One of my points is that the less knowlegable the user is about the system, the
more they should rely on the distro maintainers and update anything that the
distro maintainers consider important enough to change.
It's only when you know your system inside and out that you can make the
decision that it's safe to _not_ upgrade something.
David Lang
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:
Hi David,
Thanks for your thoughts on this. Please consider my email just feedback
from a user that is probably more common than the *ideal* user you are
describing - keeping the system up to date, knowing everything about it,
etc. etc. Yes, I know, ideally we'd all know all our systems inside out,
but only the rare samurais among us actually know them that well. I would
imagine a lot of people copy-paste those nicely written commands and find
themselves in trouble when they can't ctrl-Z the update.
Anyhow, just my 1 cent :)
Otis
--
Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management
Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 7:16 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote:
This is a problem that the people managing the system need to figure out.
If they aren't keeping current then they are going to be in trouble over a
lot of needed updates.
The best way to handle the case where you want to update some things and
not others is to run your own repository internally that you only put the
things in that you intend to update.
It is possible for someone to install the packages and any needed
depenancies manually, and if someone is avoiding updates explicitly, they
should know their distro's packaging system well enough to do this.
If someone is just not updating their system and doesn't have a plan that
could handle installing rsyslog, then they also can't recreate the system
if it were to get corrupted, or patch a bug in apache, or other such things.
So I think that the instructions provided by Rsyslog are the best ones to
be offering, if people don't know any better, they really should be
updating all the software on their system as the distro provides updates
(note, this isn't the same as saying that they need to upgrade to the new
distro release, just that all updates within a release should be either
applied or deliberatly not applied)
David Lang
On Mon, 20 Oct 2014, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:
Hi,
I'm not Mr. Packager either, but my understanding is that the rsyslog
upgrade doc basically provides a command that updates the whole system,
not just rsyslog, and that may not only be unnecessary, but is also scary
and bad because it could update all kinds of stuff. Note that I didn't
try
it myself and am acting as a messenger & interpreter here.
Otis
--
Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management
Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/
On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Rainer Gerhards <
[email protected]>
wrote:
I am not a packaging person... Does the install rsyslog also take care of
its dependencies? If so, the install is for sure better advise.
Rainer
Sent from phone, thus brief.
Am 20.10.2014 20:18 schrieb "Otis Gospodnetic" <
[email protected]
:
Hello,
Btw. here is some feedback from one of the Logsene users regarding
rsyslog
update instructions:
just a small feedback on http://www.rsyslog.com/ubuntu-repository/ doc
Step 3 is "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade"
Monday, October 20 2014 9:21 AM
I guess that it is not a good advice to tell people to run sudo apt-get
upgrade
They are installing rsyslog and doesn't expect their server to update
other
components
as Cassandra in my case
Monday, October 20 2014 9:22 AM
I took care of it but you might trip someone who would not take care
Monday, October 20 2014 9:25 AM
Yeah, no problem, we'll point it out to rsyslog people, although they
are
hard-core so I'm pretty sure this is not a mistake and there is a reason
they wrote that
Monday, October 20 2014 9:37 AM
It looks pretty dangerous and useless to me. An update followed by a
install rsyslog are just fine and a lot safer imho.
I hope this helps.
Otis
--
Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management
Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/
On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 10:53 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote:
On Thu, 9 Oct 2014, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:
Hello,
We recently had a new Logsene <http://sematext.com/logsene/> user who
had
some issues tailing a file with application logs and sending them to
our
rsyslog. After some digging we looked at the rsyslog version. It
turned
out to be 5.x. Ancient! But even scarier was that this was on Ubuntu
12.04, which I still think of as relatively new! And then I looked at
Ubuntu 14.04 and the upcoming 14.10 and it looks like they only have
7.4.4. I then looked at CentOS 7, which is really new, and that also
has
7.4.x!
Aren't all of these quite old and quite different from 8.4.x?
Are there *any* semi-common/popular Linux distros that have rsyslog
8.x?
8.x came out just too late to make it into the early 2014 distros as
the
default
Finally, is there anything Adiscon could do or is doing to get 8.x
into
new
versions of some of the more popular Linux distros?
Adiscon (and others) are providing packages of the new versions that
can
be installed in the older distros, there are PPA repositories for
Ubuntu.
The problem is that distros are always going to lag behind current
development, and the faster the pace of development, the more they will
lag. Part of the problem is the delay from when versions are selected
and
the time that the distro is released.
In case of Logsene, if we see people having trouble with rsyslog
simply
because their distros have very old versions of rsyslog, we may simply
have
to recommend Logstash, because when we recommend that we can be pretty
sure
people will either have or will get one of the more recent
versions....
and
this is probably much easier to install because, I assume, manually
updating rsyslog is tricky because of dependencies, packages, etc.
If you look at the versions of logstash that are in the distros, you
will
see that they are as old as the versions of rsyslog.
But you are assuming incorrectly that there is a huge dependency
problem
installing a new rsyslog package. I would suggest that you try it and
see
how easy it is.
I was wondering if there is anything that could be done about this
from
rsyslog or Adiscon side?
Only the distro maintainers can update the versions that are included
in
the distros. I don't know why they stuck with 5.x for so long (they
basically ignored 6.x and didn't start including 7.x until 8.x was
already
out). There isn't much that Adiscon or the Rsyslog developers can do.
Seriously, try updating from the Adiscon repositories/PPA, it's really
easy.
David Lang
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