[gentoo-dev] package up for grabs (almost everything in the livecd herd)

2009-12-31 Thread Andrew Gaffney
[I'm resending this, because I never saw it come through last week.]

In the olden days, the livecd herd was basically wolf31o2 and covered any
packages that releng had a passing interest in, even if not directly used during
the release building process. Since wolf31o2 retired over a year ago, many of
the packages owned by the livecd herd have basically become unmaintained (except
for the ones that I myself have an interest in).

If you are interested in any of the below packages, feel free to steal it (and
change the maintainer and herd bit in the metadata.xml).

app-arch/pbzip2 - We pondered using it at some point to take advantage of all
   the shiny new multi-proc boxes that releng and its members had laying around
app-admin/pwgen - This is used by the LiveCD to generate a "random" password.
   It looks like upstream hasn't touched this since it was last bumped in the
   tree.
dev-python/pyparted - Used by the now defunct GLI
sys-apps/hwdata-gentoo - Data used by sys-apps/hwsetup
sys-apps/hwsetup - Used for hardware (video mostly) detection for LiveCD
sys-apps/parted - Required by dev-python/pyparted
sys-fs/squashfs-tools - Used by catalyst to create loop image
sys-libs/libkudzu - needed by sys-apps/hwsetup

-- 
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] Regarding Gentoo CDs and accessibility sizes

2009-05-25 Thread Andrew Gaffney

On 05/25/2009 07:44 PM, Keith Hinton wrote:

Hello,
I'm afraidd I'm not seeing   the size issues. Adding Speech to a
LiveCD should not effect the operations of the minimal installation
CDs that much.
However, one thing I would suggest is to please be aware of two things:
1.
Make sure that some boot prompt exists for users to activate the
LiveCD speech output.
I.e.
Gentoo speech
That kind of thing.
2.
Lynx and other browsers with Speakup usually need some configuration,
along with Irssi.
You can't just open Irssi right off the shelf and expect speech-access to it.


Why do you keep creating new threads just to interject your random opinion about 
some other existing thread? Have you ever participated in a mailing list? This 
isn't IM/IRC.


--
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: Accessibility on our release media

2009-05-24 Thread Andrew Gaffney

On 05/24/2009 05:32 AM, Roy Bamford wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 2009.05.24 02:44, William Hubbs wrote:
[snip]

Random reply to thread

William Hubbs
gentoo accessibility team lead
willi...@gentoo.org



Put all the downloads for a minimal gentoo install into dial up
context. You need the minimal CD, the stage 3, the portage snapshot, a
bootloader and a kernel.

An extra 20Mb in that total size is trivial.

Having done a few remote installs for blind users dropping into
#gentoo, I understand the frustration that lack of accessibility
causes.

Please add accessibility to Gentoo install media and help our users to
help themselves.


Since my only real argument against it (size) has been effectively shot down, if 
someone does all the testing/patching and provides a nice, neat little package 
for releng (me, basically) to integrate, we'll do it. I just don't have the 
time/inclination to do it myself.


--
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] rfc: Accessibility on our release media

2009-05-23 Thread Andrew Gaffney

On 05/23/2009 05:56 PM, Mounir Lamouri wrote:

William Hubbs wrote:

[snip]
My question for the group is, how do you feel about speech software
being on our minimal cd as well as our live cd?

I agree, it should be in our minimal and live CD's. There is no reason
to consider blind persons out of the minimal CD.


The real issue here is the size. If these additional packages plus all of the 
alsa modules add 20MB to the minimal CD, it's just not worth it. It's not 
"minimal" anymore.


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Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] `paludis --info' is not like `emerge --info'

2009-04-05 Thread Andrew Gaffney
Andrew D Kirch wrote:
> I think it's best as a general rule to NEVER _EVER_ under any
> circumstances emulate paludis.

While I'm not personally a fan of paludis, it doesn't help anyone to post crap
like that to any mailing list. Please take it elsewhere. Thanks.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] Collecting opinions about GLEP 55 and alternatives

2009-02-25 Thread Andrew Gaffney
Brian Harring wrote:
> 
> 4) eapi as a function; instead of "EAPI=1", do "eapi 1", required as 
>  the first statement (simplest way).
>  pros:
>   - global scope changes can occur (inherit mechanism changes 
> included).
>   - expanding on the first, auto inherits (pkg level) are possible- 
> effectively when eapi gets invoked the manager is in control and 
> can do whatever is desired setting up the env wise.
>   - bash version requirements can be leveled (bash parses as it goes, 
> meaning that essentially it won't parse what follows 'eapi 2' till 
> that command statement finishes)
>   - fits w/ the existing semantics nicely enough.
>  cons:
>   - mangling the version rules for pkgs still isn't possible; no -scm.  
> Arguable if -scm is even desired, but being explicit about it not 
> covering this.
>   - transition is slightly icky; basically one of the following is 
> required-
>a) for EAPI>=2, do 'eapi 3 || die "upgrade your manager"'.  Reason 
> for this is that current managers obviously lack an eapi function, 
> to make managers available *now* blow up the || die is required.  
> This solution can be deployed now, no transition required although 
> at some point stating "eapi is required retroactively for all 
> eapis" would be wise to eliminate the need for the || die (cut 
> support basically for old managers)
>b) bashrc trickery, defines an eapi if it's unset.  Said eapi 
> function exports EAPI=$1, optionally triggering a die if the eapi 
> isn't 0,1,2 (since any later eapi would require a manager upgrade 
> which would also have the eapi function).
> 
> Personally, if g54 is ixnayed #4 I tend to think is the best option 
> out there- if g54 is forced in, g55 (or at least something that 
> adjusts the extension to make it invisible to current managers) is 
> required.
> 
> Commentary?  Tend to think #4 is the most aesthetically pleasing to 
> folk, but who knows...
> ~harring

I really like this idea, but nobody else seems to have commented on it.

-- 
Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
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Re: [gentoo-dev] Advice regarding backporting to Gentoo from Tin Hat.

2009-01-31 Thread Andrew Gaffney
basile wrote:
> Point 4 is what I think would be useful to Gentoo mainstream.  The
> speed one gets from RAM totally beats a LiveCD using unionfs which has
> to periodically return to the slow cdrom.

This is already possible. With current genkernel (genkernel- or
genkernel-3.4.10.903), you can boot with 'docache unionfs', which will copy the
squashfs to tmpfs, mount it, and then use unionfs-fuse to create a union with
another tmpfs.

Genkernel has offered the 'docache' option for quite a while, which has mostly
the safe effect, but without the unionfs, it uses nasty tricks like copying some
stuff to a tmpfs and then doing lots of symlinks into the squashfs.

Either way, it's entirely memory based after initial boot.

-- 
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Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] Why recently published stage3 tarball did not contain a /etc/make.conf.example?

2009-01-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney
Cheng Renquan wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Andrew Gaffney  wrote:
>> Cheng Renquan wrote:
>>> Why recently published stage3 tarball did not contain a 
>>> /etc/make.conf.example?
>>>
>>> http://distfiles.gentoo.org/experimental/amd64/autobuilds/20090115/stage3-amd64-20090115.tar.bz2
>>>
>>> but the /etc/make.conf said:
>>>
>>> # Please consult /etc/make.conf.example for a more detailed example.
>>>
>>> If plan to remove that example file, why still keep this comment?
>> The file is provided by portage, and the installed location was changed 
>> recently
>> to /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example.
> 
> So then that comment in /etc/make.conf should be fixed? Thanks.

I've already made this change in catalyst git, but there is no new release with 
it.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why recently published stage3 tarball did not contain a /etc/make.conf.example?

2009-01-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney
Cheng Renquan wrote:
> Why recently published stage3 tarball did not contain a 
> /etc/make.conf.example?
> 
> http://distfiles.gentoo.org/experimental/amd64/autobuilds/20090115/stage3-amd64-20090115.tar.bz2
> 
> but the /etc/make.conf said:
> 
> # Please consult /etc/make.conf.example for a more detailed example.
> 
> If plan to remove that example file, why still keep this comment?

The file is provided by portage, and the installed location was changed recently
to /usr/share/portage/config/make.conf.example.

-- 
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Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] kerberos USE flag

2008-10-31 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Mart Raudsepp wrote:

On Fri, 2008-10-31 at 15:50 -0600, Joe Peterson wrote:

Michael Hammer wrote:

* Doug Goldstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [081031 15:53]:

If no one opposes, I say we redact this USE flag asap.

++

I was also wondering why kerberos was on by default - I definitely
approve of nuking it.


I'm believe the primary reason is for release LiveCD's.
They ship with evolution-exchange, and that requires
evolution/evolution-data-server to be built with USE=kerberos
They don't do /etc/portage business, so it's a global USE flag to get
things like GRP packages to work right.


If that's the case, then I say whack it from global USE and change it to an IUSE 
default (or whatever is in vogue these days) for eds.


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Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for October

2008-10-09 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Thu, 09 Oct 2008 12:11:23 -0700
Zac Medico <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm guessing it's too late to ask the Council to discuss the "EAPI
2 is brokened :(" thread? What would be the earliest the Council
would be able to make a decision upon that? Unfortunately it's
something that could get messy if left for too long.

I think that you may be overreacting. The python-2.6 ebuild from bug
  240684 is still hard masked in package.mask and I'm doing a
sys-apps/portage-2.2_rc12 release today that will fix the problem.


What about pkgcore?


It's not Gentoo's primary package manager, so it probably doesn't matter if it 
goes a few days without getting fixed. The worst that happens is a few people 
get failed builds, right?


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Gentoo Linux DeveloperCatalyst/Genkernel + Release Engineering Lead



Re: [gentoo-dev] genkernel support uuid for real_resume

2008-10-04 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Please submit this through the proper channels (bugzilla).

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

This patch add support uuid for real_resume boot option.

example:

# /boot/grub/menu.lst

timeout 30
default 0

color light-gray/bluetitle  Gentoo
root (hd0,1)
kernel /boot/kernel-genkernel-x86-2.6.25-gentoo-r7 
real_root=UUID=d5587595-72aa-48e9-a6ba-43daa8e16db1 
real_resume=UUID=5f267a01-971a-4440-99aa-04ac28145db1 vga=794

initrd /boot/initramfs-genkernel-x86-2.6.25-gentoo-r7






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Andrew Gaffney http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/
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[gentoo-dev] request for Willikins

2008-09-04 Thread Andrew Gaffney
At robbat2's request, I'm requesting Willikins's presence in #-server and 
#-releng. Thanks. My sub to this list is -nomail, so I won't see any replies.


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[gentoo-dev] renaming of the 'gimli' SVN repo

2007-12-22 Thread Andrew Gaffney
This email probably isn't necessary, and most people won't care about this. 
However, sending it was one of robbat2's terms for renaming this SVN repo, so 
here it is :P


The current repo name 'gimli' was the original name of the project a long time 
ago. The name of the project is now Scire, and we've gotten tired of looking at 
the old repo name.


If you have this repo checked out, you can either check it out again, or use one 
of the following commands:


svn switch --relocate svn+ssh://svn.gentoo.org/var/svnroot/gimli 
svn+ssh://svn.gentoo.org/var/svnroot/scire (for devs)


OR

svn switch --relocate http://anonsvn.gentoo.org/repositories/gimli 
http://anonsvn.gentoo.org/repositories/scire (for users of anonsvn)


Thanks.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Latest Gentoo installcd lacks lsusb

2007-10-14 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Alon Bar-Lev wrote:

Hello All,

I may be totally wrong here (as usual)... But before I let it go, I
think we require some more views regarding this matter.

lsusb is not included in latest installcd, I believe that determine
available USB devices is important to bootstrap installation, in order
to detect network card, ADSL modem, determine which USB mass storage
exists and more.

Release engineering believes that as there is no dependency of libusb,
lsusb should not be provided as it is not required for installation.

Ignoring comment#7, bug is available at:
https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=195666

If you think lsusb is important or not important for installcd, please
help explain why.


Seriously, wtf is your problem? Why do you keep challenging the decisions made 
by release engineering, first on bugs and then on the MLs when you don't get 
your way? Chris is the head of Release Engineering, which means he gets to make 
the decisions relevant to the install media. He's been doing it a long time, and 
there have been very few people that have disagreed with what he does.


The install CD is a *minimal* install medium. In very few cases (if any) is it 
absolutely necessary to be able to identify all USB devices attached to your 
system in order to do an install. If you are one of the few people who find it 
absolutely necessary to do so, you're absolutely free to use the LiveCD, which 
does have lsusb, and if it doesn't, it would be a handy thing to have on there, 
and you should file bug to have it included on the LiveCD *only*.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] New developer : Mike Pagano (mpagano)

2007-10-03 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Denis Dupeyron wrote:

Yes people, Mike is older than Uncle Seemant, and even older than me.


But is he older than nerdboy? Do we have competition for the Crotchety Old Man 
title? Are we going to hear lots of stories that start with "when I was your age"?


Welcome Mike!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] NFS oddities

2007-10-01 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Rumi Szabolcs wrote:

Hi!

I've got a problem with NFS:


This is offtopic for this list. Please take it to gentoo-user, the forums, or 
#gentoo on freenode.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] stripping out the DO NOT REPLY from bugzie emails

2007-09-29 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Benno Schulenberg wrote:

Robin H. Johnson wrote:

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL. Also, do not reply via email to the
person whose email is mentioned below. To comment on this bug,
please visit:


Please consider lowercasing the first sentence, to stop the yelling, 
and removing the repetition from the second sentence, which seems 
to treat the addressee as retarded.  Suggested replacement:


Well, this really *is* targeting the "retarded". There are many people who just 
don't pay any attention at all and will reply directly to the bugzie email. 
There's also the people who like to argue with the bug commenter but don't want 
to do it on the bug (which will make them look like an idiot to *everyone*), so 
they email the person directly. With this warning, I can completely ignore those 
"retards" without feeling bad :)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] stripping out the DO NOT REPLY from bugzie emails

2007-09-28 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Andrew Gaffney wrote:
It seems that not everybody loves the new "DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL" 
header at the top of every bugzie email as much as robbat2 does. Because 
of that, robbat2, KingTaco, and I came up with a procmail recipe that 
uses sed to filter that new message out of bugzie emails.


This has not actually been tested on incoming mails, so it may rape/eat 
your dog/sister. Enjoy.


# Strip out DO NOT REPLY lines from bugzie emails
:0 Hfw
* ^From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| sed -e '/^DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL/,+2d'


Okay, I just had it tested "in the wild". It works just fine. Double enjoy!

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[gentoo-dev] stripping out the DO NOT REPLY from bugzie emails

2007-09-28 Thread Andrew Gaffney
It seems that not everybody loves the new "DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL" header at 
the top of every bugzie email as much as robbat2 does. Because of that, robbat2, 
KingTaco, and I came up with a procmail recipe that uses sed to filter that new 
message out of bugzie emails.


This has not actually been tested on incoming mails, so it may rape/eat your 
dog/sister. Enjoy.


# Strip out DO NOT REPLY lines from bugzie emails
:0 Hfw
* ^From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
| sed -e '/^DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL/,+2d'

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Re: [gentoo-dev] SSL-Certificates and CAcert

2007-09-27 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Hanno Böck wrote:
I think compared to self-signed, having cacert-certificates would be a big 
improvement. Many other free software projects (and more and more other 
pages) use cacert, so it becomes more and more likely that people will 
already have the cacert-root-cert installed.


How does a CAcert certificate help? Their own certificate for 
https://www.cacert.org/ can't be verified by Firefox 2.0.0.7, which tells me 
that their CA isn't trusted by default.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why isn't /root/.bash_profile in the stage tarballs?

2007-09-24 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Mike Frysinger wrote:
we should really rename "build" to "stage1", "bootstrap" to "stage2", and then 
have catalyst add USE="stage3" during the stage3 step ... that would allow 
packages to automatically key off of the environment


I like this idea (hurray clarity!), but it would add an extra possibly 
undocumented step for a user to build a system from stage1 (since we don't 
support stage[12]->stage3 anymore). It would also cause whichever packages that 
use the 'stage3' flag to be needlessly rebuilt with the first 'emerge -uDN world'.


Personally, I don't see either of these relatively minor issues as show 
stoppers.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Why isn't /root/.bash_profile in the stage tarballs?

2007-09-22 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Steve Long wrote:

Great. What exactly? How does fulfilling the user requirement with vapier's
solution mess up catalyst?


This is the the first time I've heard of a user requesting this change. It seems 
to me that many people prefer to *not* have a .bash{rc,_profile} in /root, which 
is the way it's always been. Why not just add the ability to copy these files 
with 'emerge --config' to certain ebuilds, and then add a note to the handbook 
telling users to run the command if they want to?


Even better, just tell the users to run 'cp -a /etc/skel/* /root/' if they 
really want the stuff, and not modify any ebuilds at all?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why isn't /root/.bash_profile in the stage tarballs?

2007-09-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

John R. Graham wrote:

I didn't say anything about emerge; I was talking about the Stage
tarballs.   I know, I know:  Catalyst uses  emerge.

But, hasn't anyone realized that bash is _broken_ if this file doesn't
exist?  Quoting from the upstream-provided man page, "When an
interactive shell that is not a login shell is started, bash reads and
executes commands from ~/.bashrc, if that file exists."  Is that really
the intention here?  To break upstream-defined behavior?


First, please don't top-post. Second, you have an odd definition of "broken". 
You seem to have complete glossed over the last part of the sentence that you 
pasted: "if that file exists". Bash will *not* freak out and rape your dog if 
the file doesn't exist. All it means is that you get nothing more in your env 
than what's defined by /etc/profile.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Why isn't /root/.bash_profile in the stage tarballs?

2007-09-19 Thread Andrew Gaffney

John R. Graham wrote:

On the forums, I've seen the question, "Why isn't my .bashrc being
executed when I log in as root but is being executed when I log in as a
normal user?," asked half a dozen times on the forums. Heck, I even
asked it myself a few years ago. Now, two years later, from a slightly
more mature level of domain knowledge, I have to ask why the root cause
shouldn't be addressed. Why can't the simple little default
.bash_profile from /etc/skel be put into /root as well?


When catalyst builds a stage tarball, it doesn't add any additional files. All 
files in any stage tarball are created by one of the packages contained within. 
In order to do this, a package such as baselayout would have to install the file.


Looking at my local install, it's actually bash that creates 
/etc/skel/.bash{rc,_logout,_profile}. You can appeal to the maintainer(s) of the 
bash ebuild (should be the base-system herd) to add that functionality, but I 
really doubt you'll convince them.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Last Rites - August 27th - September 2nd 2007

2007-09-02 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ryan Hill wrote:

Lars Weiler wrote:

* Ryan Hill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [07/09/02 17:44 -0600]:

plan on doing version-specific masks in the future unless someone can
come up with a good argument for it.

Slots?


That's a good argument.


I'm not so sure. The last rites have historically always been for complete 
removals of a package from the tree. Is there any reason to change it? Just 
removing an older version of a package from the tree is something that happens 
all the time. Do we want to clutter up the GWN (as much as it needs content 
sometimes) with this unimportant information?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] On my way out....

2007-08-28 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Gustavo Zacarias wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


I resign as gentoo developer.
Infra: please remove my accounts.


You can't resign! I won't let you!

Isn't fmccor the only active dev left on the sparc team? I'm guessing this 
pretty much means the end of the sparc port for Gentoo.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] default desktop profile

2007-08-04 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:

Le samedi 04 août 2007 à 16:23 -0500, Andrew Gaffney a écrit :
The LiveCD is intended to replace the separate GRP and universal CDs when 
combined with the installer. The installer uses the packages installed on the CD 
to do the new install. I'm not sure how many times this has been brought up on 
this list. You people need to pay attention ;)



err, sorry I'm here since 9th june only.
I should have check the archives :)


I guess I'll let it slide this time, then :)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] default desktop profile

2007-08-04 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Gilles Dartiguelongue wrote:

Le samedi 04 août 2007 à 09:08 +0300, Samuli Suominen a écrit :

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:28:26 -0700
Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


We disabled it to try to get the size of the x86/amd64 LiveCDs down.

Thanks.  I knew there had to be some reason for it, but couldn't
remember what it was off the top of my head.  Luckily, this won't be
much of an issue with the next release, since we're switching to Xfce
rather than GNOME to bring the size down even further and to try to
produce a more useful (as in more tools) LiveCD.  Of course, the
LiveDVD will have everything on it, as it does now.

Glad to hear that. Then maybe we could add some stages to livecd?
Replace evolution with something usable like claws-mail to do so.


why would you need a mailer at all on a livecd ? Is the livecd intended
to provide a full desktop experience whichever desktop is chosen or is
it just provided as a way to have something to do while you are
installing and/or tools to fix your install ?

if it's not intended to be a full desktop experience (garnome does it
very well for gnome afaik) then you could install only gnome-light for a
start.


The LiveCD is intended to replace the separate GRP and universal CDs when 
combined with the installer. The installer uses the packages installed on the CD 
to do the new install. I'm not sure how many times this has been brought up on 
this list. You people need to pay attention ;)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] default desktop profile

2007-08-04 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Samuli Suominen wrote:

On Fri, 03 Aug 2007 14:28:26 -0700
Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


We disabled it to try to get the size of the x86/amd64 LiveCDs down.

Thanks.  I knew there had to be some reason for it, but couldn't
remember what it was off the top of my head.  Luckily, this won't be
much of an issue with the next release, since we're switching to Xfce
rather than GNOME to bring the size down even further and to try to
produce a more useful (as in more tools) LiveCD.  Of course, the
LiveDVD will have everything on it, as it does now.


Glad to hear that. Then maybe we could add some stages to livecd?
Replace evolution with something usable like claws-mail to do so.


The saved space (~105MB with my test build right after 2007.0) would only allow 
for one stage tarball (the i686 2007.0 stage3 was 103MB, for example), and then 
we'd be right back where we were with keeping the ISO under 700MB.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] default desktop profile

2007-08-04 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Luis Medinas wrote:

On Fri, 2007-08-03 at 14:28 -0700, Chris Gianelloni wrote:

Thanks.  I knew there had to be some reason for it, but couldn't
remember what it was off the top of my head.  Luckily, this won't be
much of an issue with the next release, since we're switching to Xfce
rather than GNOME to bring the size down even further and to try to
produce a more useful (as in more tools) LiveCD.  Of course, the LiveDVD
will have everything on it, as it does now.


Sad to know that our livecd will be xfce based. I think the current live
cd gnome based provides a much better environment than xfce and that is
good for the users who will preform and instalation. 
Of course you don't need to build all gnome for the livecd and i bet

there will be enough space for another tools (a graphical package
manager!?).


The main reason that releng has decided to replace gnome with xfce for the 
LiveCD is space. We (Kugelfang, wolf31o2, and I) had a hell of a time this last 
release getting the x86/amd64 LiveCDs under 700MB, mostly because many packages 
(including gnome) grew a bit since the last release. With no differences other 
than s:gnome-base/gnome:xfce-base/xfce4:, the resulting ISO dropped ~105MB. 
That's a *lot* of breathing room and a *lot* less headaches for the people 
building the media.


Unless you can magically pull some space out of your butt, don't complain :P

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Re: [gentoo-dev] default desktop profile

2007-08-03 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Chris Gianelloni wrote:

On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 18:53 -0700, Donnie Berkholz wrote:

Chris Gianelloni wrote:

On Thu, 2007-08-02 at 11:27 +0200, Martin Schwier wrote:

+ppds  (everyone has a printer, and this is needed to configure it
without further investigations. cups is already in)
+startup-notification

Well, we don't add local USE flags to the default profiles unless there
is a *very* good reason.  I really don't have a problem with any of
these being added, but I'd rather hear the opinions of my peers.

I am very strongly in support of ppds, as I consider it critical for us
to make printers easier to set up.


This one should be on, actually.  It was enabled for 2006.1 but somehow
got turned back off for 2007.0's release.


We disabled it to try to get the size of the x86/amd64 LiveCDs down.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] baselayout-2 stablisation plans

2007-07-21 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Roy Marples wrote:

4) What baselayout will be used in the next release? (Maybe that's more
of a releng question.)


baselayout team just makes baselayout releases. If you mean the LiveCD
then ask releng.


It'll be whatever version of baselayout is stable at the time we take the 
initial release snapshot. However, if baselayout-2 will go stable a week after 
we take the initial snapshot, it would probably be incorporated.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: net-im/pidgin protocols

2007-07-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Eric Polino wrote:

If this is truly a problem, then I think the negative USE flags might
be the better solution then.  This would allow users the ability to
disable potential insecure features.  But really, I  doubt security is
an issue here.


The negative (or no*) USE flags are generally considered a "bad thing". They're 
"icky".


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Re: [gentoo-dev] x86 toolchain changes heads up

2007-07-18 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Peter Gordon wrote:

On Tue, 2007-07-17 at 19:47 -0400, Mike Frysinger wrote:
historically, gcc on x86 has always defaulted to i386.  some people noticed 
recently that glibc-2.6 fails to build in this situation as they were only 
setting -mtune via CFLAGS, not -march.  i'll be tweaking gcc so that it will 
default -march based on your CHOST.  so all the i686-* people will now have a 
default -march=i686 implied in their gcc systems, i586-* people will 
have -march=i586, etc...  keep in mind this is merely the default.

-mike


Does this mean that any user-set "-march" flag is overridden for these
cases? Just curious.


You quoted the answer :) These flags are "merely the default". Any 
user-specified flags will override the default. For example, if you have 
CFLAGS="-march=i586" with a i686 CHOST, it'd be effectively like calling gcc 
with 'gcc -march=i686 -march=i586'. The later option would win.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: ML changes

2007-07-16 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Torsten Veller wrote:

* Mike Doty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

We're going to change the -dev mailing list from completely open to where only
devs can post, but any dev could moderate a non-dev post.


What will you do when users start sending mail from dev addresses?


There's nothing to prevent that now. That's part of the reason that devs are 
"encouraged" to sign their messages to the mailing lists.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes

2007-07-16 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Marius Mauch wrote:

I think you're misinterpreting those statements.
Consider if you have choose if you spend your time implementing a
feature that you personally want to have or one that a user wants (and
is of no use to yourself), which one would you choose, assuming that
both have the same cost?
It's all about priority, nothing more, nothing less.


Yep, this is all anyone is trying to say. We aren't paid, so we work on what we 
feel like working on, and do what we feel like doing (within reason).


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Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes

2007-07-16 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Vlastimil Babka wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Andrew Gaffney wrote:

Donnie Berkholz wrote:

Matthias Langer wrote:

no offense, but this is one of the worst proposals i've ever read on
this list; why? because, one of gentoo's major problems is that it is
becoming more and more a toy exclusively for its own developers. 

Gentoo's always been exclusively for the developers. Nobody's paying us
to do this. It just so happens that the things we want to do also
benefit other people, and so they use them.

That was my thought as well. We (the developers) owe nothing to the
community at large. We are volunteers, and if we want to treat Gentoo as
our own personal toy (which we currently aren't), then so be it.


Are you people serious? Let's ban nondevs from bugzilla then? Close
#gentoo, disband PR, etc? Not sure if we can keep any sponsors then...


You misunderstand. I'm not saying that all non-devs can get bent and their 
opinions be damned. I'm just saying that at the core, Gentoo is still the same 
as it was "back in the day". Gentoo isn't a commercial distribution, and nobody 
pays us, so we can do anything we want, whether the user community at large 
likes it or not. We ultimately answer only to ourselves.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes

2007-07-16 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Donnie Berkholz wrote:

Matthias Langer wrote:

no offense, but this is one of the worst proposals i've ever read on
this list; why? because, one of gentoo's major problems is that it is
becoming more and more a toy exclusively for its own developers. 


Gentoo's always been exclusively for the developers. Nobody's paying us
to do this. It just so happens that the things we want to do also
benefit other people, and so they use them.


That was my thought as well. We (the developers) owe nothing to the community at 
large. We are volunteers, and if we want to treat Gentoo as our own personal toy 
(which we currently aren't), then so be it.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes

2007-07-15 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Matthias Langer wrote:

by banning non-dev contributors from this list some of you may feel better
- but gentoo as a whole will probably suffer. silencing people doesn't
make their opinions invalid.


I keep seeing this argument over and over again. Many people are just completely 
misunderstanding.


This is not a blanket silencing of any non-dev on the list. This is simply 
delaying the posting of messages from non-devs (and even devs that have 
"improperly" moderated in the past). If nobody moderates a particular message to 
the list within a set amount of time, the message passes through.


Making the list "moderated" isn't the same as making a channel moderated on IRC. 
Anyone will still be able to speak, just with a slight delay, which allows us to 
maintain a good signal-to-noise ratio, and hopefully prevent re-occurrences of 
some of the nastier flamewars we've seen on the list lately.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] glibc-2.6 / gcc-4.2 going into ~arch

2007-07-06 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Luca Barbato wrote:

Mike Frysinger wrote:

get your "waaait dont do it" votes in now, i plan on pushing:
glibc-2.6 ~amd64 ~ppc ~ppc64 ~x86
gcc-4.2.0 ~amd64 ~x86
in the next day or so
-mike


gcc-4.2.0 won't rape your house and burn your pet anymore?


I see they got around to adding the -fno-rape-house-or-burn-pet flag.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Hiatus (sort of)

2007-06-24 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Paul de Vrieze wrote:

On Saturday 31 March 2007, you wrote:

Hi all,

Me and my wife and son are moving to Australia. We are now waiting for the
visa's to arrive, and after that will need some time to set ourselves up.
Our computers however are being shipped as we speak and will only arive in
australia after roughly 6 weeks. I'm looking to buy a laptop, but
connectivity will be problematic anyways. As such I will not be able to
contribute as much as I would like.


It took a while longer, but I finally have broadband again, and my computers 
back etc. I'll first be catching up on the email, but I'm back in action 
again. Now from Hobart, Tasmania (Australia)


Welcome back!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] how to handle sensitive files when generating binary packages

2007-06-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:19:46 -0500
Andrew Gaffney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I'm not sure that's really a feasible solution (but then you probably
weren't suggesting it with that intention). Being able to create a
"backup" of any installed package without re-emerging is pretty
handy. Many people use it and there would be a revolt if quickpkg
were removed.


Then live-filesystem-generated packages could be marked as 'not for
redistribution'.


That's certainly a lot more feasible. However, it would have to be marked in 
some way that portage would recognize, and that marking could still likely be 
easily removed.


This still allows the social engineering attack. Someone can get a binpkg 
created with quickpkg of someone else's baselayout and then remove the marking 
that would make portage gripe.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] how to handle sensitive files when generating binary packages

2007-06-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:07:07 -0400
Mike Frysinger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

no reason to write off something critical like this when it can be
addressed


It can be addressed by banning binary package creation off an
installed filesystem.


I'm not sure that's really a feasible solution (but then you probably weren't 
suggesting it with that intention). Being able to create a "backup" of any 
installed package without re-emerging is pretty handy. Many people use it and 
there would be a revolt if quickpkg were removed.


I use FEATURES="buildpkg" myself, so I've always got that backup.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] how to handle sensitive files when generating binary packages

2007-06-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Mike Frysinger wrote:
any other potential ideas ?  (pretend my idea here isnt the greatest thing 
since Robot Chicken)


Lies...nothing is better than Robot Chicken!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: QA issue: No stable skype in Tree

2007-06-18 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Chris Gianelloni wrote:

If the Gentoo developers as a whole decided to dedicate this list to
pink ponies, we can.


Are pretty purple ponies acceptable as well?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Fact Injection

2007-06-06 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Kumba wrote:
Anyways, we're off the crab guys.  Really.  We're pulling in blank pots, 
the crew is getting restless, and we're almost out of coffee and 
nicotine.  Let's get our heads on straight, our asses in gear, fill our 
tanks and get back to port so we can get paid and go home.


I wonder how many people are going to get that reference :)

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Re: Retiring (Was Re: [gentoo-dev] Living in a bubble [gentoo-proctor] Warning^2)

2007-06-05 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Chris Gianelloni wrote:

Jason,

If you leave, the plants win.


That has just made my day.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Automated Package Removal and Addition Tracker, for the week ending 2007-05-13 23h59 UTC

2007-05-14 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Enrico Weigelt wrote:

* Robin H. Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schrieb:

Hi,


www-misc/nscache2007-05-07 18:41:07 armin76
www-misc/nsopenssl  2007-05-07 18:41:07 armin76
www-misc/nssha1 2007-05-07 18:41:07 armin76
www-misc/nsxml  2007-05-07 18:41:07 armin76


what did these packages do ? 
Sounds like mozilla stuff. Am I correct ?


I'm pretty certain a few simple google searches would answer this question for 
you.

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[gentoo-dev] Announcing GLI ("the installer") 0.5

2007-05-07 Thread Andrew Gaffney

The Gentoo Linux Installer team would like to announce version 0.5[.4] (we've
found a few bugs since the initial 0.5 release) of the installer. This release,
which is available on the 2007.0 x86 and amd64 LiveCD/DVDs, has a lot of changes
from the previous one (so many that it really should have been a new major
version, but we haven't even reached 1.0 yet, so it's a bit hard to jump to
2.0).

The major change is that the installer is now interactive, so instead of
configuring everything and then letting the install go, it acts more like every
other installer that has ever existed. If you're looking for something to do
automated installs, check out the installer's sister project, Quickstart at
<http://dev.gentoo.org/~agaffney/quickstart.php>.

As always, there are many improvements (and bugfixes) since the last version.

 * Yet Another Partitioning Code Overhaul: partitioning is now done in real
   time, so all of the problems that affected previous installer versions are
   now gone. It is completely and absolutely safe. The worst it can do is mess
   up when deleting a partition you wanted to delete or creating a new
   partition, neither of which will result in data loss.
 * GTK+ frontend redesign: most of the screens have been redesigned from the
   ground up to go along with the new real-time functionality of the installer.
   The content of the screens is drawn dynamically as you reach the screen,
   instead of just disabling elements that don't apply anymore due to previous
   decisions. This makes the interface seem a lot less clunky. We also have some
   cool new graphics for the splash screen and banner image thanks to blackace.
 * GTK+ frontend allows you to choose from 3 modes: Networkless, Standard, and
   Advanced.
 * GRP mode is now only available in Networkless mode.
 * When existing prematurely from the installer, it will offer to clean up after
   itself (unmount partitions, move logfiles, etc.)
 * Dialog frontend has been given an overhaul and now has complete i18n support
   along with 5 translations.
 * CLI frontend fixup: the non-interactive CLI frontend has been fixed up. It
   can be used to do automated installs with GLI if you create an install
   profile by hand if you pre-partition or use the recommended partition layout.

As always with improvements, there are new bugs created to go along with them.
If you do encounter a bug, make sure to save your /tmp/installprofile.xml and
/var/log/installer.log.failed from the LiveCD right after the install fails.
File a bug at http://bugs.gentoo.org/. Select the "Gentoo Release Media" product
and the "Installer" component. If you can't find that, just use the following
link:

http://bugs.gentoo.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=Gentoo%20Release%20Media&component=Installer&format=guided

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Christina Fullam (musikc)

2007-04-22 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Chrissy Fullam wrote:
 


On Fri, 2007-04-20 at 11:52 +0200, Christian Heim wrote:

So please welcome Christina as a new fellow developer among us !


Thank you for the greetings! 
agaffney - good luck with that hazing thing and don't you have some liveCD

stuff to work on? :-P


Pfft, you should have that boy toy of yours check on poseidon. My stuff is 
*done* done.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] New Developer: Christina Fullam (musikc)

2007-04-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Christian Heim wrote:

So please welcome Christina as a new fellow developer among us !


Let the hazing (well, more of it) begin!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Proctors Episode II - Attack of the clones

2007-04-18 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Roy Bamford wrote:

You can see some of our outfits at
http://dev.gentoo.org/~mark_alec/photos/Postbusters.jpg


amne is pretty hot as a chick

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

2007-04-13 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Alex Tarkovsky wrote:

On 4/13/07, Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

On Fri, 2007-04-13 at 21:16 +0200, Jakub Moc wrote:
> I'm not implying there's anything wrong w/ restricting the bug; just
> that pointing users here to it won't get them very far. ;)

*I* didn't point anyone to that bug, as I knew it was locked and
wouldn't provide our users with much of anything in the way of
information regarding the release.


The channel topic in #gentoo-releng points to it. Steered this user wrong.


And #gentoo-releng is a channel for devs that are members of releng, not users. 
There's a reason why it's +m. The information isn't there for users.


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[gentoo-dev] Re: 2007.0 release

2007-04-13 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Thilo Bangert wrote:

Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:

I'm simply amazed at the level of complete and total bullshit that some
people spout off on this list without bothering to check facts or take
3 seconds to talk to the people in the know.  If you don't know what
you're talking about, rather than open your mouth and prove to everyone
that you are clueless about the particular topic, it's probably best to
either ask someone or talk about something you're actually familiar
with, instead.


this seems to come up more often than you like. is this the release 
tracker bug?

http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=156814


It's not exactly a release tracker...more for the release *snapshot*.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Tears of unfathomable sorrow

2007-04-06 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Alec Warner wrote:

Much to the joy of many I am now retiring from Gentoo.  I've already done
most of the work (sorry to burden you kloeri I think just the tree-bits
are left).


Not that I didn't see this coming, but I'm still sad to see you go. You'll be 
missed.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [soc] Python bindings for Paludis

2007-03-25 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Piotr Jaroszyński wrote:

On Sunday 25 of March 2007 16:58:10 Mike Frysinger wrote:

Did you not say that finding alternatives to Portage is one of Gentoo's
priorities?

no i did not, nor does that apply here

not to put anything in your mouth, but I am a little confused:
http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/46648


Support for an alternative package manager != language bindings for said package 
manager :P


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Firefox 1.5 series will get removed in 30 days

2007-03-18 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Petteri Räty wrote:

Raúl Porcel kirjoitti:

Hi,

The mozilla team has decided that the
www-client/mozilla-firefox[-bin]-1.5* series will get masked two weeks
from now (18 Mar 2007), that is *1 April 2007*. *And will be removed
after two weeks from that date*, which will be *15 April 2007*.



Shouldn't an application as important as Firefox should get the usual
month in package.mask?


It's not the whole package, just older versions. With most packages, you 
wouldn't get the notification beforehand that older versions were disappearing.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Something positive! (was Re: Client-serve flags (again ;))

2007-03-11 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Dan Meltzer wrote:

This thread is gay.


Well played.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Something positive! (was Re: Client-serve flags (again ;))

2007-03-10 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Andrej Kacian wrote:

On Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:28:29 -0600
Andrew Gaffney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Thing is that kinda stuff just puts ppl off; i've seen you carry on
bugzilla but i always thought fair enough he's stressed and working on
loads a bugs; if you really wanted to say that crap to me, you could have
emailed me.  

Wow, somebody took that completely the wrong way. It was nothing more than a
joke.


This is a fine example of how different people are in perceiving jokes.

BTW, I never understood why are certain people so touchy about homosexuality,
while others joke about it with their peers daily (and very personally).


The people who get all bent out of shape about a simple joke like that are 
either homosexual themselves (not a bad thing) or homophobes (definitely a bad 
thing).


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Something positive! (was Re: Client-serve flags (again ;))

2007-03-10 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Steve Long wrote:

Mike Frysinger wrote:

Yay zmedico! Can I just say he's one of the coolest devs on irc that i've
run into, and incredibly helpful to all.

if you love him so much why dont you marry him ... i hear Massachusetts is
OK -mike


Jeez i'd expect that off others, not off you. For shame.

Thing is that kinda stuff just puts ppl off; i've seen you carry on bugzilla
but i always thought fair enough he's stressed and working on loads a bugs;
if you really wanted to say that crap to me, you could have emailed me.


Wow, somebody took that completely the wrong way. It was nothing more than a 
joke.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Some council topics for March meeting

2007-03-02 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Daniel Robbins wrote:

I don't understand half of what you said.

You are saying that PMS is a sub-project of QA? Is the PMS spec hosted
on Gentoo infrastructure?

 From all I have read, PMS is meant to define the functionality of
Paludis itself, which is not a Gentoo project. Because of this, PMS
can't be considered a Gentoo project.


That may be what it's meant to do now, but that was not the original purpose. It 
was originally to be a written specification of EAPI=0, which is essentially 
portage's current functionality. It's only later that the whole PMS == Paludis 
thing came about.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] more up to date minimal install cd

2007-03-01 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Rémi Cardona wrote:

Robin H. Johnson wrote:

As opposed to minimal CDs, I would see weekly builds of stage3 tarballs
to be much more useful.



++ on that. Rebuilding _everything_ because openssl changed ABI since
the last stage3 install could save users a lot of time/trouble. (that
was just an example)

Weekly, bi-weekly or even monthly stages feel enough for me  :)

Those could be released as "experimental stages".


...which people will still bitch and moan about when broken. People seem to have 
an unreasonably expectation for everything we release, even if it's 
"experimental", to work perfectly.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] more up to date minimal install cd

2007-03-01 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Simon Stelling wrote:

That being said, I think this is really up to the releng team and noone
else. They are doing the work, so we can discuss it far and wide, as
long as releng doesn't want to do it, nothing will happen. So maybe we
should wait for a statement from Chris before doing anything else.


I can tell you right now what Chris's answer is going to be.

If you're volunteering to do it, join releng and have at it. As it is now, most 
members of releng do not have the time and/or desire to do a release more often 
than bi-annually.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: more up to date minimal install cd

2007-03-01 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Tiziano Mueller wrote:

Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:

I was wondering what is keeping us from releasing a minimal install cd more 
often than we do now.
Isn't almost everything needed for it already in the stable tree and thus 
tested? And if so isn't
it possible to fully automate generation of these cd's?


I'd rather like to see that the stages are being updated more often.


This would certainly make more sense than updating the minimal CD, but the same 
reasons for not doing apply as for the minimal.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] more up to date minimal install cd

2007-03-01 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Marijn Schouten (hkBst) wrote:

I was wondering what is keeping us from releasing a minimal install cd more 
often than we do now.
Isn't almost everything needed for it already in the stable tree and thus 
tested? And if so isn't
it possible to fully automate generation of these cd's?


Time and sanity. Sure, it can be built pretty quickly, but there's a bit of 
testing that needs to go into it before it can be released to the mirrors. 
Release time is hectic enough, and you want us (releng) to do it more often than 
bi-annually?


Also, what's the point? Everything you use to install from the minimal is 
fetched from the internet. The only thing that an updated minimal would give us 
is a slightly more hardware support during the install.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] no binaries amarok-1.4.5 !

2007-02-18 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Mohammed Hagag wrote:

amarok-1.4.5 doesn't install any thing except the .po files when
emerging without the kde USE flag, is this normal ?


File a bug. This list isn't the place to complain about b0rkage in random 
packages.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] imagemagick-6.3.0.5 without truetype doesn't compile

2007-02-18 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Mohammed Hagag wrote:

emerging imagemagick-6.3.0.5 without truetype USE flag "which depends
on propritary corefonts" fails with compilation error.


File a bug. This list isn't the place to complain about b0rkage in random 
packages.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] new herd suggestion: religion

2007-02-02 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Steve Dibb wrote:
I'd like to propose a new herd: religion.  The herd would take care of 


Would the non-believers in the group be able to ignore it like we do the real 
thing? :P


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: New developer: Vic Fryzel (shellsage)

2007-01-21 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ryan Hill wrote:

Christian Heim wrote:

Please welcome Vic as a new fellow developer among us !


Yay!  Welcome to Gentoo.


Whenever I see "shellsage", I always think "shell sausage" instead of "shell 
wizard" :)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Somewhat OT - Making a suggestion for games-emulation/tuxnes

2007-01-07 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Michael Sullivan wrote:

I hope this is the right place for this, or at least the right place to


No, not really.


write/edit ebuilds yet.  Do I even submit them to Gentoo's bugzilla, or
should I paddle upstream with them?  What should I do?


This isn't a bug so much as a behavior that you just don't like. Take it up with 
upstream.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] LAST RITES - rt2x00 beta 3

2006-12-22 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Roy Marples wrote:

Hi list.

Not often I issue a last rites, but here we go!
rt2x00-beta3 driver is going to be masked over the next few days and
then removed from portage around the end of January.

This is at the request of upstream as they're mainly bored of fixing
compile and useability errors in beta3 with new kernels and want to
concentrate on beta4.


Is it really necessary to notify people of a version bump? :P

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Versioning the tree

2006-12-01 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Steve Long wrote:

There'll always be GLSA's to respond to.  That's another issue that
needs to be handled w/ a slow-moving tree.  Are you going to restrict
changes in the slow-moving tree only to changes against a GLSA?

That's what we've said.


I don't have a problem with this at all. The slow-moving tree isn't; it's a
release tree. The only question I have, which Stuart also mentioned, is
whether all security updates go thru the GLSA process.


Are you asking if all security updates that are done to the release will have 
gone through the GLSA process? I'd say the answer is yes, since the only updates 
that will go in the release tree are security updates from GLSAs :P


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Versioning the tree

2006-11-29 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Stuart Herbert wrote:

Sorry, I've looked, but the only announcement I found on gentoo-dev
was posted two days before gcc-4.1 was stabilised [1].  I must have
missed the earlier announcement?


Do you just ignore the rest of the thread when responding to individual emails? 
About 2 hours ago, someone posted the following link in this thread in response 
to your earlier post about gcc-4.1.1 being a last minute change.


http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/39848

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Versioning the tree

2006-11-29 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Stuart Herbert wrote:

On 11/29/06, Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

As of this release, I kept a copy of all of the distfiles for the entire
release, and can make a DVD of it, on request.  This fulfills our
requirements with the GPL.


What are the arrangements should you go under a bus on the way home
from work tonight?


I believe they're kept on poseidon, which many people have access to. Please 
stop arguing just for the sake of arguing. Are you trying to become the next 
ciaranm (no offense to ciaranm :P)?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Versioning the tree

2006-11-29 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Stuart Herbert wrote:

On 11/29/06, Andrew Gaffney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
The 3-4 weeks of releng filing a ton of "doesn't build with gcc-4.1.1" 
bugs

wasn't a big enough clue? :)


No.  We get those all the time; there's always someone trying out an
unsupported release of gcc.


From other developers, most of which were releng members?


Also, the arch teams (or at least the arch's
release coordinator...if they didn't tell the rest of their team, 
that's not
releng's fault) that were moving to it and people in base-system 
working on it

were "in the know".


What about everyone else, who isn't part of an arch team?  Sorry, but
I just don't get how you expected us to know it was coming, when you
didn't announce it, and you don't even feel that an announcement was
your (releng's) responsibility (even though stabilisation of gcc-4.1
was for you).


It's stupid to "blame" releng for the stabilization of gcc-4.1.1. It would have 
been stabilized soon as part of the normal process of package maintenance 
whether releng wanted it or not. And really, it was up to each arch to say they 
wanted it for the release, not releng. We didn't force it on people.


And as always, if you wanted to know what was going on as part of the release, 
the info was there for everyone to see in the usual places (such as the 
gentoo-releng mailing list or the #gentoo-releng IRC channel). This argument 
about people not knowing what releng is doing seems to come up after every 
release. It's crap.


Yes, that's part of wolf31o2's idea. The tree would be "non-moving" 
except for

GLSA's and any dependencies required by the updated version of the
security-affected package.


How are you going to ensure that all the security fixes that never get
a GLSA get into the tree?


If it doesn't get a GLSA, it doesn't get in the release tree. This may mean that 
we need to modify the GLSA process a bit so that ~arch packages found to be 
vulnerable get GLSAs as well. Although, release tree users won't have these 
~arch versions anyway, so I don't see it being *that* big of an issue.


A slower-moving (or "non-moving" with security updates) tree is 
perfect for me,

and I'm sure for many other people as well.


Before you release these trees to users, I trust you'll be doing the
responsible thing, and ensuring that upgrades from one tree to the
next work?  You can't take that for granted; package maintainers
cannot be relied upon to test upgrades spanning that length of time.
(Which is why upgrade early, upgrade often is a practical way to
manage Gentoo boxes)


Absolutely, it would be stupid to release it to users without testing that the 
upgrade path is even feasible. However, we can't test the upgrade with *all* 
packages in the tree, but we can certainly do it with certain "profiles" (gnome 
desktop, kde desktop, LAMP server, etc.) to try to cover as many bases as 
possible. This testing can be easily scripted.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Versioning the tree

2006-11-29 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Steve Long wrote:

Chris Gianelloni wrote:
From your post we need to add:

- strip all USE flags that aren't used from use.mask (per-profile)
- strip all packages that aren't available from package.mask
(per-profile)


What language is the script implemented in?


The current script is actually 2 scripts: a python script that I wrote that 
interfaces with the portage API and a bash script that wolf31o2 wrote that takes 
the output from my script and does the cleanup.


Last night, with the help of ferringb, I started working on a replacement script 
that uses the pkgcore API. The portage-based script takes quite a while to run, 
and gets it wrong if there are any p.mask'd stable packages on any arch or other 
weird things. The pkgcore-based script actually uses the profiles properly and 
runs over the entire tree with all the "stable" profiles (according to 
profiles.desc) in 1m1.869s (on my box). I'll probably end up combining the 
scripts and doing the cleanup in python to make things easier.



Wrt security updates, is it possible to tie into GLSAs so that we could
automate updating packages that need it? By updating I mean adding the
ebuilds and any dependencies (or dependants that might require updating.)


I'm not sure this is the best idea.


Caleb Cushing wrote:

.. isn't it possible only to sync certain
parts of the tree using excludes. maybe some additional functionality
saying only sync package X for updates.


Would that help in terms of having say, up to date GUI packages, or is it
just easier to use overlays?


Overlays are definitely best here.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Versioning the tree

2006-11-29 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Stuart Herbert wrote:

> b) Release trees have a nasty habit of picking up last minute changes
> (such as gcc 4.1) to suit the release, not stability.

Gcc 4.1.1 wasn't a last minute change.


I can't agree with you there.  It doesn't matter how many months of
planning and work you guys put into getting gcc-4.1 fit for stable.
If you're doing it off in your own little corner of the world, and
then springing it on the rest of us just days before the release
happens, then to the much larger dev community, it comes as a last
minute change.


The 3-4 weeks of releng filing a ton of "doesn't build with gcc-4.1.1" bugs 
wasn't a big enough clue? :) Also, the arch teams (or at least the arch's 
release coordinator...if they didn't tell the rest of their team, that's not 
releng's fault) that were moving to it and people in base-system working on it 
were "in the know".



The "release tree" isn't really for minimal breakage.


But that is what Steve (who started this thread) asked for.  And what
he has asked for in his previous thread too.


Well, wolf31o2 has been floating around this idea for quite a while, and I'm 
speaking from the POV of his ideas. The "minimal b0rkage" tree is far less 
likely to happen due to the extra manpower involved.



The *real* intent (at
least from my POV) is to have a non-moving target for vendors to 
certify their
software against (wouldn't it be nice for Oracle to be actually 
supported on

Gentoo 2007.0 or something like that?),


Well, there's a dichotamy here.  Sun were able to certify Gentoo
against their hardware without such a tree.  Has anyone approached
Oracle and asked them what their actual requirements are?  Do Oracle
actually want to certify Oracle on Gentoo at all?


Certifying hardware and software are 2 completely different things. Also, I'm 
not sure that Sun certifying their hardware even meant anything. The T2000 dev 
box has been seeing random lockups and other weird problems, although, that may 
be related to the fact that it recently "lost" 16GB of memory due to an error 
detected by the diagnostics. As for the Oracle example, it was just that...an 
example.



and so admins don't have to do the
"upgrade dance" once a week or even every day (like I do).


A slower-moving tree will substantially reduce this amount of work,
but it isn't going to go away, unless your boxes are on a private
network w/ no local security threats at all.

There'll always be GLSA's to respond to.  That's another issue that
needs to be handled w/ a slow-moving tree.  Are you going to restrict
changes in the slow-moving tree only to changes against a GLSA?


Yes, that's part of wolf31o2's idea. The tree would be "non-moving" except for 
GLSA's and any dependencies required by the updated version of the 
security-affected package.



The "non-stagnant" nature of Gentoo isn't the only reason that people use
Gentoo. People use Gentoo for the configurability and customizability. As
someone who admins more than a handful of Gentoo servers, I would 
absolutely
*love* the combo of Gentoo's flexibility and a non-moving tree to make 
upgrades

easier to deal with.


I honestly don't think you're ever going to get that out of Gentoo,
because of the lack of backporting.  Can you live with a slower-moving
tree?  Or do you personally really need a non-moving tree?


A slower-moving (or "non-moving" with security updates) tree is perfect for me, 
and I'm sure for many other people as well.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Versioning the tree

2006-11-28 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Stuart Herbert wrote:

On 11/28/06, Chris Gianelloni <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

As I have said, I've mentioned several times the idea of doing a
"release tree" to go along with each release.


The release tree is not the basis for this.

a) Releases (and the releng work that goes into it) are exclusively
desktop-oriented.


You make it sound like releng doesn't care at all about non-desktop packages. 
The reason for the "exclusivity" is that the media that's typically built for 
release (GRP, LiveCD) is targetted for the largest audience...desktop users. If 
someone wants to volunteer to create a set of server-related GRP and a server 
LiveCD (as silly as this is for most things), they wouldn't be blocked outright.



b) Release trees have a nasty habit of picking up last minute changes
(such as gcc 4.1) to suit the release, not stability.


Gcc 4.1.1 wasn't a last minute change. The release snapshots are originally 
created a month or more before the actual release. As stuff is stabilized in the 
tree, it's stabilized in the release snapshot as well. During the release cycle, 
we planned for gcc-4.1.1 to be stable by release (at least for x86, amd64, and a 
few other arches). We had it stable in the release snapshot a few weeks before 
the tree did and were testing the crap out of it.



No version changes on any packages, except those which are necessary due
to a security violation, or a vulnerable package's dependencies.


Tying a minimal-b0rkage tree to the arbitrary schedule of our releases
does not serve all of our users.  We are back to the same arguments we
had when I said that the Seeds project would have to have its own
independent release schedules :(


The "release tree" isn't really for minimal breakage. The *real* intent (at 
least from my POV) is to have a non-moving target for vendors to certify their 
software against (wouldn't it be nice for Oracle to be actually supported on 
Gentoo 2007.0 or something like that?), and so admins don't have to do the 
"upgrade dance" once a week or even every day (like I do).



Thereś little merit in us creating mostly stagnant trees.  Other Linux
distros are already very good at doing that - far better than we will
be at it - because they have advantages such as a paid workforce and
more upstream developers on their books.


The "non-stagnant" nature of Gentoo isn't the only reason that people use 
Gentoo. People use Gentoo for the configurability and customizability. As 
someone who admins more than a handful of Gentoo servers, I would absolutely 
*love* the combo of Gentoo's flexibility and a non-moving tree to make upgrades 
easier to deal with.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Versioning the tree

2006-11-28 Thread Andrew Gaffney

James Potts wrote:

This looks good on the surface, Chris, but what happens in the case
where somebody wants to use the Release tree, but also wants (or
needs) one or more packages from the Live tree, and doesn't want to
switch completely over to the live tree?  If I understand what you
want to do correctly, the Release tree would include only stable
packages.  Other packages wouldn't just be masked, they would be
completely unavailable to anybody using that tree.


This is what overlays are for :)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] New developer: Alexander Gabert (pappy) returns from retirement

2006-11-25 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Lisa Seelye wrote:

Wow, welcome back pappy. Does it mean I've been around a long time when
I remember his retirement?


Well, I remember it, and when I became a dev, you had already been a dev for 
quiet a while :)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo list server dropping mail

2006-11-07 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Chris Gianelloni wrote:

Andrea has worked pretty hard on this.  He's made some changes that he
thinks has solved the problem.  If anyone is having issues currently
with emails being dropped to the mailing lists, could they please post
on bug #141904 so Andrea can look at them?  You'll definitely want the
msgid of the failed message for him.


In that bug, he says he changed some config option but doesn't go into details.
Andrea, can you give a brief synopsis of the issue, so that it could possibly 
help others avoid the same pitfall in the future?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: baselayout-1.13 going into ~ARCH soon

2006-11-07 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Roy Marples wrote:

Actually, before I do that, let me attack this from another angle.
What do you gain from keeping it mounted as a ramdisk?
If the answer is performance, well you loose performance at start time as 
you've lost the deptree.


So why would you want to keep it?


read-only nfsroot or any other root that needs to stay read-only

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Ignoring/overwriting IUSE from an eclass

2006-10-30 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

Your solution is approximately on par with fixing a wobbly chair by
sawing off all four legs and then attaching what's left to a crocodile.


+1 for creativity and making me literally laugh out loud

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users

2006-10-14 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Caleb Cushing wrote:

partition limits are decided by the size of the drive and the other
partitions on it.


really that seems impossible. GLI told me I couldn't have a boot
partion smaller than ~50MB it complained about it. and I think I
remember it complaining less because I was able to continue ... about
having 140GB /home partition it only wanted to make a 20GB
partition. but it absolutely would not do 32MB boot partion I have. it
was like giving me a negative number, I assumed these are features not
bugs.


That's not an installer imposed limit. It's a limitation of the slider bar used 
for choosing the size. I haven't figured out how to decouple it from the entry 
fields while still making it useful if you want to use it. Patches are welcome.


As for the 20GB partition, I have no idea. Perhaps that's a limit imposed by 
libparted, but it's not a limit that *I* put into the code.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: per-package default USE flags

2006-10-13 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Ciaran McCreesh wrote:

On Fri, 13 Oct 2006 02:40:59 -0700 Zac Medico <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
| At the profile level, I've added support for package.use
| which behaves like /etc/portage/package.use that everyone is familiar
| with.  The intention is that the IUSE defaults will be used for
| default flags that should be enabled regardless of profile.

Isn't that why we have base profiles? It's kinda icky moving that
metadata partially into ebuilds IMO...


Are you saying you like a bunch of php-only USE flags (I'm not picking on 
php...it was just the first that came to mind) being in the default USE in the 
profile?


Do you also like the nofoo flags? AFAIK, previous discussions said that the 
per-ebuild default USE would go in the USE stacking order above make.conf and 
below package.use, so that USE="-*" wouldn't remove the default USE flags for 
the particular ebuild but the user could still disable it via package.use if 
they *really* wanted to.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: GLEP 42?

2006-10-12 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Natanael Copa wrote:

btw.. I keep hearing about this paladius. Is it more script-friendly
than emerge?


It's "paludis", and no, the API is currently C++ only, afaik. There are ruby 
bindings in the works, though. The other alternative, pkgcore, has a python 
API...as does portage itself. None of the options have an interface that's 
usable via a bash script.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users

2006-10-10 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Simon Stelling wrote:

Roy Bamford wrote:
Dropping support for x86 suppose, its a question of when.


There is clearly only a few users, besides myself using systems that 
old, since there were very few forums posts about the original 2006.1 
x86 media not workign on P1 and AMD k6 based systems.


I'm sure I'm not the only one who is using a pentium mmx as a router, so 
you better think twice about it :P


But when was the last time you reinstalled it? :)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Missing: Universal-CD - Gentoo discriminates shell and networkless users

2006-10-10 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Wernfried Haas wrote:

On Tue, Oct 10, 2006 at 10:13:41AM +, Duncan wrote:

Personally, I'd say 686 is the lowest reasonable to support at this point.
Below that, try an appropriate binary distribution and save the days/weeks
of compiling.  


Bollocks. I run a print/samba/backup box at work which is a pentium II
400. Compiling glibc takes 3 hours here and while it may not be the


Uhh, P2 is i686, which falls squarely into the realm of "supported" and 
"reasonable" :)


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles, Round 2

2006-10-09 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Zac Medico wrote:

(of course, please
don't use multiple inheritance in the live tree in ways that will
hurt users of the current single inheritance profiles).


If someone does, can we blame you? :)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles, Round 2

2006-10-08 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Danny van Dyk wrote:

I for one favour a more flattened profiles/ and a way to mark a profile
as 'not standalone', similar to a deprecated file, that isn't inherited, 
to stop users biting their own asses. The following sample is not 
complete, but should give the right impressions.


By 'not standalone', I assume you mean "this profile does not work by itself, 
and is only meant to be inherited by other profiles". If that's not what you 
meant, we also need something that does that :)



 profiles
 +-obsolete, which contains the "old cascaded profiles". Let's remove
 |   the current obsolete/ contents.


Doing this will break portage for people who are using "old cascaded profiles". 
Portage would freak out if there wasn't a profile where there was one before, 
and there wouldn't be a way to do a 'deprecated' file to tell them about the new 
ones.



 +-default-linux, minimal default useflags here
 | |
 | +-linux-2.4, would be handy for x86 :-) amd64 has no supported 2.4
 |  kernel.
 |
 +-hardened, minimal default useflags here
 |
 +-default-bsd, minimal default useflags here
 | |
 | +fbsd, inherits default-bsd/
 |
 +-base
 | |
 | +amd64, inherits base/
 |
 +-releases
   |
   +-2006.1, does not inherit anything, stuff like "nptl nptlonly" here
 |
 +-amd64-linux, inherits default-linux/, base/amd64; "standalone"
 |
 +-amd64-hardened, inherits hardened, base/amd64; "standalone"
 |
 +-amd64-fbsd, inherits default-bsd/fbsd/, base/amd64; "standalone"

This is a hot shot and I'm waiting for comments.
Wolf? Agaffney?


I can't really comment on the structure, since I don't really do much with 
profiles myself (no gentoo-x86 commit access).



I'm prepared to do the work here and, as this new layout would take
some time, it should be done in a seperate repository for the time 
being.


Not necessary. It can just be a separate directory tree under profiles/ much 
like default-linux/ was created for cascaded profiles originally, and they can 
all be marked as deprecated or something.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] RFC: multiple inheritance support for profiles, Round 2

2006-10-07 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Zac Medico wrote:

Some of you may recall that I proposed the addition of multiple
inheritance to profiles a couple of months ago [1].  The idea is to
extend the "parent" file in profiles so that it supports any number
of parents (one per line).  Parents listed closer to the bottom of
the file will have the ability to override the settings of those
listed nearer the top of file.

As of portage-2.1 (included in the 2006.1 release media), portage
will automatically generate an error if it encounters multiple
inheritance (earlier versions would simply ignore anything after the
first parent).  As long as users follow the profile updating
instructions [2] and update portage prior to a profile update, they
won't have any trouble.  However, if a user has <=portage-2.0* and
fails to follow the upgrade instructions, portage may attempt to
build and install packages without the entire profile being
correctly parsed.

Should we add multiple inheritance support now?  The changes
necessary to add this support are minimal and we can have this
feature in portage-2.1.2 [3], which I estimate will be ready for a
final release in approximately 3 to 5 weeks.


Are you proposing just adding the support or creating the new profiles as well? 
If it's just the support, adding it into portage now certainly won't hurt 
anything (unless someone really fscks up the current single-parent cascaded 
profiles in the tree) and is probably a good idea.


If you're talking about putting together the new profiles now as well, is it 
going to be a separate profile tree (much as default-linux/ was created for 
cascaded profiles)? Will it be directly under profiles/? default-linux/?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] Resignation

2006-10-07 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Tim Yamin wrote:

I would like to wish all of you the very best, and would like to thank
all of you who have (and haven't) made my time here so enjoyable.

So long, and thanks for all the fish...


I can't say this was unexpected, but I'm sorry to see you go. Are you going to 
continue to contribute to various projects you've worked on such as gk4?


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Re: [gentoo-dev] treecleaner removals

2006-09-28 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Alec Warner wrote:

stuff gets fixed (aka pornview)


Why doesn't this surprise me? :)

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Delay in approval of new developers

2006-09-22 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Peter wrote:

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 10:13:23 -0400, Chris Gianelloni wrote:


I just want to prefix this by saying that I was simply going to ignore
your posts in this thread completely due to your obviously inflammatory
nature at the beginning.  Now that you're posting actual constructive
criticisms, I'd like to respond.  By the way, thank you for changing
your tone to something more productive.



Bunk! Unnecessary to write. Why not just plonk me and be done with it.
Nothing I wrote was inflammatory at all. My criticism of the recruitment
process stand. Your response was welcome. The prefix was condescending and
offensive.

You, as leaders, have to really think through what your intentions are and
how you are going to deal with people and factions with various
objectives. Telling people they are obviously inflammatory is really not a
strong way to begin.


I believe you just proved his point.

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Stuart Herbert wrote:

On 9/20/06, Andrew Gaffney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, now it's gotten to the point where people are being sneaky and 
underhanded
about this whole thing. Stuart (I believe) said that they had talked 
to members
of releng about this, but the truth seems to be that Stuart talked 
with rocket
and Xen support in stages and some random user associated with this 
project

talked to plasmaroo about using catalyst for stage4 builds.


Could you be a little more polite about our users _please_?  There was
a day when I was just "some random user", just as there was for you
and everyone else who is, or has been, a Gentoo dev.


By "some random user", I meant that plasmaroo had absolutely no idea that he was 
associated with this Gentoo project that you announced this morning. It was not 
an insult against our users.



Here's one thing I don't get.  We have a project (Gentoo Seeds), which
is attracting interest and volunteers both from inside the Gentoo dev
ranks and (especially) outside.  Granted, it's not a lot of people,
but interest is always welcome.  Assuming we go on, and are successful
in establishing a sustainable project, that translates into extra
folks working on releases (and fresh eyes to boot).  It might only be
one or two people, but that's still one or two people more than what
we had midnight last Sunday.

Given all the complaints from releng in general (and Chris in
particular) about there not being _enough_ folks working on releases,
isn't this a _great_ opportunity for releng to recruit some
additional, motivated folks to help solve that problem?  Can't you see
that?


The help Releng needs is with *testing*. We've got building covered just fine.


How much of a dent in this opportunity do you think this afternoon's
outpouring has made?  How many folks, reading what you've said (and
what you've ignored), will still feel motivated to consider maybe
moving on to releng in the future?

Could you have a think about that, and re-consider the unnecessary
hostility and unjustified accusations that you're filling this thread
with?


Unjustified accusations? Can you point out one "unjustified accusation" I've 
made?

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Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Christian 'Opfer' Faulhammer wrote:

Tach Andrew,  0x2B859DE3 (PGP-PK-ID)

Andrew Gaffney schrieb:

As somebody's already mentioned, the embedded project releases GNAP and
has a releng liaison. There's no reason the seeds project couldn't also
have a releng liaison, which seems to resolve the main dispute here.

That's not the issue. The issue is that there should *already* be a
releng liason, but nobody from releng seems to know anything about this
project.


 So now releng does know and maybe people agree that both projects should  
work together.  Maybe everyone should cool down a little, and start  
working.


Well, now it's gotten to the point where people are being sneaky and underhanded 
about this whole thing. Stuart (I believe) said that they had talked to members 
of releng about this, but the truth seems to be that Stuart talked with rocket 
and Xen support in stages and some random user associated with this project 
talked to plasmaroo about using catalyst for stage4 builds.


Nobody who talked to anyone in releng mentioned anything about this "seeds" 
project. In this case, "we've talked to releng about this" really means "we've 
asked various people related to releng random questions that sort of have to do 
with our project but didn't tell them why we were asking".


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Re: [gentoo-dev] New project: Gentoo Seeds

2006-09-20 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Donnie Berkholz wrote:

Andrew Gaffney wrote:

Mike Frysinger wrote:

On Wednesday 20 September 2006 12:38, Alec Warner wrote:

I think Chris's primary concern is one of "Tell us whats up before it
happens."

why should he care ?  some Gentoo guys take catalyst and produce
stage4s directed at certain applications

He cares because they're basically extending the roll of releng without
it being under releng's control. I know I'd be annoyed if they release a
x86 stage4 and then *I* gets bugs, but I know absolutely nothing about
it. Having 2 projects doing almost the same thing is just going to
confuse users.


As somebody's already mentioned, the embedded project releases GNAP and
has a releng liaison. There's no reason the seeds project couldn't also
have a releng liaison, which seems to resolve the main dispute here.


That's not the issue. The issue is that there should *already* be a releng 
liason, but nobody from releng seems to know anything about this project.


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Re: [gentoo-dev] [Unmaskings]

2006-09-19 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Alec Warner wrote:

Pornview was unmasked; thanks to Ben Hodgetts for the fixes.


w00t, I can get back to my porn viewing!

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Re: [gentoo-dev] So long (but if anyone sends me fish...)

2006-09-16 Thread Andrew Gaffney

Nathaniel McCallum wrote:

Well, kloeri marked me as retired today
( http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=34058 ).  I won't fight it this
time... :)  Its been a while since I contributed something, and I don't
see myself doing anything anytime soon.  I'm available at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] if anyone needs anything.  I wish you all the
best!


Thanks for all your hard work on the beginnings of the installer. If you ever 
feel like coming back and being my bitc...err...re-joining the installer team, 
just let me know :)


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