Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Christopher Harris]

Postal 3 seems fine and it is going to be using source engine

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 9, 2009, at 6:45 PM, Rodrigo 'r2d2rigo' Diaz  
 wrote:

> "To sleep"? Yeah, because there are no differences between vanilla  
> Source,
> and the Ep1 and OB revisions. And who knows what are the changes for  
> Ep3 or
> future versions.
>
> Joshua, sometimes (always?) you give the impression that you are  
> talking
> about something without knowing a crap on the subject. Just my 2  
> cents.
>
>
>
> 2009/10/10 Joshua Scarsbrook 
>
>> Worth noting that most of the larger projects where developed by
>> engineers(in garrysmod) aside from source has kinda gone dormant  
>> unlike
>> other engines, valve still gets a lot of sales but the engine has  
>> gone
>> to sleep
>>
>> On 10/10/2009 10:21 a.m., BananaSandbags wrote:
>>> To better iterate on that though, I'm speaking of tiny sales  
>>> compared to
>>> some Large titles, though gmod still does well all on it's own.
>>>
>> http://www.garry.tv/wp-content/plugins/quickimg/image/f5db5c01d838401f39fda14271602a26.jpg
>>> <
>> http://www.garry.tv/wp-content/plugins/quickimg/image/f5db5c01d838401f39fda14271602a26.jpg
>>> And
>>> the demographic isn't that much of a problem, we all know how 13  
>>> year
>> olds
>>> can be :/. Either way, the gameplay style attracts younger people  
>>> more
>>> often, only because they seem to have a getter imagination than  
>>> older
>> people
>>> do.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Cory de La Torre>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
 Gmod already has tiny sales. If not for the demographic it's  
 targeting
 13-15 year olds.


 On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Harry Jeffery<
 harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:


> Cloverfield had great viral marketing. Very good film too.
>
> 2009/10/8 Joshua Scarsbrook:
>
>> Releasing a Game in secret is also known as viral marketing,  
>> but with
>> steam the second it gets out the whole would will know and it  
>> will
>> make
>> the g mod sale look tiny
>>
>> On 9/10/2009 11:52 a.m., Adam Buckland wrote:
>>
>>> Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
 I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only  
 developing HL3
 in secret
 - but also releasing it in secret.
 garry

 On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook<

> jscarsbr...@gmail.com
>

> wrote:
>
>

> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that  
> are
> going
> to be added to source.
> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world  
> of hl3
> at E3.
>
> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>
>
>> On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> This list is for programming in Source, not complaining  
>>> about
>>>
>>>
> Source.
>
>
>> Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
>>
>>
>>
>>
> ___
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> archives,
> please visit:
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>
>
>
>
 ___
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>>>
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>

 --
 Gear Dev


>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Rodrigo 'r2d2rigo' Diaz]

"To sleep"? Yeah, because there are no differences between vanilla Source,
and the Ep1 and OB revisions. And who knows what are the changes for Ep3 or
future versions.

Joshua, sometimes (always?) you give the impression that you are talking
about something without knowing a crap on the subject. Just my 2 cents.



2009/10/10 Joshua Scarsbrook 

> Worth noting that most of the larger projects where developed by
> engineers(in garrysmod) aside from source has kinda gone dormant unlike
> other engines, valve still gets a lot of sales but the engine has gone
> to sleep
>
> On 10/10/2009 10:21 a.m., BananaSandbags wrote:
> > To better iterate on that though, I'm speaking of tiny sales compared to
> > some Large titles, though gmod still does well all on it's own.
> >
> http://www.garry.tv/wp-content/plugins/quickimg/image/f5db5c01d838401f39fda14271602a26.jpg
> > <
> http://www.garry.tv/wp-content/plugins/quickimg/image/f5db5c01d838401f39fda14271602a26.jpg
> >And
> > the demographic isn't that much of a problem, we all know how 13 year
> olds
> > can be :/. Either way, the gameplay style attracts younger people more
> > often, only because they seem to have a getter imagination than older
> people
> > do.
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Cory de La Torre >wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Gmod already has tiny sales. If not for the demographic it's targeting
> >> 13-15 year olds.
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Harry Jeffery<
> >> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com>  wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> Cloverfield had great viral marketing. Very good film too.
> >>>
> >>> 2009/10/8 Joshua Scarsbrook:
> >>>
>  Releasing a Game in secret is also known as viral marketing, but with
>  steam the second it gets out the whole would will know and it will
> make
>  the g mod sale look tiny
> 
>  On 9/10/2009 11:52 a.m., Adam Buckland wrote:
> 
> > Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
> >
> >
> > On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
> >> in secret
> >> - but also releasing it in secret.
> >> garry
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook<
> >>
> >>> jscarsbr...@gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
> >>> going
> >>> to be added to source.
> >>> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
> >>> at E3.
> >>>
> >>> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
>  On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
> >
> >
> >>> Source.
> >>>
> >>>
>  Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >>> archives,
> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >> archives, please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> >
> >>> please visit:
> >>>
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
>  ___
>  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> 
> >>> please visit:
> >>>
>  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> 
> 
> 
> >>> ___
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> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Gear Dev
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Joshua Scarsbrook]

Worth noting that most of the larger projects where developed by 
engineers(in garrysmod) aside from source has kinda gone dormant unlike 
other engines, valve still gets a lot of sales but the engine has gone 
to sleep

On 10/10/2009 10:21 a.m., BananaSandbags wrote:
> To better iterate on that though, I'm speaking of tiny sales compared to
> some Large titles, though gmod still does well all on it's own.
> http://www.garry.tv/wp-content/plugins/quickimg/image/f5db5c01d838401f39fda14271602a26.jpg
> And
> the demographic isn't that much of a problem, we all know how 13 year olds
> can be :/. Either way, the gameplay style attracts younger people more
> often, only because they seem to have a getter imagination than older people
> do.
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Cory de La Torrewrote:
>
>
>> Gmod already has tiny sales. If not for the demographic it's targeting
>> 13-15 year olds.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Harry Jeffery<
>> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com>  wrote:
>>
>>  
>>> Cloverfield had great viral marketing. Very good film too.
>>>
>>> 2009/10/8 Joshua Scarsbrook:
>>>
 Releasing a Game in secret is also known as viral marketing, but with
 steam the second it gets out the whole would will know and it will make
 the g mod sale look tiny

 On 9/10/2009 11:52 a.m., Adam Buckland wrote:
  
> Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
>
>
> On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
>
>
>
>> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
>> in secret
>> - but also releasing it in secret.
>> garry
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook<
>>  
>>> jscarsbr...@gmail.com
>>>
>>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>  
>>> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
>>> going
>>> to be added to source.
>>> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
>>> at E3.
>>>
>>> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>>>
>>>
 On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:


  
> This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
>
>
>>> Source.
>>>
>>>
 Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)



  
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>> archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> ___
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>> archives, please visit:
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>>
>>  
> ___
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>
>>> please visit:
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>
>
>
>

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
  
>>> please visit:
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 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


  
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>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Gear Dev
>>
>>  
>
>
>


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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[BananaSandbags]

To better iterate on that though, I'm speaking of tiny sales compared to
some Large titles, though gmod still does well all on it's own.
http://www.garry.tv/wp-content/plugins/quickimg/image/f5db5c01d838401f39fda14271602a26.jpg
And
the demographic isn't that much of a problem, we all know how 13 year olds
can be :/. Either way, the gameplay style attracts younger people more
often, only because they seem to have a getter imagination than older people
do.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Cory de La Torre wrote:

> Gmod already has tiny sales. If not for the demographic it's targeting
> 13-15 year olds.
>
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Harry Jeffery <
> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Cloverfield had great viral marketing. Very good film too.
>>
>> 2009/10/8 Joshua Scarsbrook :
>> > Releasing a Game in secret is also known as viral marketing, but with
>> > steam the second it gets out the whole would will know and it will make
>> > the g mod sale look tiny
>> >
>> > On 9/10/2009 11:52 a.m., Adam Buckland wrote:
>> >> Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
>> >>> in secret
>> >>> - but also releasing it in secret.
>> >>> garry
>> >>>
>> >>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook<
>> jscarsbr...@gmail.com
>> >>>
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> >>>
>>  Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
>>  going
>>  to be added to source.
>>  Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
>>  at E3.
>> 
>>  On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>> 
>> > On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
>> >>
>>  Source.
>> 
>> > Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> 
>>  ___
>>  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>  archives,
>>  please visit:
>>  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >>> ___
>> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>> >>> archives, please visit:
>> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > ___
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>> please visit:
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>> >
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>>
>
>
> --
> Gear Dev
>



-- 
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Cory de La Torre]

Gmod already has tiny sales. If not for the demographic it's targeting 13-15
year olds.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:25 PM, Harry Jeffery <
harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Cloverfield had great viral marketing. Very good film too.
>
> 2009/10/8 Joshua Scarsbrook :
> > Releasing a Game in secret is also known as viral marketing, but with
> > steam the second it gets out the whole would will know and it will make
> > the g mod sale look tiny
> >
> > On 9/10/2009 11:52 a.m., Adam Buckland wrote:
> >> Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
> >>
> >>
> >> On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
> >>> in secret
> >>> - but also releasing it in secret.
> >>> garry
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook<
> jscarsbr...@gmail.com
> >>>
>  wrote:
> 
> >>>
>  Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
>  going
>  to be added to source.
>  Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
>  at E3.
> 
>  On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
> 
> > On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
> >
> >
> >> This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
> >>
>  Source.
> 
> > Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
> >
> >
> >
> 
>  ___
>  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>  archives,
>  please visit:
>  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> 
> 
> 
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >>> archives, please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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> please visit:
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> >
> >
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

Cloverfield had great viral marketing. Very good film too.

2009/10/8 Joshua Scarsbrook :
> Releasing a Game in secret is also known as viral marketing, but with
> steam the second it gets out the whole would will know and it will make
> the g mod sale look tiny
>
> On 9/10/2009 11:52 a.m., Adam Buckland wrote:
>> Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
>>
>>
>> On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
>>> in secret
>>> - but also releasing it in secret.
>>> garry
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook>>
 wrote:

>>>
 Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
 going
 to be added to source.
 Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
 at E3.

 On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:

> On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
>
>
>> This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
>>
 Source.

> Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
>
>
>

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives,
 please visit:
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>>> archives, please visit:
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>>>
>>
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>> please visit:
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>>
>>
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Doeke Wartena]

I would even cut of my thumb for it.
Or just cut my nails.
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Joshua Scarsbrook]

Releasing a Game in secret is also known as viral marketing, but with 
steam the second it gets out the whole would will know and it will make 
the g mod sale look tiny

On 9/10/2009 11:52 a.m., Adam Buckland wrote:
> Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
>
>
> On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
>
>
>> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
>> in secret
>> - but also releasing it in secret.
>> garry
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>  
>>> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
>>> going
>>> to be added to source.
>>> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
>>> at E3.
>>>
>>> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>>>
 On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:

  
> This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
>
>>> Source.
>>>
 Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)


  
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>> archives,
>>> please visit:
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>>>
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>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Stephen Swires]

Start a boycott group, see it for free.

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:59 PM, Harry Jeffery <
harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> What I would give for a sneak peek at Ep3.
>
> Hell, I'd even sign an NDA.
>
> 2009/10/8 Adam Buckland :
> > Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
> >
> >
> > On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
> >
> >> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
> >> in secret
> >> - but also releasing it in secret.
> >> garry
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook <
> jscarsbr...@gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
> >>> going
> >>> to be added to source.
> >>> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
> >>> at E3.
> >>>
> >>> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>  On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
> 
> > This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
> >>> Source.
> 
>  Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >>> archives,
> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
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> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >> archives, please visit:
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> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Matt Hoffman]

I'm sure most of us would Harry. :P

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Harry Jeffery <
harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> What I would give for a sneak peek at Ep3.
>
> Hell, I'd even sign an NDA.
>
> 2009/10/8 Adam Buckland :
> > Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
> >
> >
> > On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
> >
> >> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
> >> in secret
> >> - but also releasing it in secret.
> >> garry
> >>
> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook <
> jscarsbr...@gmail.com
> >> >wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
> >>> going
> >>> to be added to source.
> >>> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
> >>> at E3.
> >>>
> >>> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>  On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
> 
> > This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
> >>> Source.
> 
>  Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >>> archives,
> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
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> >>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

What I would give for a sneak peek at Ep3.

Hell, I'd even sign an NDA.

2009/10/8 Adam Buckland :
> Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...
>
>
> On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:
>
>> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3
>> in secret
>> - but also releasing it in secret.
>> garry
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook > >wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are
>>> going
>>> to be added to source.
>>> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3
>>> at E3.
>>>
>>> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
 On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:

> This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
>>> Source.

 Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)


>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> archives,
>>> please visit:
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>>>
>>>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Adam Buckland]

Only the chosen few who believe will be able to play it...


On 8 Oct 2009, at 22:48, Garry Newman wrote:

> I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3  
> in secret
> - but also releasing it in secret.
> garry
>
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook  >wrote:
>
>>
>> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are  
>> going
>> to be added to source.
>> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3  
>> at E3.
>>
>> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>>> On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
>>>
 This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
>> Source.
>>>
>>> Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list  
>> archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Garry Newman]

I heard they're aiming to raise the bar by not only developing HL3 in secret
- but also releasing it in secret.
garry

On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Joshua Scarsbrook wrote:

>
> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are going
> to be added to source.
> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3 at E3.
>
> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
> > On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
> >
> >   >  This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about
> Source.
> >
> > Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
> >
> >
>
>
> ___
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

They told us that L4D2 was coming.

Next year had better have a better announcement then "we're working on
it" and a leaked vid of deaf people. =[

2009/10/8 Joshua Scarsbrook :
>
> Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are going
> to be added to source.
> Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3 at E3.
>
> On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
>> On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
>>
>>   >  This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about Source.
>>
>> Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
>>
>>
>
>
> ___
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> visit:
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>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Joshua Scarsbrook]

Well what we want to know is what are the next features that are going 
to be added to source.
Also an company as big as valve is going to tell the world of hl3 at E3.

On 9/10/2009 5:31 a.m., botman wrote:
> On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:
>
>   >  This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about Source.
>
> Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)
>
>


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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[botman]

On 10/8/2009 11:12 AM, Jorge Rodriguez wrote:

 > This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about Source.

Aren't they the same thing?  ZING!  :)

-- 
Jeffrey "botman" Broome

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jorge Rodriguez]

Guys guys guys. If they are working on Half-Life 3, do you think they're
going to announce it on this list?

Guys guys guys. Do you really think that Valve is sitting idly by letting
their engine get old? Use your head. They developed Half-Life 2 for years in
secret, and chances are they're doing the same thing with the next
groundbreaking technology right now.

This list is for programming in Source, not complaining about Source.

-- 
Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

And I just pre-ordered L4D2 too :(

The source engine does it's job well, valve don't have the time or
manpower to make it as commercially feasible as UE3 is. Anyway, valve
are making plenty of cash with their own games on their own engine.

I'm moving onto XNA after I've finished working on the mods I
currently code for =]

XBL Marketplace should get me a bit of cash on the side as source
modding certainly wont without betraying valve or buying a license.

2009/10/8 Richard Slaughter :
> Don't be silly, they're off in the bahamas relaxing in hammocks and
> sipping mojitos...
>
> Rich
>
> Jonathan Murphy wrote:
>> Hahaha..
>>
>> I'm pretty sure most of Valve is busy finishing up what they can on L4D2.
>>
>> On Friday, October 9, 2009, botman  wrote:
>>
>>> I called 911.  The wambulance is on the way.
>>>
>>> On 10/7/2009 9:15 PM, Nick wrote:
>>>
>>>> still no reply, im not surprised though
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Harry Jeffery
>>>>   wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I guess it makes much more sense if I treat it as sarcasm.
>>>>> Meh.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/8/6 Tony Paloma:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I think you missed the sarcasm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-
>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry 
>>>>>> Jeffery
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
>>>>>> game of the year... again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/8/6 botman:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
>>>>>>> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
>>>>>>> need our help.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>>>>>>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> garry
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick    wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> subject.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul 
>>>>>>>>> Rennison
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Seconded!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>> - Saul.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>> including
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to 
>>>>>>>>>>>> work
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of 
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: --
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>> Jeffrey "botman" Broome
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
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>>>
>>>
>>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Richard Slaughter]

Don't be silly, they're off in the bahamas relaxing in hammocks and 
sipping mojitos...

Rich

Jonathan Murphy wrote:
> Hahaha..
>
> I'm pretty sure most of Valve is busy finishing up what they can on L4D2.
>
> On Friday, October 9, 2009, botman  wrote:
>   
>> I called 911.  The wambulance is on the way.
>>
>> On 10/7/2009 9:15 PM, Nick wrote:
>> 
>>> still no reply, im not surprised though
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Harry Jeffery
>>>   wrote:
>>>   
>>>> Yeah, I guess it makes much more sense if I treat it as sarcasm.
>>>> Meh.
>>>>
>>>> 2009/8/6 Tony Paloma:
>>>> 
>>>>> I think you missed the sarcasm.
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry 
>>>>> Jeffery
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>
>>>>> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
>>>>> game of the year... again.
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/8/6 botman:
>>>>>   
>>>>>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
>>>>>> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
>>>>>> need our help.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>>>>>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> garry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nickwrote:
>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> subject.
>>>>>   
>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul 
>>>>>>>> Rennison
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>> Seconded!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> - Saul.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>> including
>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of 
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>>>>>>>>   
>>>>>>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>>>> From: --
>>>>>>>>>>>   
>> Jeffrey "botman" Broome
>>
>> ___
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>> please visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jonathan Murphy]

Hahaha..

I'm pretty sure most of Valve is busy finishing up what they can on L4D2.

On Friday, October 9, 2009, botman  wrote:
> I called 911.  The wambulance is on the way.
>
> On 10/7/2009 9:15 PM, Nick wrote:
>> still no reply, im not surprised though
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Harry Jeffery
>>   wrote:
>>> Yeah, I guess it makes much more sense if I treat it as sarcasm.
>>> Meh.
>>>
>>> 2009/8/6 Tony Paloma:
>>>> I think you missed the sarcasm.
>>>>
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry Jeffery
>>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>
>>>> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
>>>> game of the year... again.
>>>>
>>>> 2009/8/6 botman:
>>>>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
>>>>> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
>>>>> need our help.
>>>>>
>>>>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>>>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>>>>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> garry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick    wrote:
>>>>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
>>>> subject.
>>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison
>>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>>> Seconded!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>> - Saul.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
>>>> including
>>>>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>>> From: --
> Jeffrey "botman" Broome
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[botman]

I called 911.  The wambulance is on the way.

On 10/7/2009 9:15 PM, Nick wrote:
> still no reply, im not surprised though
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Harry Jeffery
>   wrote:
>> Yeah, I guess it makes much more sense if I treat it as sarcasm.
>> Meh.
>>
>> 2009/8/6 Tony Paloma:
>>> I think you missed the sarcasm.
>>>
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry Jeffery
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>
>>> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
>>> game of the year... again.
>>>
>>> 2009/8/6 botman:
>>>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
>>>> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
>>>> need our help.
>>>>
>>>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>>>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>>>>
>>>>> garry
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nickwrote:
>>>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
>>> subject.
>>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison
>>>   wrote:
>>>>>>> Seconded!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>> - Saul.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
>>> including
>>>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>>>>>>>> Pidcock
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a
>>> wrapper
>>>>>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>>>>>>>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"
>>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"<
>>>>>>>>

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Nick]

still no reply, im not surprised though

On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Harry Jeffery
 wrote:
> Yeah, I guess it makes much more sense if I treat it as sarcasm.
> Meh.
>
> 2009/8/6 Tony Paloma :
>> I think you missed the sarcasm.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry Jeffery
>> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>
>> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
>> game of the year... again.
>>
>> 2009/8/6 botman :
>>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
>>> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
>>> need our help.
>>>
>>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>>>
>>>> garry
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick  wrote:
>>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
>> subject.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison
>>  wrote:
>>>>>> Seconded!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> - Saul.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
>> including
>>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>>>>>>> Pidcock
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a
>> wrapper
>>>>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>>>>>>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"<
>>>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the
>> whitespace.
>>>>>>> =[
>>>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald:
>>>>>>&

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

Yeah, I guess it makes much more sense if I treat it as sarcasm.
Meh.

2009/8/6 Tony Paloma :
> I think you missed the sarcasm.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry Jeffery
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
> game of the year... again.
>
> 2009/8/6 botman :
>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
>> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
>> need our help.
>>
>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>>
>>> garry
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick  wrote:
>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
> subject.
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison
>  wrote:
>>>>> Seconded!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> - Saul.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>>
>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
> including
>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>>>>>> Pidcock
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a
> wrapper
>>>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>>>>>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"<
>>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the
> whitespace.
>>>>>> =[
>>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald:
>>>>>>>>> I like this one better.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.val

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[botman]

I have no idea what you are talking about, so here's a picture of a 
bunny with a pancake on his head...

(G.  I would attach a picture of a bunny in Hammer with a pancake on 
his head but every time I try to attach the pancake model to the bunny 
model the editor crashes.)

God dammit VALVe, fix your code!!!1!  :)

On 8/6/2009 12:24 PM, Tony Paloma wrote:
> I think you missed the sarcasm.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry Jeffery
> Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
> They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
> game of the year... again.
>
> 2009/8/6 botman:
>> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
>> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
>> need our help.
>>
>> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>>
>>> garry
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nickwrote:
>>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
> subject.
>>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison
>   wrote:
>>>>> Seconded!
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> - Saul.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>>
>>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
> including
>>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>>> fully
>>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>>> trouble
>>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>>>>>> Pidcock
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a
> wrapper
>>>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>>>>> visual
>>>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>>>>>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"
>>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"<
>>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the
> whitespace.
>>>>>> =[
>>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald:
>>>>>>>>> I like this one better.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Tony Paloma]

I think you missed the sarcasm.

-Original Message-
From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry Jeffery
Sent: Thursday, August 06, 2009 2:53 AM
To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
game of the year... again.

2009/8/6 botman :
> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
> need our help.
>
> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>
>> garry
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick  wrote:
>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this
subject.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison
 wrote:
>>>> Seconded!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> - Saul.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>
>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
including
>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>> fully
>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>> trouble
>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>>>>> Pidcock
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a
wrapper
>>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>>>> visual
>>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>>>>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------
>>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"<
>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the
whitespace.
>>>>> =[
>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald:
>>>>>>>> I like this one better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on
my
>>>>>>>> screen!...
>>>>>>>>
>&

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

They use their tools to make their games to make lots of money and
game of the year... again.

2009/8/6 botman :
> How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our
> helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and
> need our help.
>
> On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
>> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
>> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>>
>> garry
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick  wrote:
>>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this subject.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison  
>>> wrote:
>>>> Seconded!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> - Saul.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>>
>>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of including
>>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>>> fully
>>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>>> trouble
>>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>>> Faceposer
>>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>>> lemons,
>>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Chris
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>>>>> Pidcock
>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
>>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>>>> visual
>>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>>>>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"<
>>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace.
>>>>> =[
>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald:
>>>>>>>> I like this one better.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
>>>>>>>> screen!...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
>>>>>>>>> implemented
>>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>&

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[botman]

How else is VAVLe going to be successful unless they listen to our 
helpful comments?  It's obvious they don't know what they are doing and 
need our help.

On 8/5/2009 5:47 PM, Garry Newman wrote:
> They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
> scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.
>
> garry
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick  wrote:
>> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this subject.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison  
>> wrote:
>>> Seconded!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> - Saul.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman
>>>
>>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>>
>>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of including
>>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>>> fully
>>>>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>>>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>>> trouble
>>>>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>>> Faceposer
>>>>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>>> lemons,
>>>>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>>>>
>>>>> Chris
>>>>>
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>>>> Pidcock
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>
>>>>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
>>>>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>>> visual
>>>>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>>>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> From: "Harry Jeffery"
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"<
>>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace.
>>>> =[
>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald:
>>>>>>> I like this one better.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>>>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>>>>>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>>>>>>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
>>>>>>> screen!...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
>>>>>>>> implemented
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> new feature.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> From: "Andrew Ritchie"
>>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
>>

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Garry Newman]

They're probably too busy doing actual work to respond to a list of
scatterbrain pipe dream demands from a bunch of lazy modders.

garry

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Nick wrote:
> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this subject.
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison 
> wrote:
>> Seconded!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Saul.
>>
>>
>> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman 
>>
>>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>>
>>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of including
>>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> > My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>>> fully
>>> > with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>>> > lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>>> trouble
>>> > on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>>> Faceposer
>>> > requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>> >
>>> > I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>>> lemons,
>>> > not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>> >
>>> > Chris
>>> >
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> > From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> > [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>>> > Pidcock
>>> > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>>> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>> >
>>> > Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
>>> > that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>>> visual
>>> > language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>>> > translated into complex hlsl).
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > From: "Harry Jeffery" 
>>> > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>>> > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <
>>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> > >
>>> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>> >
>>> > > I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace.
>>> =[
>>> > >
>>> > > 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
>>> > >> I like this one better.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -Original Message-
>>> > >> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>>> > >> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>>> > >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>>> > >> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
>>> > >> screen!...
>>> > >>
>>> > >> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
>>> > >>
>>> > >>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
>>> > >>> implemented
>>> > >>> a
>>> > >>> new feature.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> --
>>> > >>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
>>> > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
>>> > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"
>>> > >>> >> > >>> >
>>> > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
>>> > >>> Personally
>>> > >>> > I
>>>

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Matt Hoffman]

Usally the only one to reply to these are Toni Sergi and I don't even know
if he works at valve. Somewhere I heard he just works for valve... Not sure
where I heard it (or if it's true).

On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Nick  wrote:

> I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this subject.
>
> On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison
> wrote:
> > Seconded!
> >
> > Thanks,
> > - Saul.
> >
> >
> > 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman 
> >
> >> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
> >>
> >> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of
> including
> >> all my hard-earned research in this one?
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
> >> fully
> >> > with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
> >> > lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
> >> trouble
> >> > on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
> >> Faceposer
> >> > requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
> >> >
> >> > I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
> >> lemons,
> >> > not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
> >> >
> >> > Chris
> >> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> >> > [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
> >> > Pidcock
> >> > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
> >> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> >> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >> >
> >> > Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a
> wrapper
> >> > that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
> >> visual
> >> > language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
> >> > translated into complex hlsl).
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > From: "Harry Jeffery" 
> >> > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
> >> > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <
> >> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
> >> > >
> >> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >> >
> >> > > I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the
> whitespace.
> >> =[
> >> > >
> >> > > 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
> >> > >> I like this one better.
> >> > >>
> >> > >> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >>
> >> > >> -Original Message-
> >> > >> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> >> > >> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
> >> > >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
> >> > >> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> >> > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >> > >>
> >> > >> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on
> my
> >> > >> screen!...
> >> > >>
> >> > >> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
> >> > >>
> >> > >>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
> >> > >>> implemented
> >> > >>> a
> >> > >>> new feature.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
> >> > >>>
> >> > >>> --
> >> > >>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
> >> > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
> >> > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"
> >> > >>>  >> > >>> >
> >> > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >> > >>>
> >> >

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Nick]

I like how valve has absolutely no response to make regarding this subject.

On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 12:21 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:
> Seconded!
>
> Thanks,
> - Saul.
>
>
> 2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman 
>
>> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>>
>> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of including
>> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
>> wrote:
>>
>> > My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
>> fully
>> > with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>> > lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
>> trouble
>> > on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
>> Faceposer
>> > requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>> >
>> > I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
>> lemons,
>> > not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>> >
>> > Chris
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> > [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>> > Pidcock
>> > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>> >
>> > Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
>> > that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
>> visual
>> > language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>> > translated into complex hlsl).
>> >
>> > --
>> > From: "Harry Jeffery" 
>> > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>> > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <
>> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
>> > >
>> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>> >
>> > > I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace.
>> =[
>> > >
>> > > 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
>> > >> I like this one better.
>> > >>
>> > >> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> -Original Message-
>> > >> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> > >> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>> > >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>> > >> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>> > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>> > >>
>> > >> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
>> > >> screen!...
>> > >>
>> > >> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
>> > >>
>> > >>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
>> > >>> implemented
>> > >>> a
>> > >>> new feature.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>> > >>>
>> > >>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --
>> > >>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
>> > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
>> > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"
>> > >>> > > >>> >
>> > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>> > >>>
>> > >>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
>> > >>> Personally
>> > >>> > I
>> > >>> > see 4 different ones here.
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > 1) Engine features
>> > >>> > 2) Tools Capabilities
>> > >>> > 3) Tools Availability
>> > >>> > 4) Tools Presentation
>> > >>> >
>> > >>> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new
>> > >>> > features
>> > >>> or
>> > >>> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
&

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[cathal mc nally]

Thats definetly not the way i wrote it so i apologise for Yahoos mail 
Chrachterisation Screw up on the part of the Return key:(


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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jonas 'Sortie' Termansen]

Sorry, but you need to use a bit more punctuation in your mails, you don't 
use periods to stop your sentences making them really hard to read.

Sorry for spamming your mailbox on another spam topic on this list. Sorry!

- Original Message - 
From: "cathal mc nally" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, July 29, 2009 12:58 AM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine


Hehe this all seems like an over grown Kettle of Fish
Well heres my take on itYup the tools are old looking and all but the engine 
works fine I only played Halflife for the first time there last Easter i 
have only been a member of steam Since christmasBasically Hl2 and both 
episodes blew me awayIm a gamer at heart and i have played lots of games in 
my time but no other Engine has grabbed me by the "balls" like this one did
I think that Alternative to Hammer you speak of is hereIts really only good 
for making structures and PrefabsIts called MicroBrushSeems hard to use but 
then again everything is on a first 
tryhttp://www.intercomm.com/shrinker/projects/Microbrush/
Well anyway i wanted to finish on a simple hard fact
VALVe dont Hire Zed outZED hires them outZing!!


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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[cathal mc nally]

Hehe this all seems like an over grown Kettle of Fish
Well heres my take on itYup the tools are old looking and all but the engine 
works fine I only played Halflife for the first time there last Easter i have 
only been a member of steam Since christmasBasically Hl2 and both episodes blew 
me awayIm a gamer at heart and i have played lots of games in my time but no 
other Engine has grabbed me by the "balls" like this one did
I think that Alternative to Hammer you speak of is hereIts really only good for 
making structures and PrefabsIts called MicroBrushSeems hard to use but then 
again everything is on a first 
tryhttp://www.intercomm.com/shrinker/projects/Microbrush/
Well anyway i wanted to finish on a simple hard fact
VALVe dont Hire Zed outZED hires them outZing!!


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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

Seconded!

Thanks,
- Saul.


2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman 

> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>
> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of including
> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
> wrote:
>
> > My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work
> fully
> > with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
> > lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had
> trouble
> > on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that
> Faceposer
> > requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
> >
> > I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely
> lemons,
> > not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
> >
> > Chris
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
> > Pidcock
> > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
> > To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >
> > Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
> > that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very
> visual
> > language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
> > translated into complex hlsl).
> >
> > --------------
> > From: "Harry Jeffery" 
> > Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
> > To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" <
> hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
> > >
> > Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >
> > > I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace.
> =[
> > >
> > > 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
> > >> I like this one better.
> > >>
> > >> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -Original Message-
> > >> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> > >> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
> > >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
> > >> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> > >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> > >>
> > >> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
> > >> screen!...
> > >>
> > >> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
> > >>
> > >>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
> > >>> implemented
> > >>> a
> > >>> new feature.
> > >>>
> > >>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
> > >>>
> > >>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
> > >>>
> > >>> --
> > >>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
> > >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
> > >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"
> > >>>  > >>> >
> > >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> > >>>
> > >>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
> > >>> Personally
> > >>> > I
> > >>> > see 4 different ones here.
> > >>> >
> > >>> > 1) Engine features
> > >>> > 2) Tools Capabilities
> > >>> > 3) Tools Availability
> > >>> > 4) Tools Presentation
> > >>> >
> > >>> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new
> > >>> > features
> > >>> or
> > >>> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
> > >>> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games
> > need
> > >>> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
> > >>> > modding
> > >>> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve
> a
> > >> lot
> > >>> > of
> > >>> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around
> > the
> > >>> > constraints of the engine

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

yes, that would be better.

2009/7/26 Matt Hoffman :
> I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.
>
> Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of including
> all my hard-earned research in this one?
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
> wrote:
>
>> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work fully
>> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
>> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had trouble
>> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that Faceposer
>> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>>
>> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely lemons,
>> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
>> Pidcock
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>
>> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
>> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very visual
>> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
>> translated into complex hlsl).
>>
>> ------------------
>> From: "Harry Jeffery" 
>> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > >
>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>
>> > I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace. =[
>> >
>> > 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
>> >> I like this one better.
>> >>
>> >> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -Original Message-
>> >> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> >> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>> >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>> >> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>> >>
>> >> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
>> >> screen!...
>> >>
>> >> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
>> >>
>> >>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
>> >>> implemented
>> >>> a
>> >>> new feature.
>> >>>
>> >>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>> >>>
>> >>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
>> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
>> >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"
>> >>> > >>> >
>> >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>> >>>
>> >>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
>> >>> Personally
>> >>> > I
>> >>> > see 4 different ones here.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > 1) Engine features
>> >>> > 2) Tools Capabilities
>> >>> > 3) Tools Availability
>> >>> > 4) Tools Presentation
>> >>> >
>> >>> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new
>> >>> > features
>> >>> or
>> >>> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
>> >>> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games
>> need
>> >>> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
>> >>> > modding
>> >>> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a
>> >> lot
>> >>> > of
>> >>> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around
>> the
>> >>> > constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR
>> these
>> >>> > mods
>> >>> > to be made.  If a technical limitation is big eno

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Matt Hoffman]

I for one would also like a fix for the ATI Hammer text... jaggies.

Or should I make a separate hlcoders email about that instead of including
all my hard-earned research in this one?


On Sat, Jul 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Christopher Harris
wrote:

> My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work fully
> with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
> lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had trouble
> on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that Faceposer
> requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.
>
> I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely lemons,
> not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D
>
> Chris
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry
> Pidcock
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
> Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
> that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very visual
> language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
> translated into complex hlsl).
>
> --
> From: "Harry Jeffery" 
> Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"  >
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
> > I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace. =[
> >
> > 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
> >> I like this one better.
> >>
> >> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -Original Message-
> >> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> >> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
> >> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> >> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >>
> >> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
> >> screen!...
> >>
> >> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
> >>
> >>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
> >>> implemented
> >>> a
> >>> new feature.
> >>>
> >>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
> >>>
> >>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
> >>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"
> >>>  >>> >
> >>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >>>
> >>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
> >>> Personally
> >>> > I
> >>> > see 4 different ones here.
> >>> >
> >>> > 1) Engine features
> >>> > 2) Tools Capabilities
> >>> > 3) Tools Availability
> >>> > 4) Tools Presentation
> >>> >
> >>> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new
> >>> > features
> >>> or
> >>> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
> >>> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games
> need
> >>> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
> >>> > modding
> >>> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a
> >> lot
> >>> > of
> >>> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around
> the
> >>> > constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR
> these
> >>> > mods
> >>> > to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an
> >> engine
> >>> > change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
> >>> > feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to
> >>> > really
> >>> > prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic
> >>> > change
> >>> > for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get
> >>&

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Christopher Harris]

My only wish for updates to the tools is to update Faceposer to work fully
with Vista. Currently it is not possible to do auto-generation of the
lip-synch data in Vista, and furthermore another dev and I both had trouble
on his XP machine locating a working link to the Speech SDK that Faceposer
requires, all the MS links were 404, etc.

I will just say that doing the lip synch data yourself is extremely lemons,
not to mention that I am a coder not an artiste :D

Chris

-Original Message-
From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Harry Pidcock
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 9:32 PM
To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper
that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very visual
language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then
translated into complex hlsl).

--
From: "Harry Jeffery" 
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" 
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace. =[
>
> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
>> I like this one better.
>>
>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>
>> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
>> screen!...
>>
>> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
>>
>>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully
>>> implemented
>>> a
>>> new feature.
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>>>
>>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"
>>> >> >
>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>
>>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
>>> Personally
>>> > I
>>> > see 4 different ones here.
>>> >
>>> > 1) Engine features
>>> > 2) Tools Capabilities
>>> > 3) Tools Availability
>>> > 4) Tools Presentation
>>> >
>>> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new
>>> > features
>>> or
>>> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
>>> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games need
>>> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
>>> > modding
>>> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a
>> lot
>>> > of
>>> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around the
>>> > constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR these
>>> > mods
>>> > to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an
>> engine
>>> > change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
>>> > feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to
>>> > really
>>> > prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic
>>> > change
>>> > for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get
>>> > underway
>>> > or
>>> > be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things without
>>> > a
>>> > lot
>>> > of work, if not at all.
>>> >
>>> > The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, I
>> don't
>>> > mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically
>>> > allowing
>>> > the
>>> > chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just use
>>> > a
>>> > common format.  The tool would need to have the importer and converter
>>> > written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a specific
>&g

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Pidcock]

Whitespace should be easy to embed in the engine if you create a wrapper 
that works with the feature I presented before. Whitespace is a very visual 
language that is great for particle effects and shaders(it is then 
translated into complex hlsl).

--
From: "Harry Jeffery" 
Sent: Sunday, July 26, 2009 4:40 AM
To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" 
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

> I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace. =[
>
> 2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
>> I like this one better.
>>
>> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>>
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
>> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
>> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>
>> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
>> screen!...
>>
>> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
>>
>>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully 
>>> implemented
>>> a
>>> new feature.
>>>
>>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>>>
>>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>>>
>>> --
>>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
>>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" 
>>> >> >
>>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>>
>>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
>>> Personally
>>> > I
>>> > see 4 different ones here.
>>> >
>>> > 1) Engine features
>>> > 2) Tools Capabilities
>>> > 3) Tools Availability
>>> > 4) Tools Presentation
>>> >
>>> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new 
>>> > features
>>> or
>>> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
>>> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games need
>>> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
>>> > modding
>>> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a
>> lot
>>> > of
>>> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around the
>>> > constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR these
>>> > mods
>>> > to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an
>> engine
>>> > change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
>>> > feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to 
>>> > really
>>> > prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic
>>> > change
>>> > for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get 
>>> > underway
>>> > or
>>> > be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things without 
>>> > a
>>> > lot
>>> > of work, if not at all.
>>> >
>>> > The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, I
>> don't
>>> > mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically 
>>> > allowing
>>> > the
>>> > chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just use 
>>> > a
>>> > common format.  The tool would need to have the importer and converter
>>> > written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a specific
>> and
>>> > industry accepted intermediate format might be a good cause. 
>>> > Especially
>>> if
>>> > it makes life easier for getting the raw assets into a format that the
>>> > tool
>>> > can then use.
>>> >
>>> > With the availability of tools, I mean those asking that they be open
>>> > source.  Specifically referring to a comment about hammer, look at
>>> > Worldcraft and BSP ( Yahn's editor iirc ) they were originally 
>>> > personal
>>> > projects.  So you could take a leaf and have a bash at your own editor
>>> and
>>> > open source it, you never know might tu

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

I thought it looked so clean and easy, then I selected the whitespace. =[

2009/7/25 Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald :
> I like this one better.
>
> http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
> [mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
> To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
> Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
> screen!...
>
> 2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 
>
>> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully implemented
>> a
>> new feature.
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>>
>> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>>
>> --
>> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
>> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" > >
>> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>>
>> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
>> Personally
>> > I
>> > see 4 different ones here.
>> >
>> > 1) Engine features
>> > 2) Tools Capabilities
>> > 3) Tools Availability
>> > 4) Tools Presentation
>> >
>> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new features
>> or
>> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
>> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games need
>> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
>> > modding
>> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a
> lot
>> > of
>> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around the
>> > constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR these
>> > mods
>> > to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an
> engine
>> > change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
>> > feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to really
>> > prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic
>> > change
>> > for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get underway
>> > or
>> > be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things without a
>> > lot
>> > of work, if not at all.
>> >
>> > The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, I
> don't
>> > mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically allowing
>> > the
>> > chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just use a
>> > common format.  The tool would need to have the importer and converter
>> > written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a specific
> and
>> > industry accepted intermediate format might be a good cause. Especially
>> if
>> > it makes life easier for getting the raw assets into a format that the
>> > tool
>> > can then use.
>> >
>> > With the availability of tools, I mean those asking that they be open
>> > source.  Specifically referring to a comment about hammer, look at
>> > Worldcraft and BSP ( Yahn's editor iirc ) they were originally personal
>> > projects.  So you could take a leaf and have a bash at your own editor
>> and
>> > open source it, you never know might turn out to be a better designed
>> > tool.
>> > However just having the source code to hammer, I doubt would be of any
>> > benefit, you'd have dozens of versions of the tool floating around and
> do
>> > you really think you could add something useful to it?  It may have bugs
>> > but
>> > if you advocate open source then why not take the initiative and lead by
>> > example?
>> >
>> > The last one, has been brought up in regards to wrapping a tool with a
> UI
>> > or
>> > removing the need for QC files.  With this I think the issue is
> balancing
>> > the technical knowledge and the capabilities of a tool.  However I feel
>> it
>> > again falls back to a situation where Valve are happy to use it the way
>> it
>> > is, they understand it and can get any of their tools to do what they
>> > need.
>> > It's the new, non technical, or perhaps sligh

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald]

I like this one better.

http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/whitespace/



-Original Message-
From: hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlcoders-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Olly
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:54 AM
To: Discussion of Half-Life Programming
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
screen!...

2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 

> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully implemented
> a
> new feature.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>
> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>
> --
> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"  >
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
> Personally
> > I
> > see 4 different ones here.
> >
> > 1) Engine features
> > 2) Tools Capabilities
> > 3) Tools Availability
> > 4) Tools Presentation
> >
> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new features
> or
> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games need
> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
> > modding
> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a
lot
> > of
> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around the
> > constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR these
> > mods
> > to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an
engine
> > change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
> > feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to really
> > prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic
> > change
> > for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get underway
> > or
> > be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things without a
> > lot
> > of work, if not at all.
> >
> > The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, I
don't
> > mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically allowing
> > the
> > chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just use a
> > common format.  The tool would need to have the importer and converter
> > written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a specific
and
> > industry accepted intermediate format might be a good cause. Especially
> if
> > it makes life easier for getting the raw assets into a format that the
> > tool
> > can then use.
> >
> > With the availability of tools, I mean those asking that they be open
> > source.  Specifically referring to a comment about hammer, look at
> > Worldcraft and BSP ( Yahn's editor iirc ) they were originally personal
> > projects.  So you could take a leaf and have a bash at your own editor
> and
> > open source it, you never know might turn out to be a better designed
> > tool.
> > However just having the source code to hammer, I doubt would be of any
> > benefit, you'd have dozens of versions of the tool floating around and
do
> > you really think you could add something useful to it?  It may have bugs
> > but
> > if you advocate open source then why not take the initiative and lead by
> > example?
> >
> > The last one, has been brought up in regards to wrapping a tool with a
UI
> > or
> > removing the need for QC files.  With this I think the issue is
balancing
> > the technical knowledge and the capabilities of a tool.  However I feel
> it
> > again falls back to a situation where Valve are happy to use it the way
> it
> > is, they understand it and can get any of their tools to do what they
> > need.
> > It's the new, non technical, or perhaps slightly lazy people who would
> > need
> > that more complex aspects automated for them.  I'd refer this back to
> > Hammer, the early days of mapping could often mean rooting around in a
> hex
> > or text editor and as things progressed and art started needing the
> > technical requirements to be simplified you found map editors hiding
away
> > the old formats.  Worldcraft and Hammer essentially sit between the user
> > and
> > the BSP, VIS, RAD etc.. compilers.  The format they accept might be, at
> > this

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Olly]

Its a good job you used tinyurl, otherwise it wouldn't have fit on my
screen!...

2009/7/25 Harry Pidcock 

> Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully implemented
> a
> new feature.
>
> http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt
>
> I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.
>
> --
> From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"  >
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
> > Surely this topic could be split into several different points.
> Personally
> > I
> > see 4 different ones here.
> >
> > 1) Engine features
> > 2) Tools Capabilities
> > 3) Tools Availability
> > 4) Tools Presentation
> >
> > The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new features
> or
> > change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
> > important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games need
> > doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are
> > modding
> > their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a lot
> > of
> > money and brought huge success but they were also developed around the
> > constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR these
> > mods
> > to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an engine
> > change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
> > feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to really
> > prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic
> > change
> > for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get underway
> > or
> > be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things without a
> > lot
> > of work, if not at all.
> >
> > The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, I don't
> > mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically allowing
> > the
> > chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just use a
> > common format.  The tool would need to have the importer and converter
> > written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a specific and
> > industry accepted intermediate format might be a good cause. Especially
> if
> > it makes life easier for getting the raw assets into a format that the
> > tool
> > can then use.
> >
> > With the availability of tools, I mean those asking that they be open
> > source.  Specifically referring to a comment about hammer, look at
> > Worldcraft and BSP ( Yahn's editor iirc ) they were originally personal
> > projects.  So you could take a leaf and have a bash at your own editor
> and
> > open source it, you never know might turn out to be a better designed
> > tool.
> > However just having the source code to hammer, I doubt would be of any
> > benefit, you'd have dozens of versions of the tool floating around and do
> > you really think you could add something useful to it?  It may have bugs
> > but
> > if you advocate open source then why not take the initiative and lead by
> > example?
> >
> > The last one, has been brought up in regards to wrapping a tool with a UI
> > or
> > removing the need for QC files.  With this I think the issue is balancing
> > the technical knowledge and the capabilities of a tool.  However I feel
> it
> > again falls back to a situation where Valve are happy to use it the way
> it
> > is, they understand it and can get any of their tools to do what they
> > need.
> > It's the new, non technical, or perhaps slightly lazy people who would
> > need
> > that more complex aspects automated for them.  I'd refer this back to
> > Hammer, the early days of mapping could often mean rooting around in a
> hex
> > or text editor and as things progressed and art started needing the
> > technical requirements to be simplified you found map editors hiding away
> > the old formats.  Worldcraft and Hammer essentially sit between the user
> > and
> > the BSP, VIS, RAD etc.. compilers.  The format they accept might be, at
> > this
> > stage, more heavily tied into hammer but it's still a front end for
> those.
> > Again perhaps Worldcraft was a special case with Valve gobbling it up,
> > HLMV
> > too, but I think if the community is adamant enough about simplifying and
> > unifying the tool chain then perhaps a bit of proactive 

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Pidcock]

Valve contacted me yesterday to tell me they have successfully implemented a 
new feature.

http://tinyurl.com/4f6mt

I hope to see more of these innovations in the future.

--
From: "Andrew Ritchie" 
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2009 10:21 AM
To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" 
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

> Surely this topic could be split into several different points. Personally 
> I
> see 4 different ones here.
>
> 1) Engine features
> 2) Tools Capabilities
> 3) Tools Availability
> 4) Tools Presentation
>
> The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new features or
> change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
> important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games need
> doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are 
> modding
> their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a lot 
> of
> money and brought huge success but they were also developed around the
> constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR these 
> mods
> to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an engine
> change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
> feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to really
> prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic 
> change
> for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get underway 
> or
> be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things without a 
> lot
> of work, if not at all.
>
> The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, I don't
> mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically allowing 
> the
> chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just use a
> common format.  The tool would need to have the importer and converter
> written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a specific and
> industry accepted intermediate format might be a good cause. Especially if
> it makes life easier for getting the raw assets into a format that the 
> tool
> can then use.
>
> With the availability of tools, I mean those asking that they be open
> source.  Specifically referring to a comment about hammer, look at
> Worldcraft and BSP ( Yahn's editor iirc ) they were originally personal
> projects.  So you could take a leaf and have a bash at your own editor and
> open source it, you never know might turn out to be a better designed 
> tool.
> However just having the source code to hammer, I doubt would be of any
> benefit, you'd have dozens of versions of the tool floating around and do
> you really think you could add something useful to it?  It may have bugs 
> but
> if you advocate open source then why not take the initiative and lead by
> example?
>
> The last one, has been brought up in regards to wrapping a tool with a UI 
> or
> removing the need for QC files.  With this I think the issue is balancing
> the technical knowledge and the capabilities of a tool.  However I feel it
> again falls back to a situation where Valve are happy to use it the way it
> is, they understand it and can get any of their tools to do what they 
> need.
> It's the new, non technical, or perhaps slightly lazy people who would 
> need
> that more complex aspects automated for them.  I'd refer this back to
> Hammer, the early days of mapping could often mean rooting around in a hex
> or text editor and as things progressed and art started needing the
> technical requirements to be simplified you found map editors hiding away
> the old formats.  Worldcraft and Hammer essentially sit between the user 
> and
> the BSP, VIS, RAD etc.. compilers.  The format they accept might be, at 
> this
> stage, more heavily tied into hammer but it's still a front end for those.
> Again perhaps Worldcraft was a special case with Valve gobbling it up, 
> HLMV
> too, but I think if the community is adamant enough about simplifying and
> unifying the tool chain then perhaps a bit of proactive development could
> lead the way or at least prove to Valve that everyone is serious about
> rethinking the way we interact with the SDK.
>
> Ok, sorry bit of a ramble but mainly what I wanted to share was that
> specific things like adding FBX to the formats studiomdl can accept would 
> be
> good ventures as they are specific and have an immediately obvious reason.
> The other stuff like creating a unified system might be something that is
> best approached with good old community spirit.  If you're serious enough
> about wanting to use the engine

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Andrew Ritchie]

Surely this topic could be split into several different points. Personally I
see 4 different ones here.

1) Engine features
2) Tools Capabilities
3) Tools Availability
4) Tools Presentation

The first is ignorable, Valve is clearly only going to add new features or
change things, like BSP and displacement maps, when they think it's
important.  It's their engine and it needs to do what their games need
doing.  If you choose to use Source then you have to accept you are modding
their engine.  Sure TF, CS, DoD etc.. all were mods that made Valve a lot of
money and brought huge success but they were also developed around the
constraints of the engine rather than the engine being built FOR these mods
to be made.  If a technical limitation is big enough to warrent an engine
change then do so rather than hanging about wanting Valve to add the
feature, as big as the previous mentioned mods are you'd need to really
prove you're up to their popularity before Valve would make a drastic change
for you.  So either accept the engine's features before you get underway or
be prepared to encounter the fact you can't do certain things without a lot
of work, if not at all.

The Tools Capabilities I think is what Jed was really getting at, I don't
mean like adding features to hammer and stuff but specifically allowing the
chance for modders to by pass say model exporting to smd and just use a
common format.  The tool would need to have the importer and converter
written but I personally think that approaching Valve with a specific and
industry accepted intermediate format might be a good cause. Especially if
it makes life easier for getting the raw assets into a format that the tool
can then use.

With the availability of tools, I mean those asking that they be open
source.  Specifically referring to a comment about hammer, look at
Worldcraft and BSP ( Yahn's editor iirc ) they were originally personal
projects.  So you could take a leaf and have a bash at your own editor and
open source it, you never know might turn out to be a better designed tool.
However just having the source code to hammer, I doubt would be of any
benefit, you'd have dozens of versions of the tool floating around and do
you really think you could add something useful to it?  It may have bugs but
if you advocate open source then why not take the initiative and lead by
example?

The last one, has been brought up in regards to wrapping a tool with a UI or
removing the need for QC files.  With this I think the issue is balancing
the technical knowledge and the capabilities of a tool.  However I feel it
again falls back to a situation where Valve are happy to use it the way it
is, they understand it and can get any of their tools to do what they need.
It's the new, non technical, or perhaps slightly lazy people who would need
that more complex aspects automated for them.  I'd refer this back to
Hammer, the early days of mapping could often mean rooting around in a hex
or text editor and as things progressed and art started needing the
technical requirements to be simplified you found map editors hiding away
the old formats.  Worldcraft and Hammer essentially sit between the user and
the BSP, VIS, RAD etc.. compilers.  The format they accept might be, at this
stage, more heavily tied into hammer but it's still a front end for those.
Again perhaps Worldcraft was a special case with Valve gobbling it up, HLMV
too, but I think if the community is adamant enough about simplifying and
unifying the tool chain then perhaps a bit of proactive development could
lead the way or at least prove to Valve that everyone is serious about
rethinking the way we interact with the SDK.

Ok, sorry bit of a ramble but mainly what I wanted to share was that
specific things like adding FBX to the formats studiomdl can accept would be
good ventures as they are specific and have an immediately obvious reason.
The other stuff like creating a unified system might be something that is
best approached with good old community spirit.  If you're serious enough
about wanting to use the engine but can genuinely improve the way users
develop for it then get organized and see if it's a viable thing to tackle.
Even if it's just to prove you were right.  I know the later is a bit of a
cop out but Jed, Nem and NS2 (prior to dropping Source ) are examples of
those who have gone out of their way to do so with tools and Garrys mod is a
prime example of taking what is available game code wise and adding the
extensions (Specifically scriptint) you want. Plus it beats just falling
back to the "Valve Needs to Support Mods" and "Valve do whats best for Valve
games and mods need to deal with it" arguments that go no where.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:17 PM, Ben Mears  wrote:

> As a 3D modeller, animator, and mapper, (and not a coder) I agree with what
> Jed said 100%.
>
> Jed, can you please just go work for Valve?
>
> great, thanks!
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Jed  wrote:
>
> > No I wasn't advo

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

Or when Duke Nukem Forever goes gold.

Thanks,
-Saul.

On 25 Jul 2009, at 00:58, Harry Jeffery  
 wrote:

> According to valve time that'll be when hell freezes over. :(
>
> 2009/7/25 Saul Rennison :
>> Like Episode 3 engine?
>>
>> DUN DUN DUN
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Saul.
>>
>> On 25 Jul 2009, at 00:21, Logan Baldock  wrote:
>>
>>> Bob Somers wrote:
 Minh, I was talking about open sourcing their tools. I just don't
 think that makes any business sense for them. It makes sense from  
 our
 perspective, sure, but from theirs... little to none.

 Also, excellent point about adapting your workflow to the engine  
 and
 the other way around. This is the best way to work with any, large,
 complex system. It takes longer to learn how to work in someone
 else's
 environment, but you save loads of time in the long run rather than
 struggling to make someone else's paradigm fit into what you want.

 --Bob





 On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Harry
 Jeffery wrote:

> Minh, I think you just produced the best argument in the
> conversation so far.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives, please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
>

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders



>>> Personally, I think Valve should leave Source as it is for now. If
>>> they're going to take a huge step such as open-sourcing hammer or
>>> adding
>>> scripting support, then they should leave it until they release a  
>>> new
>>> engine.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>> archives, please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list  
>> archives, please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list  
> archives, please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

According to valve time that'll be when hell freezes over. :(

2009/7/25 Saul Rennison :
> Like Episode 3 engine?
>
> DUN DUN DUN
>
> Thanks,
> -Saul.
>
> On 25 Jul 2009, at 00:21, Logan Baldock  wrote:
>
>> Bob Somers wrote:
>>> Minh, I was talking about open sourcing their tools. I just don't
>>> think that makes any business sense for them. It makes sense from our
>>> perspective, sure, but from theirs... little to none.
>>>
>>> Also, excellent point about adapting your workflow to the engine and
>>> the other way around. This is the best way to work with any, large,
>>> complex system. It takes longer to learn how to work in someone
>>> else's
>>> environment, but you save loads of time in the long run rather than
>>> struggling to make someone else's paradigm fit into what you want.
>>>
>>> --Bob
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Harry
>>> Jeffery wrote:
>>>
 Minh, I think you just produced the best argument in the
 conversation so far.

 ___
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 archives, please visit:
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>>>
>>> ___
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>>> archives, please visit:
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Personally, I think Valve should leave Source as it is for now. If
>> they're going to take a huge step such as open-sourcing hammer or
>> adding
>> scripting support, then they should leave it until they release a new
>> engine.
>>
>> ___
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

Like Episode 3 engine?

DUN DUN DUN

Thanks,
-Saul.

On 25 Jul 2009, at 00:21, Logan Baldock  wrote:

> Bob Somers wrote:
>> Minh, I was talking about open sourcing their tools. I just don't
>> think that makes any business sense for them. It makes sense from our
>> perspective, sure, but from theirs... little to none.
>>
>> Also, excellent point about adapting your workflow to the engine and
>> the other way around. This is the best way to work with any, large,
>> complex system. It takes longer to learn how to work in someone  
>> else's
>> environment, but you save loads of time in the long run rather than
>> struggling to make someone else's paradigm fit into what you want.
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Harry
>> Jeffery wrote:
>>
>>> Minh, I think you just produced the best argument in the  
>>> conversation so far.
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> archives, please visit:
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>>>
>>>
>>
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>> archives, please visit:
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>>
>>
> Personally, I think Valve should leave Source as it is for now. If
> they're going to take a huge step such as open-sourcing hammer or  
> adding
> scripting support, then they should leave it until they release a new
> engine.
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Logan Baldock]

Bob Somers wrote:
> Minh, I was talking about open sourcing their tools. I just don't
> think that makes any business sense for them. It makes sense from our
> perspective, sure, but from theirs... little to none.
>
> Also, excellent point about adapting your workflow to the engine and
> the other way around. This is the best way to work with any, large,
> complex system. It takes longer to learn how to work in someone else's
> environment, but you save loads of time in the long run rather than
> struggling to make someone else's paradigm fit into what you want.
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Harry
> Jeffery wrote:
>   
>> Minh, I think you just produced the best argument in the conversation so far.
>>
>> ___
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>> please visit:
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>>
>> 
>
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>
>   
Personally, I think Valve should leave Source as it is for now. If 
they're going to take a huge step such as open-sourcing hammer or adding 
scripting support, then they should leave it until they release a new 
engine.

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Bob Somers]

Minh, I was talking about open sourcing their tools. I just don't
think that makes any business sense for them. It makes sense from our
perspective, sure, but from theirs... little to none.

Also, excellent point about adapting your workflow to the engine and
the other way around. This is the best way to work with any, large,
complex system. It takes longer to learn how to work in someone else's
environment, but you save loads of time in the long run rather than
struggling to make someone else's paradigm fit into what you want.

--Bob





On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Harry
Jeffery wrote:
> Minh, I think you just produced the best argument in the conversation so far.
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

Minh, I think you just produced the best argument in the conversation so far.

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Ben Mears]

As a 3D modeller, animator, and mapper, (and not a coder) I agree with what
Jed said 100%.

Jed, can you please just go work for Valve?

great, thanks!

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Jed  wrote:

> No I wasn't advocating an 3D app -> MDL path. Simply adding support
> for a more common/cross platform 3D format to those that StudioMDL
> supports.
>
> The problem with the SMD format is that it's an old format from and
> old engine and requires plug-ins to be written for 3D apps to support
> it. This leaves it down to Valve to write them.
>
> Take Max for example - a plug-in for one version does not
> automatically work with another, it needs to be recompiled against the
> new versions SDK. A shop like Valve is probably only going to have one
> version and not upgrade every time a new one comes along. Therefore
> SMD plug-ins for other versions are going to have to be made by the 3D
> app users themselves.
>
> Now there are plenty of suitable cross-app 3D formats such as DAE,
> FBX, etc. that Valve could add support for to the StudioMDL compiler
> (and I've vocally expressed this to Valve many times) in *addition* to
> the SMD, OBJ and MRM formats it already supports.
>
> So why should they do it?
>
> - Common file format means more 3D apps that can produce content
> out-of-the-box or via publisher made plug-ins. For example DAE/FBX is
> supported by XSI, Maya, Max, Blender, Milkshape3D, etc, etc.
> - Gives modders/studios/licensees choice to use the 3D app of their
> choice to create content.
> - Valve doesn't need to produce plug-ins for apps, just support the
> format in the compiler.
>
> Simply put SMD format is binding end users to the few apps that write
> it and the generosity of community users such as myself, Prall, et al.
> to write these plug-ins for the 3D apps we want to use.
>
> Interesting case in point - a Canadian studio approached me once
> asking me when my plug-ins would be available for 3DS Max 2009 because
> that was their in-shop 3D content creation tool and they had invested
> a lot of money in software and training and didn't want to have to
> move to something else. Their apparent decision to purchase a Source
> license for their title was hanging on the availability of plug-ins
> for Max.
>
> My main issue with some of the SDK tool is that that it feels like
> Valve aren't being smart about it. Good tools means wider adoption
> which might result in more licensees and from a modders perspective,
> more people getting into it and maybe making the next CSS/TF2/Portal
> that Valve can snap up as their IP. I think Valve should have a
> dedicated tool guy (not me) turning out polished useful tools - not
> this rehashed crap that's hung over from Half-Life 1.
>
> - Start over with StudioMDL - make it a GUI app from the start (and
> adding batch/scripting to it wouldn't be hard)
> - Make HLMV a proper MFC of WPF app and get rid of the old buggy mxtk
> GUI from Mete's HLMV.
> - Add support form more 3D modern file formats and eventually phase
> out SMD, etc.
> - If for license/NDA reasons you can't release all the source code for
> apps, at least release parts of it. A lot can be learned from even
> partial code that could help us as modders make our own apps.
> - Add some SDK tool API stuff - for example code to render a 3D window
> like in HLMV. It can still require steam but make it accessible so
> that developers can add support for model rendering in other apps.
> - Polished tools will make the SDK/Engine more attractive to end
> users. Modding shouldn't be a right of passage but a warm welcoming
> experience to inspire the next great ideas.
>
> I could go on but you get the general idea...
>
> - Jed
>
>
> 2009/7/24 Jorge Rodriguez :
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Minh  wrote:
> >
> >> The .smd format is extremely robust the way  accomodates reference
> meshes,
> >> AND skeletal animation. So you want a method to go straight from 3d
> model /
> >> animation -> .mdl ?
> >> How is that going to work with parametric animation? where you can
> combine
> >> multiple .smds to make an animation?
> >
> >
> > Minh, while the capabilities of the studio compiler are formidable, it
> still
> > leaves much to be desired in terms of file format and syntax. Don't tell
> me
> > you've never struggled with the qc format. I am constantly having
> problems
> > with its limitations. It's a rather robust system that allows for
> combining
> > animations in many interesting ways, but the syntax still pisses me off
> > quite a bit, and the technicality of it leaves it out of reach of most
> > artists. I hear Valve wrote some simple tools around it, but I'm
> surprised
> > they haven't replaced it entirely.
> >
> > The SMD format is perhaps a bit clunky, but I don't have too many
> problems
> > with it, because it does exactly what is needed, even if it does it in a
> bit
> > of a backwards way.
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Joel R.]

Not to mention this engine took many years to build, if they take just as
much time on the next engine they would have to start now.  Source Engine
will only last so long as a modern engine.  Maybe we're in for some of that
knock your heads off excitement.  From a business perspective it must be
done.


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Minh  wrote:

>I don't think addressing these concerns would hurt their profits at all.
> I imagine many of the folks at Valve are aware and in fact, would like to
> fix these issues but they choose to prioritize their time on other things.
> We don't even know what they're working on these days so it's hard for us
> to
> say that they're not addressing these problems internally.
>Rest assured, they are reading these forums and they are aware of the
> concerns. Their decision to address them is strictly their prerogative. I'm
> sure many of us would do things differently if we had our foot in Valve's
> offices but that's what seperates us from Valve.
>As an amateur developer, I've learned to just work with the tools that
> have been given to me.. I'm aware of the engine's deficiencies but I choose
> to work with it because it offers me what i need. If I chose to work with
> the Unreal engine, I'm sure I can come up with a list of things I'd like to
> change in that engine as well.
>I think it's easier to adapt my workflow to the engine, than to wait on
> the engine developer to adapt the engine to my workflow... especially when
> we all know that Valve are more focused on making great games than making
> easy to use engine + tools. You guys might be waiting for awhile...
>
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Bob Somers" 
> To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming"  >
> Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
>
>
> > No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
> > money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer
> wrote:
> >> In a nutshell, asking far too much.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
> >>
> >>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Give modders better tools:
> >>> Open source hammer.
> >>> Open source all tools.
> >>> Release specs on proprietary formats
> >>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> >>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> >>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
> >>>
> >>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> ~Ryan ( skidz )
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> >> please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
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> > please visit:
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> >
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Minh]

I don't think addressing these concerns would hurt their profits at all. 
I imagine many of the folks at Valve are aware and in fact, would like to 
fix these issues but they choose to prioritize their time on other things. 
We don't even know what they're working on these days so it's hard for us to 
say that they're not addressing these problems internally.
Rest assured, they are reading these forums and they are aware of the 
concerns. Their decision to address them is strictly their prerogative. I'm 
sure many of us would do things differently if we had our foot in Valve's 
offices but that's what seperates us from Valve.
As an amateur developer, I've learned to just work with the tools that 
have been given to me.. I'm aware of the engine's deficiencies but I choose 
to work with it because it offers me what i need. If I chose to work with 
the Unreal engine, I'm sure I can come up with a list of things I'd like to 
change in that engine as well.
I think it's easier to adapt my workflow to the engine, than to wait on 
the engine developer to adapt the engine to my workflow... especially when 
we all know that Valve are more focused on making great games than making 
easy to use engine + tools. You guys might be waiting for awhile...


- Original Message - 
From: "Bob Somers" 
To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" 
Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine


> No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
> money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer wrote:
>> In a nutshell, asking far too much.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
>>
>>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Give modders better tools:
>>> Open source hammer.
>>> Open source all tools.
>>> Release specs on proprietary formats
>>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
>>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
>>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>>>
>>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~Ryan ( skidz )
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

Have you tried Python properly? :)

Thanks,
- Saul.


2009/7/24 Garry Newman 

> I'd still choose Lua's syntax over Python's though. I just want PHP
> scripting in my game :0
>
> As for the engine. Yeah sometimes it feels stupid and old, but it
> seems like every time you start to count Valve out they come back and
> knock your head off with some awesome shit.
>
> garry
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Harry
> Jeffery wrote:
> > Well at least Garry has sanity. I always wondered why he used lua.
> > Python is much easier. Look what some guy did to bf2 using the python
> > modding capabilities: http://sandboxmod.com/
> >
> > 2009/7/24 Saul Rennison :
> >> "Enable a lua added version of sdk"
> >> As soon as Garry uses Lua, which even he now accepts to be absolutely
> >> disgusting, everyone thinks it's absolutely brilliant: it's a terrible
> >> language. You'd be better off with a better C++ API and or Python
> scripting.
> >>
> >> "(release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)"
> >> What's that supposed to mean?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> - Saul.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2009/7/24 Nick 
> >>
> >>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Give modders better tools:
> >>> Open source hammer.
> >>> Open source all tools.
> >>> Release specs on proprietary formats
> >>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> >>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> >>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
> >>>
> >>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Kohan Venets]

garry said:
> Yeah sometimes it feels stupid and old, but it
> seems like every time you start to count Valve out they come back and
> knock your head off with some awesome shit.

This.

-Kohan



> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 21:11:38 +0100
> From: garrynew...@gmail.com
> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> 
> I'd still choose Lua's syntax over Python's though. I just want PHP
> scripting in my game :0
> 
> As for the engine. Yeah sometimes it feels stupid and old, but it
> seems like every time you start to count Valve out they come back and
> knock your head off with some awesome shit.
> 
> garry
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Harry
> Jeffery wrote:
> > Well at least Garry has sanity. I always wondered why he used lua.
> > Python is much easier. Look what some guy did to bf2 using the python
> > modding capabilities: http://sandboxmod.com/
> >
> > 2009/7/24 Saul Rennison :
> >> "Enable a lua added version of sdk"
> >> As soon as Garry uses Lua, which even he now accepts to be absolutely
> >> disgusting, everyone thinks it's absolutely brilliant: it's a terrible
> >> language. You'd be better off with a better C++ API and or Python 
> >> scripting.
> >>
> >> "(release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)"
> >> What's that supposed to mean?
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> - Saul.
> >>
> >>
> >> 2009/7/24 Nick 
> >>
> >>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Give modders better tools:
> >>> Open source hammer.
> >>> Open source all tools.
> >>> Release specs on proprietary formats
> >>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> >>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> >>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
> >>>
> >>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> >>> please visit:
> >>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>>
> >>>
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
> >> please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
> > please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
> 
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jed]

No I wasn't advocating an 3D app -> MDL path. Simply adding support
for a more common/cross platform 3D format to those that StudioMDL
supports.

The problem with the SMD format is that it's an old format from and
old engine and requires plug-ins to be written for 3D apps to support
it. This leaves it down to Valve to write them.

Take Max for example - a plug-in for one version does not
automatically work with another, it needs to be recompiled against the
new versions SDK. A shop like Valve is probably only going to have one
version and not upgrade every time a new one comes along. Therefore
SMD plug-ins for other versions are going to have to be made by the 3D
app users themselves.

Now there are plenty of suitable cross-app 3D formats such as DAE,
FBX, etc. that Valve could add support for to the StudioMDL compiler
(and I've vocally expressed this to Valve many times) in *addition* to
the SMD, OBJ and MRM formats it already supports.

So why should they do it?

- Common file format means more 3D apps that can produce content
out-of-the-box or via publisher made plug-ins. For example DAE/FBX is
supported by XSI, Maya, Max, Blender, Milkshape3D, etc, etc.
- Gives modders/studios/licensees choice to use the 3D app of their
choice to create content.
- Valve doesn't need to produce plug-ins for apps, just support the
format in the compiler.

Simply put SMD format is binding end users to the few apps that write
it and the generosity of community users such as myself, Prall, et al.
to write these plug-ins for the 3D apps we want to use.

Interesting case in point - a Canadian studio approached me once
asking me when my plug-ins would be available for 3DS Max 2009 because
that was their in-shop 3D content creation tool and they had invested
a lot of money in software and training and didn't want to have to
move to something else. Their apparent decision to purchase a Source
license for their title was hanging on the availability of plug-ins
for Max.

My main issue with some of the SDK tool is that that it feels like
Valve aren't being smart about it. Good tools means wider adoption
which might result in more licensees and from a modders perspective,
more people getting into it and maybe making the next CSS/TF2/Portal
that Valve can snap up as their IP. I think Valve should have a
dedicated tool guy (not me) turning out polished useful tools - not
this rehashed crap that's hung over from Half-Life 1.

- Start over with StudioMDL - make it a GUI app from the start (and
adding batch/scripting to it wouldn't be hard)
- Make HLMV a proper MFC of WPF app and get rid of the old buggy mxtk
GUI from Mete's HLMV.
- Add support form more 3D modern file formats and eventually phase
out SMD, etc.
- If for license/NDA reasons you can't release all the source code for
apps, at least release parts of it. A lot can be learned from even
partial code that could help us as modders make our own apps.
- Add some SDK tool API stuff - for example code to render a 3D window
like in HLMV. It can still require steam but make it accessible so
that developers can add support for model rendering in other apps.
- Polished tools will make the SDK/Engine more attractive to end
users. Modding shouldn't be a right of passage but a warm welcoming
experience to inspire the next great ideas.

I could go on but you get the general idea...

- Jed


2009/7/24 Jorge Rodriguez :
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Minh  wrote:
>
>> The .smd format is extremely robust the way  accomodates reference meshes,
>> AND skeletal animation. So you want a method to go straight from 3d model /
>> animation -> .mdl ?
>> How is that going to work with parametric animation? where you can combine
>> multiple .smds to make an animation?
>
>
> Minh, while the capabilities of the studio compiler are formidable, it still
> leaves much to be desired in terms of file format and syntax. Don't tell me
> you've never struggled with the qc format. I am constantly having problems
> with its limitations. It's a rather robust system that allows for combining
> animations in many interesting ways, but the syntax still pisses me off
> quite a bit, and the technicality of it leaves it out of reach of most
> artists. I hear Valve wrote some simple tools around it, but I'm surprised
> they haven't replaced it entirely.
>
> The SMD format is perhaps a bit clunky, but I don't have too many problems
> with it, because it does exactly what is needed, even if it does it in a bit
> of a backwards way.

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Garry Newman]

I'd still choose Lua's syntax over Python's though. I just want PHP
scripting in my game :0

As for the engine. Yeah sometimes it feels stupid and old, but it
seems like every time you start to count Valve out they come back and
knock your head off with some awesome shit.

garry


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:58 PM, Harry
Jeffery wrote:
> Well at least Garry has sanity. I always wondered why he used lua.
> Python is much easier. Look what some guy did to bf2 using the python
> modding capabilities: http://sandboxmod.com/
>
> 2009/7/24 Saul Rennison :
>> "Enable a lua added version of sdk"
>> As soon as Garry uses Lua, which even he now accepts to be absolutely
>> disgusting, everyone thinks it's absolutely brilliant: it's a terrible
>> language. You'd be better off with a better C++ API and or Python scripting.
>>
>> "(release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)"
>> What's that supposed to mean?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Saul.
>>
>>
>> 2009/7/24 Nick 
>>
>>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Give modders better tools:
>>> Open source hammer.
>>> Open source all tools.
>>> Release specs on proprietary formats
>>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
>>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
>>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>>>
>>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> visit:
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>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

Well at least Garry has sanity. I always wondered why he used lua.
Python is much easier. Look what some guy did to bf2 using the python
modding capabilities: http://sandboxmod.com/

2009/7/24 Saul Rennison :
> "Enable a lua added version of sdk"
> As soon as Garry uses Lua, which even he now accepts to be absolutely
> disgusting, everyone thinks it's absolutely brilliant: it's a terrible
> language. You'd be better off with a better C++ API and or Python scripting.
>
> "(release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)"
> What's that supposed to mean?
>
> Thanks,
> - Saul.
>
>
> 2009/7/24 Nick 
>
>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>>
>>
>> Give modders better tools:
>> Open source hammer.
>> Open source all tools.
>> Release specs on proprietary formats
>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>>
>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
> ___
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> visit:
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>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Joel R.]

Ahh Saul, I guess I'm a bit outdated.  From what I remember, they had kept
some content formats and were slowly converting them to their own formats.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:

> "And it will all have derived from the Source Engine."
> If you've read their blog you'll know they started from scratch.
>
> "gutted them out and rewrote them."
> Again, no. They decided to make their own engine to fit their own needs as
> they weren't very experianced with Source.
>
> Thanks,
> - Saul.
>
>
> 2009/7/24 Joel R. 
>
> > Profit making? The only games that made profit on the source engine are
> the
> > ones by valve and the one by garry.
> >
> > I believe the NS2 engine will be everything you guys here wanted.  They
> > took
> > all the best aspects of the source engine, gutted them out and rewrote
> > them.  They will have better tools, better everything, all written by 2
> > guys
> > (probably just 1 guy).  And it will all have derived from the Source
> > Engine.  From what little we have seen it seems to be shaping up quite
> > nicely.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Bob Somers 
> wrote:
> >
> > > No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
> > > money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
> > >
> > > --Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer
> > wrote:
> > > > In a nutshell, asking far too much.
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> Give modders better tools:
> > > >> Open source hammer.
> > > >> Open source all tools.
> > > >> Release specs on proprietary formats
> > > >> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> > > >> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> > > >> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
> > > >>
> > > >> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
> > > >>
> > > >> ___
> > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> > > >> please visit:
> > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > ~Ryan ( skidz )
> > > > ___
> > > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
> ___
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> please visit:
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>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jorge Rodriguez]

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:41 AM, Minh  wrote:

> The .smd format is extremely robust the way  accomodates reference meshes,
> AND skeletal animation. So you want a method to go straight from 3d model /
> animation -> .mdl ?
> How is that going to work with parametric animation? where you can combine
> multiple .smds to make an animation?


Minh, while the capabilities of the studio compiler are formidable, it still
leaves much to be desired in terms of file format and syntax. Don't tell me
you've never struggled with the qc format. I am constantly having problems
with its limitations. It's a rather robust system that allows for combining
animations in many interesting ways, but the syntax still pisses me off
quite a bit, and the technicality of it leaves it out of reach of most
artists. I hear Valve wrote some simple tools around it, but I'm surprised
they haven't replaced it entirely.

The SMD format is perhaps a bit clunky, but I don't have too many problems
with it, because it does exactly what is needed, even if it does it in a bit
of a backwards way.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Joel R.  wrote:

> I believe the NS2 engine will be everything you guys here wanted.  They
> took
> all the best aspects of the source engine, gutted them out and rewrote
> them.  They will have better tools, better everything, all written by 2
> guys
> (probably just 1 guy).  And it will all have derived from the Source
> Engine.  From what little we have seen it seems to be shaping up quite
> nicely.
>

I don't mean to detract from the efforts of the UW guys, but creating their
own engine for NS2 was a huge undertaking and they may have gotten in over
their heads. I heard from a reliable source in March that it was supposed to
be out this summer, but I don't see them as being anywhere close to that.
Moreover, the NS2 engine is not based on the Source engine at all, as
licensing restrictions prevent them from using anything from Valve, even
file formats. Last I saw, they hadn't ported over to their own file formats
yet, and it's easy to underestimate all of the behind the scenes stuff that
Source does that they have to rewrite. (i18n, networking, scene management,
resources, fx systems, and so on.) I want to play NS2 as badly as you do,
but I wouldn't hold your breath for this "superior technology," which will
likely end up being just another way of drawing those corridors and hallways
that NS2 is full of, that everybody keeps complaining about in this thread.
All we've seen so far is a tech demo and a teaser trailer, which signals to
me that they still have a while to go. (And a sincere good luck to them
too.)

-- 
Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

"And it will all have derived from the Source Engine."
If you've read their blog you'll know they started from scratch.

"gutted them out and rewrote them."
Again, no. They decided to make their own engine to fit their own needs as
they weren't very experianced with Source.

Thanks,
- Saul.


2009/7/24 Joel R. 

> Profit making? The only games that made profit on the source engine are the
> ones by valve and the one by garry.
>
> I believe the NS2 engine will be everything you guys here wanted.  They
> took
> all the best aspects of the source engine, gutted them out and rewrote
> them.  They will have better tools, better everything, all written by 2
> guys
> (probably just 1 guy).  And it will all have derived from the Source
> Engine.  From what little we have seen it seems to be shaping up quite
> nicely.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Bob Somers  wrote:
>
> > No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
> > money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer
> wrote:
> > > In a nutshell, asking far too much.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
> > >
> > >> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Give modders better tools:
> > >> Open source hammer.
> > >> Open source all tools.
> > >> Release specs on proprietary formats
> > >> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> > >> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> > >> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
> > >>
> > >> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
> > >>
> > >> ___
> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > >> please visit:
> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > ~Ryan ( skidz )
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
> ___
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

"Enable a lua added version of sdk"
As soon as Garry uses Lua, which even he now accepts to be absolutely
disgusting, everyone thinks it's absolutely brilliant: it's a terrible
language. You'd be better off with a better C++ API and or Python scripting.

"(release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)"
What's that supposed to mean?

Thanks,
- Saul.


2009/7/24 Nick 

> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>
>
> Give modders better tools:
> Open source hammer.
> Open source all tools.
> Release specs on proprietary formats
> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>
> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[botman]

...and then pigs will fly.  :)


On 7/24/2009 2:19 PM, Joel R. wrote:
> Profit making? The only games that made profit on the source engine are the
> ones by valve and the one by garry.
>
> I believe the NS2 engine will be everything you guys here wanted.  They took
> all the best aspects of the source engine, gutted them out and rewrote
> them.  They will have better tools, better everything, all written by 2 guys
> (probably just 1 guy).  And it will all have derived from the Source
> Engine.  From what little we have seen it seems to be shaping up quite
> nicely.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Bob Somers  wrote:
>
>> No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
>> money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer  wrote:
>>> In a nutshell, asking far too much.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
>>>
 I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.


 Give modders better tools:
 Open source hammer.
 Open source all tools.
 Release specs on proprietary formats
 Enable a lua added version of sdk
 allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
 (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)

 Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


>>>
>>> --
>>> ~Ryan ( skidz )
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
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> visit:
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>

-- 
Jeffrey "botman" Broome

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

NS2 engine? Please enlighten us with more than that acronym.

2009/7/24 Joel R. :
> Profit making? The only games that made profit on the source engine are the
> ones by valve and the one by garry.
>
> I believe the NS2 engine will be everything you guys here wanted.  They took
> all the best aspects of the source engine, gutted them out and rewrote
> them.  They will have better tools, better everything, all written by 2 guys
> (probably just 1 guy).  And it will all have derived from the Source
> Engine.  From what little we have seen it seems to be shaping up quite
> nicely.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Bob Somers  wrote:
>
>> No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
>> money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer wrote:
>> > In a nutshell, asking far too much.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
>> >
>> >> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Give modders better tools:
>> >> Open source hammer.
>> >> Open source all tools.
>> >> Release specs on proprietary formats
>> >> Enable a lua added version of sdk
>> >> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
>> >> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>> >>
>> >> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>> >>
>> >> ___
>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> >> please visit:
>> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ~Ryan ( skidz )
>> > ___
>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
> ___
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> visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

I've personally not had a problem with the toolset myself. If
developers want a nice easy way to make a fps game they should grab a
copy of fpscreator or darkbasic. But if you're serious about modding
then source engine is fine. Good code access, a wiki with lots of
useful information and a community who answers questions.

We have what we need if we include Jed's stuff. Why should valve spend
time and money remaking them when they already exist in the community?

It's like valve deciding the hoodoo was a good map for tf2 and so they
decide to build it from ground up. Bad idea. Much easier just to make
it official in it's current state.

2009/7/24 Bob Somers :
> No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
> money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer wrote:
>> In a nutshell, asking far too much.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
>>
>>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Give modders better tools:
>>> Open source hammer.
>>> Open source all tools.
>>> Release specs on proprietary formats
>>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
>>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
>>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>>>
>>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ~Ryan ( skidz )
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Joel R.]

Profit making? The only games that made profit on the source engine are the
ones by valve and the one by garry.

I believe the NS2 engine will be everything you guys here wanted.  They took
all the best aspects of the source engine, gutted them out and rewrote
them.  They will have better tools, better everything, all written by 2 guys
(probably just 1 guy).  And it will all have derived from the Source
Engine.  From what little we have seen it seems to be shaping up quite
nicely.




On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 2:11 PM, Bob Somers  wrote:

> No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
> money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer wrote:
> > In a nutshell, asking far too much.
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
> >
> >> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
> >>
> >>
> >> Give modders better tools:
> >> Open source hammer.
> >> Open source all tools.
> >> Release specs on proprietary formats
> >> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> >> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> >> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
> >>
> >> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
> >>
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> >> please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~Ryan ( skidz )
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>
> ___
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Bob Somers]

No kidding. Nothing like asking a company who's in business to make
money to throw their profit making tools into the public domain...

--Bob



On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Ryan Sheffer wrote:
> In a nutshell, asking far too much.
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:
>
>> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>>
>>
>> Give modders better tools:
>> Open source hammer.
>> Open source all tools.
>> Release specs on proprietary formats
>> Enable a lua added version of sdk
>> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
>> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>>
>> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> ~Ryan ( skidz )
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
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>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Ryan Sheffer]

In a nutshell, asking far too much.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Nick  wrote:

> I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.
>
>
> Give modders better tools:
> Open source hammer.
> Open source all tools.
> Release specs on proprietary formats
> Enable a lua added version of sdk
> allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
> (release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)
>
> Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>


-- 
~Ryan ( skidz )
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Nick]

I basically summed up the entire thread for everyone.


Give modders better tools:
Open source hammer.
Open source all tools.
Release specs on proprietary formats
Enable a lua added version of sdk
allow some sort of documentation of the non-released parts of sdk
(release entire sdk, but have only clientside code available)

Make it easier to create content, and modify the engine.

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jonathan Murphy]

As much as I hate to admit it, in my eyes, Valve has definitely fallen out
of my favour for purposes of "modding". I think the problem is that the
engine and processes have gotten much more complex than the HL1 days. The
purpose of modding is (well at least I think it is) to give amateur gamers
an avenue to creating games easily and quickly. The Source engine doesn't
fulfill this requirement anymore, learning the tools, asset pipelines and
code (or even C++!) present a large barrier to "getting started". If someone
with minimal experience came up to me right now and asked me how to "learn"
development I would most likely point them in the direction of the Unreal
engine first.

But of course the ability to write your mod in C++ presents lots of
interesting avenues that Unreal Script probably can't compare to. And it is
quite feasible to learn the asset processes but it's very easy to get
discouraged with the time it takes to "make a game" on the Source engine.

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 10:51 PM, botman  wrote:

> How DARE you come on to this list and respond with a well thought out
> and reasonable response?  Don't you know this this list is only for
> whiners and n00bs?  GTFO!!1!  :)
>
> On 7/23/2009 7:28 PM, Bob Somers wrote:
> > With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
> > ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
> > business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
> > shows how well they do it.
> >
> > Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
> > not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
> > Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
> > but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
> > "too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.
> >
> > I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
> > there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
> > scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
> > anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
> > GUI (at least, not very easily at all).
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul Rennison
>  wrote:
> >> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
> >> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But GCF
> >> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
> >>
> >> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
> >> heres my 2 pence:
> >> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
> >> Source should move to DAE.
> >> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
> >> only need the code / snippets from it.
> >>
> >> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Saul.
> >>
> >> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
> >>   wrote:
> >>
> >>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
> >>> plugins I think it would work great.
> >>>
> >>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
> >>>
> >>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman:
>  Because...
> 
>  Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
>  hard to
>  understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
> 
>  Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
>  the GCFS
>  quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
>  solution there.
>  Displacements could also be an issue.
> 
>  I'd imagine it's possible.
> 
> 
> 
>  On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery<
>  harry101jeff...@googlemail.com>  wrote:
> 
> > 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> > 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> > 3. Studios pay for license
> > 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> > 5. ?
> > 6. Profit!
> >
> > But seriously, it can be done.
> >
> > And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
> > opensource version with python support for plugins.
> >
> > 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez:
> >> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
> >> forget
> > that
> >> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it
> >> doesn't
> > scale
> >> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large
> >> areas.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >> archives,
> > please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > archives,
> > please visit:
> >

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[botman]

How DARE you come on to this list and respond with a well thought out 
and reasonable response?  Don't you know this this list is only for 
whiners and n00bs?  GTFO!!1!  :)

On 7/23/2009 7:28 PM, Bob Somers wrote:
> With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
> ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
> business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
> shows how well they do it.
>
> Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
> not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
> Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
> but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
> "too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.
>
> I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
> there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
> scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
> anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
> GUI (at least, not very easily at all).
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul Rennison  
> wrote:
>> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
>> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But GCF
>> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
>>
>> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
>> heres my 2 pence:
>> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
>> Source should move to DAE.
>> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
>> only need the code / snippets from it.
>>
>> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Saul.
>>
>> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
>>   wrote:
>>
>>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
>>> plugins I think it would work great.
>>>
>>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
>>>
>>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman:
 Because...

 Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
 hard to
 understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.

 Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
 the GCFS
 quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
 solution there.
 Displacements could also be an issue.

 I'd imagine it's possible.



 On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery<
 harry101jeff...@googlemail.com>  wrote:

> 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> 3. Studios pay for license
> 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> 5. ?
> 6. Profit!
>
> But seriously, it can be done.
>
> And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
> opensource version with python support for plugins.
>
> 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez:
>> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
>> forget
> that
>> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it
>> doesn't
> scale
>> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large
>> areas.
>>
>> --
>> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>> archives,
> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>> archives, please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>

-- 
Jeffrey "botman" Broome

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

No offense lech but

subtractive brushes - sounds a lot like the hollow tool to me, you'd
be far better off doing things manually

terrain layers - displacements are more precise at the expense of a
slightly harder implementation (Due to them only being where you want
them they might actually be better for performance)a

sprite emitters ui - you talking about particle effects creator? in
that case load the game with the -tools command line option.

I hate trying to escape into directions that look reachable only to
hit an invisible wall - sorry but that to me means your level
designers aren't doing their job properly, I've never had that problem
in any of the official maps in the games inside the orangebox

Bear in mind I'm unfamilar with UT toolset so I may be
mis-interpretting what you mean.

2009/7/24 Lech :
> Breaking stuff comes with the territory... but really it's not the
> tools, it's how you use them. And given how old the tech is, I'm
> amazed how long Valve has managed to push the limits of the engine
> without really changing the tool chain dramatically.
>
> I'm still waiting for the day they personally blow me away by
> introducing subtractive brushes, terrain layers along with a built-in
> UI for creating your own sprite emitters and shaders like UT has
> already had for years. As much as I sometimes love how everything is
> merely a set of large corridors which tricks you into thinking it's
> not, I hate trying to escape into directions that look reachable only
> to hit an invisible wall.
>
> -L
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:21 AM, Matt
> Hoffman wrote:
>> They seem to break stuff fixing other things.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Jonathan Murphy
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I certainly couldn't complain, where I work we make our level environments
>>> entirely in 3DSMAX... :(
>>>
>>> I imagine that if Valve is like most developers then they are quite adept
>>> enough at using their own tools that they don't see a huge need to "revamp"
>>> things into the more agile form that today's engines tool chains are moving
>>> towards. Sure there might be some benefit there but they seem to quite
>>> suffice as the quality of Valves games attest to. If it ain't broke, why
>>> fix
>>> it?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Ryan Sheffer  wrote:
>>>
>>> > I remember some guy was developing an alternative to Hammer. I don't know
>>> > what happened with that but it looked promising.
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Bob Somers 
>>> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > G typos...
>>> > >
>>> > > send => sending
>>> > > without => within
>>> > >
>>> > > --Bob
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Bob Somers
>>> > wrote:
>>> > > > There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
>>> > > > your own improvements. Just be civil about it.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
>>> > > > suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
>>> > > > people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like
>>> "here's
>>> > > > why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
>>> > > > fix".
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
>>> > > > least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list,
>>> not
>>> > > > a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > *steps off soap box*
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --Bob
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas<
>>> giaym.m...@gmail.com>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > > >> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
>>> > > >> ___
>>> > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>> archives,
>>> > > please visit:
>>> > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ___
>>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> > > please visit:
>>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > ~Ryan ( skidz )
>>> > ___
>>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> > please visit:
>>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Programmer for Resistance and Liberation
>>> www.resistanceandliberation.com
>>> Programmer for Red Tribe
>>> www.redtribe.com
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/list

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Minh]

I think that project is defunct. Apparently making a better hammer is harder 
than just saying "Let's make a better Hammer"

- Original Message - 
From: "Ryan Sheffer" 
To: "Discussion of Half-Life Programming" 
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 8:10 PM
Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine


>I remember some guy was developing an alternative to Hammer. I don't know
> what happened with that but it looked promising.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Bob Somers  wrote:
>
>> G typos...
>>
>> send => sending
>> without => within
>>
>> --Bob
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Bob Somers wrote:
>> > There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
>> > your own improvements. Just be civil about it.
>> >
>> > I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
>> > suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
>> > people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like "here's
>> > why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
>> > fix".
>> >
>> > Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
>> > least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list, not
>> > a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.
>> >
>> > *steps off soap box*
>> >
>> > --Bob
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas
>> wrote:
>> >> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
>> >> ___
>> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> ~Ryan ( skidz )
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> 


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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Minh]

- Why the hell are we still using SMD? Take a continuous mesh model,
break it into triangles and re-compile it into tri-strips at compile.
Hint Valve - either adapt your SMD/OBJ MRM hybrid format or just use
DAE/FBX for God's sake. You'll find you don't need "us" to make SMD
support for every 3D app out there if you adopt a cross application 3D
format.


The .smd format is extremely robust the way  accomodates reference meshes, 
AND skeletal animation. So you want a method to go straight from 3d model / 
animation -> .mdl ?
How is that going to work with parametric animation? where you can combine 
multiple .smds to make an animation? 


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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Lech]

Breaking stuff comes with the territory... but really it's not the
tools, it's how you use them. And given how old the tech is, I'm
amazed how long Valve has managed to push the limits of the engine
without really changing the tool chain dramatically.

I'm still waiting for the day they personally blow me away by
introducing subtractive brushes, terrain layers along with a built-in
UI for creating your own sprite emitters and shaders like UT has
already had for years. As much as I sometimes love how everything is
merely a set of large corridors which tricks you into thinking it's
not, I hate trying to escape into directions that look reachable only
to hit an invisible wall.

-L

On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 12:21 AM, Matt
Hoffman wrote:
> They seem to break stuff fixing other things.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Jonathan Murphy
> wrote:
>
>> I certainly couldn't complain, where I work we make our level environments
>> entirely in 3DSMAX... :(
>>
>> I imagine that if Valve is like most developers then they are quite adept
>> enough at using their own tools that they don't see a huge need to "revamp"
>> things into the more agile form that today's engines tool chains are moving
>> towards. Sure there might be some benefit there but they seem to quite
>> suffice as the quality of Valves games attest to. If it ain't broke, why
>> fix
>> it?
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Ryan Sheffer  wrote:
>>
>> > I remember some guy was developing an alternative to Hammer. I don't know
>> > what happened with that but it looked promising.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Bob Somers 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > G typos...
>> > >
>> > > send => sending
>> > > without => within
>> > >
>> > > --Bob
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Bob Somers
>> > wrote:
>> > > > There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
>> > > > your own improvements. Just be civil about it.
>> > > >
>> > > > I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
>> > > > suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
>> > > > people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like
>> "here's
>> > > > why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
>> > > > fix".
>> > > >
>> > > > Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
>> > > > least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list,
>> not
>> > > > a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.
>> > > >
>> > > > *steps off soap box*
>> > > >
>> > > > --Bob
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas<
>> giaym.m...@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > >> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
>> > > >> ___
>> > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>> archives,
>> > > please visit:
>> > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> > > >>
>> > > >>
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > ___
>> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> > > please visit:
>> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ~Ryan ( skidz )
>> > ___
>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> > please visit:
>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Programmer for Resistance and Liberation
>> www.resistanceandliberation.com
>> Programmer for Red Tribe
>> www.redtribe.com
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Matt Hoffman]

They seem to break stuff fixing other things.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Jonathan Murphy
wrote:

> I certainly couldn't complain, where I work we make our level environments
> entirely in 3DSMAX... :(
>
> I imagine that if Valve is like most developers then they are quite adept
> enough at using their own tools that they don't see a huge need to "revamp"
> things into the more agile form that today's engines tool chains are moving
> towards. Sure there might be some benefit there but they seem to quite
> suffice as the quality of Valves games attest to. If it ain't broke, why
> fix
> it?
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Ryan Sheffer  wrote:
>
> > I remember some guy was developing an alternative to Hammer. I don't know
> > what happened with that but it looked promising.
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Bob Somers 
> wrote:
> >
> > > G typos...
> > >
> > > send => sending
> > > without => within
> > >
> > > --Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Bob Somers
> > wrote:
> > > > There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
> > > > your own improvements. Just be civil about it.
> > > >
> > > > I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
> > > > suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
> > > > people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like
> "here's
> > > > why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
> > > > fix".
> > > >
> > > > Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
> > > > least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list,
> not
> > > > a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.
> > > >
> > > > *steps off soap box*
> > > >
> > > > --Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas<
> giaym.m...@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
> > > >> ___
> > > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ~Ryan ( skidz )
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Programmer for Resistance and Liberation
> www.resistanceandliberation.com
> Programmer for Red Tribe
> www.redtribe.com
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jonathan Murphy]

I certainly couldn't complain, where I work we make our level environments
entirely in 3DSMAX... :(

I imagine that if Valve is like most developers then they are quite adept
enough at using their own tools that they don't see a huge need to "revamp"
things into the more agile form that today's engines tool chains are moving
towards. Sure there might be some benefit there but they seem to quite
suffice as the quality of Valves games attest to. If it ain't broke, why fix
it?


On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 1:10 PM, Ryan Sheffer  wrote:

> I remember some guy was developing an alternative to Hammer. I don't know
> what happened with that but it looked promising.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Bob Somers  wrote:
>
> > G typos...
> >
> > send => sending
> > without => within
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Bob Somers
> wrote:
> > > There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
> > > your own improvements. Just be civil about it.
> > >
> > > I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
> > > suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
> > > people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like "here's
> > > why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
> > > fix".
> > >
> > > Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
> > > least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list, not
> > > a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.
> > >
> > > *steps off soap box*
> > >
> > > --Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas
> > wrote:
> > >> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
> > >> ___
> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ~Ryan ( skidz )
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>


-- 
Programmer for Resistance and Liberation
www.resistanceandliberation.com
Programmer for Red Tribe
www.redtribe.com
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Ryan Sheffer]

I remember some guy was developing an alternative to Hammer. I don't know
what happened with that but it looked promising.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:55 PM, Bob Somers  wrote:

> G typos...
>
> send => sending
> without => within
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Bob Somers wrote:
> > There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
> > your own improvements. Just be civil about it.
> >
> > I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
> > suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
> > people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like "here's
> > why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
> > fix".
> >
> > Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
> > least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list, not
> > a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.
> >
> > *steps off soap box*
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas
> wrote:
> >> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>


-- 
~Ryan ( skidz )
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Bob Somers]

G typos...

send => sending
without => within

--Bob



On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Bob Somers wrote:
> There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
> your own improvements. Just be civil about it.
>
> I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
> suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
> people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like "here's
> why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
> fix".
>
> Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
> least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list, not
> a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.
>
> *steps off soap box*
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas wrote:
>> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Bob Somers]

There's nothing wrong with improvement, offering suggestions, or send
your own improvements. Just be civil about it.

I just get really tired of one guy making a perfectly civil
suggestion, and then without hours my email box gets flooded with
people tossing in their 2 cents and bitching about things like "here's
why the engine sucks" or "here's a laundry list of stuff they need to
fix".

Geez, if you hate it that much go mod on a different platform. Or at
least keep your bitching off the list. This is a Q&A mailing list, not
a feel-good Modders Anonymous support group.

*steps off soap box*

--Bob



On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:59 PM, Giancarlo Rivas wrote:
> The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Giancarlo Rivas]

The solution is that valve hires Jed as Tools programmer.
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Joel R.]

This type of argument always leads to this, one side says it should be
better, one side says be happy for what you've got.

We are definitely happy, but what is wrong with improvement?  Improvement =
awesome = more money.  The source engine just turned 5 years old, it is not
getting any younger, churning out games is getting slower, and other engines
make game building much quicker.  Anyway you look at it, there is only
something positive that comes out of improvement.



On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 7:49 PM, Paul Peloski  wrote:

> Maybe they do remember that, and think, "if Counter-Strike and Team
> Fortress
> were made with our SDK, we must be doing a pretty good job."
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Saul Rennison  >wrote:
>
> > Maybe Valve should then remember they wouldn't have Team Fortress and
> > Counter-Strike without mods.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Saul.
> >
> > On 24 Jul 2009, at 01:28, Bob Somers  wrote:
> >
> > > With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
> > > ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
> > > business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
> > > shows how well they do it.
> > >
> > > Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
> > > not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
> > > Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
> > > but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
> > > "too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.
> > >
> > > I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
> > > there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
> > > scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
> > > anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
> > > GUI (at least, not very easily at all).
> > >
> > > --Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul
> > > Rennison wrote:
> > >> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
> > >> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But
> > >> GCF
> > >> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
> > >>
> > >> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
> > >> heres my 2 pence:
> > >> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
> > >> Source should move to DAE.
> > >> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
> > >> only need the code / snippets from it.
> > >>
> > >> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> -Saul.
> > >>
> > >> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
> > >>> plugins I think it would work great.
> > >>>
> > >>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
> >  Because...
> > 
> >  Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
> >  hard to
> >  understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
> > 
> >  Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
> >  the GCFS
> >  quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
> >  solution there.
> >  Displacements could also be an issue.
> > 
> >  I'd imagine it's possible.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
> >  harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> > > 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> > > 3. Studios pay for license
> > > 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> > > 5. ?
> > > 6. Profit!
> > >
> > > But seriously, it can be done.
> > >
> > > And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work
> > > on an
> > > opensource version with python support for plugins.
> > >
> > > 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> > >> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
> > >> forget
> > > that
> > >> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it
> > >> doesn't
> > > scale
> > >> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large
> > >> areas.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> > >> ___
> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > >> archives,
> > > please visit:
> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > 

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Kohan Venets]

Agreed, though you must keep in mind there are other ways for them to acquire 
excellent developers; Portal was just some kids hired out of DigiPen who made a 
simple game similar to Portal and Valve said "Hey you guys are cool, make us 
millions with it."

-Kohan



> From: saul.renni...@gmail.com
> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 01:39:47 +0100
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> 
> Maybe Valve should then remember they wouldn't have Team Fortress and  
> Counter-Strike without mods.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Saul.
> 
> On 24 Jul 2009, at 01:28, Bob Somers  wrote:
> 
> > With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
> > ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
> > business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
> > shows how well they do it.
> >
> > Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
> > not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
> > Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
> > but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
> > "too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.
> >
> > I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
> > there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
> > scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
> > anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
> > GUI (at least, not very easily at all).
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul  
> > Rennison wrote:
> >> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
> >> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But  
> >> GCF
> >> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
> >>
> >> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
> >> heres my 2 pence:
> >> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
> >> Source should move to DAE.
> >> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
> >> only need the code / snippets from it.
> >>
> >> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Saul.
> >>
> >> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
> >>> plugins I think it would work great.
> >>>
> >>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
> >>>
> >>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
> >>>> Because...
> >>>>
> >>>> Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
> >>>> hard to
> >>>> understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
> >>>>
> >>>> Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
> >>>> the GCFS
> >>>> quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
> >>>> solution there.
> >>>> Displacements could also be an issue.
> >>>>
> >>>> I'd imagine it's possible.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
> >>>> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> >>>>> 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> >>>>> 3. Studios pay for license
> >>>>> 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> >>>>> 5. ?
> >>>>> 6. Profit!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But seriously, it can be done.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work  
> >>>>> on an
> >>>>> opensource version with python support for plugins.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> >>>>>> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
> >>>>>> forget
> >>>>> that
> >>>>>> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Ob

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Zach Kanzler]

If a soup kitchen was giving you spoiled soup, would you take it? Being that
I'm a paying customer of Valve, in that I bought access to the SDK, I'm not
a beggar, so I will be a chooser.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 20:49, Paul Peloski  wrote:

> Maybe they do remember that, and think, "if Counter-Strike and Team
> Fortress
> were made with our SDK, we must be doing a pretty good job."
>
> Paul
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Saul Rennison  >wrote:
>
> > Maybe Valve should then remember they wouldn't have Team Fortress and
> > Counter-Strike without mods.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Saul.
> >
> > On 24 Jul 2009, at 01:28, Bob Somers  wrote:
> >
> > > With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
> > > ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
> > > business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
> > > shows how well they do it.
> > >
> > > Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
> > > not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
> > > Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
> > > but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
> > > "too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.
> > >
> > > I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
> > > there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
> > > scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
> > > anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
> > > GUI (at least, not very easily at all).
> > >
> > > --Bob
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul
> > > Rennison wrote:
> > >> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
> > >> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But
> > >> GCF
> > >> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
> > >>
> > >> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
> > >> heres my 2 pence:
> > >> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
> > >> Source should move to DAE.
> > >> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
> > >> only need the code / snippets from it.
> > >>
> > >> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
> > >>
> > >> Thanks,
> > >> -Saul.
> > >>
> > >> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
> > >>  wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
> > >>> plugins I think it would work great.
> > >>>
> > >>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
> > >>>
> > >>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
> >  Because...
> > 
> >  Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
> >  hard to
> >  understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
> > 
> >  Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
> >  the GCFS
> >  quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
> >  solution there.
> >  Displacements could also be an issue.
> > 
> >  I'd imagine it's possible.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
> >  harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> > > 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> > > 3. Studios pay for license
> > > 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> > > 5. ?
> > > 6. Profit!
> > >
> > > But seriously, it can be done.
> > >
> > > And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work
> > > on an
> > > opensource version with python support for plugins.
> > >
> > > 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> > >> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
> > >> forget
> > > that
> > >> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it
> > >> doesn't
> > > scale
> > >> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large
> > >> areas.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> > >> ___
> > >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > >> archives,
> > > please visit:
> > >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > > archives,
> > > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > >
> >  ___
> >  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >  archives, please visit:
> >  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > 
> > 
> > >>>
> > >>> __

Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Paul Peloski]

Maybe they do remember that, and think, "if Counter-Strike and Team Fortress
were made with our SDK, we must be doing a pretty good job."

Paul

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:39 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:

> Maybe Valve should then remember they wouldn't have Team Fortress and
> Counter-Strike without mods.
>
> Thanks,
> -Saul.
>
> On 24 Jul 2009, at 01:28, Bob Somers  wrote:
>
> > With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
> > ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
> > business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
> > shows how well they do it.
> >
> > Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
> > not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
> > Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
> > but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
> > "too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.
> >
> > I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
> > there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
> > scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
> > anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
> > GUI (at least, not very easily at all).
> >
> > --Bob
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul
> > Rennison wrote:
> >> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
> >> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But
> >> GCF
> >> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
> >>
> >> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
> >> heres my 2 pence:
> >> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
> >> Source should move to DAE.
> >> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
> >> only need the code / snippets from it.
> >>
> >> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> -Saul.
> >>
> >> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
> >>  wrote:
> >>
> >>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
> >>> plugins I think it would work great.
> >>>
> >>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
> >>>
> >>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
>  Because...
> 
>  Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
>  hard to
>  understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
> 
>  Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
>  the GCFS
>  quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
>  solution there.
>  Displacements could also be an issue.
> 
>  I'd imagine it's possible.
> 
> 
> 
>  On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
>  harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 
> > 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> > 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> > 3. Studios pay for license
> > 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> > 5. ?
> > 6. Profit!
> >
> > But seriously, it can be done.
> >
> > And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work
> > on an
> > opensource version with python support for plugins.
> >
> > 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> >> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
> >> forget
> > that
> >> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it
> >> doesn't
> > scale
> >> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large
> >> areas.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> >> ___
> >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >> archives,
> > please visit:
> >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> > archives,
> > please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>  ___
>  To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>  archives, please visit:
>  http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> 
> 
> >>>
> >>> ___
> >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> >>> archives, please visit:
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> >>>
> >>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

Maybe Valve should then remember they wouldn't have Team Fortress and  
Counter-Strike without mods.

Thanks,
-Saul.

On 24 Jul 2009, at 01:28, Bob Somers  wrote:

> With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
> ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
> business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
> shows how well they do it.
>
> Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
> not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
> Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
> but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
> "too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.
>
> I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
> there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
> scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
> anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
> GUI (at least, not very easily at all).
>
> --Bob
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul  
> Rennison wrote:
>> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
>> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But  
>> GCF
>> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
>>
>> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
>> heres my 2 pence:
>> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
>> Source should move to DAE.
>> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
>> only need the code / snippets from it.
>>
>> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Saul.
>>
>> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
>>  wrote:
>>
>>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
>>> plugins I think it would work great.
>>>
>>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
>>>
>>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
 Because...

 Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
 hard to
 understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.

 Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
 the GCFS
 quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
 solution there.
 Displacements could also be an issue.

 I'd imagine it's possible.



 On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
 harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> 3. Studios pay for license
> 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> 5. ?
> 6. Profit!
>
> But seriously, it can be done.
>
> And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work  
> on an
> opensource version with python support for plugins.
>
> 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
>> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
>> forget
> that
>> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it
>> doesn't
> scale
>> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large
>> areas.
>>
>> --
>> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>> archives,
> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
> ___
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> archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives, please visit:
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>>>
>>> ___
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>>> archives, please visit:
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>>>
>>
>> ___
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>> archives, please visit:
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Bob Somers]

With all due respect to you guys, I think you're forgetting that
ultimately Valve is not in the mod-support business. They're in the
business of making their own games, and the success of their titles
shows how well they do it.

Their tools are designed for the way the workflow happens at Valve,
not at your house. They're providing their tools to you as a courtesy.
Now, if they want to take suggestions from the community that's great,
but ultimately you're getting all their tools for free so it's really
"too bad" if they don't work they way you want them to.

I'm not well versed in the model compilation process for Source, but
there's one thing a command line interface has over a GUI...
scriptability. In a big software company, the rule of thumb is that
anything that can be automated should be automated. You can't script a
GUI (at least, not very easily at all).

--Bob




On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Saul Rennison wrote:
> Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does
> mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But GCF
> support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.
>
> All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,
> heres my 2 pence:
> I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
> Source should move to DAE.
> StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we
> only need the code / snippets from it.
>
> There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.
>
> Thanks,
> -Saul.
>
> On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery
>  wrote:
>
>> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
>> plugins I think it would work great.
>>
>> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
>>
>> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
>>> Because...
>>>
>>> Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly
>>> hard to
>>> understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
>>>
>>> Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from
>>> the GCFS
>>> quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a
>>> solution there.
>>> Displacements could also be an issue.
>>>
>>> I'd imagine it's possible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
>>> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>>
 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
 3. Studios pay for license
 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
 5. ?
 6. Profit!

 But seriously, it can be done.

 And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
 opensource version with python support for plugins.

 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people
> forget
 that
> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it
> doesn't
 scale
> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large
> areas.
>
> --
> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
> archives,
 please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>

 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
 archives,
 please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>>> archives, please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list
>> archives, please visit:
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>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Saul Rennison]

Hell I'm on Summer Holidays, I'll give this a go, although it does  
mean I'd have to do texture support which I'm not so great at. But GCF  
support is possible via Nemesis' HLlib.

All replies in this topic bring up good points in the Source Engine,  
heres my 2 pence:
I don't agree with the fact Source doesn't have good physics.
Source should move to DAE.
StudioMDL and HLMV should be open-source, leave P4 integration in, we  
only need the code / snippets from it.

There's probably more but I can't be bothered replying.

Thanks,
-Saul.

On 24 Jul 2009, at 00:17, Harry Jeffery  
 wrote:

> If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
> plugins I think it would work great.
>
> Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.
>
> 2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
>> Because...
>>
>> Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly  
>> hard to
>> understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
>>
>> Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from  
>> the GCFS
>> quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a  
>> solution there.
>> Displacements could also be an issue.
>>
>> I'd imagine it's possible.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
>> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
>>> 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
>>> 3. Studios pay for license
>>> 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
>>> 5. ?
>>> 6. Profit!
>>>
>>> But seriously, it can be done.
>>>
>>> And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
>>> opensource version with python support for plugins.
>>>
>>> 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
 Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people  
 forget
>>> that
 half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it  
 doesn't
>>> scale
 up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large  
 areas.

 --
 Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
 ___
 To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list  
 archives,
>>> please visit:
 http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders


>>>
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list  
>>> archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list  
>> archives, please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Alexander Hirsch]

I think you can use Sources/Valves filesystem for loading stuff in GCF/VPKs,
it's in a stand-alone dll.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 6:12 PM, Matt Hoffman
wrote:

> Because...
>
> Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly hard to
> understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
>
> Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from the GCFS
> quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a solution there.
> Displacements could also be an issue.
>
> I'd imagine it's possible.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> > 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> > 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> > 3. Studios pay for license
> > 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> > 5. ?
> > 6. Profit!
> >
> > But seriously, it can be done.
> >
> > And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
> > opensource version with python support for plugins.
> >
> > 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> > > Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people forget
> > that
> > > half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it doesn't
> > scale
> > > up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large areas.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> > > ___
> > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> > please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
> ___
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

If it's all made nice and modular and supports either dll or python
plugins I think it would work great.

Nothing there that should be too hard to re-implement.

2009/7/24 Matt Hoffman :
> Because...
>
> Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly hard to
> understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.
>
> Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from the GCFS
> quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a solution there.
> Displacements could also be an issue.
>
> I'd imagine it's possible.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
> harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
>> 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
>> 3. Studios pay for license
>> 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
>> 5. ?
>> 6. Profit!
>>
>> But seriously, it can be done.
>>
>> And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
>> opensource version with python support for plugins.
>>
>> 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
>> > Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people forget
>> that
>> > half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it doesn't
>> scale
>> > up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large areas.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
>> > ___
>> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>> >
>> >
>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Matt Hoffman]

Because...

Hell that's a good point. The VMF document format isn't exactly hard to
understand. The compile tools are all plugged-in.

Only thing you would have issues with (I'd Imagine): Loading from the GCFS
quickly, and efficiently. Though I imagine Jed would have a solution there.
Displacements could also be an issue.

I'd imagine it's possible.



On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 4:06 PM, Harry Jeffery <
harry101jeff...@googlemail.com> wrote:

> 1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
> 2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
> 3. Studios pay for license
> 4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
> 5. ?
> 6. Profit!
>
> But seriously, it can be done.
>
> And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
> opensource version with python support for plugins.
>
> 2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> > Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people forget
> that
> > half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it doesn't
> scale
> > up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large areas.
> >
> > --
> > Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
> >
>
> ___
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> please visit:
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>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Harry Jeffery]

1. Update SDK and make it uber leet as per suggestions.
2. Distribute SDK (not on valvetime please)
3. Studios pay for license
4. More mods become commercially viable (e.g. GMod)
5. ?
6. Profit!

But seriously, it can be done.

And if hammer is so bad why has the community not started work on an
opensource version with python support for plugins.

2009/7/23 Jorge Rodriguez :
> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people forget that
> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it doesn't scale
> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large areas.
>
> --
> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Ben Mears]

In Eternal Silence there are vast outdoor, outer space environments that
take a while to travel across. And its all in the Source engine.

man I love that mod.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Jorge Rodriguez  wrote:

> Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people forget
> that
> half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it doesn't
> scale
> up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large areas.
>
> --
> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jorge Rodriguez]

Source engine works just fine for outdoors areas. Did you people forget that
half of HL2 and the episodes take place outdoors? Obviously it doesn't scale
up to GTA-size large areas, but it can handle some pretty large areas.

-- 
Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Adam Donovan]

ok so I will say this again..I know there are other engines..but I care
about this one..so there is no point of telling me which other large outdoor
engines there are..i know that..i use them too and they just make me more
aware of the state of the tool set we have. I have used  source for
years..its because I am a fanboy of the engine that I say such things..I
mean you only have to listen to Jed to get an idea of the problems...and as
for third party api's not being able to redistibute..well other games do it
so I dont see why it cant be sorted out for us.  And Jorge im not whining..I
have nothing to whin about..I acutally get to work with programmers as a
tech artist making tool sets for everyone..so I know its alot of work and im
not taking for granted that it would also be alot of work for valve..but
thats no excuse at all. Everything that Jed has said so far is pretty much
spot on..

nava
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Ben Mears]

 Agreed - "I think that despite the limitations, the engine is fantastic and
can be made to do a lot of
stuff, just look at GMod." As well as other great mods that are outside of
Valve's normal game type. For example, Eternal Silence is a Source engine
mod that contains outer space flying and dogfighting! I haven't really used
any of the other engines but would it be possible to create a flying game in
a different engine that is meant for FPS?

Disagreed - "Or, pay for an engine license. Or, wait for whatever Valve is
cooking up in their pipeline next for future versions of Source." Isn't a
license like 300,000$ or something? What individual can afford that? And I
don't think waiting for Valve is really ever a good solution.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Jorge Rodriguez  wrote:

> Valve's engine and toolset are perfect for what Valve does with it, and
> Valve has a lot of tools that they don't distribute to the community that
> make what they do easier. The limitations that exist are only because the
> engine is focused for doing one thing and doing it well, that being the
> kind
> of thing that Valve does with their games. Personally I think that despite
> the limitations, the engine is fantastic and can be made to do a lot of
> stuff, just look at GMod. It's a bit rough using a command line model
> compiler and SMD and whatnot, but nobody's holding your hand, you're free
> to
> use another toolset if you don't like what Valve has offered. Or, pay for
> an
> engine license. Or, wait for whatever Valve is cooking up in their pipeline
> next for future versions of Source.
>
> So quit whining!
>
> --
> Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
> ___
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Tobias Kammersgaard]

I *think* the reason why Valve still uses command line tools is the fact
that you can easily integrate it into the Windows context menus.I was
working on a decompiler, but simply stopped my work on it, due to the SMD
format, which is quite lame to work with.

Oh, and reloading materials ingame IS possible. Check out

mat_reloadallmaterials - reload all materials
mat_reloadmaterial - reloads specified material
mat_reloadtexture - reload all textures

/ScarT
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jorge Rodriguez]

Valve's engine and toolset are perfect for what Valve does with it, and
Valve has a lot of tools that they don't distribute to the community that
make what they do easier. The limitations that exist are only because the
engine is focused for doing one thing and doing it well, that being the kind
of thing that Valve does with their games. Personally I think that despite
the limitations, the engine is fantastic and can be made to do a lot of
stuff, just look at GMod. It's a bit rough using a command line model
compiler and SMD and whatnot, but nobody's holding your hand, you're free to
use another toolset if you don't like what Valve has offered. Or, pay for an
engine license. Or, wait for whatever Valve is cooking up in their pipeline
next for future versions of Source.

So quit whining!

-- 
Jorge "Vino" Rodriguez
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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jed]

And I apologise for my spelling mistakes. I'm stuck in a hotel on the
other side of the world on a netbook with a keyboard too small for my
fingers :)

2009/7/24 Jed :
> I think Source works well for the room and corridor kind of engine but
> if you want anything more "outdoors" you need to look at another
> engine really.
>
> Of course, I often find myself sitting on the fence - I *am* a Valve
> fanboy at heart but some stuff just makes me groan.
>
> The one thing I don't like is that since Source a lot of stock "tools"
> have been locked down - source not released citing "license" issues,
> etc. Case in point - I hear the source to StudioMDL can't be released
> due to the Perforce integration code. I would rather see the StudioMDL
> code *minus* the Perforce libs/C++ bits because the rest in itself is
> USEFUL to use as tool developers.
>
> Likewise HLMV - it's based on HLMV 1.22 and uses the most ancient GUI
> API on the planet. Release us the source/API to the 3D window
> rendered! I did actually start making a JHLMV for Source back when HL2
> came out but the fact that Valve update HLMV which broke it, and then
> took forever to update/remove the source from the SDK killed that
> project.
>
> I'm sorry but I just *do not get* the Valve toolset. It may work well
> for you guys to have some hacky-held-together-with-duct-tape tools in
> house but if your selling an engine license I can't believe your
> crappy toolset is actually helping you sell engine licenses. I've lost
> count of how many Source engine licensee's have asked me (in respect
> of my software license) for permission to use my tools for their game
> production.
>
> Seriously Valve - get serious about your tool set. Great engine, but
> it feels like your content creation pipeline tools are from the
> stoneage. As yourself this - why do people like myself and Nem make
> the tools you do? Maybe it's because your own are so deficient... and
> I *know* your using some of my stuff in-house.
>
> - Jed
>
>
>
>
> 2009/7/23 Matt Hoffman :
 If I can write a bloody GUI to StudioMDL, why can't Valve?
>>
>> Because you already wrote it. Why would they need to duplicate your work?
>> Why pay paid developers to do something the modding community does for free?
>> ;)
>>
>> I do wish Hammer was open-source, or atleast had a plugin-system (Maybe
>> written in Lua or C++ or such), so that even if Valve didn't take the time
>> to make their tools more user-friendly, the users could.
>>
>> What Source lacks in high-end graphics, and ultra precise physics and so on,
>> I do think that they make up for it in Gameplay. You still see huge gaming
>> communities playing CSS, CS, DOD:S, TF2, L4D, etc. These games are years
>> old, yet people still play them daily.
>>
>> And yeah, content creation is way too much of a fight. Un-descriptive
>> errors, illogical errors, etc. While the CLI doesn't bother me, having
>> learned to use it, I could see how it could be an issue for a new user.
>> (Keep in mind I'm only 16) And alot of the stuff isn't documented which irks
>> me. Also not having the model sources for more complex things really annoys
>> me, because it's left the modders to try and figure it out on their own.
>> Things like MDLDecompiler aren't a terrible help with the new stuff because
>> it isn't even put into the qcs or models, so we have NO clue if some of the
>> commands even exist.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Adam Donovan wrote:
>>
>>> I agree that gameplay options are great in hammer..its more some of the
>>> oldschool stuff in hammer that could use an update..as for the spelling
>>> comments I dont care Im employed as an artist not a public relations
>>> officer
>>> ot spelling bee judge.
>>> nava
>>> ___
>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>>> please visit:
>>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>>
>>>
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, 
>> please visit:
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>>
>>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Jed]

I think Source works well for the room and corridor kind of engine but
if you want anything more "outdoors" you need to look at another
engine really.

Of course, I often find myself sitting on the fence - I *am* a Valve
fanboy at heart but some stuff just makes me groan.

The one thing I don't like is that since Source a lot of stock "tools"
have been locked down - source not released citing "license" issues,
etc. Case in point - I hear the source to StudioMDL can't be released
due to the Perforce integration code. I would rather see the StudioMDL
code *minus* the Perforce libs/C++ bits because the rest in itself is
USEFUL to use as tool developers.

Likewise HLMV - it's based on HLMV 1.22 and uses the most ancient GUI
API on the planet. Release us the source/API to the 3D window
rendered! I did actually start making a JHLMV for Source back when HL2
came out but the fact that Valve update HLMV which broke it, and then
took forever to update/remove the source from the SDK killed that
project.

I'm sorry but I just *do not get* the Valve toolset. It may work well
for you guys to have some hacky-held-together-with-duct-tape tools in
house but if your selling an engine license I can't believe your
crappy toolset is actually helping you sell engine licenses. I've lost
count of how many Source engine licensee's have asked me (in respect
of my software license) for permission to use my tools for their game
production.

Seriously Valve - get serious about your tool set. Great engine, but
it feels like your content creation pipeline tools are from the
stoneage. As yourself this - why do people like myself and Nem make
the tools you do? Maybe it's because your own are so deficient... and
I *know* your using some of my stuff in-house.

- Jed




2009/7/23 Matt Hoffman :
>>> If I can write a bloody GUI to StudioMDL, why can't Valve?
>
> Because you already wrote it. Why would they need to duplicate your work?
> Why pay paid developers to do something the modding community does for free?
> ;)
>
> I do wish Hammer was open-source, or atleast had a plugin-system (Maybe
> written in Lua or C++ or such), so that even if Valve didn't take the time
> to make their tools more user-friendly, the users could.
>
> What Source lacks in high-end graphics, and ultra precise physics and so on,
> I do think that they make up for it in Gameplay. You still see huge gaming
> communities playing CSS, CS, DOD:S, TF2, L4D, etc. These games are years
> old, yet people still play them daily.
>
> And yeah, content creation is way too much of a fight. Un-descriptive
> errors, illogical errors, etc. While the CLI doesn't bother me, having
> learned to use it, I could see how it could be an issue for a new user.
> (Keep in mind I'm only 16) And alot of the stuff isn't documented which irks
> me. Also not having the model sources for more complex things really annoys
> me, because it's left the modders to try and figure it out on their own.
> Things like MDLDecompiler aren't a terrible help with the new stuff because
> it isn't even put into the qcs or models, so we have NO clue if some of the
> commands even exist.
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2009 at 2:45 PM, Adam Donovan wrote:
>
>> I agree that gameplay options are great in hammer..its more some of the
>> oldschool stuff in hammer that could use an update..as for the spelling
>> comments I dont care Im employed as an artist not a public relations
>> officer
>> ot spelling bee judge.
>> nava
>> ___
>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
>> please visit:
>> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>>
>>
> ___
> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please 
> visit:
> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
>
>

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Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine

[Adam Donovan]

.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> On Mon, Jul 6, 2009 at 12:19 AM, Justin Krenz 
> > wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> > I just discovered the source of a memory leak in my mod,
> > Smashball.
> > > >> > It appears that if you call EmitSound using an MP3 sound file,
> > memory
> > > >> > is allocated and never returned.  Specifically,
> > > >> > "enginesound->EmitSound(...)" (
> > /game/shared/SoundEmitterSystem.cpp
> > > >> > line 460 ) is the function that allocates the memory.  Thus, if
> > you
> > > >> > play an MP3 over and over, it will eventually cause HL2 to run
> > out of
> > > >> > memory.  When playing a wave file, no memory is allocated via
> > > >> > EmitSound.
> > > >> >
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200
> From: Adam Donovan 
> Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
> Message-ID:
><61584190907231351w57945d08u7d1ae81a0575...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it has not
> been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to use
> to
> create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer game
> developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment
> design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod
> alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a game
> developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and
> content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the engine
> woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people like me
> some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more
> modern..Id
> expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are other
> engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being
> said..i
> kinda care about seeing progress.
> greetz
> nava
>
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 14:09:40 -0700
> From: Kohan Venets 
> Subject: Re: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> To: hlcoders 
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>
> I'm not claiming to agree or disagree, but I'd like to mention that using
> proper spelling and grammar would help people take you seriously.  "Iam"
> "disapointed" "beleive" "displacment" "isnt" "alogothim" "differnt"
> "fundemenal" "woulod" "jsut" "Id" "dont".
>
> It's just difficult to believe that you have a job as a game developer when
> you type that way.
>
> -Kohan
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:51:26 +0200
> > From: adamjjdono...@gmail.com
> > To: hlcoders@list.valvesoftware.com
> > Subject: [hlcoders] whats happening with this engine
> >
> > After being on this list for years Iam slightly disapointed that it has
> not
> > been taken further..mainly Iam talking about the tools artists get to use
> to
> > create the worlds and actually cant beleive that a modern computer game
> > developer still works with it as its rather limited in environment
> > design..take for example the displacment system..there isnt even lod
> > alogothim for it which makes it so limited..seeing as I work for a game
> > developer and know that its not easy to manage differnt projects and
> > content..I still think some rethinking of fundemenal aspects of the
> engine
> > woulod be a great idea about now..perhaps even jsut to give people like
> me
> > some hope that the engine will slowly migrate into something more
> modern..Id
> > expect some flaming and spam to follow this post like how their are other
> > engines to use and that i dont have to use source engine..that being
> said..i
> > kinda care about seeing progress.
> > greetz
> > nava
> > ___
> > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
> please visit:
> > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlcoders
> >
>
> _
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> Message: 4
> Da