[openhealth] Geneva Forum - Towards Global Access to Health

[Molly Cheah]

>
>
> *GENEVA** FORUM - TOWARDS GLOBAL ACCESS TO HEALTH - *
>
>  
>
> *August 30- September 1st, 2006*
>
> *International Conference Centre of Geneva, Switzerland*
>
>  
>
> Website: website: http://www.hcuge.ch/genevahealthforum
>
>  
>
> THEMES:
>
> Access to health systems, Access to drugs, vaccines & diagnosis, 
> Research & training, Communication and new technologies, International 
> mobility and Health, Humanitarian crisis and development, Civil 
> society and community based initiatives
>
>  
>
> On the occasion of the 150e anniversary of Geneva Hospital,the Geneva 
> University Hospitals and the Faculty of Medicine of the University of 
> Geneva organize jointly an international Forum entitled "Towards 
> Global Access to Health" in partnership with the major national and 
> international organizations of the health sector (including WHO, ICRC, 
> The Global Fund, GAVI, Global Forum for Health research) and with the 
> support of the Swiss Agency for Development and Cooperation and the 
> city of Geneva.
>
>  
>
> The Geneva Forum will provide a unique opportunity of an independent 
> approach for all participants to explore and suggest innovative 
> initiatives to improve access to health and care. It should lead to a 
> joint effort from all international organizations active in health and 
> humanitarian fields located in Geneva as well as representatives of 
> the civil society.
>
>  
>
> This Forum will consist of six plenary sessions, and several debates, 
> symposia, workshops, free communications and an exhibition space.
>
>  
>
> Five main tracks have been identified for the symposia and the workshops:
> I.Health systems and access,
> II.   Health and inequalities
> III.  Drugs, vaccines and diagnostics,
> IV. Civil society and social issues in health
>  V. Capacity building and partnerships
>
>  
>
> ABSTRACT SUBMISSION: 
> http://www.hcuge.ch/genevahealthforum/GeneralInstructions.html  
>
>  
>



 
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Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Fred Trotter]

I think what Will, Molly, Tim and others are suggesting is that we allow
Molly to register the organization were it is most convient for her, (since
she has been the one pushing for this) and then allowing the organization
itself to consider registering or not registering OSHCA in other places on
an as needed basis.

I see no reason why OSHCA cannot change its registration or duplicate it
registration much later in the process. Frankly as an organization OSCHA
will have lots to do before duplicating the structure of the organization
becomes important.

Ultimatley it is important to support those people who are working to get
OSCHA off the ground. Let them decide when and if to register in the US,
France, Canada or anywhere else. If you want to have influense on that
decision, then consider running for a position in OSCHA when the time comes
for that. That is really the appropriate way to get what you want. In the
mean time, the best way to hedge your bets for winning such an election is
to be as helpful to the process as possible. Please note that one helpful
thing to do in processes like this is simply to listen silently until they
ask for specific help...

-FT


--
Fred Trotter
SynSeer, Consultant
http://www.fredtrotter.com
http://www.synseer.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[David Forslund]

Tim.Churches wrote:
> David Forslund wrote:
> > Molly,
> >
> > Incorporating OSHCA in the US doesn't necessarily imply US domination. 
>
> No, but US citizens need to be sensitive to the negative feelings
> towards the US which are present and growing in many countries around
> the world. Whether this antipathy towards the US is justified depends a
> great deal on one's standpoint - and I don't think we should debate it
> here - but it definitely exists and is remarkably pervasive - in some
> countries it is the dominant attitude, in others, it is present in a
> sizeable minority of the population.
This certainly is too bad as the characterization of things in the US by 
the press outside
the US is certainly not very factual or unbiased. 
>
> Given these attitudes to the US, incorporation of an international
> organisation in the US may be perceived negatively by some would-be
> participants in OSHCA, and certainly by many potential funding or
> collaborating bodies, such as the WSIS. Thus it *is* a practical
> consideration.
What about unwarranted bias against the US that some organizations might 
have?
>
> > I did not hear an
> > answer to my question about the possible necessity of incorporating
> > OSHCA in multiple countries.
>
> Yes, that may be necessary, but OSHCA should cross that bridge if and
> when it comes to it. There is no need for immediate, simultaneous
> incorporation in many countries in the first instance. If the need for
> incorporation elsewhere becomes apparent, then the necessary steps can
> be taken. But let OSHCA walk before forcing it to run a cross-country 
> race.
It wasn't clear why it needs to be incorporated anywhere.  I thought 
Molly talked about "registration".
>
> > I didn't understand Tim C.'s comment about there not being freedom of
> > political expression in Malaysia.
>
> I was alluding to the case of Anwar Ibrahim - see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim - amongst others. But that
> was a while ago now, and Mahathir has retired. This happens in many
> democracies from time to time - see for example
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism
>
> > How does that fit with a form of democracy?  I just read this week in a
> > Australian paper about a government
> > official threatening to jail non-Muslims if they were "perceived" as
> > insulting Islam.  These types of things concern
> > me if an international body is to be organized in such a country.
> > Perhaps this information is totally erroneous?
>
> Such things are often misreported. However, OSHCA is unlikely to ever
> make insulting comments about Islam or any other religion for that
> matter. In fact, the only religious topics which might be discussed are
> emacs vs vi or Java vs Python or Ruby. Thus I can't see why such things
> are of concern with respect to where OSHCA is incorporated. Note that
> incorporation of OSHCA in Malaysia or anywhere else has no impact on
> your freedom of speech as an individual, even if you are also a member
> of OSHCA.
>
> Tim C
>
>
It isn't that OSHCA would deliberately do such things, but when the 
interpretation is by a government official
and an action is perceived to be offensive, it could run into trouble 
and have no recourse.  This would be
counterproductive to the advancement of OSHCA's principles.  I actually 
think that multiple organizations
that work together might be better, if people would have the energy to 
do so.  This is the same as the
organization mentioned as an example.   Open Source issues in the US may 
well be different than in other countries,
but we should all work together to promote the general cause, which 
OSHCA as presented could do.

Dave




 
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Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Molly Cheah]

Brian,
In not underestimating the importance of the Minoru mail archives, can 
these be saved into a hard disk (40 or 80 G), since this is too big for 
the yahoo archive limit? I already have some pledges of financial 
support privately from some members and we can afford to purchase this 
harddisk :). In the context of the overall planning for OSHCA's role in 
open source in health care vis-a-vis the MDGs, I've already communicated 
with the relevant UN agencies to request for support for OSHCA and its 
activities. There shouldn't be any problem getting this support since 
our vision and mission meet some of the WSIS agenda and commitments, 
besides being based in a developing country. We can discuss offline the 
details of costs etc.

Rgds,
Molly
Brian Bray wrote:

>There have been 12928 messages. At a rough guess, this would consume 
>most of the storage capacity at Yahoo to have in a searchable format. 
>Some form of protection for email addresses in the archive would need to 
>be in place to prevent mining and spam.
>
>The existing archive at mail-archive.com will, as far as I know, 
>continue to exist at least until the archive limit date. It goes back a 
>couple of years. The list was also archived at two or three other sites, 
>but I'm not sure if they are still operational.
>
>I suggest that we use the existing archive for the time being and see if 
>there is a need for older messages.
>
>-Brian
>
>Will Ross wrote:
>  
>
>>Brian,
>>
>>How large is the mail archive of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>>[wr]
>>
>>- - - - - - - -
>>
>>On Mar 29, 2006, at 4:42 AM, Bhaskar, KS wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Will --
>>>
>>>Any member of the list can post a compressed archive of the mails 
>>>in the
>>>Files area of http://yahoogroups.com/group/openhealth (in a
>>>non-proprietary format, of course!), but we have a limit of 20MB.  How
>>>big would an archive be?
>>>
>>>-- Bhaskar
>>>
>>>On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 06:42 -0600, Will Ross wrote:
>>>  
>>>
bhaskar,

do you think the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" archive will be too large to
post as a file at yahoogroups "openhealth"

[wr]


>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>[wr]
>>
>>- - - - - - - -
>>
>>will ross
>>project manager
>>mendocino informatics
>>216 west perkins street, suite 206
>>ukiah, california  95482  usa
>>707.272.7255 [voice]
>>707.462.5015 [fax]
>>www.minformatics.com
>>
>>- - - - - - - -
>>
>>"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
>> Sir Tim Berners-Lee
>>
>>- - - - - - - -
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>
>>*  Visit your group "openhealth
>>  " on the web.
>>   
>>*  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>  
>>   
>>*  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>  Service .
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>



 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Richard Schilling]

And let me clarify.  There is NO reason, in my mind, why we can't set up 
a U.S. component NOW and still have OSCHA based in Malaysia.

Richard



 
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Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Richard Schilling]

Like I said, Will, the protem committees have undermined themselves over 
the years.  No reflection on Molly.  Hopefully things will progress for 
you all now.

I'm not undermining Molly's work.  If anything Minoru's lack of 
initiative to create a stand alone organization and transfer the OSHCA 
name is what has undermined organizational development of OSHCA.

I was in this group in 2000, talking about organizing OSHCA, but left 
when I realized that formation of the group as a stand-alone entity was 
taking longer than necessary.  I had more productive things to worry about.

I cannot believe that there's no desire for a U.S. component!  You all 
are taking advantage of U.S. developed open source.  We're creating more 
open source on this continent than any other country!

I have enough open source software on my server to build the entire IT 
infrastructure of a small country - including Biosurveillance!  And if 
3rd world countries aren't able to get to it it's probably because 
groups like this haven't chosen to ally with U.S. based efforts.


Richard



Will Ross wrote:
> Richard,
> 
> As a newcomer to this list you have no basis for your observation.
> I've been participating since 2002, and I am a great admirer of  
> Molly's efforts.   Far from being undermined, I think Molly's Protem  
> Committee is rather clearly the only game in town.
> 
> Please figure out how to be a bit more constructive.   There is a lot  
> of real work to be done.
> 
> [wr]
> 
> - - - - - - - -
> 
> On Mar 29, 2006, at 2:02 AM, Richard Schilling wrote:
> 
> 
>>The protem committee taking four years to get this far is a pretty  
>>clear
>>indication that they've undermined themselves.
>>
>>
>>Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>Molly Cheah wrote:
>>
>>>Richard,
>>>I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the
>>>decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to
>>>resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our  
>>>efforts. I
>>>don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many  
>>>others,
>>>Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be
>>>chapters/branches etc formed later.
>>>
>>>The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken
>>>into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to
>>>you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions  
>>>may
>>>be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my  
>>>responsibility to
>>>the community.
>>>
>>>I did not think that my intention to update the community with
>>>information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's
>>>efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to
>>>acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on  
>>>behalf of
>>>the community.
>>>
>>>Molly
>>>Richard Schilling wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register  
siultaneously, and
choose the base to be anywhere.

Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just
representing FOSS industry interests?  Depending on the answer to  
that
here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now:

Trade association — Definition.

trade associations don't "do business" but exist to exert
influence on a market.  This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA
if the organization does not intend to own things like
copyrighted software.  Gets around the  international
intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA
as well.

"Trade association," as that term is used here
means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar
or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve
business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage
in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit
and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of
any member.


Non-Profit Corporation - Definition.

Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products
and services) and can also have an influencing effect.

A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a
corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in
which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its
directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state
law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act
(1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association,
school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer
service organization, professional association, research
institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being
formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not
automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status.
Nonprofits must ap

Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Joseph Dal Molin]

I checked mailarchive.com and it is still operational...but don't know 
how far back it goes.

Joseph

Brian Bray wrote:
> There have been 12928 messages. At a rough guess, this would consume
> most of the storage capacity at Yahoo to have in a searchable format.
> Some form of protection for email addresses in the archive would need to
> be in place to prevent mining and spam.
> 
> The existing archive at mail-archive.com will, as far as I know,
> continue to exist at least until the archive limit date. It goes back a
> couple of years. The list was also archived at two or three other sites,
> but I'm not sure if they are still operational.
> 
> I suggest that we use the existing archive for the time being and see if
> there is a need for older messages.
> 
> -Brian
> 


 
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Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Brian Bray]

There have been 12928 messages. At a rough guess, this would consume 
most of the storage capacity at Yahoo to have in a searchable format. 
Some form of protection for email addresses in the archive would need to 
be in place to prevent mining and spam.

The existing archive at mail-archive.com will, as far as I know, 
continue to exist at least until the archive limit date. It goes back a 
couple of years. The list was also archived at two or three other sites, 
but I'm not sure if they are still operational.

I suggest that we use the existing archive for the time being and see if 
there is a need for older messages.

-Brian

Will Ross wrote:
> Brian,
>
> How large is the mail archive of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> [wr]
>
> - - - - - - - -
>
> On Mar 29, 2006, at 4:42 AM, Bhaskar, KS wrote:
>
> > Will --
> >
> > Any member of the list can post a compressed archive of the mails 
> > in the
> > Files area of http://yahoogroups.com/group/openhealth (in a
> > non-proprietary format, of course!), but we have a limit of 20MB.  How
> > big would an archive be?
> >
> > -- Bhaskar
> >
> > On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 06:42 -0600, Will Ross wrote:
> >> bhaskar,
> >>
> >> do you think the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" archive will be too large to
> >> post as a file at yahoogroups "openhealth"
> >>
> >> [wr]
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [wr]
>
> - - - - - - - -
>
> will ross
> project manager
> mendocino informatics
> 216 west perkins street, suite 206
> ukiah, california  95482  usa
> 707.272.7255 [voice]
> 707.462.5015 [fax]
> www.minformatics.com
>
> - - - - - - - -
>
> "Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
>  Sir Tim Berners-Lee
>
> - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
>
> 
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
> *  Visit your group "openhealth
>   " on the web.
>
> *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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>
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>   Service .
>
>
> 
>



 
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Re: [openhealth] OSHCA web portal.

[Heitzso]

On a techie note, CivicSpace or some combination of Drupal and
modules may be useful.  CivicSpace is geared to support this
type of web portal.  It still takes futzing with, but comes with
a lot of functionality built in.  My biggest complaint is it doesn't
work with PHP 5 yet.
http://civicspacelabs.org/home/



>2. I can help with via free oshca.org hosting and building.
>
>3. has been done many times and suffers from maintenance issues 
>because it is tedious to do over many years and people do not update 
>their own project information much even if empowered to do so.
>
>4. and 5. I can provide the web resources to do it: Zope/Plone, MySQL, 
>Postgres but do not wish to actually do it myself. However, since it 
>would be a collaborative website from the get go, someone else can do 
>it without difficulty.
>
>-- IV
>
>  
>
>>2. Maintain OSHCA web-portal
>>3. Maintain database of open source health care softwares
>>4. Maintain database of open source programmers
>>5. Maintain database of individuals, non-profits and commercial
>>
>>
>enterprises supporting and maintaining open source health care 
>softwares
>  
>



 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Tim.Churches]

Thomas Beale wrote:
> Tim.Churches wrote:
>  > David Forslund wrote:
>  > > Molly,
>  > >
>  > > Incorporating OSHCA in the US doesn't necessarily imply US domination.
>  >
>  > No, but US citizens need to be sensitive to the negative feelings
>  > towards the US which are present and growing in many countries around
>  > the world. Whether this antipathy towards the US is justified depends a
>  > great deal on one's standpoint - and I don't think we should debate it
>  > here - but it definitely exists and is remarkably pervasive - in some
>  > countries it is the dominant attitude, in others, it is present in a
>  > sizeable minority of the population.
> Come on everyone, we need action not endless debate... There are some
> relatively simple things to be done, someone who currently has the
> energy and wherewithall to do it (Molly); we should be looking at the
> "least pain" route to getting the organisation going (which as far as I
> can tell is: set it up in Malaysia, in the first instance). We can't
> base that thinking on the complexities of geopolitics (and I am the
> first to agree that the world situation is a concern of the first order)...

Thomas, I think that it important to discuss this issue (where OSHCA is
to be incorporated in the first instance), up to a point. I don't think
that the debate that has occurred has delayed Molly's work on
incorporation - it is, to use a much abused term, orthogonal to that.

Also, OSHCA will, as an advocacy group with international scope, need to
interact with many different organisations, and here geo[socio]political
considerations do play a part. Far from merely being a convenient and
relatively cheap location to do business, incorporation of OSHCA in
Malaysia sends strong, positive signals to a wide range of people and
organisations in a way that incorporation in the US, Australia, Canada,
or the EU would not. The fact is that there is genuine concern in many
countries about US (and to a lesser but real extent, EU) cultural,
economic and technological (and, um, military) hegemony, influence or
encroachment. Thus there are strong benefits in OSHCA, as an
international organisation, having its incorporated base in Malaysia,
which: a) is a developing/transitional country: b) has a long history of
and reputation for non-alignment; c) has a reputation for promoting and
fostering the use and development of technology, especially information
technology, as a means of accelerating appropriate economic and social
development; d) is a secular, religiously-tolerant and -moderate state
which has an association with the Islamic faith. Some or all of these
these attributes are likely to matter to the people with whom OSHCA
wishes to engage (or ought to wish to engage) in developing and
transitional countries. Wayne is absolutely correct: the main game for
free open source health software is in the poorer majority of the world.
In rich, developed countries, open source software in health is
important, but realistically it is not going to become the dominant
source of deployed health information systems in those countries in the
next decade or two. But that is not the case in developing and
transitional countries, where FLOSS has the real potential to become a
or the major provider of health informatics infrastructure and systems.

So, Malaysia does matter, but yes, let's let Molly get on with it.

> However, OSHCA has a much more focussed agenda, a reasonably clear
> mission, and we need to be thinking about what comes after the
> organisation is running (hopefully a matter of weeks, not years!), not
> obsessing about where it should be incorporated, or the relative evils
> of Malaysian injustices v US injustices.

I think the point that I was attempting to make is that no country is
beyond criticism in some important respect, and thus there is no
"perfect" home base for OSHCA.

> The latter may be relevant to
> how we live our lives, but I really doubt that it has any practical
> impact on just getting the horse called "OSCHA" out the gate.

I disagree - as expounded above, I feel that place of incorporation will
have a bearing on teh success of OSHCA as an international adovocy body
for FLOSS in health.

> Our main
> strengths are the individuals here, not the countries they come from.

Sure, but external perceptions of OSHCA will not primarily based on the
personal characteristics of its members or Board. Perceptions will be
based on published documents and statements of principal, on the
countries of origin of its Board/steering committee and its members
(hence the desire to have one Board member of steering committee member
from each continent/region), and on the location of its home base.

> Many of us here have worked in some kind of advocate or champion mode in
> the e-Health arena; Molly is doing this right now - what she doesn't
> need is more obstacles and "buts" from the debating gallery; she needs
> support and resources.

Yup. And for many, many reasons, M

[openhealth] [Fwd: [CAnet - news] IEEE Workshop on Workflow for Scientific Applications]

[Joseph Dal Molin]

Thought folks might find this of interest.

Joseph

 Original Message 
Subject: [CAnet - news] IEEE Workshop on Workflow for Scientific 
Applications
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:19:22 -0500
From: Bill St.Arnaud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

For more information on this item please visit the CANARIE CA*net 4 Optical
Internet program web site at http://www.canarie.ca/canet4/library/list.html
---

[Workflows are an important new tool to allow scientists to construct
virtual laboratories and experiments. CANARIE's UCLP allows the researcher
to also treat the network as an element in the workflow composition - akin
to a wide area LabView (tm) linking together instruments, databases,
sensors, etc.  Thanks to Richard Ackerman for this pointer. -- BSA]

http://www-static.cc.gatech.edu/~cooperb/sciflow06/

IEEE Workshop on Workflow and Data Flow for Scientific Applications
(SciFlow 2006)
Atlanta, GA, April 8th 2006

Workshop scope
Today computational scientists across all disciplines create ever increasing
amounts of often highly complex data. Generated raw and derived data may
come from wet lab experiments, large-scale data-intensive and
compute-intensive simulations, or real-time observations e.g. from remote
sensors. Technical challenges include not only managing the volume of data,
but also the complexity of managing computations distributed over the grid.
In order to support scientists in their data management and analysis tasks,
scientific workflows have recently gained increased interest and momentum as
a unifying mechanism for handling scientific data. Scientific workflows pose
a unique set of challenges due to the special nature of scientific data and
the specific needs for large-scale data collection, querying and analysis.
The goal of this workshop is to foster a community of researchers advancing
the various technical aspects of scientific computing and workflow
management over grids. We invite contributions from researchers addressing
diverse aspects of this emerging area. The workshop will include regular and
short research papers and demonstrations. Position papers are also
encouraged to attract discussions on work in progress.
Topics of interest
We invite regular and short papers as well as demonstrations (accompanied by
descriptive papers) and position papers on relevant topics, including but
not limited to:

 * Data management challenges in scientific workflow systems
 * Scheduling, resource allocation, and planning for scientific workflow
systems
 * Distributed and Grid-based scientific workflow systems
 * Data-intensive, compute-intensive, metadata-intensive scientific
applications
 * Highly interactive scientific workflow systems
 * Problem-solving environments for scientific workflow systems
 * Data and workflow provenance in scientific workflow systems
 * Query processing over scientific streams
 * Data mining scientific streams
 * Caching of scientific datasets and streams
 * Semantics in scientific grids
 * Interactive and real time management of scientific data
 * Archiving science grid data
 * Information discovery in science grids
 * Case studies of science data grids
 * Data, Event, and Activity Modelling for eScience




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[openhealth] OSHCA web portal.

[Ignacio Valdes]

2. I can help with via free oshca.org hosting and building.

3. has been done many times and suffers from maintenance issues 
because it is tedious to do over many years and people do not update 
their own project information much even if empowered to do so.

4. and 5. I can provide the web resources to do it: Zope/Plone, MySQL, 
Postgres but do not wish to actually do it myself. However, since it 
would be a collaborative website from the get go, someone else can do 
it without difficulty.

-- IV

>2. Maintain OSHCA web-portal
>3. Maintain database of open source health care softwares
>4. Maintain database of open source programmers
>5. Maintain database of individuals, non-profits and commercial
enterprises supporting and maintaining open source health care 
softwares


 
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[openhealth] Re: OSHCA Incorporation

[Wayne WIlson]

Extract from Molly's summary of rationale:
>From: Molly Cheah <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Important announcement and oshca update
>
> ...I thought we were approaching this issue 
> (developing vs developed countries) from the funding perspectives (not 
> mentioning developing countries' perception and acceptance of developed 
> countries' agenda). Besides there are more needs by developing countries 
> for open source health care systems as a viable and sustainable 
> alternative which we hope OSHCA can play a significant role as a 
> non-profit, apolitical entity for maximum impact in health outcomes.
>   
As a long time supporter of open source in the academic realm and having 
participated in the past with international standards organizations, I 
have to agree with Molly here.  Incorporation in the developed world 
will send the wrong signals to some (not all, but some) and this effort 
should focus on maximizing  the vast wealth in talent and innovation 
that lies outside the US or EU boundaries.  The challenge for those of 
us in the US and EU is going to be to keep up with the momentum!  We 
have our own legacy entanglements, messy laws and regulations and some 
vastly powerful entities that have a stake in the outcomes.


 
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[openhealth] Names not related to Spinal Tap or anything like that...

[Will Ross]

Names Survey
- - - - - - - -
Please select the band name most consistent with the dignity of an  
alliance of professional open source health care software  
informaticists.

[1]  Molly and the Protems

[2]  Molly and the Second Coming

[3]  Molly and the Malaysians

[4]  Dr. Cheah's Traveling Medicine Show

[5]  The Protems

[6]  Molly and the Initiators

[7]  The Informatic People

[8]  The Antiproprietarians

[9]  The Fossies

[10]  The Flossies

etc.



[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california  95482  usa
707.272.7255 [voice]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

- - - - - - - -

"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
 Sir Tim Berners-Lee

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Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Will Ross]

Brian,

How large is the mail archive of [EMAIL PROTECTED]

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

On Mar 29, 2006, at 4:42 AM, Bhaskar, KS wrote:

> Will --
>
> Any member of the list can post a compressed archive of the mails  
> in the
> Files area of http://yahoogroups.com/group/openhealth (in a
> non-proprietary format, of course!), but we have a limit of 20MB.  How
> big would an archive be?
>
> -- Bhaskar
>
> On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 06:42 -0600, Will Ross wrote:
>> bhaskar,
>>
>> do you think the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" archive will be too large to
>> post as a file at yahoogroups "openhealth"
>>
>> [wr]
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california  95482  usa
707.272.7255 [voice]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

- - - - - - - -

"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
 Sir Tim Berners-Lee

- - - - - - - -





 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Thomas Beale]

Tim.Churches wrote:
> David Forslund wrote:
> > Molly,
> >
> > Incorporating OSHCA in the US doesn't necessarily imply US domination. 
>
> No, but US citizens need to be sensitive to the negative feelings
> towards the US which are present and growing in many countries around
> the world. Whether this antipathy towards the US is justified depends a
> great deal on one's standpoint - and I don't think we should debate it
> here - but it definitely exists and is remarkably pervasive - in some
> countries it is the dominant attitude, in others, it is present in a
> sizeable minority of the population.
Come on everyone, we need action not endless debate... There are some 
relatively simple things to be done, someone who currently has the 
energy and wherewithall to do it (Molly); we should be looking at the 
"least pain" route to getting the organisation going (which as far as I 
can tell is: set it up in Malaysia, in the first instance). We can't 
base that thinking on the complexities of geopolitics (and I am the 
first to agree that the world situation is a concern of the first order)...

However, OSHCA has a much more focussed agenda, a reasonably clear 
mission, and we need to be thinking about what comes after the 
organisation is running (hopefully a matter of weeks, not years!), not 
obsessing about where it should be incorporated, or the relative evils 
of Malaysian injustices v US injustices. The latter may be relevant to 
how we live our lives, but I really doubt that it has any practical 
impact on just getting the horse called "OSCHA" out the gate. Our main 
strengths are the individuals here, not the countries they come from.

Many of us here have worked in some kind of advocate or champion mode in 
the e-Health arena; Molly is doing this right now - what she doesn't 
need is more obstacles and "buts" from the debating gallery; she needs 
support and resources.

- thomas beale



 
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Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Will Ross]

bhaskar,

do you think the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" archive will be too large to  
post as a file at yahoogroups "openhealth"

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

On Mar 29, 2006, at 1:34 AM, Tim.Churches wrote:

> Brian Bray wrote:
>> Thanks for the welcome, Bhaskar, and also the warm welcome (in every
>> sense of the word) I've received from many others.
>>
>> Also, thank you for creating this list. The list software at
>> minoru-development.com was and is broken- you took the right step to
>> keep this incredible community conversation going.
>>
>> I have no intention of fixing the "old list." Having two lists is
>> confusing and creates the appearance of division where none exists.
>> Accordingly, I'll be closing down the openhealth mailing list on the
>> minoru site in about a week.
>
> Are there any archives of the old list which need to be preserved for
> posterity? Are they all available elsewhere? If not, I am sure Horst
> herb would be happy to host teh archives on his servers.
>
> Tim C
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california  95482  usa
707.272.7255 [voice]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

- - - - - - - -

"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
 Sir Tim Berners-Lee

- - - - - - - -





 
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Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Will Ross]

Richard,

As a newcomer to this list you have no basis for your observation.
I've been participating since 2002, and I am a great admirer of  
Molly's efforts.   Far from being undermined, I think Molly's Protem  
Committee is rather clearly the only game in town.

Please figure out how to be a bit more constructive.   There is a lot  
of real work to be done.

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

On Mar 29, 2006, at 2:02 AM, Richard Schilling wrote:

> The protem committee taking four years to get this far is a pretty  
> clear
> indication that they've undermined themselves.
>
>
> Richard
>
>
>
> Molly Cheah wrote:
>> Richard,
>> I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the
>> decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to
>> resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our  
>> efforts. I
>> don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many  
>> others,
>> Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be
>> chapters/branches etc formed later.
>>
>> The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken
>> into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to
>> you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions  
>> may
>> be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my  
>> responsibility to
>> the community.
>>
>> I did not think that my intention to update the community with
>> information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's
>> efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to
>> acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on  
>> behalf of
>> the community.
>>
>> Molly
>> Richard Schilling wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register  
>>> siultaneously, and
>>> choose the base to be anywhere.
>>>
>>> Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just
>>> representing FOSS industry interests?  Depending on the answer to  
>>> that
>>> here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now:
>>>
>>> Trade association — Definition.
>>>
>>> trade associations don't "do business" but exist to exert
>>> influence on a market.  This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA
>>> if the organization does not intend to own things like
>>> copyrighted software.  Gets around the  international
>>> intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> "Trade association," as that term is used here
>>> means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar
>>> or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve
>>> business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage
>>> in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit
>>> and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of
>>> any member.
>>>
>>>
>>> Non-Profit Corporation - Definition.
>>>
>>> Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products
>>> and services) and can also have an influencing effect.
>>>
>>> A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a
>>> corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in
>>> which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its
>>> directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state
>>> law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act
>>> (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association,
>>> school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer
>>> service organization, professional association, research
>>> institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being
>>> formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not
>>> automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status.
>>> Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and
>>> sometimes at the state level.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california  95482  usa
707.272.7255 [voice]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

- - - - - - - -

"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
 Sir Tim Berners-Lee

- - - - - - - -





 
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Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)

[Will Ross]

On Mar 28, 2006, at 10:51 PM, Richard Schilling wrote:

> I'm simply saying I'll do the work and give OSCHA a physical presence
> here, as long as I know there will be people there to sign up.  I  
> don't
> want to establish a U.S. presence for OSCHA that has no interest.
> Building up an OSCHA presence in the U.S. that spans political and
> international boundaries is vital.

Richard,

I don't see a need for a formal national OSCHA entity in the USA.   I  
think now is a time to allow Molly and the other initiators to focus  
on a successful relaunch of the international effort that is OSCHA.
I intend to let them get the international effort stable, and to  
assist as needed.

[wr]

- - - - - - - -

will ross
project manager
mendocino informatics
216 west perkins street, suite 206
ukiah, california  95482  usa
707.272.7255 [voice]
707.462.5015 [fax]
www.minformatics.com

- - - - - - - -

"Getting people to adopt common standards is impeded by patents."
 Sir Tim Berners-Lee

- - - - - - - -





 
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Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Bhaskar, KS]

Will --

Any member of the list can post a compressed archive of the mails in the
Files area of http://yahoogroups.com/group/openhealth (in a
non-proprietary format, of course!), but we have a limit of 20MB.  How
big would an archive be?

-- Bhaskar

On Wed, 2006-03-29 at 06:42 -0600, Will Ross wrote:
> bhaskar,
> 
> do you think the "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" archive will be too large to   
> post as a file at yahoogroups "openhealth"
> 
> [wr]


 
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Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Tim.Churches]

Richard Schilling wrote:
> The protem committee taking four years to get this far is a pretty clear 
> indication that they've undermined themselves.

No, Richard. There have been two, quite distinct pro tempore OSHCA
committees. The first one, of which I was a member, was working towards
incorporation of OSHCA in Canada, then Australia, then Canada again,
over the course of about 18 months or two years. Various people, whom I
shall not name, started to complain (probably with some justification)
about the slow progress (for part of which I was responsible), and
others began to see conspiracies and dictatorial tendencies in the way
OSHCA was being organised. Suffice to say that the barrage of criticism
resulted in a large proportion of the first pro temporore organising
committee resigning. Nothing then happened for at least a year, perhaps
18 months - there was no further discussion of OSHCA or its
incorporation. Then Molly, to her immense credit, decided to start
afresh - and that was only a month or two ago. So things are moving
pretty quickly for a disparate, international group of people in
different time zones and communicating only by email.

Tim C

> Molly Cheah wrote:
>> Richard,
>> I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the 
>> decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to 
>> resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our efforts. I 
>> don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many others, 
>> Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be 
>> chapters/branches etc formed later.
>>
>> The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken 
>> into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to 
>> you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions may 
>> be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my responsibility to 
>> the community.
>>
>> I did not think that my intention to update the community with 
>> information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's 
>> efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to 
>> acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on behalf of 
>> the community.
>>
>> Molly
>> Richard Schilling wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register siultaneously, and 
>>> choose the base to be anywhere.
>>>
>>> Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just 
>>> representing FOSS industry interests?  Depending on the answer to that 
>>> here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now:
>>>
>>> Trade association — Definition.
>>>
>>> trade associations don't "do business" but exist to exert
>>> influence on a market.  This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA
>>> if the organization does not intend to own things like
>>> copyrighted software.  Gets around the  international
>>> intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> "Trade association," as that term is used here
>>> means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar
>>> or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve
>>> business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage
>>> in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit
>>> and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of
>>> any member.
>>>
>>>
>>> Non-Profit Corporation - Definition.
>>>
>>> Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products
>>> and services) and can also have an influencing effect.
>>>
>>> A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a
>>> corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in
>>> which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its
>>> directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state
>>> law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act
>>> (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association,
>>> school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer
>>> service organization, professional association, research
>>> institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being
>>> formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not
>>> automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status.
>>> Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and
>>> sometimes at the state level.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 



 
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Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Molly Cheah]

It is obvious you had not been around the community and don't know what 
you're talking about. The idea to ressurrect OSHCA was mooted in 
November 2005 just before the WSIS in Tunis. This protem committee was 
formed earlier this month and announced to the community on 28/3/2006 in 
my e-mail titled "Important annoucement and oshca update". The mandate 
to ressurrect OSHCA was given in January 2006.

Molly

Richard Schilling wrote:

>The protem committee taking four years to get this far is a pretty clear 
>indication that they've undermined themselves.
>
>
>Richard
>
>
>
>Molly Cheah wrote:
>  
>
>>Richard,
>>I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the 
>>decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to 
>>resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our efforts. I 
>>don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many others, 
>>Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be 
>>chapters/branches etc formed later.
>>
>>The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken 
>>into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to 
>>you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions may 
>>be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my responsibility to 
>>the community.
>>
>>I did not think that my intention to update the community with 
>>information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's 
>>efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to 
>>acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on behalf of 
>>the community.
>>
>>Molly
>>Richard Schilling wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register siultaneously, and 
>>>choose the base to be anywhere.
>>>
>>>Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just 
>>>representing FOSS industry interests?  Depending on the answer to that 
>>>here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now:
>>>
>>>Trade association — Definition.
>>>
>>> trade associations don't "do business" but exist to exert
>>> influence on a market.  This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA
>>> if the organization does not intend to own things like
>>> copyrighted software.  Gets around the  international
>>> intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA
>>> as well.
>>>
>>> "Trade association," as that term is used here
>>> means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar
>>> or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve
>>> business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage
>>> in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit
>>> and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of
>>> any member.
>>>
>>>
>>>Non-Profit Corporation - Definition.
>>>
>>> Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products
>>> and services) and can also have an influencing effect.
>>>
>>> A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a
>>> corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in
>>> which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its
>>> directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state
>>> law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act
>>> (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association,
>>> school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer
>>> service organization, professional association, research
>>> institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being
>>> formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not
>>> automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status.
>>> Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and
>>> sometimes at the state level.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Tim.Churches]

David Forslund wrote:
> Molly,
> 
> Incorporating OSHCA in the US doesn't necessarily imply US domination.  

No, but US citizens need to be sensitive to the negative feelings
towards the US which are present and growing in many countries around
the world. Whether this antipathy towards the US is justified depends a
great deal on one's standpoint - and I don't think we should debate it
here - but it definitely exists and is remarkably pervasive - in some
countries it is the dominant attitude, in others, it is present in a
sizeable minority of the population.

Given these attitudes to the US, incorporation of an international
organisation in the US may be perceived negatively by some would-be
participants in OSHCA, and certainly by many potential funding or
collaborating bodies, such as the WSIS. Thus it *is* a practical
consideration.

> I did not hear an
> answer to my question about the possible necessity of incorporating
> OSHCA in multiple countries.

Yes, that may be necessary, but OSHCA should cross that bridge if and
when it comes to it. There is no need for immediate, simultaneous
incorporation in many countries in the first instance. If the need for
incorporation elsewhere becomes apparent, then the necessary steps can
be taken. But let OSHCA walk before forcing it to run a cross-country race.

> I didn't understand Tim C.'s comment about there not being freedom of
> political expression in Malaysia.

I was alluding to the case of Anwar Ibrahim - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_Ibrahim - amongst others. But that
was a while ago now, and Mahathir has retired. This happens in many
democracies from time to time - see for example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mccarthyism

> How does that fit with a form of democracy?  I just read this week in a
> Australian paper about a government
> official threatening to jail non-Muslims if they were "perceived" as
> insulting Islam.  These types of things concern
> me if an international body is to be organized in such a country. 
> Perhaps this information is totally erroneous?

Such things are often misreported. However, OSHCA is unlikely to ever
make insulting comments about Islam or any other religion for that
matter. In fact, the only religious topics which might be discussed are
emacs vs vi or Java vs Python or Ruby. Thus I can't see why such things
are of concern with respect to where OSHCA is incorporated. Note that
incorporation of OSHCA in Malaysia or anywhere else has no impact on
your freedom of speech as an individual, even if you are also a member
of OSHCA.

Tim C



 
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Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Richard Schilling]

The protem committee taking four years to get this far is a pretty clear 
indication that they've undermined themselves.


Richard



Molly Cheah wrote:
> Richard,
> I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the 
> decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to 
> resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our efforts. I 
> don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many others, 
> Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be 
> chapters/branches etc formed later.
> 
> The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken 
> into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to 
> you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions may 
> be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my responsibility to 
> the community.
> 
> I did not think that my intention to update the community with 
> information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's 
> efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to 
> acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on behalf of 
> the community.
> 
> Molly
> Richard Schilling wrote:
> 
> 
>>Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register siultaneously, and 
>>choose the base to be anywhere.
>>
>>Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just 
>>representing FOSS industry interests?  Depending on the answer to that 
>>here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now:
>>
>>Trade association — Definition.
>>
>>  trade associations don't "do business" but exist to exert
>>  influence on a market.  This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA
>>  if the organization does not intend to own things like
>>  copyrighted software.  Gets around the  international
>>  intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA
>>  as well.
>>
>>  "Trade association," as that term is used here
>>  means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar
>>  or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve
>>  business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage
>>  in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit
>>  and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of
>>  any member.
>>
>>
>>Non-Profit Corporation - Definition.
>>
>>  Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products
>>  and services) and can also have an influencing effect.
>>
>>  A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a
>>  corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in
>>  which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its
>>  directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state
>>  law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act
>>  (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association,
>>  school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer
>>  service organization, professional association, research
>>  institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being
>>  formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not
>>  automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status.
>>  Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and
>>  sometimes at the state level.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 



 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Tim.Churches]

Dr Molly Cheah wrote:
>  >Is OSCHA a religious organization or an independent world-wide
>  >technological organization accessible to everyone regardless of
>  >religious conviction?  (Tim, you're not making any sense with your "star
>  >and crescent" comment).
>  > 
>  >
> I think Tim was just being cheeky :).

Yes, just stirring the pot... sorry, it is my nature to do so.

>  >And, what I'm suggesting is that you start with a U.S. incorporation.
>  >Then incorporate elsewhere.  What is below is point/counter-point.  And,
>  >it's not talking about suitability based on religion, "the people" or
>  >any other facet other than legal.
>  >
> But why start of with a US incorporation? Past discussions clearly
> indicate that the membership "do not" want a US dominated OSHCA.
> 
>  >So, let me boil this down to simple terms:
>  >
>  >1. Legal protections: U.S. incorporation means that as a U.S. company,
>  >OSHCA has the same rights as an individual.  Intellectual property
>  >rights and agreements are upheld.  In other countries, especially ones
>  >with new regimes, this might not be the case.  U.S. subsidiaries running
>  >in non-U.S. countries would work just fine and be stabilized by the U.S.
>  >based parent.
>  > 
>  >
> I don't agree that US incorporation offers more legal protection than
> Malaysia which are also signatories to International Conventions and
> legal frameworks and taking them seriously. Under the law OSHCA will be
> a legal entity with rights to all provisions under the relevent acts.
> Incidently Malaysia is not a new regime and we got our independence from
> the British in 1957. Before that we were colonized by the Portugese,
> then the Dutch and then the British.
> Stabilized by US based parent? How so?
> 
>  >2. Repatriation of capital: As OSCHA earns fees, receives donations,
>  >pays taxes, etc... it's much more straightforward in the U.S. I believe.
>  >  The tax burden on a non-profit like OSHCA would be minimal or
>  >non-existent.
>  > 
>  >
> I plan to apply for tax-exempt status, in addition to the non-profit
> status which will automatically be given. That means that donors to
> OSHCA do not pay taxation on their donations to OSHCA and OSHCA does not
> have to pay tax on the donations received. There is no control on the
> repatriation of monies earned in Malaysia.
> 
>  >3. Political stability: In politically less-stable countries (e.g.
>  >Malaysia, Taiwan, Mexico, South Africa, Haiti, etc..) when regimes
>  >change so does the law - you can find your corporation and all its
>  >assets suddenly owned by someone else.
>  > 
>  >
> I didn't know that Malaysia is politically unstable and I don't know of
> any assets that had been suddenly owned by someone else. But I'm amazed
> by your perceptions of Malaysia. I would be happy to play host and
> invite you to come and see Malaysia.

If anything, the political system in Malaysia might be a little bit too
stable... Um, no.

>  >4. Government funding: incorporating in a country because "it looks like
>  >there's government funding" is a bad idea. You need a much harder offer
>  >than that.  What are the incentive programs, specifically that the other
>  >government offers?  Who, specifically in the government, is offering them?
>  > 
>  >
> I've not mentioned about Govt funding. I did say that it would be easier
> to get funding for OSHCA activities from the likes of organisations like
> UNDP, IDRC, CIDA, SIDA etc. Maybe I failed to "market" or "hard sell"
> Malaysia for our purpose. As for incentive programmes and other Govt
> offers, it is obvious that you are not aware of the Malaysian Govt's
> Policy on Open Source, incentives related to ICT companies and projects.
> There are too many to enumerate here. I did a google search on
> Malaysia's incentives for ICT and they're all there. However, after all
> these efforts I wonder if the members of OSHCA are capable to make a
> difference to push the open source agenda in health care especially in
> the developing world. I must quality that this is my main interest - the
> developing world that needs help.

I think it is fair to say that Molly has comprehensively demolished
Richard's arguments and hopefully dispelled a little of Richard's
ignorance about Malaysia (and the world in general beyond the US).

Richard, feel free to incorporate whatever organisation that you like in
the US, as long as you don't call it OSHCA, because that name and meme
has been well and truly claimed by a long-standing international group
of like-minded people who are now about to embark on a second (and
certain to be successful this time) attempt at incorporation - in
Malaysia in the first instances, through the good offices of Molly, and
elsewhere if and when the need arises. But baby steps first: incorporate
in Malaysia.

Please proceed as planned, Molly.

Tim C

>  >Molly Cheah wrote:
>  > 
>  >
>  >>I was born in Malaysia and lived through the period where we obtained
>  >>independance from t

Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Thomas Beale]

Richard Schilling wrote:
> OSHCA will need to be incorporated in every country it has a presence.
> It's a question of where you start, really.  The origin of incorporation
> also affects how that company can behave when operating overseas.
wellmaybe. We incorporated openEHR Foundation in the UK only, mainly 
for reasons of convenience. That was some years ago; we haven't needed 
to incorporate anywhere. Is OSHCA going to be opening offices for 
trading around the world?

- thomas



 
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Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update

[Thomas Beale]

Molly Cheah wrote:
> David,
> There "is" and not "may be" because there are legal frameworks (acts of
> parliament) that governs corporations, civil societies, unions etc. If
> OSHCA is to be my organisation, I would have it up in 3 days (not one as
> suggested by Richard). My timeline of 3 months is not due to "technical
> grounds" for setting it up but rather to allow members and the protem
> committee to discuss and accept what should go into the incorporation
> papers. The procedures are laid out and transparent.
> Even the choice of incorporation in a developing country went through
> discussions on this list and there were no objections. I picked Malaysia
> because I'm from here and I had undertaken to do the job. If anyone else
> would like to volunteer to do the job please by all means.
>
I don't think the country of incorporation matters that much to the 
outcomes of OSHCA's operations; for the reasons Molly states, Malaysia 
is as good as any. I really doubt whether any of the legal differences 
between corporate entities in various countries will ever come into play 
in reality; the only one I can think of that might be interesting is its 
tax status as a non-profit.

What might matter one day is trademarking. If there is a brand name that 
has to be protected around the world, or in some parts of it, then that 
name(s) has to be trademarked in various countries. I don't know that 
OSHCA has (or is) a brandname that needs to be trademarked at this stage.

- thomas beale



 
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Re: [openhealth] Openhealth mailing list

[Tim.Churches]

Brian Bray wrote:
> Thanks for the welcome, Bhaskar, and also the warm welcome (in every
> sense of the word) I've received from many others.
> 
> Also, thank you for creating this list. The list software at
> minoru-development.com was and is broken- you took the right step to
> keep this incredible community conversation going.
> 
> I have no intention of fixing the "old list." Having two lists is
> confusing and creates the appearance of division where none exists.
> Accordingly, I'll be closing down the openhealth mailing list on the
> minoru site in about a week.

Are there any archives of the old list which need to be preserved for
posterity? Are they all available elsewhere? If not, I am sure Horst
herb would be happy to host teh archives on his servers.

Tim C


 
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U.S. issues - Australian FTA (was Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update))

[Richard Schilling]

Molly Cheah wrote:
> See this. http://www.samba.org/~tridge/fta_statement.html

I read this.  It's an opinion piece, not a legal analysis.  And quite 
frankly it's  well, written by a confused person.


This FTA protects your open source software, regardless of whether or 
not you wrote it for personal or commercial use.

So, let me point out a few things here. This FTA means that when you 
write your open source software in Australia, the U.S. recognizes you as 
the author.  You have all the legal means to prevent companies in the 
U.S. from violating your license.

It also:

* requires the U.S. to give Australians the same intellectual property 
protection it gives its own citizens.  Austrilia gives U.S. citizens the 
same protections it gives its own citizens.  If you write a piece of 
software in Australia you can prevent me from selling it without your 
permission.  You can force Microsoft to obey the GNU license on your 
software even if you're a teenager in the Australian outback.

* requires the U.S. to recognize Australian trademarks just as it does 
U.S. trademarks.  Therefore, the trademark of open source software 
written in Australia can't be used by say, IBM without permission.

* requires the availability of digital registration services.  Great for 
everyone.

* means, if I understand it, that you don't actually have to register 
your intellectual property with the registration service to be yours. 
You own your software, trademark or other intellectual property when you 
create it.

* requires the U.S. to allow Australians to challenge the use of a 
trademark or copyright by a U.S. company.  And visa-versa.

.. I could go on, but this is a long law...

Tridgell's complaint about "doublespeak" is also seriously misguided. 
The treaty aims to bring under its protection any kind of intellectual 
property, even if it's created for commercial or non-commercial 
purposes.  And it aims to prosecute violtaions whether or not the 
violations were for commercial or non-commercial purposes.

Open Source software created by a person would receive that protection.

That's a good thing.


Richard


 
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Re: [openhealth] sumultaneous registrations and registration form

[Molly Cheah]

Richard,
I would appreciate it if you allow the protem committee to make the 
decisions on OSHCA since the community has given us the mandate to 
resurrect OSHCA. Otherwise I feel that you're undermining our efforts. I 
don't understand why suddenly you're in such a hurry. Like many others, 
Tim Cook, Bhaskar etc had expressed earlier there can be 
chapters/branches etc formed later.

The discussions and sentiments expressed here will certainly be taken 
into consideration by the protem committee. I would like to appeal to 
you not to complicate the matter further otherwise your intentions may 
be misconstrued. Please let me complete my job and my responsibility to 
the community.

I did not think that my intention to update the community with 
information would lead to a kind of upstaging the protem committee's 
efforts. If you proceed to register OSHCA it will be tantamount to 
acting in bad faith, as I had been negotiating with Brian on behalf of 
the community.

Molly
Richard Schilling wrote:

>Since OSCHA is an internationl body we can register siultaneously, and 
>choose the base to be anywhere.
>
>Is the incorporation in Malaysia going to be doing business or just 
>representing FOSS industry interests?  Depending on the answer to that 
>here are our choices here in the U.S. that I can pursue now:
>
>Trade association — Definition.
>
>   trade associations don't "do business" but exist to exert
>   influence on a market.  This seems to me the best fit for OSCHA
>   if the organization does not intend to own things like
>   copyrighted software.  Gets around the  international
>   intellectual property issues on software for OSCHA
>   as well.
>
>   "Trade association," as that term is used here
>   means a membership organization of persons engaging in a similar
>   or related line of commerce, organized to promote and improve
>   business conditions in that line of commerce and not to engage
>   in a regular business of a kind ordinarily carried on for profit
>   and for which no part of net earnings inures to the benefit of
>   any member.
>
>
>Non-Profit Corporation - Definition.
>
>   Non-Profit Corporations conduct business (e.g. provide products
>   and services) and can also have an influencing effect.
>
>   A nonprofit corporation is an organization formed as a
>   corporation for purposes other than generating a profit, and in
>   which no part of the organization's income is distributed to its
>   directors or officers. Nonprofits are formed pursuant to state
>   law, often under the Revised Model Non-Profit Corporation Act
>   (1986). A nonprofit can be a church or church association,
>   school, charity, medical provider, legal aid society, volunteer
>   service organization, professional association, research
>   institute, museum, or in some cases a sports association. Being
>   formed with the state as a nonprofit corporation does not
>   automatically provide an organization with tax-exempt status.
>   Nonprofits must apply for tax-exempt status at the federal and
>   sometimes at the state level.
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>



 
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Re: next steps. (was Re: [openhealth] Important announcement and oshca update)

[Molly Cheah]

See this. http://www.samba.org/~tridge/fta_statement.html

The US normally uses these Free Trade Agreements to backdoor their 
legislation into the legislation of the target nations. this has 
happened previously in Chile, Australia for starters with every nation 
who’s signed the FTA being subject to American legislation. somehow as a 
citizen of an independent nation, it is abhorrent that legislators in 
another country can decide what i should be doing in my country and 
depriving the legislators which we voted in the freedom to decide how to 
govern.

the FTA itself forces signatory countries to duplicate/mirror lots of 
american legislation to the detriment of the smaller countries, Malaysia 
included. my understanding of how this affects us is limited to 
intellectual property rights and the ICT industry, but i’m sure there’re 
other trade segments which are similarly affected.

And this is interesting... Unfortunately the US is turning its attention 
to Malaysia for its next FTA. Sri Lanka may be on the agenda, who knows.

>
>   As stated by Third World Network legal advisor Chee Yoke Ling,
>   TWN, CAP and SAM have been analyzing the FTAs already signed by
>   the US with several developing countries, and they are also
>   monitoring the controversial negotiations with Thailand that
>   have led to massive public protests and demonstrations in
>   Thailand because of the potential adverse impact of such a FTA.
>
>   At the forum on “The implications of the Malaysia-US FTA on
>   Malaysian Citizens” organized by the three organizations, many
>   concerns were raised at the discussion, including the impact of
>   reducing tariffs on sensitive products such as rice, giving US
>   investors the right to sue the Malaysian Government, changing
>   Malaysian intellectual property laws that would make medicines
>   very expensive and opening up vital sectors of our economy.
>
>   Malaysia and the US started preliminary discussions on the FTA
>   early this year. The pressure is on for the Malaysia-US FTA to
>   be signed before June 2007, as the Trade Promotion Authority
>   (TPA) which grants the US President a fast track authority
>   without going to Congress is to be dissolved on 1st July 2007.
>
Molly
Richard Schilling wrote:

>Nandalal Gunaratne wrote:
>
>  
>
>> Definitely no anti-US sentiments from here.
>> 
>> But we worry about the laws which stifle the development of lesser developed 
>> countires in their progress inICT.
>>
>>
>
>Really?  That amazes me. Alright, I'll play U.S. QnA session here.  Tell 
>me your concerns and I'll try to address them as they relate to OSCHA 
>operating internationally with members in the U.S.
>
>First off...
>
>Silly patents that have been applied for are irrelevant to OSCHA. 
>Membership in the WTO, as Malaysia has achieved, help protect OSCHA's 
>intellectual properties.
>
>If OSCHA is registered in the U.S. as a trade association all anyone has 
>to do is sign up.  It's that easy.
>
>If OSCHA is registered as a domestic, U.S. non-profit corporation all we 
>have to do is direct OSCHA resources to carry out its mission in other 
>countries.  OSCHA branches in other countries might have different 
>limitations and permissions on its activities.
>
>
>Richard
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>



 
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