Re: organizing orchestral music

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 25 Jun 2015 at 11:37 Marc Hohl m...@hohlart.de wrote:

 Am 25.06.2015 um 12:00 schrieb Orm Finnendahl:
 [...]
  violin-music.ly (containing the music only)

 To make life easier, I'd use violin-music.ily to make clear
 that this is an _included_ file, not a standalone compilable one.

  violin.ly (containing the part layout and including violin-music.ly)
  score.ly (containing the score layout and including violin-music.ly)
 
  IMHO the extra file is well worth the gained clarity and flexibility
  for fine-tuning score and part layout. In addition I keep layout files
  and files containing the music in different directories.

 +1


I do something similar. This also illustrates the use of \transposition and
\transpose to get correct pitch playback...

Chris


PieceNameMusic.ly : containing ALL the music like:

SopranoCornetMusic = {
 \transpose ef c
{
\relative c'{
  c'2.\p (c4 %1
 c1) %2
 r4 c\ (d e%3
 f2\! f2 %4
 f2\ e2\!) %5
}

-

PieceNameVoices.ly : define all the voices:

SopranoCornetVoice = \new Voice {
 \clef treble
  \key c \major
  \transposition ef'
  \set Staff.midiInstrument = #trumpet
  \dynamicsOnOneLine
  \time 4/4
  \transpose c bf,{
  \SopranoCornetMusic
  }
} %

SoloCornetVoice = \new Voice {
  \transposition bf
  \set Staff.midiInstrument = #trumpet
  \dynamicsOnOneLine
  \clef treble
  \key f \major
  \transpose c bf,{
  \SoloCornetMusic
  }
} %

--
PieceName.ly : Master file, like

\include english.ly
\include PieceNameMusic.ly
\include PieceNameVoices.ly

global = {
  ... stuff ...
}

\paper { ... }
\header { ... }

music =
{
 
  \new StaffGroup 
\tag #'score \tag #'sop  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #Soprano
Cornet
shortInstrumentName = #Eb Cn }  \global \Marks
\SopranoCornetVoice 
\tag #'score \tag #'solc \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #Solo
cornet
   shortInstrumentName = #S Cn } \global
\Marks  \SoloCornetVoice 

etc.
}



PieceNameInstrumentName.ly : individual part(s):

\include PieceName.ly

#(set-global-staff-size 20)
\header{ instrument = Solo cornet }

\score {
 \keepWithTag #'solc \music
  \layout {
 \context
{
  \Score
  \override SpacingSpanner.base-shortest-duration = #(ly:make-moment
1/16)
}
\context
{
  \Staff
  \remove Instrument_name_engraver
}
  }
  \midi { }
}




PieceNameScore.ly:

\include PieceName.ly

#(set-default-paper-size a4landscape)
#(set-global-staff-size 14)
\score {
 \keepWithTag #'score \music
  \layout {
  indent = 2.0\cm
  short-indent = 1\cm
}
  \midi { }
}
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Re: volta repeat with and without alternative ending

[Chris Yate]

On 25 June 2015 at 09:47, Flaming Hakama by Elaine ela...@flaminghakama.com
 wrote:


  Conductor will say bar number.
 Nope. From my experience I would say she says everytime something
 different:
 - from 3 measures before rehearsal mark B
 - from the lyric measure
 - second repeat, please
 - proabaly from a specific bar number
 Regards
 Helge



 Your imaginary rule that says that multiple endings must contain
 different content is what is silly, and in the end, causes confusion and is
 therefore very inconsiderate.


Yes, I completely agree, but I don't much like the tone of this thread.
Never mind whether it's a Good Idea, have we covered the question of *how*
to do it?

There are situations where you might well want one part to be repeated in
volta and not another. Perhaps a very long repeat where one part has
markedly different material to the rest of the ensemble.

The resulting confusion can be mitigated by things like doubling up the bar
numbering or even the rehearsal marks.

Chris


P.S. I often see Percent repeats misused where the notes may be the same
between two bars but the *musical* content is different. That's confusing
in the same way.
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Re: transposable figured bass?

[Chris Yate]

On 29 June 2015 at 14:20, Stefan Thomas kontrapunktste...@gmail.com wrote:

 Dear community,
 I run in a problem, when I transpose the below quoted figured bass from g
 to f.
 In this  special case the natural sign before the 5 in the 2nd chord
 should be a flat sign. Is it possible to get a transposable version of this
 figured bass?

 Here is my example:

 \version 2.18.2
 global= { \key g \major \time 4/4 }
 Music = \relative g { \clef bass \global  g1 b, c d  g, \bar|.  }
 fgbass = \figuremode { s1
 6 5! % here's the problem, it must be a flat sign in f major
 s
 6 42 5 3
 }


 \markup{A figured bass in g major:}
 \score {
   
 \new Staff \Music
 \new FiguredBass {\global \fgbass }
   
 }

 Music = \transpose g f \Music
 \markup{The same thing in f major:}
 \score {
   
 \new Staff \Music
 \new FiguredBass{ \transpose g f { \global \fgbass } }
   
 }


This is an interesting problem and I suspect it would need some coding
(Scheme?). As you probably know, docuentation says:

Although the support for figured bass may superficially resemble chord
support, it is much simpler. \figuremode mode simply stores the figures and
the FiguredBass context prints them as entered. There is no conversion to
pitches.

I wonder whether you or someone could write a new engraver for chords
FiguredChordsEngraver so you would enter them as per
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/guitar
and see figured bass output...

Chris
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Re: [OT] Bizet op.2

[Chris Yate]

It's in the BnF, according to their catalogue:

http://catalogue.bnf.fr/servlet/biblio?idNoeud=1ID=39593555SN1=0SN2=0host=catalogue

(The Edition Mario Bois from 1984)

via
http://www.worldcat.org/title/oeuvres-pour-le-piano-les-inedits-et-3-pieces-du-magasin-des-familles/oclc/658660988?ht=editionreferer=di



On 4 July 2015 at 11:46, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote:

 How about the contact link on that page?

 Am 4. Juli 2015 12:20:57 MESZ, schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider 
 pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com:

 Hi LilyPonder's,

 I'm looking for Bizet op.2 :
 http://digital.wustl.edu/bizet/works/4_Preludes.html
 especially the second prelude.
 I have no clue where to find it, even none at the BnF.
 Thanks very much in advance.

 Cheers,
 Pierre


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Re: [OT] Bizet op.2

[Chris Yate]

Pierre,
Ah, I see! You want the urtext :)
Good luck finding it...
Chris

On 5 July 2015 at 11:01, Pierre Perol-Schneider 
pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Chris,

 Yes, I know. This is actually the printed score I'll get within few days.
 What I was looking for at the BnF is the manuscript Ms-421 which supposed
 to be there, but is not.
 I can find the Ms-425 :
 http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb42766817k/PUBLIC but not the Ms-421.
 I'll check directly at the BnF next week. Working on the original
 manuscript is much more interesting.

 Cheers,
 Pierre

 2015-07-05 11:04 GMT+02:00 Chris Yate chrisy...@gmail.com:

 It's in the BnF, according to their catalogue:


 http://catalogue.bnf.fr/servlet/biblio?idNoeud=1ID=39593555SN1=0SN2=0host=catalogue

 (The Edition Mario Bois from 1984)

 via

 http://www.worldcat.org/title/oeuvres-pour-le-piano-les-inedits-et-3-pieces-du-magasin-des-familles/oclc/658660988?ht=editionreferer=di



 On 4 July 2015 at 11:46, Urs Liska u...@openlilylib.org wrote:

 How about the contact link on that page?

 Am 4. Juli 2015 12:20:57 MESZ, schrieb Pierre Perol-Schneider 
 pierre.schneider.pa...@gmail.com:

 Hi LilyPonder's,

 I'm looking for Bizet op.2 :
 http://digital.wustl.edu/bizet/works/4_Preludes.html
 especially the second prelude.
 I have no clue where to find it, even none at the BnF.
 Thanks very much in advance.

 Cheers,
 Pierre


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Re: transposable figured bass?

[Chris Yate]

On 29 June 2015 at 19:13, Thomas Morley thomasmorle...@gmail.com wrote:

 2015-06-29 18:08 GMT+02:00 Ralf Mattes r.mat...@mh-freiburg.de:
 
  Just a question - is this an example drawn from a historic source?
  What you call a flat sign would back then be called a fa-sign and
  the corresponing sharp sign would be read as a mi sign. Both voces
  are independent of transposition, so C♭ does _not_ denote a C flat
  (ces) but rather a C-fa which is exactly what is needed in your example
  in _both_ cases, so (in case this is not an original source) you might
  better write 65♭ in the first, untransposed case.
 
  HTH Ralf Mattes



 I'd like to  second that, it's what I learned decades ago, iirc ;)

 See also the attached png from BWV 121
 Sorry for the bad resolution.
 (Although the right Hand is not Bach ofcourse.)

 The score can be downloaded at

 http://imslp.org/wiki/Christum_wir_sollen_loben_schon,_BWV_121_%28Bach,_Johann_Sebastian%29

 Cheers,
   Harm


I will look at my (modern) harmony book to see what they use. I think for a
tierce de picardie chord in the key of Gm, they would use a Natural to
indicate the major third, and a Sharp to indicate the same interval in the
key of Dm.  However, that raises the important question of what an ABRSM
Theory examiner would do, if I used a flat sign to write a minor triad in a
chord where the major third is sharpened...

Another think -- in the example you give, is a natural sign only there to
correct a previous accidental on the figure? (otherwise, what else would
it mean?).

Thanks,
Chris
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Re: Partial Bars

[Chris Yate]

On 1 Jul 2015 04:56, Helge Kruse helge.kr...@gmx.net wrote:

 Hi Bill,

 Can you please include a minimal compilable example that shows your
problem? I don't plan to do both
 - goto the next shop or library to get that menut
 - guess what 'part' expresses in the context of that piece
 - write an example that could probably the same problems yours have

 Partial measures are possible in different ways, also 'in the middle'.

 Best regards
 Helge

Bill,

I have had this exact problem with typesetting Beethoven before.

One solution is to temporarily change the time signature, but remove the
time signature engraver. I'll try to find an example later (on my phone
just now).

Chris
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Re: Partial Bars

[Chris Yate]

On 1 July 2015 at 07:28, Chris Yate chrisy...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 1 Jul 2015 04:56, Helge Kruse helge.kr...@gmx.net wrote:
 
  Hi Bill,
 
  Can you please include a minimal compilable example that shows your
 problem? I don't plan to do both
  - goto the next shop or library to get that menut
  - guess what 'part' expresses in the context of that piece
  - write an example that could probably the same problems yours have
 
  Partial measures are possible in different ways, also 'in the middle'.
 
  Best regards
  Helge

 Bill,

 I have had this exact problem with typesetting Beethoven before.

 One solution is to temporarily change the time signature, but remove the
 time signature engraver. I'll try to find an example later (on my phone
 just now).

 Chris

Bill,

Here's the way I actually did it...

\version 2.18.2
\language english

\relative c {
  \compressFullBarRests
  \key ef \major
  \time 6/8
  \clef bass
  \tempo Andante
  r8 ef (g af f d)
  f (ef) g g4 (bf8)
  R2.
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 2 8)
  ef8 r \bar |. \break
  \tempo Adagio
  \time 4/4
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 5 8)
  r8^\markup{VAR. VI} r2
  \set Score.measureLength = #(ly:make-moment 4 4)
  ef,,4 f g a
  c d e f \bar |.
}
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Re: Testing requested: new manuscript viewer tool for Frescobaldi

[Chris Yate]

Sounds a good idea, I will try to test it tonight.

Thanks

On 17 July 2015 at 16:13, flup2 phili...@philmassart.net wrote:

 For the few testing I made, it's what I was looking for :-) I would like a
 larger screen to put the preview and the manuscript side by side ;-) but in
 the meantime, I'll place them one above the other

 Thanks for that feature :-)

 Philippe



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 Sent from the User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Cannot resolve rest collision: rest direction not set

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

I'm not sure what I'm meant to do to fix this... Have already used explicit
positioning for the rests but that doesn't stop the warnings.

Granted they're *only* warnings but I always prefer clean compilation.

Thanks in advance!

Chris


---

\language english

\new Score
{
  \relative c''
  {

\new CueVoice {
  \stemDown
 \slurDown
 f,2_\markup{Tbn 2}\mp ( d
  f2 g4) f\rest
}
\\
\new CueVoice {
  \stemUp
  \slurUp
 af2^\markup{Tbn 1} ( bf4 c8 d
  b2 c4) e\rest

}
  
}
}

Starting lilypond-windows.exe 2.18.2 [Untitled]...

Processing `c:/users/chris/appdata/local/temp/frescobaldi-ywvkwd/tmpivikeh/
document.ly'

Parsing...

c:/users/chris/appdata/local/temp/frescobaldi-ywvkwd/tmpivikeh/document.ly:1
0: warning: no \version statement found, please add

\version 2.18.2

for future compatibility

Interpreting music...

Preprocessing graphical objects...

Finding the ideal number of pages...

Fitting music on 1 page...

Drawing systems...

c:/users/chris/appdata/local/temp/frescobaldi-ywvkwd/tmpivikeh/document.ly:13:14
1: warning: cannot resolve rest collision: rest direction not set

f2 g4)

f\rest

c:/users/chris/appdata/local/temp/frescobaldi-ywvkwd/tmpivikeh/document.ly:13:14
2: warning: cannot resolve rest collision: rest direction not set

f2 g4)

f\rest

Layout output to `document.ps'...
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Easy way to switch off transpositions

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

I find it would be very convenient every now and again to be able to change
a score to be non-transposing -- in order to easily check pitches etc.

I've already organised my music via variables, e.g.:

BflatBassMusic = {
  \transposition bf,,
  \transpose bf,, c {
\relative c{
  bf1--\pp
  bf1--
  R1
  R1
  f'2.\pp  \breathe g4
  f2.  \breathe g4
}
}

-- and this music is included in voice definitions.

I could comment out the \transpose command, but that seems a bit messy.
Current best guess is:

BflatBassNotes = {
  \relative c{
  bf1--\pp
  bf1--
  R1
  R1
  f'2.\pp  \breathe g4
  f2.  \breathe g4
}
}


BflatBassMusic = {
  \transposition bf,,
  \transpose bf,, c {
 \BflatBassNotes
}
}

BflatBassMusicConcertPitch = {
 \BflatBassNotes
}

Any better approaches?

Chris
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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Chris Yate]

Yes, naturally PayPal takes commission. So does your bank, any credit card
provider, WorldPay or Moneygram or any other similar service. However,
PayPal is secure and reliable enough for Amazon and a huge number of online
stores to be happy using it, not to mention charitable organizations that
benefit from it being so convenient for spur-of-the-moment donations!

As I understand it, there are some differences in the commission payable
for sending money to a friend vs buying a thing, but I've not looked into
it for a couple of years. We were investigating it for managing our
orchestra subs - I think it was about £1.30 for a £40 subscription payment.

Sure they do probably evade/avoid tax. I've given up worrying too much
about that, because I don't want to live my life completely off the grid ;-)

I don't work for them or anything, I just don't understand the paranoia.
Your choice as ever whether you use them.

Anyway, this is probably OT.

Cheers, Chris
On 24 Oct 2015 07:21, "Michael Gerdau"  wrote:

> > I suggest David, or one of the other project owners set up a Paypal
> > account that we can easily fire money off to from anywhere in the world,
> > anonymously.
>
> Paypal ?
>
> I would NEVER pay via Paypal unless it would be absolutely crucial for
> me and there were no other options.
>
> For once to my knowledge Paypal does take a huge amount of the paid
> money. I've been told it is 1/3 on small amounts but that is only
> hearsay, albeit I've been told this by a person to whom I once tried
> to send money via Paypal. In the end we worked out something different.
>
> The other thing is payment definitely is NOT anonymously.
>
> Last not least at least in europe they try to escape normal banking
> regulations by cherry picking their business site, evading national
> legislation etc.
>
> Ever tried to sue Paypal from Germany because you felt they are doing
> you wrong ?
> Good luck - they are based in Luxembourg. You've got to sue them there.
>
> Paypal ? No, Never.
>
> Kind regards,
> Michael
> --
>  Michael Gerdau   email: m...@qata.de
>  GPG-keys available on request or at public keyserver
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Re: My finances for working on LilyPond

[Chris Yate]

> Well, this *something* seems easy to pin down: too few developers. So at
> any given moment it is difficult to find someone who has the ability,
> the interest, and spare time at the same moment.

... Could we expect to be paid for it?

I don't expect to be paid for open-source work. In fact, doing it for the
love of it is part of the reason, when I've contributed to things in the
past.  I'd love to contribute to Lilypond, but I suspect much of the work
needs to be in Lisp -- quite the learning curve (and unless I'm wrong, very
likely a blocker to getting more collaboration).

I was really quite shocked to read of David's situation and very surprised
that someone thinks they can reasonably make a living off developing an
open source tool such as this. I must of course say that's not without
complete respect for his past and continuing work on the project.

I use Lilypond because it's free, like free speech. This is open source
software! If I were using Lilypond commercially this would be a different
situation; but if I was writing music commercially I would probably, either
by force of collaboration with publishers or by choice, have already
purchased a popular commercial software package beginning with S.

However  whilst I felt a bit guilt-tripped by the original post, I have
easily had enough use out of it to donate some cash to someone in order to
support Lilypond.

I suggest David, or one of the other project owners set up a Paypal account
that we can easily fire money off to from anywhere in the world,
anonymously.

Chris
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Re: Frescobaldi creates the pdf but doesn't export it?

[Chris Yate]

Hi -- yes, I've seen this happen a few times recently (on Windows).
Although as far as I know, the file you're looking at in Frescobaldi is a
temporary PDF file. I may be corrected by someone.

Having said that I'm not sure whether Frescobaldi always has the "working"
folder you would expect... And one possibility of this occurring seems to
be if the target file was open in another PDF reader (some -- Adobe for
example -- locks the file. Very annoyingly. )

Chris


On 10 October 2015 at 10:57, Luca Danieli  wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> in these last 2 days I have been re-editing some scores of mine in
> lilypond.
> One worked perfectly, while the second one worked fine as well but didn't
> export the pdf file of the score.
> I mean that I can stream the pdf in Frescobaldi, but I cannot find the
> file in the relative path.
>
> This is the building response:
>
> Layout output to `Violin piece from Cist Tombs on Amorgos.ps'...
> Converting to `./Violin piece from Cist Tombs on Amorgos.pdf'...
> Success: compilation successfully completed
> Completed successfully in 16.4".
>
> but if I go to the path -> ./
> nothing is there except for the *.ly file.
>
> I am using lilypond 2.18.2 on Ubuntu 15.04
>
> Cheers,
> Luca
>
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Re: Switching on/off instrument staff

[Chris Yate]

Hi Rob,

Wow, thanks, that's a much neater way. I think I should probably look at
refactoring my band template.

I agree, my method is a bit complicated -- but it's bothering me a bit,
because I think there was a reason I did it like this in the first place!
Could well be an insufficient understanding at the time, of how variables
work :-)

I do already use variables as:

violinMusic = { a b c d }

violinVoice = \new Voice {
 % voice setup stuff %
 \violinMusic
}

Chris

On 8 July 2015 at 09:58, Robert Schmaus robert.schm...@web.de wrote:

 In addition to the suggested way with tags (which surely works, but
 which I find overly complicated), a simpler way would be to simply place
 the Staffs in variables and comment out the ones you don't want to have
 in the next engraving. Like this:

 violinStaff = \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Violin }{
 \relative c'' { c4 d e f }
 }

 celloStaff = \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Cello }{
 \relative c { c4 d e f }
 }

 \score{
 
   \violinStaff
   \celloStaff
 
 }

 IMO there's no need for a complicated tag structure, just go for a
 simple approach. You will want to use a variable structure for any
 non-trivial score anyway ...

 Best, Rob


 Am 07/07/15 um 17:42 schrieb Víctor:
  Hello Lilyponders:
 
  Is there a way to place a switch in some instrument part so it is not
  rendered when such switch is off? Something like:
 
  \score{
  
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Violin }{
  \relative c'' { c4 d e f }
  }
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Cello }{
  \relative c { c4 d e f }
  }
  
  }
 
  \layout{
  \disableCello
  }
 
  Thanks,
  Víctor.
 
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Re: lilypond snippet web page

[Chris Yate]

http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/lsr.di.unimi.it
 :-)

Down here too

On 8 July 2015 at 13:47, MING TSANG tsan...@rogers.com wrote:

 I am trying to access snippets since Sunday.  Web apge down?
 All I get is :

 This webpage is not available
 ERR_CONNECTION_TIMED_OUT


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Re: Switching on/off instrument staff

[Chris Yate]

Here's a better example!
\version 2.18.2

#(set-default-paper-size a4landscape)
#(set-global-staff-size 14)

music =
{
  
  \new StaffGroup 
\tag #'score \tag #'sop  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #Soprano
Cornet
shortInstrumentName = #Eb Cn }  a b c 
\tag #'score \tag #'solc \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #Solo
cornet
   shortInstrumentName = #S Cn }a b c 
\tag #'score \tag #'repc \new Staff \with { instrumentName =
#Repiano cornet
   shortInstrumentName = #R Cn }a b c 
\tag #'score \tag #'c2 \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #2nd
Cornet
   shortInstrumentName = #Cn 2 }a b c 
   %staffgroup

}

\score {
 \keepWithTag #'c2 \music
 \layout {}
  \midi { }
}


\score {
 \keepWithTag #'score \music
  \layout {}
  \midi { }
}


\score {
 \keepWithTag #'score \removeWithTag #'repc \music
  \layout {}
  \midi { }
}


On 8 July 2015 at 00:27, Chris Yate chrisy...@gmail.com wrote:

 Yes. This is how I do parts and score.

 Use tags


 music =
 {
   
   \new StaffGroup 
 \tag #'score \tag #'sop  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #Soprano
 Cornet
 shortInstrumentName = #Eb Cn }  \global \Marks
 \SopranoCornetVoice 
 \tag #'score \tag #'solc \new Staff \with { instrumentName =
 #Solo cornet
shortInstrumentName = #S Cn } \global
 \Marks  \SoloCornetVoice 
 \tag #'score \tag #'repc \new Staff \with { instrumentName =
 #Repiano cornet
shortInstrumentName = #R Cn } \global
 \Marks \RepianoCornetVoice 
 \tag #'score \tag #'c2 \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #2nd
 Cornet
shortInstrumentName = #Cn 2 } \global
 \Marks \SecondCornetVoice 
%staffgroup
 
 }


 Parts:

 (This is 2nd Cornet)

 \score {
  \keepWithTag #'c2 \music
   \midi { }
 }


 Score:

 #(set-default-paper-size a4landscape)
 #(set-global-staff-size 14)
 \score {
  \keepWithTag #'score \music

   \midi { }
 }





 On 8 July 2015 at 00:15, tisimst tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Short answer: No.

 Long answer: Still no. However, you could just use block comments %{ ...
 %} around the staff you want to temporarily disable.

 HTH,
 Abraham

 On Tuesday, July 7, 2015, Víctor [via Lilypond] [hidden email]
 http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=178491i=0 wrote:

 Hello Lilyponders:

 Is there a way to place a switch in some instrument part so it is not
 rendered when such switch is off? Something like:

 \score{
  
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Violin }{
  \relative c'' { c4 d e f }
  }
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Cello }{
  \relative c { c4 d e f }
  }
  
 }

 \layout{
  \disableCello
 }

 Thanks,
 Víctor.

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Re: Switching on/off instrument staff

[Chris Yate]

Yes. This is how I do parts and score.

Use tags


music =
{
  
  \new StaffGroup 
\tag #'score \tag #'sop  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #Soprano
Cornet
shortInstrumentName = #Eb Cn }  \global \Marks
\SopranoCornetVoice 
\tag #'score \tag #'solc \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #Solo
cornet
   shortInstrumentName = #S Cn } \global
\Marks  \SoloCornetVoice 
\tag #'score \tag #'repc \new Staff \with { instrumentName =
#Repiano cornet
   shortInstrumentName = #R Cn } \global
\Marks \RepianoCornetVoice 
\tag #'score \tag #'c2 \new Staff \with { instrumentName = #2nd
Cornet
   shortInstrumentName = #Cn 2 } \global
\Marks \SecondCornetVoice 
   %staffgroup

}


Parts:

(This is 2nd Cornet)

\score {
 \keepWithTag #'c2 \music
  \midi { }
}


Score:

#(set-default-paper-size a4landscape)
#(set-global-staff-size 14)
\score {
 \keepWithTag #'score \music

  \midi { }
}





On 8 July 2015 at 00:15, tisimst tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com wrote:

 Short answer: No.

 Long answer: Still no. However, you could just use block comments %{ ...
 %} around the staff you want to temporarily disable.

 HTH,
 Abraham

 On Tuesday, July 7, 2015, Víctor [via Lilypond] [hidden email]
 http:///user/SendEmail.jtp?type=nodenode=178491i=0 wrote:

 Hello Lilyponders:

 Is there a way to place a switch in some instrument part so it is not
 rendered when such switch is off? Something like:

 \score{
  
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Violin }{
  \relative c'' { c4 d e f }
  }
  \new Staff \with { instrumentName = Cello }{
  \relative c { c4 d e f }
  }
  
 }

 \layout{
  \disableCello
 }

 Thanks,
 Víctor.

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Re: Easy way to switch off transpositions

[Chris Yate]

On 12 July 2015 at 23:02, David Kastrup d...@gnu.org wrote:

 Chris Yate chrisy...@gmail.com writes:

  I find it would be very convenient every now and again to be able to
 change
  a score to be non-transposing -- in order to easily check pitches etc.
 
  Any better approaches?

 Well, the Midi should be fine already, so you need this just for
 proofreading.  And for that, you should be able to just transpose back
 again.

 Another possibility is working with music quotes: those are always in
 concert pitch.

 --
 David Kastrup


Ah -- applying the inverse transposition on each voice, in the concert
pitch score?  Of course! Yes, I think that would work, will give it a go.

Chris
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Re: Extract notes from chords, with silence when there are none

[Chris Yate]

Just to clarify, in the case of 3-voice music, how would you expect it to
deal with a 2 note chord?

One note to Treble, one to Bass, or one in Treble, one in Alto, or... what?

Chris

On 16 September 2015 at 13:07,  wrote:

> I'd like to take a passage of music that contains chords with differing
> numbers of notes, and some single notes, and extract it into separate
> monophonic streams such that their union is the original passage.  The
> application is to generate microtonal MIDI using pitch bend, which can
> only practically play one note per channel, from music entered as
> polyphonic voices for typesetting convenience.
>
> I'm aware of the snippet at
>http://lsr.di.unimi.it/LSR/Item?id=545
>
> and it does almost what I want, except for the handling of missing notes.
> If I specify an index greater than the number of notes playing at a given
> moment, then this code returns the highest-numbered note that exists.  I
> don't understand why anyone would want that behaviour, but that's what the
> code does.  I want to have rests, not duplicated notes, in the remaining
> voices when there are fewer notes playing than the number of voices.
>
> Is there any simple, obvious way to modify the code to do this?  I can
> probably get it to work with enough trial and error, but it's not clear to
> me where in the code it is actually handling the case of index greater
> than the number of notes, so I'm not sure what to try modifying first.
>
> --
> Matthew Skala
> msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles.
> http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/
>
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Re: Violin notation advice requested

[Chris Yate]

No, It's quite common to indicate the string by Roman numerals. Printed
music would hardly ever indicate position, but it is normal to see either
"sul G" or "IV".
On 19 Sep 2015 12:31, "Ralph Palmer"  wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 18, 2015 at 2:14 PM, Michael Gerdau  wrote:
>
>> > No, both are fingerings.
>>
>>  I've never seen a
>> violin fingering indicating the string.
>
>
> I have seen violin and viola fingerings indicating the string, but I agree
> that it is infrequent and usually the string is indicated by letter, not
> number. I have, however, seen the string indicated by number, though I
> cannot remember where.
>
> All the best,
>
> Ralph
>
> --
> Ralph Palmer
> Brattleboro, VT
> USA
> palmer.r.vio...@gmail.com
>
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Re: How Beautiful Upon the Mountains by Stainer

[Chris Yate]

It's available at CPDL, did you look there?

http://www1.cpdl.org/wiki/images/7/7e/How_beautiful_upon_the_Mountain.pdf


On 3 December 2015 at 15:18, Gregory Citarella 
wrote:

> Hello:  is there anyway I can get a pdf of the choir anthem that I see on
> you tube of How Beautiful upon the mountains by John Stainer.  I see it was
> done by someone using lilypond.org
>
> This is the url I am referring to:
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wCy3v3Xyg
>
> I am the Minister of Music at Zion Episcopal church in Wappingers Falls NY
> /
> USA.  I have a score in 4/2 meter.  I see this one is in 4/4 meter.  It
> looks better in 4/4.
>
> I appreciate whatever you can do to help me.  My choir is singing this
> anthem at Christmas.
>
> Peace...
>
> Gregory
>
>
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Re: How Beautiful Upon the Mountains by Stainer

[Chris Yate]

Sorry, I see that's an arrangement for ATB

On 3 December 2015 at 15:44, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's available at CPDL, did you look there?
>
> http://www1.cpdl.org/wiki/images/7/7e/How_beautiful_upon_the_Mountain.pdf
>
>
> On 3 December 2015 at 15:18, Gregory Citarella <
> gregory.citare...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello:  is there anyway I can get a pdf of the choir anthem that I see on
>> you tube of How Beautiful upon the mountains by John Stainer.  I see it
>> was
>> done by someone using lilypond.org
>>
>> This is the url I am referring to:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5wCy3v3Xyg
>>
>> I am the Minister of Music at Zion Episcopal church in Wappingers Falls
>> NY /
>> USA.  I have a score in 4/2 meter.  I see this one is in 4/4 meter.  It
>> looks better in 4/4.
>>
>> I appreciate whatever you can do to help me.  My choir is singing this
>> anthem at Christmas.
>>
>> Peace...
>>
>> Gregory
>>
>>
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Strange beaming error

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

I'm wondering whether anyone can shed some light on the attached image.

LH of the piano here is:

{
 bf,16 (ef g8) r8
  c,16 g' c, g' bf, g'
  \clef bass
}

I have a suspicion this may have something to do with the Timing / beat
moment and beat structure, but it's inconclusive. This section of the music
has:

  \set Timing.baseMoment = #(ly:make-moment 1/16)
  \set Timing.beatStructure = #'( 6 6 )

There are no barline errors, but I'm seeing this in the output quite a lot:

programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263

continuing, cross fingers

programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 105.654382

continuing, cross fingers

programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263

continuing, cross fingers



Previously I was getting a similar issue where I had bars of 6 quavers,
which were grouped in 3's -- and the middle of the second group was getting
a spurious semiquaver beam. I seem to fixed it, though I'm not sure what
the cause was.

Thanks in advance,

Chris

[image: Inline images 1]
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Re: Strange beaming error

[Chris Yate]

On 6 January 2016 at 23:53, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm wondering whether anyone can shed some light on the attached image.
>
> LH of the piano here is:
>
> {
>  bf,16 (ef g8) r8
>   c,16 g' c, g' bf, g'
>   \clef bass
> }
>
> I have a suspicion this may have something to do with the Timing / beat
> moment and beat structure, but it's inconclusive. This section of the music
> has:
>
>   \set Timing.baseMoment = #(ly:make-moment 1/16)
>   \set Timing.beatStructure = #'( 6 6 )
>
> There are no barline errors, but I'm seeing this in the output quite a
> lot:
>
> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263
>
> continuing, cross fingers
>
> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 105.654382
>
> continuing, cross fingers
>
> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263
>
> continuing, cross fingers
>
>
>
> Previously I was getting a similar issue where I had bars of 6 quavers,
> which were grouped in 3's -- and the middle of the second group was getting
> a spurious semiquaver beam. I seem to fixed it, though I'm not sure what
> the cause was.
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Chris
>

P.S. Using Lilypond 2.19.28.



>
> [image: Inline images 1]
>
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Re: Strange beaming error

[Chris Yate]

Further problems. I commented out the Time settings and here's more, this
time in the RH (note paired semiquavers in LH here, which would be in
sixes).

This is now built with revision 35 (the latest).
[image: Inline images 1]

On 6 January 2016 at 23:59, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 6 January 2016 at 23:53, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm wondering whether anyone can shed some light on the attached image.
>>
>> LH of the piano here is:
>>
>> {
>>  bf,16 (ef g8) r8
>>   c,16 g' c, g' bf, g'
>>   \clef bass
>> }
>>
>> I have a suspicion this may have something to do with the Timing / beat
>> moment and beat structure, but it's inconclusive. This section of the music
>> has:
>>
>>   \set Timing.baseMoment = #(ly:make-moment 1/16)
>>   \set Timing.beatStructure = #'( 6 6 )
>>
>> There are no barline errors, but I'm seeing this in the output quite a
>> lot:
>>
>> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263
>>
>> continuing, cross fingers
>>
>> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 105.654382
>>
>> continuing, cross fingers
>>
>> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263
>>
>> continuing, cross fingers
>>
>>
>>
>> Previously I was getting a similar issue where I had bars of 6 quavers,
>> which were grouped in 3's -- and the middle of the second group was getting
>> a spurious semiquaver beam. I seem to fixed it, though I'm not sure what
>> the cause was.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> P.S. Using Lilypond 2.19.28.
>
>
>
>>
>> [image: Inline images 1]
>>
>
>
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Re: Strange beaming error

[Chris Yate]

On 7 January 2016 at 00:49, Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> 2016-01-07 0:53 GMT+01:00 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm wondering whether anyone can shed some light on the attached image.
>>
>> LH of the piano here is:
>>
>> {
>>  bf,16 (ef g8) r8
>>   c,16 g' c, g' bf, g'
>>   \clef bass
>> }
>>
>> I have a suspicion this may have something to do with the Timing / beat
>> moment and beat structure, but it's inconclusive. This section of the music
>> has:
>>
>>   \set Timing.baseMoment = #(ly:make-moment 1/16)
>>   \set Timing.beatStructure = #'( 6 6 )
>>
>> There are no barline errors, but I'm seeing this in the output quite a
>> lot:
>>
>> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263
>>
>> continuing, cross fingers
>>
>> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 105.654382
>>
>> continuing, cross fingers
>>
>> programming error: mis-predicted force, 108.120472 ~= 101.465263
>>
>> continuing, cross fingers
>>
>>
>>
>> Previously I was getting a similar issue where I had bars of 6 quavers,
>> which were grouped in 3's -- and the middle of the second group was getting
>> a spurious semiquaver beam. I seem to fixed it, though I'm not sure what
>> the cause was.
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
 Hi Thomas,


> Without tiny example everyone can guess only.
>

Yes, I appreciate that -- I wasn't  able to get a minimal working example.
I was hoping for any general suggestions to fix or known bugs that might
cause this.

It's ~200 bars of music, over 5 files, so if necessary I'll put it up on a
Gist.

Btw, your images are inline _not_ attached.
>

Are inlined images not OK here? ...or were you just being pedantic? ;-)

Chris
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RE: Strange beaming error

[Chris Yate]

On 7 Jan 2016 1:31 am, "Mark Stephen Mrotek" <carsonm...@ca.rr.com> wrote:

>
> Chris:
>
>
> What is the time signature? 6/8?
>
> Or is it 2/4 grouped as if in tuplets?
> Mark

Mark,

Yes, it's 6/8.
Although it changes to 4/4 for one movement - the one before this problem
occurs (that may or may not be coincidental), and there's partial bars at
the beginning and end of most of the movements

Chris

---
On 7 January 2016 at 09:05, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:

> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
> > Are inlined images not OK here? ...or were you just being pedantic?
> > ;-)
>
> They were inlined into the HTML part only rather than attached as a
> separate MIME part with an inline disposition.
>
> As a result, a number of readers will not be able to see them (for
> example, I had to switch my default viewing modes around after being
> made aware by Thomas that there was supposed to be an included graphic)
> and the list archives are not likely to offer them either since they
> tend to trash the HTML parts.
>
> So your method of attachment is not likely to work well for a lot of
> purposes (probably the only worse way would be to make it a background
> image of the mail).  I would strongly suggest that you try to figure out
> one that would be more likely to work with the bulk of readers.


OK, noted, thanks.  I'm now rather accustomed to using webmail, and it's
arguably a failing of the webmail client if it doesn't attach a
drag-dropped file properly.  Whilst I don't want to start a holy war on
this point, I'd hazard a guess that the *bulk* of readers nowadays, by
which I mean email clients designed for humans to read, are perfectly
capable of reading HTML emails.

The main exception I can see (and it's a good one) is a list archive. Would
attachments be archived too? Inline replies vs top posting is the same
argument IMO.

Chris
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Re: How to reproduce this?

[Chris Yate]

Hi there,There's a few things wrong here...

I'd start by getting the voices separated. So  something like:

<<
   \quaver_triplet_stuff
% this will be voice 1 and stems-up
\\
   \chord_notes
% this will be voice 2, but you'll have to hide the stems. exercise for the
reader ;-)
>>

Chord notation here
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/chord-notation

...



On 7 January 2016 at 16:06, Carl-Henrik Buschmann 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm a Lilypond newbie switching over from Sibelius. As part of my self
> tutoring I have tried my hand at reproducing a example (written in Sib) i
> used in my thesis:
>
> http://i.imgur.com/SboviWR.png
>
> I'm a bit stuck and i hope you guys can give me a nudge.
> This is my feeble attempt:
>
> \version "2.18.2"
> \language "german"
>
> <<
> \chords {
>   f2 gis4 dis b
> }
>
> \relative c'' {
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c8 c c }
>   \tuplet 3/2 { c c c }
>   \tuplet 3/2 { dis dis dis }
>   \tuplet 3/2 { dis dis dis } | %m1
>   fis4
> }
>
> \\
> \relative c' {
>   < f a c >2 < gis bis dis >4 < fisis ais dis > | %m1
>   < fis b dis >4
> }
> \addlyrics {
>   V2 bVII III/IV I
> }
> >>
>
> Product:
> http://i.imgur.com/Ot3HNE2.png
>
> I have many problems:
>
> 1) The chords are at the bottom.
> 2) The chords have the wrong font.
> 3) I have NO idea how to properly write roman numeral analysis, lyrics is
> not the way to go it seems.
> 4) The dottet phrasing line.
> 5) The 1. and 2. voice crash.
>
> Help?
>
> Buschmann
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Re: Strange beaming error

[Chris Yate]

On 7 January 2016 at 17:12, Mark Stephen Mrotek 
wrote:

> Chris,
>
>
>
> As I mentioned in a previous reply, make sure that identical “\set
> Timining” instructions are in both the upper and lower staff.
>
> Once this is done, recompile and check for accuracy.
>
>
>
> Mark
>
>
>
Thanks for the suggestion - I tried that but it didn't help.

In a general case I wouldn't always want the same beaming in each hand, so
if the output is sensitive to that it's probably a bug...

Anyway, Urs Liska has a Gist with my current code on this project, and I
gather is going to do a regression test in case there's a recent bug in
Lilypond.

Chris
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Fwd: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure

[Chris Yate]

In case anyone here is interested (perhaps Ralph), a Minimal not-Working
Example I've sent to the bugs list.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>
Date: 9 January 2016 at 09:55
Subject: Re: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure
To: tisimst <tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com>
Cc: bug-lilyp...@gnu.org


So, it turns out this was easy to minimise the code. File is attached. It's
still ~70 bars but only one voice, which is the dynamics staff of a piano
score (without anything else), so it's only silent music.

"AutoPageBreaksOff" in the score block causes the exception failure.

I note some "insane spring distance" warnings.These don't happen in the
real thing.

Chris


On 9 January 2016 at 09:05, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes I understand a minimal example is ideal, but I don't think this would
> occur with minimal code. I'll run a couple of tests to check.
>
> Chris
> On 9 Jan 2016 4:33 am, "Abraham Lee" <tisimst.lilyp...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Sorry, I didn't mean to have you send _me_ your code (typing error). Is
>> your code that big that you can't reduce it down towards a "tiny example"?
>> If you can, that'd be best. Otherwise, if a single file, just attach the
>> file to an email. If a group of files, then a .zip folder would be fine.
>> I've seen others share code via gist or github, etc. Take your pick I guess.
>>
>> Best,
>> Abraham
>>
>> On Friday, January 8, 2016, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, and thanks.
>>>
>>> How would be best to give you the code? I could attach as a .zip to a
>>> list email, or upload to a gist.
>>>
>>> (Please note, I'm using openlilylib, minimally, which I doubt has
>>> anything to do with the bug but is a dependency)
>>> Forwarding to the bug list. Yes, if I'd make your code available to the
>>> developers.
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Abraham
>>>
>>> -- Forwarded message --
>>> From: *Chris Yate* <chrisy...@gmail.com>
>>> Date: Friday, January 8, 2016
>>> Subject: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure
>>> To: Lilypond-User Mailing List <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>> I'm trying to paginate my score nicely and the automatic paging isn't
>>> good enough. So I'm doing all the page breaks manually -- and a certain
>>> situation is causing an assertion failure on compilation:
>>>
>>> << Snippet of output:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> MIDI output to `BeiMannernScore.mid'...
>>>
>>> Finding the ideal number of pages...
>>>
>>> Fitting music on 9 or 10 pages...
>>>
>>> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
>>> way.
>>>
>>> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>>>
>>> Assertion failed!
>>>
>>> Program: C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond.exe
>>>
>>> File:
>>> /home/gub/NewGub/gub/target/mingw/src/lilypond-git.sv.gnu.org--lilypond.git-release-unstable/lily/page-breaking.cc,
>>> Line 1180
>>>
>>> Expression: ret <= cached_line_details_.size ()
>>>
>>> Exited with return code 3.
>>>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem occurs with the page break on a specific bar. For now I've
>>> done the obvious thing and gone with a working state -- it's not critical.
>>>
>>>
>>> Happy to push the code up to a Gist for anyone that wishes to debug the
>>> issue. Let me know.
>>>
>>>
>>> (This is apparently not happening if I build on Linux, only in Windows).
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>>
\version "2.19.35"

 dynamics = 
 {
 \time 6/8 \partial 8*4 s8\p s s s | 
 s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. |
 s s s\p s s s | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4. \crescTextCresc s8\cresc s\! s | s4. s4\f s8 
 | s8 s s\p s s s \f | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4. s4 \tuplet 3/2 { s16 s s } | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4.\sf s4. | s2. | s2. | s4.\sf s4. | s4.\sf s4. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4.\sf\> s4 s8\! | s4 s8 s16\< s s8 s | s4.\sf\> s4 s8\! 
 | s16\> s\! s8 s8 s4 s8 | s4. s4\pp s8 | \crescHairpin s4\< s8 s4 s8 
 | s4\> s8 s4 s8 | s4\! \crescTextCresc s8\< s s\! s | s8 s s\p s s s 
 | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s4 s8 s \crescTextCresc s8\cresc s8\! 
 | s8 s8 s8 s16\p s s8 s | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. 
 | s4 s8 \crescTextCresc s16\cresc s s8 s | s4 s8 s8\f s s8 
 | s4 s8\p s4 s8 | s4. s4.\sf | s2. | 4 8 s4.\sf | s4 s8 s4.\sf 
 | s4 s8 \afterGrace s4.\sf { s16 s } | s16\f s s8 s2 | s2. 
 | s4 \dimTextDecresc s8\> s4 s8 | s2. | s2.\p | s4 s8 s4 s8\pp 
 | s2. | s2. | s2. | s2. | s4 s8 s4 s8\ff | s2. 
 } 
 
 \score
 {
 << 
\autoPageBreaksOff
\dynamics >> 
 \header {} 
 \layout { }
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Instrument name in magnified staff

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

As per the documentation*, I'm using \magnifyStaff to reduce the size of
the solo line in a piano accompaniment.

\version "2.19.35"

\score {
  <<
\new Staff \with { instrumentName = "Example 1"
   \magnifyStaff #4/7
}
<< \relative c{ a b c d } >>
\new Staff \with { instrumentName = "Example 2"
}
<< \relative c{ a b c d } >>
  >>
  \layout{}
}

Unfortunately the instrument name is _also_ magnified (negatively). (See
attached)

Is this really the intended result? How would I make the instrument name
text full size?

Thanks,

Chris

*
http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/setting-the-staff-size
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Re: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure

[Chris Yate]

No, it's not self-built, it's the latest dev image from the website!

Windows 10, 64bit. Any other info you need?
Chris
On 9 Jan 2016 10:17 pm, "Colin Campbell" <c...@shaw.ca> wrote:

> On 16-01-08 07:09 PM, Chris Yate wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I'm trying to paginate my score nicely and the automatic paging isn't good
> enough. So I'm doing all the page breaks manually -- and a certain
> situation is causing an assertion failure on compilation:
>
> << Snippet of output:
>
> 
>
> MIDI output to `BeiMannernScore.mid'...
>
> Finding the ideal number of pages...
>
> Fitting music on 9 or 10 pages...
>
> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
> way.
>
> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
>
> Assertion failed!
>
> Program: C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond.exe
>
> File:
> /home/gub/NewGub/gub/target/mingw/src/lilypond-git.sv.gnu.org--lilypond.git-release-unstable/lily/page-breaking.cc,
> Line 1180
>
> Expression: ret <= cached_line_details_.size ()
>
> Exited with return code 3.
>
> >>
>
>
> The problem occurs with the page break on a specific bar. For now I've
> done the obvious thing and gone with a working state -- it's not critical.
>
>
> Happy to push the code up to a Gist for anyone that wishes to debug the
> issue. Let me know.
>
>
> (This is apparently not happening if I build on Linux, only in Windows).
>
>
> I'll confirm that your example from down-thread does not give an exception
> error under 64-bit linux. I see that you are using a self-built binary;
> have you tried downloading and installing a binary from the website, to
> isolate possible issues with your local environment?
>
> Cheers,
> Colin
>
>
> --
> Celestial navigation is based on the premise that the Earth is the center
> of the universe. The premise is wrong, but the navigation works. An
> incorrect model can be a useful tool.
>  - Kelvin Throop III
>
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Re: Manual page breaking causing assertion failure

[Chris Yate]

On 9 January 2016 at 14:28, Thomas Morley <thomasmorle...@gmail.com> wrote:

> 2016-01-09 14:18 GMT+01:00 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>:
> > In case anyone here is interested (perhaps Ralph), a Minimal not-Working
> > Example I've sent to the bugs list.
> [...]
> > "AutoPageBreaksOff" in the score block causes the exception failure.
>
> \autoPageBreaksOff
>
> is not a LilyPond-command.
> Did you define it locally?
> If so, how?
>
> Cheers,
>   Harm
>

I read the * manual :)

http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/page-breaking
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Manual page breaking causing assertion failure

[Chris Yate]

Hi,
I'm trying to paginate my score nicely and the automatic paging isn't good
enough. So I'm doing all the page breaks manually -- and a certain
situation is causing an assertion failure on compilation:

<< Snippet of output:



MIDI output to `BeiMannernScore.mid'...

Finding the ideal number of pages...

Fitting music on 9 or 10 pages...

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual
way.

Please contact the application's support team for more information.

Assertion failed!

Program: C:\Program Files (x86)\LilyPond\usr\bin\lilypond.exe

File:
/home/gub/NewGub/gub/target/mingw/src/lilypond-git.sv.gnu.org--lilypond.git-release-unstable/lily/page-breaking.cc,
Line 1180

Expression: ret <= cached_line_details_.size ()

Exited with return code 3.

>>


The problem occurs with the page break on a specific bar. For now I've done
the obvious thing and gone with a working state -- it's not critical.


Happy to push the code up to a Gist for anyone that wishes to debug the
issue. Let me know.


(This is apparently not happening if I build on Linux, only in Windows).

Chris
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Re: Unwanted barline. How to get rid of it?

[Chris Yate]

Your 3rd full bar has only 5 quavers. It should be a partial, if that's
what you want.

On 23 December 2015 at 11:47, Robert Blackstone  wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> In one of the pieces that I'm presently typesetting there appears, near
> the end, after a repeat, a barline that should not be there. (See the MWE
> below)
>
> How can I either get rid of it or else hide it?
>  _
> \version "2.18.2"
>
>
> {\relative c {
>\clef bass
>\key c \major
>\time 6/8
>
> \repeat volta 2 {\partial 8
> c'8
>  c4. c |
>  c c |
>  c r4|
>  }
>
>  c4.~  c \bar "|."
>  }
> }
> __
> Thanks in advance for any advice,
>
> Best regards,
> Robert Blackstone
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Re: Unwanted barline. How to get rid of it?

[Chris Yate]

On 23 December 2015 at 12:03, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Your 3rd full bar has only 5 quavers. It should be a partial, if that's
> what you want.
>


Erm. I may be wrong...
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Adjusting a slur after line break

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

I'm having trouble with a long slurred passage, where the final note
appears on a new line.

The slur shape is quite wrong after the line break in both upper and lower
parts, but I've included only the upper part here.

Snippet ly (actual excerpt) and a PNG attached -- I think there's a thing
called "alterBroken" but I can't work out how to use it.

Hopefully someone can help!

Thanks in advance,

Chris
\version "2.19.33"
\language "english"

right = 
  \relative c''{
\time 6/8
\oneVoice
r4. d,16 (f af cf af bf
  |  
  gf bf ef gf f ef d f af cf af bf
  |  
  gf f ef d ef cf bf af gf f ef df
  | 
  \change Staff = "down"
  \stemUp
  cf bf af gf ff ef d cf' ef, bf' f af
  \break
  | 
 8^. ) s8 s8 s4.
  |
}

\score{
 \new PianoStaff \with {
  instrumentName = "Piano"  
} <<
  \new Staff = "up"  \right
  \new Staff = "down" \with {
  } { \clef bass \time 6/8 s2. s2. s2. s2. s2. }
>>
}

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Re: Adjusting a slur after line break

[Chris Yate]

Thanks... with that hint and a bit more research, I can achieve something a
bit better with this modification to the original:



r4.
\shape  #'(((0.0 . 0.0) (0 . 1.2) (0 . 1.2) (4 . 1))
  ((0.0 . 0.0) (0 . 1.2) (0 . 1.2) (4 . 1))
  ((0 . 4.0) (0 . 3) (0 . 1) (0 . 0)) ) Slur

d,16 (f af cf af bf  |



I'd rather tweak just the messy end of the slur, leaving the rest as
default, but it appears that can't be done.

The example here for setting the final part of the slur to dashes works ok:
http://lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/notation/modifying-broken-spanners

But I can't get /alterBroken to work properly at all on control points.

When I try the "tweak" version, that I assume would look like:



r4.
d,16-\alterBroken control-points #'(((0.0 . 0.0) (0 . 1.2) (0 . 1.2) (4 .
1))  ((0.0 . 0.0) (0 . 1.2) (0 . 1.2) (4 . 1))  ((0 . 4.0) (0 . 3) (0 . 1)
(0 . 0)) )
(f af cf af bf  |



 then the slur only appears as a small, and odd-shaped squiggle by the
first note d.  Editing these control points is a bit of hit and miss
anyway, but I don't feel I understand the syntax for \alterBroken well
enough; there are too few examples at present!


Chris


On 19 December 2015 at 22:46, Urs Liska <u...@openlilylib.org> wrote:

> I'm only on the phone right now. But wirh \shape you can pass overrides
> for multiple parts of a broken curve.
>
> Am 19. Dezember 2015 23:39:15 MEZ, schrieb Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com
> >:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I'm having trouble with a long slurred passage, where the final note
>> appears on a new line.
>>
>> The slur shape is quite wrong after the line break in both upper and
>> lower parts, but I've included only the upper part here.
>>
>> Snippet ly (actual excerpt) and a PNG attached -- I think there's a thing
>> called "alterBroken" but I can't work out how to use it.
>>
>> Hopefully someone can help!
>>
>> Thanks in advance,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> --
>>
>> lilypond-user mailing list
>> lilypond-user@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/lilypond-user
>>
>>
> --
> Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Mobiltelefon mit K-9 Mail
> gesendet.
>
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Re: Unwanted barline. How to get rid of it?

[Chris Yate]

Just checked. As I said -- you may want another partial bar

   \relative c {
   \clef bass
   \key c \major
   \time 6/8

\repeat volta 2 {\partial 8
c'8
 c4. c |
 c c |
* \partial 8*5*
 c r4|
 }

 c4.~  c \bar "|."
 }



On 23 December 2015 at 12:23, Noeck  wrote:

> Hi Robert,
>
> do you mean something like this?
>
> {
>   \relative c {
> \clef bass
> \key c \major
> \time 6/8
> \partial 8
> \repeat volta 2 {
>   c'8
>   c4. c |
>   c c |
>   c r4
> }
> r8 | c4.~  c \bar "|."
>   }
> }
>
> Cheers,
> Joram
>
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Re: Unwanted barline. How to get rid of it?

[Chris Yate]

On 23 December 2015 at 12:55, Robert Blackstone <blackstone.rob...@gmail.com
> wrote:

>
> On 23 Dec 2015, at 13:44 , Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Just checked. As I said -- you may want another partial bar
>
>\relative c {
>\clef bass
>\key c \major
>\time 6/8
>
> \repeat volta 2 {\partial 8
> c'8
>  c4. c |
>  c c |
> * \partial 8*5*
>  c r4|
>  }
>
>  c4.~  c \bar "|."
>
>
>
> Thank you Chris. This does it.
> I did not know how to code this.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Robert
>

Yes, that syntax is not obvious from the documentation. I have used this on
typesetting some Beethoven variations which have anacrusis bars; I needed
"\partial 16*10" in one place.

I think using a partial bar is more intuitive than "/set
Timing.measurePosition = #(ly:make-moment 6/8)". But there may be
situations where the latter is necessary.

HTH. Thanks,

Chris
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Re: Adjusting a slur after line break

[Chris Yate]

On 20 December 2015 at 00:41, Simon Albrecht <simon.albre...@mail.de> wrote:

> On 20.12.2015 00:45, Chris Yate wrote:
>
>> I can't get /alterBroken to work properly at all on control points.
>>
>> When I try the "tweak" version, that I assume would look like:
>>
>> 
>>
>> r4.
>> d,16-\alterBroken control-points #'(((0.0 . 0.0) (0 . 1.2) (0 . 1.2) (4 .
>> 1))  ((0.0 . 0.0) (0 . 1.2) (0 . 1.2) (4 . 1))  ((0 . 4.0) (0 . 3) (0 . 1)
>> (0 . 0)) )
>> (f af cf af bf  |
>>
>> 
>>
>>  then the slur only appears as a small, and odd-shaped squiggle by
>> the first note d.  Editing these control points is a bit of hit and miss
>> anyway, but I don't feel I understand the syntax for \alterBroken well
>> enough; there are too few examples at present!
>>
>
> The big advantage of the shape command is that you can give offsets for
> each control point against the default shape. The control-points property
> however has every point coded relative to the reference point for the
> entire slur (the note head of the first note in the slur, I think), which
> often makes numbers very high and trial and error very time-consuming.
>
> The second argument to \alterBroken is a list. Each of its elements will
> be applied to one of the segments of the broken spanner. If you supply less
> entries than there are segments, the remaining segments will not be tweaked.
>
> HTH, Simon
>

I think I *half* understand what "shape" is doing, but I can't get
alterBroken to work for the control points. Can you give a working example?

(I only half understand it, but I know the _two pairs_ of numbers at _each_
end of a slur shape, which code for the bezier coordinates, give the four
sets of bracketed values. How the numbers work isn't a complete mystery but
I've not yet found a better way to determine them than to keep plugging in
numbers until it looks good, by iteration. A graphical tool would be
WONDERFUL ;-) ).

Thanks,

Chris
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Re: Help with unexpexted double barline trouble and \markup

[Chris Yate]

On 15 January 2016 at 07:07, Carl-Henrik Buschmann 
wrote:

> I'm working on a lead sheet but being a novice i'm hitting my head against
> the wall at some noob problems.
>
> Bar 1)
> Stemlets. Do it have to be this hard creating them? Is there a way to make
> it global? Also, i want the stemlet to reach down towards the rest. How?
> How do i make custom rehersal marks?
> When using \markup { ... } the whole score looses it layout and to add
> insult it does not display any text. I must have done something wrong.
>
>
1) Stemlets: why do you want to write them like this? Normal quavers are
fine

2) use \mark "A", not \markup "A"


> Bar 8)
> Why does the double barline not exend equaly through both staffs?
>


You've made the lower staff smaller with   \magnifyStaff #5/7, so its
barline will be a different size too.  I've had this with instrumentname
recently (answered on here, it's by design)



> Bar 37)
> Why does it not show a double bar line?
>

I think that's because there's a double bar in the Volta section following,
but I'll concede that's unexpected.


> And finally: I feel my score is a mess. How can i clean up/simplify my
> input?
>

I'd split it into separate files, and pull them together in a master .ly
file using the
/include "music.ily"
command.

I also think barlines on separate lines helps.

So rather than

a4 b c d |
e f g a |

instead

a4 b c d
|
e f g a
|


You can also label bar numbers with comments:

a4 b c d
| %1
e f g a
| %2

but this gets tiresome after a while.


> Also, inputing this takes alot of time considering how long use on
> inputing this in Sibelius (added as pfd). What can i do to speed this up?
> Help and encouragement is much obliged.
>

Well, you need to get fast at your keyboard skills and touch-typing! I
think Lilypond is much faster than manual entry in Sibelius -- using a MIDI
keyboard may be faster but it's also more prone to errors if you're trying
quantized direct music entry.

Chris
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Re: Help with unexpexted double barline trouble and \markup

[Chris Yate]

On 15 January 2016 at 14:37, Kieren MacMillan  wrote:

> Hi Carl-Henrik,
>
> > Bar 1)
> > Stemlets. Do it have to be this hard creating them? Is there a way to
> make it global? Also, i want the stemlet to reach down towards the rest.
> How?
>
> This may be related to the issue Urs is working on at the moment. In any
> case, I’m sure there are automatic ways to make your preference global.
>

According to the documentation, no...

http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.19/Documentation/notation/beams#automatic-beams

"Beams *must* be entered manually if beams are to be extended over rests."

But I have seen a snippet through which you can avoid the slur AND beam in
the following:
a8 ([ b c d ]) a ([ b c d])

I can't remember where I saw it!

Chris
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Programmatically building music-function names

[Chris Yate]

Hi,

I'm trying to typeset a number of short pieces into multiple scores in one
file. I can do this manually, as:

```
musicOne = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }
musicTwo = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }

\score {
 \musicOne
}

\score {
  \musicTwo
}
```

However, there's a lot more common stuff in my real \score block, which
means this approach gets very tedious. What I'm trying to do instead looks
like:


```
printTheScore =
#(define-music-function
 (parser location number )
 (string? )
#{
\score {
 \music#number
}
#})

\printTheScore "One"
\printTheScore "Two"
```

This doesn't work; my substitution syntax is clearly wrong here, but I'd be
interested to see if there's a way to do it.  Or does the way the code is
parsed mean music functions can't be referenced in this way?

I've attached a ly file including the code I've pasted here.

thanks,

Chris
\version "2.19.35"

musicOne = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }
musicTwo = \relative c'' { g4 a b c }

% Manually create all scores

\score {  
 \musicOne
}

\score { 
  \musicTwo
}

% Programmatically create scores?

printTheScore = 
#(define-music-function
 (parser location number )
 (string? )
#{ 
\score {
 \music#number
}
#})

\printTheScore "One"
\printTheScore "Two"
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Re: Help with unexpexted double barline trouble and \markup

[Chris Yate]

On 15 January 2016 at 15:58, Carl-Henrik Buschmann <chbuschm...@mac.com>
wrote:

>
> 15. jan. 2016 kl. 15.32 skrev Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>:
>
>
>
> On 15 January 2016 at 07:07, Carl-Henrik Buschmann <chbuschm...@mac.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I'm working on a lead sheet but being a novice i'm hitting my head
>> against the wall at some noob problems.
>>
>> Bar 1)
>> Stemlets. Do it have to be this hard creating them? Is there a way to
>> make it global? Also, i want the stemlet to reach down towards the rest.
>> How?
>> How do i make custom rehersal marks?
>> When using \markup { ... } the whole score looses it layout and to add
>> insult it does not display any text. I must have done something wrong.
>>
>>
> 1) Stemlets: why do you want to write them like this? Normal quavers are
> fine
>
> 1) My experience is that reading rhythms with the stemlets over the rests
> helps alot. It is a tad "modern" but generally approved. Is there a way to
> make it global?
>

I'd agree that's the case for rhythms like ` a16 [ r b c ] d [ r c b ] `
but I don't *think* I've ever seen quavers written as you have done ` r8 [
a ] r [ b ] ` in commercial printed music. Just looks strange to me, but I
appreciate you want it a certain way and that's fine.

As for making it global, I don't know of a way, but I am sure it's possible
to write a function to make it happen. Not my expertise unfortunately.

Chris
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Re: Programmatically building music-function names

[Chris Yate]

On 15 Jan 2016 17:26, "David Kastrup" <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I'm trying to typeset a number of short pieces into multiple scores in
one
> > file. I can do this manually, as:
>
>
> > This doesn't work; my substitution syntax is clearly wrong here, but
> > I'd be interested to see if there's a way to do it.  Or does the way
> > the code is parsed mean music functions can't be referenced in this
> > way?
>
> A score is not music.
>
> And you cannot splice identifiers like
>
> \music#number
>
> That's just nonsensical.  Try something like
> --
> David Kastrup

Thanks David (and Caio too for your suggestion), that's the syntax I was
looking for. Basically, forming a symbol by concatenation and to have it
evaluated in the input file.

However, for its simplicity I think I probably prefer Urs's method, even if
it makes the input file a bit longer.

Chris
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 05:35, Paul Morris  wrote:

>
> One idea would be to use triangle shapes for the accidental notes to
> better clarify their relation to the “natural” or rather in-the-key,
> non-accidental, notes.  Like a diatonic-staff version of Reed’s Twinline:
> http://musicnotation.org/system/twinline-notation-by-thomas-reed/
>
> Although, I’m not sure how that would work with sharp or flat notes in a
> given key... (are they ovals or triangles?)
>
> BTW, is there a standard term for non-accidental notes?  You would think
> it would be “natural notes” but sometimes natural notes are also accidental
> notes.
>
>
In a chromatic scale, what are the accidental notes? They're certainly NOT
notes with a sharp or flat, since you may already be in a key signature
with those notes.

Chris
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 12:06, Sharon Rosner  wrote:

>
> But seriously, I see no reason to change a system which works so well for
> so
> many different kinds of music. All these alternative systems, I don't see
> what advantage they offer. On the contrary, there are many downsides -
> they're unsuitable for keyboards, unsuitable for tonal music, unsuitable
> for
> music in unequal temperament, unsuitable for microtonal music, require
> relearning how to read music, make transposition harder. So what's the
> point?
>
> Sharon
>

Well, quite.  Although I can see the benefit of some simplified notation
for chromatic runs, that would only be appropriate for certain types of
music. As it is, you will occasionally see a line between two notes in
modern music, with the explanation that you're supposed to play gliss /
chromatic scales.

But the Simplified Notation says on its website:

"Simplified Music Notation eliminates the need to make constant ‘mental
translations’ for accidentals and key signatures. Players no longer have to
remember the key signature or accidentals, because all flats and sharps are
represented by their own unique symbols."

Right. So all those annoying sharps and flats go away. To be replaced with
weird shaped blobs. So we lose all the advantage of a key signature, which
is designed to simplify the music by hiding implicit "black notes" (for
they are not accidentals).  Clairnote uses "white notes" to achieve the
same increase in visual noise.

I'm sure it's a fine idea if all you play is pieces in C major, but
realistically, it's solving a problem that isn't really there.

Chris
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Re: Bar number moves down inexplicably

[Chris Yate]

On 1 February 2016 at 02:17, David Wright  wrote:

> Coincidentally with Message-ID: <56ae6df7.8010...@gmx.de>
> > It also seems to move the bar number down. Does anybody know why?
> I also have a bar number which moves down for some reason.
>
> The attached snippet shows the problem. Commenting out the \layout
> with % {  →  %{ fixes the bar number but I lose my fermatas (both
> cases attached).
>
> I'm not familiar with the action of Staff_collecting_engraver,
> but I have a feeling the answer/workaround might lie in the page
>
> http://www.lilypond.org/doc/v2.18/Documentation/learning/outside_002dstaff-objects
>
> Cheers,
> David.


Yes, I can reproduce that (on Windows 10, Lilypond 2.19.35).

Begs the question what the "comment" symbol means if text after it on the
line is parsed...

Chris
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Re: Determine the including file

[Chris Yate]

On 22 January 2016 at 10:44, Urs Liska  wrote:

> If I have
>
> % file a.ly
> \include "b.ily"
>
> % file b.ily
> \include "c.ily"
>
> % file c.ily
>
> can I somehow refer to file b.ily from file c.ily?
> In other words: If b.ily includes c.ily can I know from within c.ily
> that it was b.ily who included me?
>
> I suppose not, but one should never give up without asking ...
>
> Best
> Urs
>

Hi Urs,

What are you trying to achieve? If you \include "c" at the end of "b", I
imagine the code in "c" will have access to code from "b".

But this smells like a circular dependency that you need to break with a
common include file.

Chris
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Re: Determine the including file

[Chris Yate]

On 22 January 2016 at 11:15, Urs Liska  wrote:

>
> What I'm thinking about is the following:
>
> I have the file openlilylib.ily, which is the main entry point to
> openLilyLib.
> I'm currently changing the way how openLilyLib is organized. Previously
> you loaded openLilyLib, and then you had the command \useLibrary to load
> specific libraries from within openLilyLib.
> In the future the libraries will be in separate repositories each
> (disentangling code, distribution, collaboration and whatever).
> For example you'll have the directories
> openlilylib/scholarly
> openlilylib/oll-core
>
> You'll "load" the ScholarLY library by including its main file (e.g.)
> openlilylib/scholarly/main.ily, and this will in turn include
> openlilylib/oll-core/main.ily.
>
> So as a user you won't write
> \include "openlilylib"
> \useLibrary Scholarly
> anymore but
> \include "scholarly/main.ily"
> (or something similar)
>
> Now the question comes:
> openLilyLib registers a list of loaded libraries and its options. What I'm
> thinking about is if a function inside openlilylib/oll-core/main.ily can
> determine from which file it has been included and then add this to the
> list of loaded libraries.
>
> If that's not possible that wouldn't be much of an issue. ScholarLY would
> then simply have to include oll-core and *then* issue a command to register
> itself with oll. But I just wanted to explore the possibility.
>
> Urs
>
>
Yes, ScholarLY registering itself via some function in oll-core is probably
a much better solution anyway. If you think in terms of "Scholarly USES
oll-core" it doesn't make sense for oll-core to do anything other than
provide functionality to the other.

You could still wrap this behaviour up in a short top-level file that looks
something like:

```
\include "oll-core.ily"
\include "scholarly-impl.ily"
oll-register ( scholarly )

```

Chris
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 16:02, Paul Morris <p...@paulwmorris.com> wrote:

> On Jan 26, 2016, at 7:35 AM, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> As it is, when I mark up confusing music I sometimes use an upside-down
> "V" to indicate semitones, "=" to indicate 'same note' and a square bracket
> (like upside down "|__|") between notes to indicate a tone. This is
> occasionally useful to me as an aide-memoire, in stuff where we have lots
> of double-sharps and flats, but it's certainly not "standard".
>
>
> I can’t help but point out, just FWIW, and intending this in a tone of
> respect, and as one consideration among a host of others that might
> outweigh it...
>
> ...that this kind of annotation wouldn’t be needed in a system where the
> differences between intervals (semitone, tone, others...) were clearly and
> consistently represented.
>
> Cheers,
> -Paul
>

Yes, you're probably right.

Though whatever you choose would have to be:

1) equally easy to read in all keys (which is demonstrably NOT the case for
traditional notation)
2) easy to manage when key changes
3) make it easy to identify octaves, and possibly the tonic, and harmonic
relationship between notes etc.
4) suitable for all tessitura, which of course we currently manage with
clefs
5) compact
6) easy to notate by hand
7) avoid confusion with traditional notation (here Clairnote fails very
badly indeed for me)

This discussion has gone way off-topic!
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

Wow. Clairnote looks like an incredibly stupid idea, and a grand disservice
to any poor child who you teach to read it.  Simplified notation is not a
lot better.

Unless they spend their lives playing on their own at home, musicians have
eventually to play with other people who will have learnt a method of
notation that's been good for 400 years.

Chris

On 25 January 2016 at 21:38, Simon Albrecht  wrote:

> On 25.01.2016 22:19, musicus wrote:
>
>> I just struggled with studying a complex music piece and thought that all
>> the chromatic lines are horrible to read in standard notation. Especially
>> the "enharmonic problem" is distracting the musician from a very simple
>> musical structure. So I tried some of my ideas and can present one, which
>> is IMO good to read.
>>
>> See attached. Comments, suggestions are very welcome ;)
>>
>
> Reminds me of Clairnote, a more radical approach, which has also been
> realised with LilyPond: .
>
> Best, Simon
>
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Re: simplifying chromatic scale notation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 January 2016 at 12:25, musicus  wrote:

> *"1. I like to know where exactly I am at a given time."*
>
> Of course there are always some "key positions", which can help to
> organize yourself while playing (or remembering/ learning etc.).
> Nevertheless I do think that it is important to reduce the optical impact
> to the minimum necessary and therefore as far as I'm concerned I don't want
> to have every single note in a chromatic scale in my perception.
>

I absolutely agree. As a competent sight reader, the problem with chromatic
scales isn't reading chromatic scales but reading the exceptions -- where
it's suddenly a tone between notes.

Now, if you can come up with a consistent and non-confusing way to notate
those differences, that could be useful!

As it is, when I mark up confusing music I sometimes use an upside-down "V"
to indicate semitones, "=" to indicate 'same note' and a square bracket
(like upside down "|__|") between notes to indicate a tone. This is
occasionally useful to me as an aide-memoire, in stuff where we have lots
of double-sharps and flats, but it's certainly not "standard".

Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Apr 2016 13:07, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > Would you suggest Frescobaldi is *not* a big improvement in the User
> > Interface for Lilypond development?
>
> No, it isn't.  It is a big improvement for *using* lilypond (well, for
> all those guys and ladies who like IDEs), but for lilypond
> *development* you certainly don't need it.
>
> Werner

For that, you want Visual Studio...

Chris ;)
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 27 April 2016 at 19:25, Anthonys Lists  wrote:
>
> And the reality is, most people HERE, including the most important ones! use 
> simple, plain-text, email clients.
> There's a reason why Outlook Lusers are not welcome on most mailing lists, 
> and that's because the result is incomprehensible, pretty fast!
>
> Why is it that you get so many idiots who think that "ooh, shiny" is the same 
> as "new, improved".
> Lilypond is not aimed at the "ooh shiny" brigade, so if you want to be part 
> of that, please go somewhere else ...

Respectfully, I disagree. Having a shiny AND functional tool (no smut
here, I'm British) is perfectly possible, and wanting to use one
doesn't make you a magpie. It's snobbery -- you might say 'inverted'
snobbery -- to suggest so.

"Shiny" isn't necessarily "improved" but they're not mutually
exclusive. Would you suggest Frescobaldi is *not* a big improvement in
the User Interface for Lilypond development?

Chris

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 28 Apr 2016 13:07, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > Would you suggest Frescobaldi is *not* a big improvement in the User
> > Interface for Lilypond development?
>
> No, it isn't.  It is a big improvement for *using* lilypond (well, for
> all those guys and ladies who like IDEs), but for lilypond
> *development* you certainly don't need it.
>
> Werner

Subtle point well made.

Cheers! Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 29 April 2016 at 11:20, Andrew Bernard  wrote:
>
> Since this is the longest thread in recent memory - interesting
> because it is a meta-thread really - I wonder if we should consider
> using some forum type software for lilypond matters?

There's some Lilypond questions on the tex StackExchange forum, and you'll
find some on the StackOverflow too. But that is a *very* good
alternative medium for what we do here. It's also easily searchable
when you're looking for answers (better than the mailing lists).

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 29 April 2016 at 11:59, Johan Vromans  wrote:
>
> I have a very strong preference for one single place where all information
> lives. And I'm very happy with this mailing list.

Yes, although I personally find StackOverflow a far better way of
asking, answering and recalling questions, there's a heap of history
here that's very valuable.

> The last time I tried to ask a question on StackWhatever I was (un)kindly
> directed to another sub-StackWhatever, and then to another, and to another,
> so I just gave up.

Well, From reading StackOverflow a **lot** for work purposes, that's
usually because the question's in the wrong forum (or at least someone
thinks it is).

One downside to SO is that there are people who take great pleasure in
closing questions that "aren't a proper question", and so on. It's
better than the traditional kind of forum for coding questions (which
is 95% of this list). Whether it's better than a mailing list is a
different argument.

Whilst a Lilypond SO forum would be more publicly available than this
list, it wouldn't be as technically accessible to all concerned
(particularly the terminal window fans! :-) ).

However, I think it could only make Lilypond more accessible to the
general user. Does anyone actively object to the idea of having one?

cheers,

Chris

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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 27 Apr 2016 12:40 pm, "N. Andrew Walsh"  wrote:
>>
>> In german we have a saying:
>> "Leute fresst Scheisse. Millionen Fliegen können nicht irren."
>
>  Now I'm going to start an argument about your deplorable capitulation to
the masses by abandoning the venerable "ß".

What character set is this in?
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

...to be clear

I understand not everyone uses the same tools and we have different needs.
The thing that tends to rile me is the tone of the complaints.

When it's a legitimate matter of doing things to cooperate with list
software, that's absolutely reasonable. When it's somebody's deeply held
and arbitrary personal belief that top posting is ungodly and a scourge,
that's completely different.

Cheers. Chris


On 27 Apr 2016 12:13 pm, "Chris Yate"
<chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>

> >

>
> On 27 Apr 2016 12:04, "Andrew Bernard" <andrew.bern...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Chris,
> >
> > Although I started this thread, it was purely because David Wright had
mentioned the difficulty to another user, as he had to me. I am not the one
complaining! Wanting to be considerate of all folks on the list I took some
effort to configure my Outlook in Office 365 to produce the correct output
for HTML and plain text email with internet quoting style replies. It can
certainly be done. There is no reason to ask people to stop using Outlook.
What has changed is that its current default behaviour is the opposite of
the past, and I was attempting to alert people to that. Even I was unaware.
>
> I absolutely blame Microsoft for that... It's confusing and overly
difficult. The issue I've had is when working with people that use default
settings, using "text only" (which seemed to be the only way to permanently
achieve "traditional" quoting, at least in the past) is a big problem.
>
> > As to plain text readers, it is a perfectly valid and viable choice. I
know that David Wright uses Mutt which is a very capable and effective UNIX
mail client. I am pretty sure that David Kastrup uses Emacs for email as he
has mentioned issues relating to the way images are included in emails in
the list which my impact emacs users. For people working in a technical
environment on a UNIX platform using a principally text based workflow,
text based email clients can be very effective and very efficient. There is
no sense in which they are outdated. So there are at least two and likely
many more significant contributors to the community using plain text
toolchains.
>
> Yes, of course it's a valid choice. And I recognise it's a particular
issue for people using Accessibility tools. But if you think it's remotely
"normal" to use emacs for email... Well... ;-) it's certainly not the path
of least resistance, is it?
>
> > Urs Liska has written at length on the strengths and advantages of a
plain text toolchain for lilypond in particular. I can’t see how the
concept is old fashioned, or that the world has ‘moved on’. When
intensively developing in a text based toolchain, plain text mail clients
can make a lot of sense.
>
> > In my opinion, internet etiquette would suggest that one be considerate
of the community of mailing list users, and try to accomodate everyone as
best one can. I can’t see why this is not desirable. Or perhaps I am
completely obsolete, and etiquette in general is now considered old
fashioned.
> > Andrew
> >
>
> With all due respect, considerate is as considerate does. Shouting and
screaming because you use some obscure tool that doesn't work the way 99%
of the internet messaging tools in use work, and expect people to be
accommodating of you, isn't considerate.
>
> Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

> The list is plain text only. So if you use a mailer like Outlook and your
default is to send HTML format mail,
> you need to configure Outlook to reply to email in the format in which it
was sent, that is, here, plain text.
> Then list users will get properly formatted plain text replies with
internet style ‘>’ quoting. I am pretty sure
> Outlook used to do this by default, but now it does not, and needs to be
set up to do so.

In my experience it is well-nigh impossible to make Outlook behave like
that without screwing up the way it works* for "normal" email. It's better
to just stop using Outlook. I find Gmail is generally sane, but it
encourages things like inlining images (which I've been told off about here
in the past).

On the other hand, if one is still using Pine for reading email, I think
it's their own fault if they can't read a message. The world has moved on,
and so should our tools.

Chris

* (which in itself is fundamentally broken and confusing)
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 27 Apr 2016 12:04, "Andrew Bernard"  wrote:
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Although I started this thread, it was purely because David Wright had
mentioned the difficulty to another user, as he had to me. I am not the one
complaining! Wanting to be considerate of all folks on the list I took some
effort to configure my Outlook in Office 365 to produce the correct output
for HTML and plain text email with internet quoting style replies. It can
certainly be done. There is no reason to ask people to stop using Outlook.
What has changed is that its current default behaviour is the opposite of
the past, and I was attempting to alert people to that. Even I was unaware.

I absolutely blame Microsoft for that... It's confusing and overly
difficult. The issue I've had is when working with people that use default
settings, using "text only" (which seemed to be the only way to permanently
achieve "traditional" quoting, at least in the past) is a big problem.

> As to plain text readers, it is a perfectly valid and viable choice. I
know that David Wright uses Mutt which is a very capable and effective UNIX
mail client. I am pretty sure that David Kastrup uses Emacs for email as he
has mentioned issues relating to the way images are included in emails in
the list which my impact emacs users. For people working in a technical
environment on a UNIX platform using a principally text based workflow,
text based email clients can be very effective and very efficient. There is
no sense in which they are outdated. So there are at least two and likely
many more significant contributors to the community using plain text
toolchains.

Yes, of course it's a valid choice. And I recognise it's a particular issue
for people using Accessibility tools. But if you think it's remotely
"normal" to use emacs for email... Well... ;-) it's certainly not the path
of least resistance, is it?

> Urs Liska has written at length on the strengths and advantages of a
plain text toolchain for lilypond in particular. I can’t see how the
concept is old fashioned, or that the world has ‘moved on’. When
intensively developing in a text based toolchain, plain text mail clients
can make a lot of sense.

> In my opinion, internet etiquette would suggest that one be considerate
of the community of mailing list users, and try to accomodate everyone as
best one can. I can’t see why this is not desirable. Or perhaps I am
completely obsolete, and etiquette in general is now considered old
fashioned.
> Andrew
>

With all due respect, considerate is as considerate does. Shouting and
screaming because you use some obscure tool that doesn't work the way 99%
of the internet messaging tools in use work, and expect people to be
accommodating of you, isn't considerate.

Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

> The reality is that the world, given the ubiquity of broadband and
graphical interfaces, has moved on from plain text.
> It is no longer the standard and has not been for a decade or more- most
Internet users have, I suspect, no knowledge
> of this old standard any longer.  Expecting others to accommodate what is
now an out of date standard will simply
> continue to create issues.  It's like expecting web developers to
accommodate lynx in creating Web pages- probably
> not going to happen very often.
>
> One can choose to use text-only software but at this point we are
responsible for our own problems if we do.
> The world has changed and left us  behind.

I agree, 400%! But realise this is a mailing list run on ancient "mailman"
software, which doesn't cope well with the HTML format when things are
quoted. You should always try not to use fancy features like colour and
font-styles, which are likely not to work for most users and especially not
in the digests and list history. But the slow internet connection issue is
not really a problem for emails, even at the snail-like speed of 1.6GBs.

To be honest, I'd suggest you ignore the people that whinge about HTML
emails, top-posting, etc. For the 20-something years I've been using the
internet there's always been pedantic arses on mailing lists that would
rather beat people up about the format of emails and people's grammar and
spelling than answer the damn question.

Chris
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Re: [OT] sorry for the spam

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 11 May 2016 at 08:39 Johan Vromans  wrote:

> > There are a few websites that
> > provide strong password generators that make pretty much uncrackable
> > passwords.
>
>
Password Security:
https://xkcd.com/936/
 ;-)

There's no point having passwords that you can't remember; in an office
situation it leads to writing them down which is a worse risk; and IMHO,
it's very unlikely that anyone will actually "crack" them anyway.

More likely they'll get a keylogger installed on your PC and steal the
passwords that way. Or get you via a phishing scam. As for email spoofing,
as others have said, it's very easy to fake the "from" address.

Chris
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Re: Replying to posts

[Chris Yate]

On 29 April 2016 at 22:06, David Bellows  wrote:
>. I know a lot of people avoid Reddit, and for very good reasons,

I think it's almost as bad a time-sink as TVTropes. Actually, Stack
sites can be too.

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Re: London-Heathrow

[Chris Yate]

On 4 May 2016 at 15:25, Wols Lists  wrote:
> If you just want to do some sightseeing, I'd suggest getting the
> Picadilly to Leicester Square (50 mins). That's in the middle of Soho,
> or China Town. Head south to the river, and it takes you to Trafalgar
> Square, Charing Cross Road, St Martin in the Fields, that sort of area.
> From Trafalgar Square you can head down to Westminster and the Houses of
> Parliament. (Then you can catch the Jubilee to Green Park and Picadilly
> back to Heathrow.)
>
> As an alternative, get off at Green Park and walk down past the Palace.
> And all the places I've suggested are some distance from the City of
> London :-)
>
> You'll need an Oyster Card (a smart-card that lets you use the transport
> system), and there'll be details on the tfl website. I'm sure me and/or
> other Londoners will chime in if you want to know any more.
>

You can buy the Oyster Card at most ticket machines. There's a £5
deposit that's refundable, and you load it with cash.

But you DON'T want an Oyster for your purposes. Get a Zone 1-2 Day
Travelcard plus the return from Heathrow. Unless you're staying for a
few days refunding the card is probably going to be a hassle.

If you do go to Trafalgar Square*, there's the National Gallery and
Portrait Gallery too, and both aree free to visit IIRC (you're
encouraged to leave a donation).

If you like museums there's some good ones out towards South
Kensington (Science, Natural History, Victoria and Albert, etc.).

 Chris

* (tube stations either Trafalgar Sq itself, Charing Cross, or
Embankment will do... depending where you're coming from).

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Re: London-Heathrow

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 4 May 2016 at 19:35 Wols Lists  wrote:

>
> And leaves you in Paddington? Okay, there's still a lot in the area, but
> it's not exactly the most touristic bit there. I don't know that area
> that well, you've got, what, Little Venice, Regent's Park, Madame Tussauds?


No, well I could recommend a good pub near Paddington
http://www.mitrelancastergate.com/ -- but in general it's not that great an
area. Quite a few dodgy massage parlours, if that's your thing :-/

So if you do plan to use the tube, there's a general rule of thumb for how
long it takes:
- Allow ten minutes for your journey
- PLUS two minutes for each stop the train makes between the start and
finish of your travel
- PLUS five minutes every time you need to change trains

I also doubt check-in will take 2hrs but Heathrow is a big airport so of
course you need to leave enough time to get to your gate, even if the
customs/security queue is quick.

Chris
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Re: I am not top posting

[Chris Yate]

Hi Robert,

Out of interest, what interface are you using?

Chris

On Sun, 24 Jul 2016 at 14:17 Robert Edge 
wrote:

> Thank you, that is precisely what was happening.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 24, 2016 at 2:49 AM, Nathan Ho  wrote:
>
>> On 2016-07-23 21:05, Robert Edge wrote:
>>
>>> I have no idea why, but this interface won't let me ask a question.  It
>>> says
>>> I am top posting.
>>>
>>> I am not top posting.  I have not quoted anything.
>>>
>>> How do I send a message to this list?
>>>
>>
>> Sometimes if you have ">" symbols in LilyPond code, the list gets
>> confused. If that happens, put this at the top of the message:
>>
>> I'm not top posting.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Nathan
>>
>
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Re: bis

[Chris Yate]

Erik,

Do you want it to reproduce that in Midi, or just create the appropriate
markup?

Could you create a mockup of what you want and post it (I'm sure it's
possible if not quite easy to create the output). It's not a style of
repeats I've ever seen.

Chris


On Mon, 25 Jul 2016 at 00:24  wrote:

> Hi List,
>
> Does Lilypond have a built-in way of making "bis" repeats? I.e. a
> horizontal bracket over one or a few measures with the word "bis",
> indicating that the section is to be played twice.
>
> Regards
> Erik
>
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Re: Easy way to switch off transpositions

[Chris Yate]

Hi all,

It seems it's been a year since I looked at this problem, and I've just
figured out some kind of solution.

Applying the "optionalTranspose" function (see below) to each voice allows
me to globally switch all transposition on and off, so as to achieve either
a transposed or concert pitch score. This is really useful when dealing
with brass band music, as a quick check of pitches without mental
transposition.

I can define something like

bflatBassMusic = {
 \key g \major
  a b c d e
  }

bflatBassVoice = {
 % stuff
 \optionalTranspose treble bass bis c'' \relative c
  {
\bflatBassMusic
  }
}

Question: In order to avoid an "unbound variable" error, I have to define
the switch variable "transposing-score" ahead of including the
"optionalTranspose.lyi" file that contains my function.

This isn't very tidy. Is there a cleaner way of creating a "switch"
variable, or perhaps to detect the unbound variable as being a null value?
Or to define it above the function definition and let me reset it later in
the code, perhaps in a globals = {... } block?

I'd also appreciate any other suggestions for improvement of this code. I
think it is a useful enough thing to go on the LSR if it is perhaps refined
a little.

Thanks in advance,

Chris


-
#(define transposing-score #f)

optionalTranspose =
#(define-music-function (parser location transposing-clef concert-clef from
to music)
  ( string? string? ly:pitch? ly:pitch? ly:music?)
  (if (eq? #t transposing-score)
   #{
 \clef #transposing-clef
 \transpose #from #to #music
   #}
#{
  \clef #concert-clef
 #music
   #}
   )
  )
-


On Mon, 13 Jul 2015 at 00:14 David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:

> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > On 12 July 2015 at 23:02, David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > I find it would be very convenient every now and again to be able to
> >> change
> >> > a score to be non-transposing -- in order to easily check pitches etc.
> >> >
> >> > Any better approaches?
> >>
> >> Well, the Midi should be fine already, so you need this just for
> >> proofreading.  And for that, you should be able to just transpose back
> >> again.
> >>
> >> Another possibility is working with music quotes: those are always in
> >> concert pitch.
> >
> > Ah -- applying the inverse transposition on each voice, in the concert
> > pitch score?  Of course! Yes, I think that would work, will give it a go.
>
> Getting the Midi transpositions out will likely work in 2.19.24 by using
> the redefinition
>
> transposition = \tag per-instrument \transposition \etc
>
> in your general includes and then using
>
> \removeTag per-instrument ...
>
> on the music expressions in the partitura.  The syntactic sugar \etc is
> issue 4487 and will likely appear in origin/master within a week.
>
> --
> David Kastrup
>
\version "2.19.35"

#(define transposing-score #f)

optionalTranspose =
#(define-music-function (parser location transposing-clef concert-clef from to music)
  ( string? string? ly:pitch? ly:pitch? ly:music?)
  (if (eq? #t transposing-score)
   #{
 \clef #transposing-clef
 \transpose #from #to #music
   #}
#{
  \clef #concert-clef
 #music
   #}
   )
  )

\optionalTranspose treble bass bis c'' \relative c { a b c d e }

#(define transposing-score #t)

\optionalTranspose treble bass bes c'' \relative c { a b c d e }

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Re: Section repeat

[Chris Yate]

On 2 Feb 2017 5:00 p.m., "Hans Åberg" <haber...@telia.com> wrote:


> On 2 Feb 2017, at 17:52, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Did you mean, how to achieve it in Lilypond, or what is the best
engraving practice?
>
> The latter.
>
> I'd write and expect to read numbered horizontal brackets for each
alternative, and expect a repeat symbol at the end of any section that
needed it.
>
> Of course you might put labelling like "1, 3", "2", "4" as required.

Yes, that is one. Another might be to indicate that the whole section is to
be repeated by some mark at the beginning like "2x", or perhaps Dal Segno
marks.


It depends how long the section is. D.S. marks are typically confusing for
short sections. "3x" still requires the repeat bar lines
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Re: Section repeat

[Chris Yate]

Did you mean, how to achieve it in Lilypond, or what is the best engraving
practice?


On 2 Feb 2017 15:18, "Hans Åberg"  wrote:

> When the whole section is repeated when it has alternatives, how is that
> normally engraved? Specifically, the section has two alternatives, but is
> repeated in full. One way is to use Score.repeatCommands for alternatives
> markup "1. 3" resp "2. 4", but then the "2." does not have a repeat. One
> can of course write four alternatives, but I was looking for something more
> compact.
>
>
>
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Re: Section repeat

[Chris Yate]

On 2 Feb 2017 16:49, "Hans Åberg" <haber...@telia.com> wrote:


> On 2 Feb 2017, at 17:09, Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did you mean, how to achieve it in Lilypond, or what is the best
engraving practice?

The latter.


I'd write and expect to read numbered horizontal brackets for each
alternative, and expect a repeat symbol at the end of any section that
needed it.

Of course you might put labelling like "1, 3", "2", "4" as required.

Chris
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Re: Baritone and treble clef

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 14 Feb 2017 at 12:18 David Sumbler  wrote:

>
> > You are mistaken.
> Well, there you are then - I said I might be mistaken, and I was right!
>

Always nice to be proven correct
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 11:58 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> >> However, you have found a bug I think, since it doesn't seem to
> >> work correctly for your case, eliminating dots on the wrong side of
> >> the chord.
> >
> > Also, it’s clearly wrong to have dots in two ‘columns’. They look
> > like double-dotted notes.
>
> Please have a closer look!  The lower chords in the first bar have a
> `4..' rhythm, the upper ones have `4.'.
> Werner
>

I've just rendered that example (below), and the first chord has the
double-dot the _space_below_ the "f4.." note. Which is almost certainly
wrong behaviour :(

Chris

ex.from the chord-dot regression:

\version "2.17.16"

\header {
  texidoc =
"The column of dots on a chord is limited to the height
of the chord plus @code{chord-dots-limit} staff-positions."
}

\layout{ ragged-right = ##t }

\new Staff \transpose c c' {
  \override Staff.DotColumn.chord-dots-limit = #1
  <<
{ 4. r8 4. r8 } \\
{ f4.. r16 4.. r16}
  >>
}
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 14:55 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > Here's some test cases. I doubt this is the best place to post them
> > (bugs list?) but they're relevant to the conversation.
>
> Thanks!  However, your PDF file was not in sync with the input file;
> I've taken the opportunity to clean up the file and to add some `OK'
> and `FAIL' strings.  Please check.

Werner
>

Thanks - this is clearer. (and yes, there was a mistake in the final set
(cut and paste issue) with the unnecessary dot on B not A).

Did you intentionally mark those examples with unnecessary dots as "OK",
rather than "FAIL"? In my opinion, they should probably be failure cases.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 15:18 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 14:55 Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> > Here's some test cases. I doubt this is the best place to post them
>> > (bugs list?) but they're relevant to the conversation.
>>
>> Thanks!  However, your PDF file was not in sync with the input file;
>> I've taken the opportunity to clean up the file and to add some `OK'
>> and `FAIL' strings.  Please check.
>
> Werner
>>
>
> Thanks - this is clearer. (and yes, there was a mistake in the final set
> (cut and paste issue) with the unnecessary dot on B not A).
>
> Did you intentionally mark those examples with unnecessary dots as "OK",
> rather than "FAIL"? In my opinion, they should probably be failure cases.
>
> Chris
>

Errata: The
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 15:20 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 15:18 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 14 Sep 2016 at 14:55 Werner LEMBERG <w...@gnu.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> > Here's some test cases. I doubt this is the best place to post them
>>> > (bugs list?) but they're relevant to the conversation.
>>>
>>> Thanks!  However, your PDF file was not in sync with the input file;
>>> I've taken the opportunity to clean up the file and to add some `OK'
>>> and `FAIL' strings.  Please check.
>>
>> Werner
>>>
>>
>> Thanks - this is clearer. (and yes, there was a mistake in the final set
>> (cut and paste issue) with the unnecessary dot on B not A).
>>
>> Did you intentionally mark those examples with unnecessary dots as "OK",
>> rather than "FAIL"? In my opinion, they should probably be failure cases.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>
> Errata: The
>

Apologies, sent in error:

The "Extension above 4-note line top cluster with a 3rd" examples for
dot-limits 1,2 should also have "unnecessary dot on B space".

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 at 18:53 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>> However, you have found a bug I think, since it doesn't seem to work
>> correctly for your case, eliminating dots on the wrong side of the
>> chord
>>
>
This may be related (or fixed by?)

https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/2201/
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 at 06:24 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

>
> > The issue occurs when writing closely spaced chords with an
> > augmentation dot in the rhythm. Dots are placed only on spaces
> > (which we should expect), but in certain very easy to reproduce
> > conditions, the dot appears in an unexpected place.
>
> Cf. `regression/chord-dots.ly'; this is controlled by the
> `chord-dots-limit' property.
>
> However, you have found a bug I think, since it doesn't seem to work
> correctly for your case, eliminating dots on the wrong side of the
> chord.
>
>
> Werner
>

Thanks Werner. That's potentially a useful workaround. But the default
behaviour is obviously broken. There's no way I should see a dot placed on
the space above or below a note on a space -- obviously notes on a line are
a different matter.  As far as I can tell the default should be never to
place the dot more than one staff position away from the top or bottom note
of a chord.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Tue, 13 Sep 2016 at 19:55 Werner LEMBERG  wrote:

> It's issue 3179
>
>   https://sourceforge.net/p/testlilyissues/issues/3179/
>
> and commit dfff5d3d1a1001f65d1f7183837f56ccd64fb15a
>
>
> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/lilypond.git/commit/?id=dfff5d3d1a1001f65d1f7183837f56ccd64fb15a
>
> > There's no way I should see a dot placed on the space above or below
> > a note on a space -- obviously notes on a line are a different
> > matter.  As far as I can tell the default should be never to place
> > the dot more than one staff position away from the top or bottom
> > note of a chord.
>
> Hmm.  For some reasons the default value of `chord-dots-limit' is set
> to 3.  I can't remember why Keith has decided to use this number, but
> I would rather change the default to value 0.
>
> Werner
>

Zero dosn't an ideal choice in the situations I've been testing; I think 1
is safer.

e.g. here misses a dot on the space above g'
```
\version "2.19.45"
\new Staff {
   \override Staff.DotColumn.chord-dots-limit = 0
   < b d' e' f' g' >2.
}
```
This chord needs a setting of 1.

This example even worse (actually taken from the piano part of my
composition, which inspired the problem:
```
\version "2.19.45"
\new Staff {
   \override Staff.DotColumn.chord-dots-limit = 0
   \relative c'{   2. }
}
```
With dots limit 0 the a (treble clef 2nd space) gets no dot. With the
default chord-dots-limit = 3 there's a dot on the B- and G-spaces below
treble clef.

It's easy to produce a really horrible chord that confuses things
completely, and having two voices is by far the best way -- this I implied
by reference to the other issue on sourceforge about dot positioning around
shared vertical beams. Sensible writing would separate the two voices
horizontally for clarity, and that's how they should be dotted. (If one
ever came across such a pathological case in the wild).

But with a single voice it should be possible to come up with conclusive
test cases for every possibility (ignoring chromatic clusters like `< c cis
d dis e f  >`, which in any case aren't typeset very well by standard
methods).  I'd be happy to try to come up with the test cases, but
understanding and bug-fixing Scheme code gives me a headache ;-)

Could someone that owns a copy of Gould chip in with a "best practice"
recommendation? Once the maths bit is specified it should be relatively
easy to code.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 14 Sep 2016 04:26, "Brian Barker" <b.m.bar...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> At 23:50 13/09/2016 +, Chris Yate wrote:
>>
>> Could someone that owns a copy of Gould chip in with a "best practice"
recommendation?
>
>
> I've not been following this thread in detail, so I'm not sure if this is
what you need. This from pages 55 and 56. (I'm aware the last sentence
contradicts the first.)
>
> Every notehead in a chord must take a duration dot. Vertically align the
dots after the chord.
> *Adjacent-note chords*
> When the upper note is on a line, the dot moves up to the next
stave-space, as usual. When the lower note is on a line, the dot drops to
the lower space.
> Each dot should have a stave-space to itself. This same spacing applies
to chords on ledger lines as well, where dots should not be bunched up just
because there are no stave lines to separate them into individual spaces.
> A dot may need to move a stave-space away from its notehead.
> Centre the dots on the chord, rather than placing them in one direction,
away from the chord.
> When a dot is forced to be two or more stave-spaces from the chord, its
function becomes less relevant. In such cases, use only as many dots as
cover the number of stave-spaces taken up by the chord.
>
> Her example of the last dictum has a chord of eight notes (spanning a
ninth) having a column of only five dots.
>
> Brian Barker

Perfect. Thanks. Although she said a dot may need to be moved a stave-space
away from its note, it typically looks wrong to me, and using only the
spaces occupied by the chord is right. However, that's why we have
\override directives...

One situation that apparently causes a "floating" dot is { d f fis },
assuming f and fis share a space. Since they are in the same staff position
it seems appropriate for them to share a dot.

The case of dotted chords coinciding in multiple voices probably has to be
treated separately. I think in that case the chords should move
horizontally to allow their dots to live next to the appropriate note heads
- but it is a different bug/feature.

Chris
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Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

Hi all,

I have only rarely typeset piano music in the past, which is probably why I
haven't come across this issue before.

The issue occurs when writing closely spaced chords with an augmentation
dot in the rhythm. Dots are placed only on spaces (which we should expect),
but in certain very easy to reproduce conditions, the dot appears in an
unexpected place.

\version "2.19.45"
\relative c' {
  < g c d e f>2. }

The attached image shows dots unexpectedly positioned on the A space and B
space below the staff. I'm not sure what the "correct" notation should be
in this situation, but writing by hand I would place dots on the spaces for
G, D and F.

Interestingly, I found a 4 year old Musescore bug report for this issue
which mentions Lilypond 2.15 having problems.

https://musescore.org/en/node/15434

We can readily reproduce a pathological case (image also attached).

\version "2.19.45"
\relative c' {
<<  < g c d e f>2. \\ < bes dis e fis >4. >>
}

The question for the list being, what workarounds are there for strangely
placed augmentation dots?  Perhaps suppressing the dots for certain notes?

Thanks in advance,

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 15 Sep 2016 14:27, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 9/14/16 9:05 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >Attached with some extra cases I'd forgotten about (the inverted versions
> >of the final 6.
>
> According to Gould, I believe that dots limit 3 is the correct setting.
>
> Case 1: Gould says that the dot in the A space is correct.  The only dots
> she removes are dots that are 2 staff spaces or more away from the chord
> (p. 56); the A space is only one staff space away.
>
> Case 2: Similarly, the B space dot is correct according to Gould.
>
> Case 9: Just as in case 2, the B space dot is correct.
>
> Case 10: The C space dot is correct according to Gould -- one staff space
> above chord.
>
> Case 12: See cases 2 and 9; B space dot is one staff space below chord
>
> Case 13: I am unsure about the G dot -- it's one and a half staff spaces
> below the chord, so by Gould's strict rule, it should be there, I guess.
> But I prefer it gone.
>
> Case 14: I'm not sure why you consider the A space dot unnecessary.
> According to Gould's rules, it should be there.
>
> Case 15: Same as case 14.
>
> Case 16: As in cases 2 and 9, Gould suggests the B space dot belongs.
>
> Case 17: Same as 16
>
> Case 18: Same as 16
>
> Case 19: Same as 16
>
> Case 20: Gould's rules say A space dot is correct.
>
> Case 21: Same as 20
>
> Case 23: Same as 16
>
> Case 24: Gould's rules say G space dot is correct.
>
> Case 25: Gould's rules say B space dot is correct.
>
> In short, dots limit 3 never fails according to Chris's rules, and appears
> to me to be exactly correct with respect to Gould's rules.  So I have a
> hard time seeing what the issue is.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl

Carl, the key is the last bit of Gould's text as quoted by Brian above:

"When a dot is forced to be two or more stave-spaces from the chord, its
function becomes less relevant. In such cases,* use only as many dots as
cover the number of stave-spaces taken up by the chord*."

In my 30-odd years experience of reading music I don't think I've ever seen
augmentation dots extending even a full space away from a chord (apart from
moving a half-step above or below a line-note).

On 15 Sep 2016 14:27, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:



On 9/14/16 9:05 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>Attached with some extra cases I'd forgotten about (the inverted versions
>of the final 6.

According to Gould, I believe that dots limit 3 is the correct setting.

Case 1: Gould says that the dot in the A space is correct.  The only dots
she removes are dots that are 2 staff spaces or more away from the chord
(p. 56); the A space is only one staff space away.

Case 2: Similarly, the B space dot is correct according to Gould.

Case 9: Just as in case 2, the B space dot is correct.

Case 10: The C space dot is correct according to Gould -- one staff space
above chord.

Case 12: See cases 2 and 9; B space dot is one staff space below chord

Case 13: I am unsure about the G dot -- it's one and a half staff spaces
below the chord, so by Gould's strict rule, it should be there, I guess.
But I prefer it gone.

Case 14: I'm not sure why you consider the A space dot unnecessary.
According to Gould's rules, it should be there.

Case 15: Same as case 14.

Case 16: As in cases 2 and 9, Gould suggests the B space dot belongs.

Case 17: Same as 16

Case 18: Same as 16

Case 19: Same as 16

Case 20: Gould's rules say A space dot is correct.

Case 21: Same as 20

Case 23: Same as 16

Case 24: Gould's rules say G space dot is correct.

Case 25: Gould's rules say B space dot is correct.

In short, dots limit 3 never fails according to Chris's rules, and appears
to me to be exactly correct with respect to Gould's rules.  So I have a
hard time seeing what the issue is.

Thanks,

Carl
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 14:36 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > According to Gould, I believe that dots limit 3 is the correct setting.
>

OK. On reflection, perhaps I can see your reasoning, although I disagree
that the current situation reliably produces the notation one would expect.
And it's insufficiently controllable.

In any case, I might argue "chord-dots-limit" isn't unambiguously explained

". Limits the column of dots on each chord to the height of the chord plus
chord-dots-limit staff-positions."

In situation 1 in my test cases, the height of the chord is 4
staff-positions... or is it 2 and a half staff-spaces?

Should I want in example 2, to have dots on the D, F, A spaces and not on
B, then chord-dots-limit=1 might be interpreted to suppress the dot that's
2 staff positions away from the chord (on B space) and place one 1 staff
position _above_ the chord, on A.  The dotsUp and dotsDown settings don't
appear to have any effect here.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 16:37 Carl Sorensen  wrote:That
certainly is strange.  I wonder why it drops to four dots instead of

> 5, given that there are 5 notes in the cluster.  And the G space dot would
> only be two staff positions away from the E.
>
> I'm looking into the code now.  I'll see if I can figure out what's going
> on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl
>

There appears to be a bias towards placing dots beneath the chord in
certain conditions.

Apparently there's an example in Gould of chords spanning a ninth, such as:

A)
\new Staff {
 \relative c' { 2. }
}
and
B)
\new Staff {
  \relative c' { 2. }
}

for A, dots limit 0 or 1 gives a sensible result with five dots, as does 4
or 5 with seven -- depending on your preference.

for B,  we need dots limit 3 to get six evenly spaced dots. Any higher than
4 and theres unnecessary dots.

Hopefully you'll find something :)
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

For the sake of argument, here's what Sibelius does in similar
circumstances, and which I think is right, and actually within the spirit
of Gould's coments.

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 17:33 Carl Sorensen  wrote:

>
> I note that sib1.png is exactly the same chord as in the Gould scan.  And
> it has two less dots than Gould shows.  So it's not consistent with Gould.
>

I'm not quite sure what she's showing in that example you scanned, but I
thought it was about centering the dots.

If the trim rule for Gould were "trim to the chord spaces if the dot
> spaces are two or more staff spaces larger than the chord spaces", then
> we'd get the Sibelius output.
>

If you could check what she shows for the 9th-spanned cluster chord (which
Brian mentioned above) -- Brian said she shows only five dots there. So
perhaps she's not self-consistent.


> The current logic doesn't reflect Gould's rules at all, as it only refers
> to the number of staff positions taken by the chord, not the number of
> staff spaces taken by the chord.  And Gould clearly considers staff spaces
> to be the important metric in her rules.
>

I think the trouble with Gould's rules is that they're inconsistent, or
could at least be interpreted in such a way.  She says to use dots only on
the spaces occupied by the chord, and yet says you MAY need to put a dot a
space or more away from the chord.


> So the challenge is to figure out a way to implement Gould's rules with
> some adjustable parameter that allow us to get Sibelius's rules.


At the very least, we should be able to decide in our own scores what logic
is used for dot placement :-)

Are you editing the code in dot-column.cc. or is there some Scheme code for
this too?

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Thu, 15 Sep 2016 at 15:22 Carl Sorensen <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:

>
>
> On 9/15/16 7:36 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Carl, the key is the last bit of Gould's text as quoted by Brian above:
> >"When a dot is forced to be two or more stave-spaces from the chord, its
> >function becomes less relevant. In such cases, use only as many dots as
> >cover the number of stave-spaces taken up by the chord."
> >In my 30-odd years experience of reading music I don't think I've ever
> >seen augmentation dots extending even a full space away from a chord
> >(apart from moving a half-step above or below a line-note).
>
> Please see attached scan from Gould.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Carl


Thanks -- but that example is about balancing the dots around a chord,
which I believe we're not disagreed about.  (This scanned example is
related her statement about not placing the dots in one direction).

And yet:
\relative c' { <a' b c d e>2. }
does not produce the output she suggests for this chord. I need
chord-dots-limit = 4 for that.
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

Oh yeah, these examples are a case in point! The first seems to suggest
dots should stay within the area of the chord, while the second suggests
it's ok to have dots extending the chord as long as they're balanced
vertically.

Fundamentally the only difference between these situations is the size of
the chord. I'm not yet convinced that Gould has a hard and fast rule.

It's probably irrelevant, but a very small sample of my musician friends
suggests that dots shouldn't be placed further away than the next space
above/below the top/bottom of the chord. When I posted a picture of the
five-note tone cluster with five dots, the overall reaction was "WTF?!
Yuck!". IMO that should tell us all we need to know...

But for the scope of this software, being able to easily get the result
*you* want is the important thing.

On 15 Sep 2016 23:43, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:

>
>
> On 9/15/16 4:15 PM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >Please note I'm working without her examples,  but I disagree about
> >[Lilypond's interpretation of] Gould's rules, because they appear to be
> >in contradiction with **every piece of published music I've ever seen**.
> >Given just her text, I think she has possibly not worded things as
> >clearly as possible. And if it is correct to have five dots on a chord
> >spanning a ninth == five spaces, then why is it incorrect to have three
> >dots for a chord spanning three spaces?
> >The place that her rules stop making sense is this inconsistency:
> >1. It's ok to have a dot a full two staff positions away from the top or
> >bottom of the chord.
> >2. BUT... if there's a dot that according to the rules turns up to be two
> >spaces away, don't place ANY notes outside the range of spaces occupied
> >by the chord *.
> >* spaces occupied by the chord includes the half space occupied by part
> >of a notehead on a line.
>
> But this "inconsistency" that you find, is exactly illustrated in her
> examples.  She shows *precisely* the behavior you find inconsistent as the
> recommended behavior. See Gould2.png.  Gould is silent on whether the
> spaces occupied by the chord includes the half-space or not, and none of
> her examples include a note that would use the half-space.  So I don't
> disagree with you.
>
> >I think what she actually meant, and basing this also on guides like the
> >ABRSM theory books, is
> >
> >- every note needs a dot, where possible
> >- notes on a line need their dot moving up or down to the nearest space
> >- sometimes the dot needs to shift away from its parent, and that's ok
> >within the compass of the chord
>
> In your example 14, with a dots limit of 3, the dot from the E moves to
> the F space, and the dot from the F moves to the A space (within the
> compass of the chord), and you consider the dot on the A space to be
> unnecessary.  So my interpretation of your personal preference is that
> you'd prefer to never have a dot moved more than one staff position away
> from its "home".
>
> Gould would put the dot in the A space, according to the written rules.
> You accept it, but believe it's unnecessary.  If it's unnecessary, I think
> we should leave it out, because it's just clutter.  I'm reading that if
> you had your preferred style, it would be left out.  And I think LilyPond
> should have some way to support your preferred style.
>
> >- dots two or more staff _positions_ (not staff _spaces_ as written) away
> >from the top or bottom of the chord look strange, so exclude those.
>
> Gould specifically shows dot patterns with dots two staff positions away
> from a note in a space.  I included them previously, and include them
> again here as gould1.png.
>
> Note that in gould2.png, the dots that would be only two staff positions
> (one space) away from the top and bottom of the chord *are* excluded, not
> just the one that is four positions (two spaces) away.
>
> I'm going to send you (by separate email) a scan of Gould's section on
> dotted notes.  I'd be happy to have you show me how I've misunderstood her
> rules (if in fact I have).  But I'm quite sure that I have them right
> (with the possible exception of the spaces occupied by the chord including
> the half-spaces of notes on the line).
>
> >
> >Pragmatically though, I strongly believe it's a mistake for Lilypond's
> >defaults to go against the grain of what most readers of music expect and
> >have learnt to expect, even if the holy grail appears to say it's "right".
>
> Counterexamples from high-quality hand-engraved music are certainly
> welcome.   Contrary rules from other notation experts (e.g. Ross

Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 15 Sep 2016 22:45, "Carl Sorensen" <c_soren...@byu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On 9/15/16 10:41 AM, "Chris Yate" <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:>
> >
> >I think the trouble with Gould's rules is that they're inconsistent, or
> >could at least be interpreted in such a way.  She says to use dots only
> >on the spaces occupied by the chord, and yet says you MAY need to put a
> >dot a space or more away from the chord.
>
> No, let me summarize Gould's rules.
>
> Rule 1: Every notehead in a chord must take a duration dot.
>
> Rule 2: Move dots away from a note head on a line by moving it either up
> or down (she has some guidelines for how to do this, but I'm skipping them
> right now)
>
> Rule 3: Every dot needs to have a staff space to itself.  This implies
> (although it's not explicitly stated, but it is shown) that you may need
> to move dots farther than one staff space away from the note head.
>
> Rule 4: Center the dots on the chord.  This fixes problems that may show
> up by applying rule 3.
>
> Rule 5: If one of the remaining dots is two or more staff spaces from the
> chord, the dot pattern is bad, so instead of having one dot per note head,
> just have one dot per staff space included in the chord.
>
> Every example she shows is consistent with these rules.  The examples you
> show from Sibelius are not consistent with these rules.  That doesn't make
> them wrong, just inconsistent with Gould.
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >At the very least, we should be able to decide in our own scores what
> >logic is used for dot placement :-)
>
> Yes.  Perhaps we could make a scheme callback for cleaning up dots.  And
> that could become a property of a DotColumn, and the user would be free to
> implement their own Scheme function for cleaning up the dots.
>
> >
> >
> >Are you editing the code in dot-column.cc. or is there some Scheme code
> >for this too?
>
> Just editing code in dot-column.cc.  No Scheme code anywhere that I can
> see.
>
> So what rules do you use to decide when a dot is necessary below the
> bottom note of a chord, above the top of a chord, or in the middle of a
> chord with an interval larger than a third?
>
> Looking at your statements in Dots.ly, I would infer the following rules:
>
>
> 1. Put dots next to note heads on staff spaces.
> 2. Put dots in the space above note heads on staff lines.  If the space is
> already taken, and the space below the note head is available, place the
> dot in the space below the note head.  If the space is already taken, and
> the space below the note head is taken as well, omit the dot.
>
>
> I think those two rules provide the dots that you have considered to be
> necessary in Dots.ly, without any of the dots you consider unnecessary.

Please note I'm working without her examples,  but I disagree about
[Lilypond's interpretation of] Gould's rules, because they appear to be in
contradiction with **every piece of published music I've ever seen**.

Given just her text, I think she has possibly not worded things as clearly
as possible. And if it is correct to have five dots on a chord spanning a
ninth == five spaces, then why is it incorrect to have three dots for a
chord spanning three spaces?

The place that her rules stop making sense is this inconsistency:

1. It's ok to have a dot a full two staff positions away from the top or
bottom of the chord.

2. BUT... if there's a dot that according to the rules turns up to be two
spaces away, don't place ANY notes outside the range of spaces occupied by
the chord *.

* spaces occupied by the chord includes the half space occupied by part of
a notehead on a line.

I think what she actually meant, and basing this also on guides like the
ABRSM theory books, is

- every note needs a dot, where possible
- notes on a line need their dot moving up or down to the nearest space
- sometimes the dot needs to shift away from its parent, and that's ok
within the compass of the chord
- dots two or more staff _positions_ (not staff _spaces_ as written) away
from the top or bottom of the chord look strange, so exclude those.

Pragmatically though, I strongly believe it's a mistake for Lilypond's
defaults to go against the grain of what most readers of music expect and
have learnt to expect, even if the holy grail appears to say it's "right".

Thanks, Chris
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Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

Hi all,

Apologies for the potentially "blindingly obvious" question, bu't having
read the devel webpages about compiling Lilypond for mingw/Windows, I'm
none the wiser.

I can compile for native linux using the gnu make (via the
smart-autoconf.sh script). However, I'm trying to track down a crash in
Windows, and according to the website/docs it's impossible to compile
natively* -- so need a cross-compile.

I note the existance of "GUB", but this appears to use the main repository
as source**. But obviously, I need to compile from my working copy after
I've put a bunch of tracing code in.

This document
http://www.gnu.org/software/lilypond/src/Developers/Packaging/windows.html
appears
to be out of date. I found "janneke"'s patches at
http://lilypond.org/people/janneke/software/cygwin/mknetrel/ but it's not
clear from where mknetrel itself should be obtained.

My dev environment is Ubuntu 16 (or 14). Any hints or tips or redirection
towards the relevant instructions would be welcome!

Chris

---

* assuming the statement about compiling natively under Windows _does_not_
refer to using mingw gnu make, rather than some other compiler...??

** I'm not sure about that; but in any case it fails at configuring
mingw::fontconfig so that may be the first problem to solve. Error below
---
.
configure: error: Package requirements (freetype2) were not met:

Package zlib was not found in the pkg-config search path.
Perhaps you should add the directory containing `zlib.pc'
to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
Package 'zlib', required by 'FreeType 2', not found

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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 19:34 David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:

> Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > Hi Phil,
> >
> > Sigh... Yes, that's basically the conclusion I'd already come to, but
> that
> > it seemed such a ludicrous state of affairs that _somebody_ must have a
> > better solution.
>
> If you can find _any_ free software project requiring a number of free
> software compile- and runtime dependencies that does not invest a really
> big amount of time into maintaining a separate Windows port, you might
> want to look how they are doing it.
>

Thanks David. If the answer to my question is "no, there's no other way",
that's still a useful answer! :)

To be fair, I think the projects that do work across many systems are
usually not using C++, but some other language that's more portable.
Probably something interpreted, or running on a VM.  And of course,
Lilypond has a bunch of dependencies, TexMf, Guile and the like, which may
be more of a portability problem than /our/ code.

In contrast, the LilyPond Windows releases appear at the same time as
> other releases and require no extra manual effort (until things go
> wrong, of course). That's pretty good, actually.


Agreed!

Not being able to do native/online compilations by anybody wanting to is
> bad.  Yes.  Fixes to GUB (possibly even just to its
> information/documentation, maybe it _can_ do it already) are of course
> welcome


GUB is a really good idea. But obviously it's not great having to compile
the whole thing to change a source repository... If its authors followed
the mentality of Gnu autoconf tools, you'd expect to be able to pass some
arguments in. I'll look into it a little.

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

Hi Phil,

Sigh... Yes, that's basically the conclusion I'd already come to, but that
it seemed such a ludicrous state of affairs that _somebody_ must have a
better solution.

I've just installed mingw on Ubuntu, which might possibly do the job...

At the moment my scores have a habit of crashing at line 1180 in
page-breaking.cc when an assertion is thrown; that only happens under
Windows. And I reckon I can now see why it hasn't been investigated
seriously by anyone!! (although it's possible it could be an issue with one
of Lilypond's library dependencies.).

It should not be so difficult to work on open source stuff on any platform.
And it's not Microsoft's fault, presumably a lack of demand... (I'm not
blaming anybody here, by the way.)  In terms of the time I've wasted, I'm
fairly seriously considering that I might buy Sibelius and be done
with it. Given
that most of my colleagues in music expect me to be able to send them .sib
files to share, it's probably inevitable. Shame.

Chris




On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 19:10 Phil Holmes <m...@philholmes.net> wrote:

> Gub uses http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/lilypond.git as its source.  I
> know of no way of changing that without a lot of effort changing its
> codebase.  I personally know of no simple way of cross-compiling LilyPond
> for Windows without using Gub as the tool.  However, you can (in principle)
> create your own branch on Savannah and use Gub to compile against that (see
> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/lilypond.git/log/?h=dev/philh for an
> example of something I'm trying to debug at present).  You'll need a big
> old machine or a lot of patience to get it working - I occasionally have
> compile time of the order of 24 hours on a Core i7 quad core system.
>
> HTH
>
> --
> Phil Holmes
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com>
> *To:* Lilypond-User Mailing List <lilypond-user@gnu.org>
> *Sent:* Monday, September 26, 2016 6:54 PM
> *Subject:* Question: Cross compilation
>
> Hi all,
>
> Apologies for the potentially "blindingly obvious" question, bu't having
> read the devel webpages about compiling Lilypond for mingw/Windows, I'm
> none the wiser.
>
> I can compile for native linux using the gnu make (via the
> smart-autoconf.sh script). However, I'm trying to track down a crash in
> Windows, and according to the website/docs it's impossible to compile
> natively* -- so need a cross-compile.
>
> I note the existance of "GUB", but this appears to use the main repository
> as source**. But obviously, I need to compile from my working copy after
> I've put a bunch of tracing code in.
>
> This document
> http://www.gnu.org/software/lilypond/src/Developers/Packaging/windows.html 
> appears
> to be out of date. I found "janneke"'s patches at
> http://lilypond.org/people/janneke/software/cygwin/mknetrel/ but it's not
> clear from where mknetrel itself should be obtained.
>
> My dev environment is Ubuntu 16 (or 14). Any hints or tips or redirection
> towards the relevant instructions would be welcome!
>
> Chris
>
> ---
>
> * assuming the statement about compiling natively under Windows _does_not_
> refer to using mingw gnu make, rather than some other compiler...??
>
> ** I'm not sure about that; but in any case it fails at configuring
> mingw::fontconfig so that may be the first problem to solve. Error below
> ---
> .
> configure: error: Package requirements (freetype2) were not met:
>
> Package zlib was not found in the pkg-config search path.
> Perhaps you should add the directory containing `zlib.pc'
> to the PKG_CONFIG_PATH environment variable
> Package 'zlib', required by 'FreeType 2', not found
> 
>
>
>
> --
>
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>
>
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On 26 Sep 2016 20:16, "Phil Holmes"  wrote:
>
> TBH, you'd probably find it far easier to install a Linux VM on your
Windows host, and compile the problematic score on that.  I've done both,
and what I suggest here is what I would do.

That's exactly what I've done - I do a lot of my day job with Virtual
Machines. But...
... I generally use Frescobaldi as an IDE for Lilypond work - and that
works very much better in Windows (better integration with midi, pdf viewer
as well as printers etc.), and there's available installers for the latest
versions. Ubuntu's packaged version is ancient, and the one I built has all
sorts of problems.

That said, it is almost certainly the path of least resistance to fix
Frescobaldi on Linux than fix Lilypond in Windows!!

> I also used Sibelius - for my college course.  I always now use LilyPond
in preference.

IMO, Lilypond produces somewhat better looking output (with at least a
little care), and as a software engineer I really rate being able to
source-control my files properly. Everything's in git...

Chris
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Re: Question: Cross compilation

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 23:05 Chris Yate <chrisy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2016 at 19:34 David Kastrup <d...@gnu.org> wrote:
>
>>
>> That's pretty good, actually.  Not being able to do native/online
>> compilations by anybody wanting to is bad.  Yes.  Fixes to GUB (possibly
>> even just to its information/documentation, maybe it _can_ do it
>> already) are of course welcome:
>
>
> David,
>
> At a brief look over GUB, the really big question in my mind is why on
> earth it seems to want to build *everything*. ...
>

All this said, it looks like the task of slimming it down for one's own
preferred build configurations (in my case, mingw builds, and with a custom
lilypond git repo) is simply a case of changing some definitions in the
Makefile(s).

That probably is not too troublesome for anyone that's confident to start
hacking something like Lilypond in the first place...

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On 18 Sep 2016 17:37, "Werner LEMBERG"  wrote:
>
>
> > OK, I have rewritten the code for augmentation dot positioning.
>
> Great, and thanks a lot!
>
> > Personally, I like the results of this code better than the Gould
> > recommendations.  I would use this code, and make the default value
> > of chord-dots-limit be 1.
>
> I agree.
>
> > I'm attaching a copy of Dots.pdf created with the new code.  I have
> > not updated any of the markups describing the results, because this
> > allows you to better see the differences, I think.
>
> This looks very good, but there are two glitches, namely 13b and 23b,
> which can't be right.  23c looks wrong, too.
>
>
> Werner

Hi Carl, thanks! I'll take a look later today. Would you be happy to send
me a patch for the current source code HEAD?  (Or just the modified file).

I was looking at the current code on Friday to try and understand it, so it
would be good to see what you've changed. Also to have a local build with
the fix in!!

Chris
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Re: Augmentation dot positioning

[Chris Yate]

On Mon, 19 Sep 2016 at 02:31 Carl Sorensen  wrote:

> On 9/18/16 4:00 PM, "Carl Sorensen"  wrote:
> >Chris,
> >
> >Here's a patch.  But as Werner pointed out, it's not quite done yet.  I
> >think I need to improve the badness scoring in order to get better
> >configurations from which to remove excess dots.
>
> There are two comments in the code that are wrong.
>

That's why I try to avoid writing _any_ comments in my coding ;)

As for the results, it seems there's some strange results with
chord-dots-limit = 0. #3 and #4 for example -- it seems it's ignoring notes
on a line.

Whilst I understand the zero in your new logic would strictly mean removing
those, I think the "dot distance" for a note on a line should be counted
from the adjacent space. Either that, or throw an exception on setting the
value to zero...?

There's another strange situation for dots-limit 0 in #9, where the D
inexplicably has no dot.

thanks!

Chris
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