerhards < >> [email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> I am not a packaging person... Does the install rsyslog also take care of >>> its dependencies? If so, the install is for sure better advise. >>> >>> Rainer >>> >>> Sent from phone, thus brief. >>> Am 20.10.2014 20:18 schrieb "Otis Gospodnetic" < >>> [email protected] >>> >>>> : >>>> >>> >>> Hello, >>>> >>>> Btw. here is some feedback from one of the Logsene users regarding >>>> >>> rsyslog >>> >>>> update instructions: >>>> >>>> just a small feedback on http://www.rsyslog.com/ubuntu-repository/ doc >>>> >>>> Step 3 is "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:21 AM >>>> I guess that it is not a good advice to tell people to run sudo apt-get >>>> upgrade >>>> They are installing rsyslog and doesn't expect their server to update >>>> >>> other >>> >>>> components >>>> as Cassandra in my case >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:22 AM >>>> I took care of it but you might trip someone who would not take care >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:25 AM >>>> Yeah, no problem, we'll point it out to rsyslog people, although they >>>> are >>>> hard-core so I'm pretty sure this is not a mistake and there is a reason >>>> they wrote that >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:37 AM >>>> It looks pretty dangerous and useless to me. An update followed by a >>>> install rsyslog are just fine and a lot safer imho. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I hope this helps. >>>> >>>> Otis >>>> -- >>>> Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management >>>> Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 10:53 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Thu, 9 Oct 2014, Otis Gospodnetic wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We recently had a new Logsene <http://sematext.com/logsene/> user who >>>>>> >>>>> had >>>> >>>>> some issues tailing a file with application logs and sending them to >>>>>> >>>>> our >>> >>>> rsyslog. After some digging we looked at the rsyslog version. It >>>>>> >>>>> turned >>>> >>>>> out to be 5.x. Ancient! But even scarier was that this was on Ubuntu >>>>>> 12.04, which I still think of as relatively new! And then I looked at >>>>>> Ubuntu 14.04 and the upcoming 14.10 and it looks like they only have >>>>>> 7.4.4. I then looked at CentOS 7, which is really new, and that also >>>>>> >>>>> has >>>> >>>>> 7.4.x! >>>>>> >>>>>> Aren't all of these quite old and quite different from 8.4.x? >>>>>> Are there *any* semi-common/popular Linux distros that have rsyslog >>>>>> >>>>> 8.x? >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>> 8.x came out just too late to make it into the early 2014 distros as >>>>> >>>> the >>> >>>> default >>>>> >>>>> Finally, is there anything Adiscon could do or is doing to get 8.x >>>>> >>>> into >>> >>>> new >>>>>> versions of some of the more popular Linux distros? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Adiscon (and others) are providing packages of the new versions that >>>>> >>>> can >>> >>>> be installed in the older distros, there are PPA repositories for >>>>> >>>> Ubuntu. >>> >>>> >>>>> The problem is that distros are always going to lag behind current >>>>> development, and the faster the pace of development, the more they will >>>>> lag. Part of the problem is the delay from when versions are selected >>>>> >>>> and >>> >>>> the time that the distro is released. >>>>> >>>>> In case of Logsene, if we see people having trouble with rsyslog >>>>> >>>> simply >>> >>>> because their distros have very old versions of rsyslog, we may simply >>>>>> have >>>>>> to recommend Logstash, because when we recommend that we can be pretty >>>>>> sure >>>>>> people will either have or will get one of the more recent >>>>>> >>>>> versions.... >>> >>>> and >>>>>> this is probably much easier to install because, I assume, manually >>>>>> updating rsyslog is tricky because of dependencies, packages, etc. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> If you look at the versions of logstash that are in the distros, you >>>>> >>>> will >>> >>>> see that they are as old as the versions of rsyslog. >>>>> >>>>> But you are assuming incorrectly that there is a huge dependency >>>>> >>>> problem >>> >>>> installing a new rsyslog package. I would suggest that you try it and >>>>> >>>> see >>> >>>> how easy it is. >>>>> >>>>> I was wondering if there is anything that could be done about this >>>>> >>>> from >>> >>>> rsyslog or Adiscon side? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Only the distro maintainers can update the versions that are included >>>>> >>>> in >>> >>>> the distros. I don't know why they stuck with 5.x for so long (they >>>>> basically ignored 6.x and didn't start including 7.x until 8.x was >>>>> >>>> already >>>> >>>>> out). There isn't much that Adiscon or the Rsyslog developers can do. >>>>> >>>>> Seriously, try updating from the Adiscon repositories/PPA, it's really >>>>> easy. >>>>> >>>>> David Lang >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> rsyslog mailing list >>>>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >>>>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >>>>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >>>>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a >>>>> >>>> myriad >>> >>>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >>>>> DON'T LIKE THAT. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> rsyslog mailing list >>>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >>>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >>>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >>>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad >>>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >>>> DON'T LIKE THAT. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> rsyslog mailing list >>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad >>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >>> DON'T LIKE THAT. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >> rsyslog mailing list >> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog >> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ >> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards >> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad >> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you >> DON'T LIKE THAT. >> >> _______________________________________________ > rsyslog mailing list > http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad > of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > DON'T LIKE THAT. > _______________________________________________ rsyslog mailing list http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you DON'T LIKE THAT.
