2014-10-21 3:37 GMT+02:00 Otis Gospodnetic <[email protected]>:
> Hi David, > > Thanks for your thoughts on this. Please consider my email just feedback > from a user that is probably more common than the *ideal* user you are > describing - keeping the system up to date, knowing everything about it, > etc. etc. Just a side-note, even though it's none of my business: I think not keeping a system current requires much more skill, at least if you want to do it securely. After all, in that case you need to know which security updates to install, which dependencies exist for packages you do not want to upgrade for a reason and so on. But again, that's not for me to judge. I've now tried the install instructions on Debian again. If I leave out the "upgrade" step and just install rsyslog, the system automatically seems to pull in the dependencies. So it probably is good advise to remove that upgrade step. Keep in mind, though, that dependencies - whatever they be - are installed. And dependencies can have more dependencies... Thanks, Rainer > Yes, I know, ideally we'd all know all our systems inside out, > but only the rare samurais among us actually know them that well. I would > imagine a lot of people copy-paste those nicely written commands and find > themselves in trouble when they can't ctrl-Z the update. > > Anyhow, just my 1 cent :) > > Otis > -- > Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management > Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ > > > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 7:16 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: > > > This is a problem that the people managing the system need to figure out. > > If they aren't keeping current then they are going to be in trouble over > a > > lot of needed updates. > > > > The best way to handle the case where you want to update some things and > > not others is to run your own repository internally that you only put the > > things in that you intend to update. > > > > It is possible for someone to install the packages and any needed > > depenancies manually, and if someone is avoiding updates explicitly, they > > should know their distro's packaging system well enough to do this. > > > > If someone is just not updating their system and doesn't have a plan that > > could handle installing rsyslog, then they also can't recreate the system > > if it were to get corrupted, or patch a bug in apache, or other such > things. > > > > So I think that the instructions provided by Rsyslog are the best ones to > > be offering, if people don't know any better, they really should be > > updating all the software on their system as the distro provides updates > > (note, this isn't the same as saying that they need to upgrade to the new > > distro release, just that all updates within a release should be either > > applied or deliberatly not applied) > > > > David Lang > > > > On Mon, 20 Oct 2014, Otis Gospodnetic wrote: > > > > Hi, > >> > >> I'm not Mr. Packager either, but my understanding is that the rsyslog > >> upgrade doc basically provides a command that updates the whole system, > >> not just rsyslog, and that may not only be unnecessary, but is also > scary > >> and bad because it could update all kinds of stuff. Note that I didn't > >> try > >> it myself and am acting as a messenger & interpreter here. > >> > >> Otis > >> -- > >> Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management > >> Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ > >> > >> > >> On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Rainer Gerhards < > >> [email protected]> > >> wrote: > >> > >> I am not a packaging person... Does the install rsyslog also take care > of > >>> its dependencies? If so, the install is for sure better advise. > >>> > >>> Rainer > >>> > >>> Sent from phone, thus brief. > >>> Am 20.10.2014 20:18 schrieb "Otis Gospodnetic" < > >>> [email protected] > >>> > >>>> : > >>>> > >>> > >>> Hello, > >>>> > >>>> Btw. here is some feedback from one of the Logsene users regarding > >>>> > >>> rsyslog > >>> > >>>> update instructions: > >>>> > >>>> just a small feedback on http://www.rsyslog.com/ubuntu-repository/ > doc > >>>> > >>>> Step 3 is "sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get upgrade" > >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:21 AM > >>>> I guess that it is not a good advice to tell people to run sudo > apt-get > >>>> upgrade > >>>> They are installing rsyslog and doesn't expect their server to update > >>>> > >>> other > >>> > >>>> components > >>>> as Cassandra in my case > >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:22 AM > >>>> I took care of it but you might trip someone who would not take care > >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:25 AM > >>>> Yeah, no problem, we'll point it out to rsyslog people, although they > >>>> are > >>>> hard-core so I'm pretty sure this is not a mistake and there is a > reason > >>>> they wrote that > >>>> Monday, October 20 2014 9:37 AM > >>>> It looks pretty dangerous and useless to me. An update followed by a > >>>> install rsyslog are just fine and a lot safer imho. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> I hope this helps. > >>>> > >>>> Otis > >>>> -- > >>>> Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management > >>>> Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2014 at 10:53 PM, David Lang <[email protected]> wrote: > >>>> > >>>> On Thu, 9 Oct 2014, Otis Gospodnetic wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hello, > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> We recently had a new Logsene <http://sematext.com/logsene/> user > who > >>>>>> > >>>>> had > >>>> > >>>>> some issues tailing a file with application logs and sending them to > >>>>>> > >>>>> our > >>> > >>>> rsyslog. After some digging we looked at the rsyslog version. It > >>>>>> > >>>>> turned > >>>> > >>>>> out to be 5.x. Ancient! But even scarier was that this was on > Ubuntu > >>>>>> 12.04, which I still think of as relatively new! And then I looked > at > >>>>>> Ubuntu 14.04 and the upcoming 14.10 and it looks like they only have > >>>>>> 7.4.4. I then looked at CentOS 7, which is really new, and that > also > >>>>>> > >>>>> has > >>>> > >>>>> 7.4.x! > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Aren't all of these quite old and quite different from 8.4.x? > >>>>>> Are there *any* semi-common/popular Linux distros that have rsyslog > >>>>>> > >>>>> 8.x? > >>> > >>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> 8.x came out just too late to make it into the early 2014 distros as > >>>>> > >>>> the > >>> > >>>> default > >>>>> > >>>>> Finally, is there anything Adiscon could do or is doing to get 8.x > >>>>> > >>>> into > >>> > >>>> new > >>>>>> versions of some of the more popular Linux distros? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Adiscon (and others) are providing packages of the new versions that > >>>>> > >>>> can > >>> > >>>> be installed in the older distros, there are PPA repositories for > >>>>> > >>>> Ubuntu. > >>> > >>>> > >>>>> The problem is that distros are always going to lag behind current > >>>>> development, and the faster the pace of development, the more they > will > >>>>> lag. Part of the problem is the delay from when versions are selected > >>>>> > >>>> and > >>> > >>>> the time that the distro is released. > >>>>> > >>>>> In case of Logsene, if we see people having trouble with rsyslog > >>>>> > >>>> simply > >>> > >>>> because their distros have very old versions of rsyslog, we may simply > >>>>>> have > >>>>>> to recommend Logstash, because when we recommend that we can be > pretty > >>>>>> sure > >>>>>> people will either have or will get one of the more recent > >>>>>> > >>>>> versions.... > >>> > >>>> and > >>>>>> this is probably much easier to install because, I assume, manually > >>>>>> updating rsyslog is tricky because of dependencies, packages, etc. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> If you look at the versions of logstash that are in the distros, you > >>>>> > >>>> will > >>> > >>>> see that they are as old as the versions of rsyslog. > >>>>> > >>>>> But you are assuming incorrectly that there is a huge dependency > >>>>> > >>>> problem > >>> > >>>> installing a new rsyslog package. I would suggest that you try it and > >>>>> > >>>> see > >>> > >>>> how easy it is. > >>>>> > >>>>> I was wondering if there is anything that could be done about this > >>>>> > >>>> from > >>> > >>>> rsyslog or Adiscon side? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> Only the distro maintainers can update the versions that are included > >>>>> > >>>> in > >>> > >>>> the distros. I don't know why they stuck with 5.x for so long (they > >>>>> basically ignored 6.x and didn't start including 7.x until 8.x was > >>>>> > >>>> already > >>>> > >>>>> out). There isn't much that Adiscon or the Rsyslog developers can do. > >>>>> > >>>>> Seriously, try updating from the Adiscon repositories/PPA, it's > really > >>>>> easy. > >>>>> > >>>>> David Lang > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> rsyslog mailing list > >>>>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > >>>>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > >>>>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > >>>>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a > >>>>> > >>>> myriad > >>> > >>>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > >>>>> DON'T LIKE THAT. > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> rsyslog mailing list > >>>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > >>>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > >>>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > >>>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a > myriad > >>>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > >>>> DON'T LIKE THAT. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>> rsyslog mailing list > >>> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > >>> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > >>> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > >>> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a > myriad > >>> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > >>> DON'T LIKE THAT. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >> rsyslog mailing list > >> http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > >> http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > >> What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > >> NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad > >> of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > >> DON'T LIKE THAT. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > > rsyslog mailing list > > http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > > http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > > What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > > NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad > > of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > > DON'T LIKE THAT. > > > _______________________________________________ > rsyslog mailing list > http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog > http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ > What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards > NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad > of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you > DON'T LIKE THAT. > _______________________________________________ rsyslog mailing list http://lists.adiscon.net/mailman/listinfo/rsyslog http://www.rsyslog.com/professional-services/ What's up with rsyslog? Follow https://twitter.com/rgerhards NOTE WELL: This is a PUBLIC mailing list, posts are ARCHIVED by a myriad of sites beyond our control. PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE and DO NOT POST if you DON'T LIKE THAT.
