subject:"\\\\\\\[TruthTalk\\\\\\\] New Subject\\\\\\\-AE"

We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I say 
that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is 
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to function on a 
par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I carry lots of 
material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?



- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.



From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled Lost Books 
of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as being true, 
but were not accepted by those who made the final decisions of what 
should and what should not be included in the holy writ.  I tried to find 
it--must still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I 
will give you chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes her 
as being very beautiful.

  Blainerb


  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back and 
refresh .


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one account. 
He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than 
Cain--until Able was removed, at least.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

See my response to CPL.

- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: December 10, 2005 22:42
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

That's interesting Lance!! If I do not soon find my copy I may buy
another from you? It is an excellent book!!
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/10/2005 12:17:59 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I SELL this book. It's excellent!

- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only
source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled
Lost Books of the Bible, in
which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not
accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what
should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must
still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you
chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and
describes her as being very beautiful.
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of
- why not go back and refresh
.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make
headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one
account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister
liked Able better than Cain--until Able
was"removed,"at least.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

So Satan told the Truth as far as "ye shall be as" But God left this info out, and did not tell them the "WHOLE TRUTH"?[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/9/2005 8:15:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:   The lie that Satan perpetrated in the garden of Eden to deceive Eve is still alive today in some cults..."and ye shall be as gods".Perry   
   Blainerb: "and ye shall be as the gods, knowing good and evil," was actually the truth--the lie was that they would not die. Satan often pairs the truth with a lie so as to give the lie credibility--politicians often do the same thing, as do Street Preachers :)  
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 Who's he?Apparentlt the guy who designed the stars on your TEMPLES!  No wonder there is the sign of Baphomet all over your temples as Joe was a Freemason.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  In a message dated 12/10/2005 12:24:09 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Iheard that there was abook explaining how the earth is the center of the UniverseIt probably has as much truth as your
 book.  If I give you chapter  verse out of this book? so what!Are Anton Laveys books good for your "spiritual Enlightenment"? Who's he?  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled Lost Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that
 are written as being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you chapter and verse.In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes her as being very beautiful.  Blainerb  
	
		Yahoo! Shopping 
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Judy Taylor




How amazing - This situation completely reverses 
everything
Woe until them that call evil 
goodandgoodevil; that put darkness for light, and light for 
darkness
that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!! (Isa 
5:20)

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 05:34:04 -0800 (PST) Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  So Satan told the Truth as far as "ye shall be as" 
  But God left this info out, and did not tell them the "WHOLE 
TRUTH"?
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  




In a message dated 12/9/2005 8:15:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The lie that Satan 
  perpetrated in the garden of Eden to deceive Eve is still alive today 
  in some cults..."and ye shall be as 
  gods".Perry


Blainerb: 
"and ye shall be as the gods, knowing good and evil," 
was actually the truth--the lie was that they 
would not die. Satan often pairs the truth with a lie so 
as to give the lie credibility--politicians often do the same thing, as do 
Street Preachers :)




  
  
  
  Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! 
  Shopping 
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Dean Moore









- Original Message - 
From: Kevin Deegan 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: 12/11/2005 8:34:12 AM 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

So Satan told the Truth as far as "ye shall be as" But God left this info out, and did not tell them the "WHOLE TRUTH"?
cd: They already new good due to God's presencein the garden- so their only gain was to know evil and they learned this after taking Satan adviceof sinning-as do Mormons love eating forbidding fruit so did AE. "Just a little lusting and all will be well as I am a spiritual man and cannot fall"- saith the fool in his heart-then speaks it with his mouth.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:





In a message dated 12/9/2005 8:15:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The lie that Satan perpetrated in the garden of Eden to deceive Eve is still alive today in some cults..."and ye shall be as gods".Perry


Blainerb: "and ye shall be as the gods, knowing good and evil," was actually the truth--the lie was that they would not die. Satan often pairs the truth with a lie so as to give the lie credibility--politicians often do the same thing, as do Street Preachers :)







Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Charles Perry Locke

Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to post a link 
to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I say 
that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is 
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to function on a 
par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I carry lots 
of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?

- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled Lost Books 
of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as being true, 
but were not accepted by those who made the final decisions of what 
should and what should not be included in the holy writ.  I tried to find 
it--must still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I 
will give you chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes 
her as being very beautiful.

  Blainerb

  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back 
and refresh .

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one account. 
He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than 
Cain--until Able was removed, at least.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Charles Perry Locke!!

I KNEW what you were asking!  Let go this anti-thingy Charles.

- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to post a 
link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I say 
that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is 
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to function on 
a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I carry 
lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?

- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled Lost 
Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as 
being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final decisions 
of what should and what should not be included in the holy writ.  I 
tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if 
I find it I will give you chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes 
her as being very beautiful.

  Blainerb

  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back 
and refresh .

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one 
account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able 
better than Cain--until Able was removed, at least.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Charles Perry Locke

But you see, lance, it is almost impossible to have a straight conversation 
with you. I ask a quaestion, you answer a different one. That is called 
beign OBTUSE. It does not lead to conversation, and tends to make one appear 
arrogant. All I want to do is get a link to your bookstore. And, what is an 
anti-thingy?




From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:44:47 -0500

Charles Perry Locke!!

I KNEW what you were asking!  Let go this anti-thingy Charles.


- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to post a 
link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.




From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I say 
that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is 
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to function on 
a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I carry 
lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?



- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.



From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled Lost 
Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as 
being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final decisions 
of what should and what should not be included in the holy writ.  I 
tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if 
I find it I will give you chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes 
her as being very beautiful.

  Blainerb


  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back 
and refresh .


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one 
account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able 
better than Cain--until Able was removed, at least.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

I believe you mean to use the word ABSTRUSE instead of OBTUSE do you not, 
Charles? How are you able to MODERATE when you misperceive so regularly?


As to the 'anti-thingy', Charles: I weary, even though I must say mea culpa, 
(1 Cor 2) of you, Dean, Kevin, Judy etc. always writing in the 'attack 
mode'.


PS:I don't have a link.


- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


But you see, lance, it is almost impossible to have a straight 
conversation with you. I ask a quaestion, you answer a different one. That 
is called beign OBTUSE. It does not lead to conversation, and tends to 
make one appear arrogant. All I want to do is get a link to your 
bookstore. And, what is an anti-thingy?




From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:44:47 -0500

Charles Perry Locke!!

I KNEW what you were asking!  Let go this anti-thingy Charles.


- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to post a 
link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.




From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I say 
that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is 
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to function 
on a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I 
carry lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?



- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.



From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the 
only source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled 
Lost Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written 
as being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final 
decisions of what should and what should not be included in the holy 
writ.  I tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when 
I moved--if I find it I will give you chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes 
her as being very beautiful.

  Blainerb


  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back 
and refresh .


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one 
account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able 
better than Cain--until Able was removed, at least.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have 
a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org


If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.





--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may

RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread ShieldsFamily

You are not, therefore, culturally relevant.  iz

-Original Message-


PS:I don't have a link. 


--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Judy Taylor






Perry in this case obtuse would probably be an 
improvement
I for one find the "abstruseness" since he likes that 
wordto be quite wearying.

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:15:00 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes: I believe you mean to use the word ABSTRUSE instead of OBTUSE do 
you  not,  Charles? How are you able to MODERATE when you 
misperceive so  regularly?  As to the 'anti-thingy', 
Charles: I weary, even though I must say  mea culpa,  (1 Cor 2) 
of you, Dean, Kevin, Judy etc. always writing in the  'attack  
mode'.  PS:I don't have a link.   - 
Original Message -  From: "Charles Perry Locke" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:49 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AEBut you see, lance, it is almost 
impossible to have a straight   conversation with you. I ask a 
quaestion, you answer a different  one. That   is called 
beign OBTUSE. It does not lead to conversation, and  tends to  
 make one appear arrogant. All I want to do is get a link to your  
 bookstore. And, what is an "anti-thingy"?   
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE Date: Sun, 
11 Dec 2005 09:44:47 -0500  Charles Perry 
Locke!!  I KNEW what you were asking! Let 
go this anti-thingy Charles.   
- Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke"  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 
New Subject-AE   Lance, 
I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to  "post a 
 link to your bookstore so we can check out your 
wares."   From: 
"Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE 
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500 
 We'd best be certain that we're 
speaking of the same book(s).  When I say  that 
it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This  is  
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to 
 function  on a par with Scripture. I apologize 
if I mislead anyone on  this. I  carry lots of 
material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who  wouldn't? 
  - Original 
Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke"  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25 Subject: 
Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE  
 Lance, post a link to your 
bookstore so we can check out your  wares. 
  
From: "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE 
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500 
 I SELL this book. It's 
excellent!  - Original Message 
-  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
 Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34 
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE  
  As you 
should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be  the  
 only source of spiritual enlightenment! 
:) I have a book  titled   
Lost Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are  written 
  as being true, but were not accepted by those 
who made the  final   decisions of what 
should and what should not be included in  the holy  
 writ. I tried to find it--must still be buried 
with stuff  from when   I moved--if I 
find it I will give you chapter and verse. 
 In the account it actually 
gives the sister's name, and  describes  
 her as being very beautiful. 
 Blainerb 
  
 In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. 
Mountain Standard  Time,   [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
 Blaine do you read the 
Bible?  It was not a 
coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not  go back  
 and refresh . 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 I think 
Eve had a passal of children, they just  didn't make  
 headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, 
according to  one   account. He was 
jealous of Able because the coveted sister  liked Able  
 better than Cain--until Able was "removed," at 
least.   
-- "Let your speech be 
always with grace, seasoned with salt, that  you may  
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 
4:6)  http://www.InnGlory.org 
 If you do not want to receive 
posts from this list, send an  email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If  you have  
a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
will be subscribed.  
  
-- "Let your speech be always 
with grace, seasoned with salt, that  you may  
know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org 
 If you do not want to receive posts 
from this list, send an  email to  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
you will be unsubscribed. If  you have a  
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he 
will be subscribed.   
-- &q

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Like this is just us..eh? We in the 'Great White North' , hosers all, salute 
you. with our beer and back bacon.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 10:21
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

You are not, therefore, culturally relevant.  iz

-Original Message-

PS:I don't have a link.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Charles Perry Locke



MW: obtuse: 2b : difficult to comprehend : not clear or precise in thought 
or expression

MW: abstruse: difficult to comprehend

Nope. I meant obtuse, not abstruse. What I was intending to say is that you 
do not approach questions from an acute angle. You most often respond to 
posts at a less than a direct angle, and have to play around with your own 
ideas about what others should be saying, or how they should be saying it 
instead of dealing directly (accutely) with what they have posted. It was a 
simple request, Lance, and a simple response would have done. IMO, this is 
not a sign of intelligence. It is a sign of arrogance and egocentrism. If 
you do not know what a poster is seeking, ask them. If you do, answer them 
directly. KISS.


Thanks for a straight answer to my original question about a website for 
your bookstore. It only took 4 posts to extract that simple answer from you.


As far as attack mode, please read my posts before you respond. Who have I 
attacked on this forum other than the promoters of mormon doctrine? (I am 
seeking a straight answer in one post...a difficult feat, I am sure, but IT 
CAN BE DONE!)


Perry



From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 10:15:00 -0500

I believe you mean to use the word ABSTRUSE instead of OBTUSE do you not, 
Charles? How are you able to MODERATE when you misperceive so regularly?


As to the 'anti-thingy', Charles: I weary, even though I must say mea 
culpa, (1 Cor 2) of you, Dean, Kevin, Judy etc. always writing in the 
'attack mode'.


PS:I don't have a link.


- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:49
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


But you see, lance, it is almost impossible to have a straight 
conversation with you. I ask a quaestion, you answer a different one. That 
is called beign OBTUSE. It does not lead to conversation, and tends to 
make one appear arrogant. All I want to do is get a link to your 
bookstore. And, what is an anti-thingy?




From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:44:47 -0500

Charles Perry Locke!!

I KNEW what you were asking!  Let go this anti-thingy Charles.


- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to post a 
link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.




From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I 
say that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is 
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to function 
on a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I 
carry lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who 
wouldn't?



- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.



From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the 
only source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled 
Lost Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written 
as being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final 
decisions of what should and what should not be included in the holy 
writ.  I tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when 
I moved--if I find it I will give you chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and 
describes her as being very beautiful.

  Blainerb


  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go 
back and refresh .


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one 
account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able 
better than Cain

RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread ShieldsFamily

Mozel Tov!

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Lance Muir
Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 9:33 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Like this is just us..eh? We in the 'Great White North' , hosers all, salute

you. with our beer and back bacon.

- Original Message - 
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 10:21
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 You are not, therefore, culturally relevant.  iz

 -Original Message-

 PS:I don't have a link.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Dean Moore

 [Original Message]
 From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 12/11/2005 10:21:58 AM
 Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 You are not, therefore, culturally relevant.  iz
cd: Did he say link or clue?

 -Original Message-

 PS:I don't have a link. 

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know 
how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

I said the former but meant both, Dean.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 11:58
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

[Original Message]
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 12/11/2005 10:21:58 AM
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

You are not, therefore, culturally relevant.  iz

cd: Did he say link or clue?

-Original Message-

PS:I don't have a link.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may

know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to

[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a 
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

YIKES!!! Ya know I never thunk of THAT!! No wonder income is so small. 
Thanks Dean.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 11:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

[Original Message]
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 12/11/2005 9:44:49 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Charles Perry Locke!!

I KNEW what you were asking!  Let go this anti-thingy Charles.

cd: His store must not be open to the public Charles.

- Original Message - 
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to post a
 link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I

say

that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is
particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to function

on

a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I carry
lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?

- Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
   - Original Message -
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
   Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
   Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

   As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the

only

 source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled Lost
 Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as
 being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final

decisions

 of what should and what should not be included in the holy writ.  I
 tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I

moved--if

 I find it I will give you chapter and verse.
 In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and

describes

 her as being very beautiful.
   Blainerb

   In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Blaine do you read the Bible?
 It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go

back

 and refresh .

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make
 headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one
 account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked

Able

 better than Cain--until Able was removed, at least.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you

may

know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have

a

friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have

a

friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have

a

 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may

know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to

[EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a
friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
[EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may 
know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) 
http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Dean Moore

 [Original Message]
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 12/11/2005 12:01:41 PM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 YIKES!!! Ya know I never thunk of THAT!! No wonder income is so small. 
 Thanks Dean.
cd: Just write All Canadians Welcome  on a sign and hang it on the door
while keeping silent-and your income will increase.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: December 11, 2005 11:56
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  [Original Message]
  From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Date: 12/11/2005 9:44:49 AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  Charles Perry Locke!!

  I KNEW what you were asking!  Let go this anti-thingy Charles.
  cd: His store must not be open to the public Charles.

  - Original Message - 
  From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

   Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to
post a
   link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

  From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
  Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

  We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I
  say
  that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is
  particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to
function
  on
  a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I
carry
  lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?

  - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

  From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
  Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

  I SELL this book. It's excellent!
 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the
  only
   source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled Lost
   Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written
as
   being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final
  decisions
   of what should and what should not be included in the holy writ. 
I
   tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I
  moved--if
   I find it I will give you chapter and verse.
   In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and
  describes
   her as being very beautiful.
 Blainerb

 In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time,
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
   Blaine do you read the Bible?
   It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go
  back
   and refresh .

   [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't
make
   headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one
   account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked
  Able
   better than Cain--until Able was removed, at least.

  --
  Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
  may
  know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
  http://www.InnGlory.org

  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you
have
  a
  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

  --
  Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may
  know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
  http://www.InnGlory.org

  If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you
have
  a
  friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

   --
   Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
may
   know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
   http://www.InnGlory.org

   If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you
have
  a
   friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
   [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

  --
  Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
  know how

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

'Silence' being the operative word, right? Well, of course, Lance. Do 
remember that the moderator. his own self, just issued a pronouncement as to 
your 'obtusiosity' or was it 'abstrusiosity'. Oh well, as Arch used to 
say,...whatever.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 12:23
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

[Original Message]
From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 12/11/2005 12:01:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

YIKES!!! Ya know I never thunk of THAT!! No wonder income is so small.
Thanks Dean.

cd: Just write All Canadians Welcome  on a sign and hang it on the door
while keeping silent-and your income will increase.

- Original Message - 
From: Dean Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 11, 2005 11:56
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 [Original Message]
 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Date: 12/11/2005 9:44:49 AM
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 Charles Perry Locke!!

 I KNEW what you were asking!  Let go this anti-thingy Charles.
 cd: His store must not be open to the public Charles.

 - Original Message - 
 From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  Lance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to

post a

  link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
 Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500

 We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I
 say
 that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is
 particularly true concerning those who believe other texts to

function

 on
 a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I

carry

 lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?

 - Original Message - From: Charles Perry Locke
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

 Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your 
 wares.

 From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
 Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

 I SELL this book. It's excellent!
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the
 only
  source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled 
  Lost

  Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written

as

  being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final
 decisions
  of what should and what should not be included in the holy writ.

I

  tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I
 moved--if
  I find it I will give you chapter and verse.
  In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and
 describes
  her as being very beautiful.
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard

Time,

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Blaine do you read the Bible?
  It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go
 back
  and refresh .

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't

make

  headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one
  account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked
 Able
  better than Cain--until Able was removed, at least.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
 may
 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email 
 to

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you

have

 a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

 --
 Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you

may

 know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
 http://www.InnGlory.org

 If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you

have

 a
 friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

  --
  Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you

may

  know how you ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6)
  http://www.InnGlory.org

  If you do not want to receive posts from

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Blainerb473






The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by 
Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an abridgement of more 
extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon,and his son, 
Moroni. 


In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  who are its 
  authors?
  
  On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  

.. The Book of Mormon is the word of 
  God

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

For all those that want to know about the BOOKSTORELance sends his kindest regards and wants you to know the answer is; his car is BLUE!  Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  But you see, lance, it is almost impossible to have a straight conversation with you. I ask a quaestion, you answer a different one. That is called beign OBTUSE. It does not lead to conversation, and tends to make one appear arrogant. All I want to do is get a link to your bookstore. And, what is an "anti-thingy"?From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AEDate: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 09:44:47 -0500Charles Perry Locke!!I
 KNEW what you were asking! Let go this anti-thingy Charles.- Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: December 11, 2005 09:35Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AELance, I was not asking for recommendations, just asking you to "post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares."From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AEDate: Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:11:38 -0500We'd best be certain that we're speaking of the same book(s). When I say that it (the book) is excellent, I'M NOT RECOMMENDING IT! This is particularly true concerning
 those who believe other texts to function on a par with Scripture. I apologize if I mislead anyone on this. I carry lots of material that I'd not recommend to everyone. Who wouldn't?- Original Message - From: "Charles Perry Locke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Sent: December 11, 2005 00:25Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AELance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.From: "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AEDate: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04
 -0500I SELL this book. It's excellent! - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34 Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled Lost Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if
 I find it I will give you chapter and verse. In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes her as being very beautiful. Blainerb In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Blaine do you read the Bible? It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back and refresh . [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better
 than Cain--until Able was "removed," at least.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you
 do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to
 answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL P

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Else how could joe have moved them According to Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon was engraven on plates which had the appearance of gold, each plate was six inches wide and eight inches long and not quite so thick as common tin The volume was something near six inches in thickness(Joseph Smith, Times and Seasons, v3:9, March 1, 1842, 707.) They have been figured to be around 200lbs if gold.A block of solid tin measuring 7 x 8 x 6 inches, or 288 cubic inches, would weigh 74.67 pounds. If one allows for a 30 percent reduction due to the unevenness and space between the plates, the package would then weigh 52.27 pounds. Using the same calculations, plates of gold weigh 140.50 pounds; copper, 64.71 pounds; a mixture of gold and copper, between 65 and 140 pounds. (Vogel, The Making of a Prophet, 600) The plates were
secreted about three miles from home... Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and, wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started for home. After proceeding a short distance, he thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed. About half a mile further he was attacked again in the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of the house,
when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue of running (Lucy's Book, pp.385-386, Biographical Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp.104-105).Amazing strength Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: gold platesDAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is
something that is debatable.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an abridgement of more extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon,and his son, Moroni. In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
who are its authors?On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: .. The Book of Mormon is the word of God -- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

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Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Terry Clifton

Sounds like a tough neighborhood. Joe must have been as full of grit
as bad bad Leroy Brown.

Kevin Deegan wrote:
The plates were secreted about three miles from home...
Joseph, on coming to them, took them from their secret place, and,
wrapping them in his linen frock, placed them under his arm and started
for home.
After proceeding a short distance, he
thought it would be more safe to leave the road and go through the
woods. Traveling some distance after he left the road, he came to a
large windfall, and as he was jumping over a log, a man sprang up from
behind it, and gave him a heavy blow with a gun. Joseph turned around
and knocked him down, then ran at the top of his speed.
About half a mile further he was attacked again in
the same manner as before; he knocked this man down in like manner as
the former, and ran on again; and before he reached home he was assaulted
the third time. In striking the last one he dislocated his
thumb, which, however, he did not notice until he came within sight of
the house, when he threw himself down in the corner of the fence in
order to recover his breath. As soon as he was able, he arose and came
to the house. He was still altogether speechless from fright and the
fatigue of running (Lucy's
Book, pp.385-386, Biographical
Sketches, by Lucy Smith, pp.104-105).

Amazing strength

Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
gold plates

DAVEH: I might add that it is my understanding that they had the appearance
of gold. Whether or not the content was actually 100% gold is
something that is debatable.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold
plates by Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an abridgement of more
extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon,and his son, Moroni.

In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

who are
its authors?

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

.. The Book of Mormon is the word of God

-- ~~~ Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.langlitz.com ~~~ If you wish to receive things I find interesting, I maintain six email lists... JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS, STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Yahoo! Shopping
Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo!
Shopping

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Blainerb473





I think the twelve tribes did each have one of the zodiac signs as its 
symbol-- Joseph was Taurus (each horn of the bull representing one of his 
sons--Ephraim and Mannasseh), Dan was Scorpio, Judah was Leo, Reuben was 
Aquarius, etc., but a book I own says there are more than twelve different 
personalities possible as symbolized by the zodiac--it was almost an infinite 
number, due to the 360 degrees in the zodiac circle, multiplied by the 
twelve signs, multiplied by 144 different sun-moon combinations, 
multiplied by the positions of the planets in the zodiac and their 
combinations with the sun and the moon and, etc.etc. etc. The 
number was 10 to the 332nd power! This would come a little closer to 
accounting for each unique personality than any personality theory I am aware 
of. 


In a message dated 12/10/2005 11:37:21 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Looks like you and I 
  were born just a few days apart, Blaine. So wouldn’t that mean we are 
  pretty much identical? (Disturbing 
  thought!!!) Gee, there must only be 12 different kinds of 
  folks in the world; kinda like the twelve tribes of Israel, huh? 
  iz
  
  
  
  
  
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  On Behalf Of 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 9:50 
  PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  
  
  
  Judy you're just too 
  fixed on a one bible only theme. You would enjoy your life more if you 
  would loosen up on that point a bit, huh? The Book of Mormon is the word 
  of God, and see what you are missing? 

  
  Tell me your 
  birthday, maybe I can psych out your problem . . . 
  :)
  
  Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread ttxpress




you dohave a 
certainquality of faith--how would you describe its 
characteristics?

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 19:22:17 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  The Book of Mormon was translated to English from a set of gold plates by 
  Joseph Smith Jr. The plateswere an abridgement of more 
  extensive records by a Nephite named Mormon,and his son, 
  Moroni. 
  
  
  In a message dated 12/10/2005 9:19:28 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
who are its 
authors?

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  .. The Book of Mormon is the word of 
God

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-11 Thread Blainerb473






Blainerb: 
"and ye shall be as the gods, knowing good and evil," was 
actually the truth--the lie was that they would not 
die. Satan often pairs the truth with a lie so as to give the 
lie credibility--politicians often do the same thing, as do Street 
Preachers :)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE--Dave's clarifying explanation





Nice explication, Dave--I should have it printed off and give it out next 
time I teach a SS class--
Blainerb


In a message dated 12/9/2005 12:35:10 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DAVEH: Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this, 
  Lance. While I can give you a longer version than before, I 
  certainly can't give you all the details, as I have neither the time (I do 
  need some sleep!) nor the knowledge. 
  But... As you must know, I believe God created 
  us spiritually prior to the creation of the world. IOWwe were spirit 
  beings in a pre-mortal existence. It is my belief that God the Father 
  consists of a spirit housed in a physical body. He created us as spirit 
  beings, with the intent that we could (if we desire and are obedient) become 
  not only one with him, but also perfect (complete, as Perry would suggest) as 
  he is perfect. That basic process is known by LDS 
  folks as eternal progressioneffectively progressing from a created 
  spirit being to one who is like God. As has been often quoted, one LDS 
  authority said...As man is, God once was. As God is, man 
  may become..which is a catchy phrase that tends to excite 
  many Christians, yet it implies the thinking of many LDS folks who believe we 
  have the potential to become like GodIFF we so desire to fulfill our 
  potential to become one with the Lord by being obedient to him. Those 
  who do so, bring glory to the Lord. Those who don't will suffer 
  damnation (hell) to some extent, by impeding their eternal 
  progression. In order that the spirit beings in the 
  pre-mortal existence can progress to the point of gaining a glorified 
  resurrected body of flesh and bone, as the Savior now has, it was necessary 
  for us to be born into a world created perfectly, so to speak. Adam and 
  Eve were created as immortals, and as such were incapable of death. Not 
  only that, but they were incapable of understanding the difference between 
  good and evilthey were innocent. Yes, they were pure and undefiled, 
  but yet they were also naive in their innocence.quite unlike God who knows 
  the difference between good and evil. By placing the 
  tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, and then commanding them not 
  to eat of that tree, explaining that they would die IF they partook of the 
  forbidden fruit, God made it possible for them to not only gain the knowledge 
  needed to become like him, but he also provided a way they could shed their 
  bodies of flesh and bloodby dying, which separates the spirit from the 
  body. In partaking of the forbidden fruit, not only 
  did AE subject themselves to the possibility of physical death (which we 
  define as the separation of the spirit from the physical body), but they also 
  were separated from God.which we define as spiritual 
  death. In essence, this resulted in AE experiencing two 
  forms of hellfirst the separation from God, and second being returned to 
  the state of a spirit being, without the ability to overcome that 
  deficit. Hence, they would remain in that eternal state of damnation 
  forever, if it were not for God's plan of 
  salvation. That plan of salvation was prepared 
  before the foundation of the world, and Jesus was chosen to implement 
  it. God prepared his Son to be a perfect sacrifice to atone for 
  AE's (and all of mankind's) transgressions. Not only that, but the 
  Son he foreordained to save us from our (specifically, AE's in this 
  instance) sins also was able to overcome physical death in a process we know 
  as the resurrection. Neither of these impediments to our progression 
  were things we could overcome on our own though. We had to have a Savior 
  do that for us. Due to his resurrection, all will be resurrected and 
  gain an immortal physical body. Due to his atonement, all will have the 
  opportunity to have their sins remitted and return to heaven IF they so desire 
  and are willing to be obedient to the Lord's commandments. That is why 
  it is through his grace that we are saved...nothing we could do on our own 
  could accomplish that salvation. Once Jesus fulfilled that mantle of 
  salvation (both physical and spiritual), the only thing standing between us 
  and God is ourselves. Effectively...We can either keep the 
  commandments, and return to the Lord in heaven, or we can eschew them and 
  suffer damnation (impedance) to our eternal 
  progression. I hope that answers your query, 
  Lance. If you want a slightly deeper (and different) view of the Fall, I 
  can post an interesting perspective of the Fall that was recently posted to an 
  LDS Forum.just let me know if that appeals to 
you.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE





"Ready and Able?" Yeah, I heard about them two. 




In a message dated 12/9/2005 5:55:41 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
They had 
  another brother called Ready[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  


I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines 
like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. He 
was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than 
Cain--until Able was"removed,"at 
least.  

In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:28:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So Cain and Abel were children # 
  1 and #2. and when Cain 
  killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I 
  mean, where did those people come from? I personally 
  believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. 
  But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with 
  the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own 
  people
  
  jd

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE






Blainerb: It sounds good and true to me. Why are you even 
asking a question like that?

In a message dated 12/9/2005 5:58:18 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Kevin: Are you willing to BET your Life on 
  this?
  
  
  They did not seem to be aware of their nakedness until 
  they ate the apple. Then they made fig leaf aprons to cover their 
  nakedness. Sounds like they were changed in some 
  mysterious way by eating the apple. I can see 
  it all now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the first time 
  asbeing desirable. She feels uncomfortable, and asks, why are you 
  staring at me? He blushes--for the first time--and looks away. But 
  steals a glance now and then when she's not looking. :)
  Satanassured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which 
  indicates she was at that time immortal. Also, God told her if she ate 
  the good stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at 
  that time immortal. They were then kicked out of the garden, to prevent 
  them from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently 
  restored their immortality. 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  


In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:34:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just 
  like us -- which includes the fact that they were created 
  "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the 
  garden. 
  
  jd

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE





As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only source 
of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled 
Lost Books of the Bible, in which 
there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not accepted by 
those who made the final decisions of what should and what should not be 
included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must still be buried with 
stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you chapter and verse. 

 In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes 
her as being very beautiful.
Blainerb


In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Blaine do you read the Bible?
  It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why 
  not go back and refresh .[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  


  
  
  I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines 
  like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. 
  He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than 
  Cain--until Able was"removed,"at 
  least.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-10 Thread Lance Muir

I SELL this book. It's excellent!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE

  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
  source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled 
  Lost Books of the Bible, in 
  which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not accepted 
  by those who made the final decisions of what should and what should not be 
  included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must still be buried with 
  stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you chapter and verse. 

   In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes 
  her as being very beautiful.
  Blainerb

  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - 
why not go back and refresh 
.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one 
account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked 
Able better than Cain--until Able 
was"removed,"at least.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-10 Thread Kevin Deegan

Because your ETERNAL DESTINY depends on it![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blainerb: It sounds good and true to me. Why are you even asking a question like that?In a message dated 12/9/2005 5:58:18 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Kevin: Are you willing to BET your Life on this? They did not seem to be aware of their nakedness until they ate the apple. Then they made fig leaf
aprons to cover their nakedness. Sounds like they were changed in some mysterious way by eating the apple. I can see it all now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the first time asbeing desirable. She feels uncomfortable, and asks, why are you staring at me? He blushes--for the first time--and looks away. But steals a glance now and then when she's not looking. :) Satanassured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which indicates she was at that time immortal. Also, God told her if she ate the good stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at that time immortal. They were then kicked out of the garden, to prevent them from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently restored their immortality. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:34:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like us -- which includes the fact that they were created "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden. jd

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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE--Dave's clarifying explanation

2005-12-10 Thread Dave Hansen





DAVEH: Thanx Blaine. However, I am curious whether or not you
disagree on any of the details, or if you would add anything to it?
(And I am aware that there is much that could be added, however for the
purposes of explaining the basic outline to Lance, I didn't think it
would serve any purpose to get sidetracked on too many details.)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Nice explication, Dave--I should have it printed off and give it
out next time I teach a SS class--
  Blainerb
  
  
  In a message dated 12/9/2005 12:35:10 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  DAVEH: Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this,
Lance. While I can give you a longer version than before, I certainly
can't give you all the details, as I have neither the time (I do need
some sleep!) nor the knowledge. But...

 As you must know, I believe God created us spiritually prior to the
creation of the world. IOWwe were spirit beings in a pre-mortal
existence. It is my belief that God the Father consists of a spirit
housed in a physical body. He created us as spirit beings, with the
intent that we could (if we desire and are obedient) become not only
one with him, but also perfect (complete, as Perry would suggest) as he
is perfect.

 That basic process is known by LDS folks as eternal progressioneffectively
progressing from a created spirit being to one who is like God. As has
been often quoted, one LDS authority said...

As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

.which is a catchy phrase that tends to excite many Christians,
yet it implies the thinking of many LDS folks who believe we have the
potential to become like GodIFF we so desire to fulfill our
potential to become one with the Lord by being obedient to him. Those
who do so, bring glory to the Lord. Those who don't will suffer
damnation (hell) to some extent, by impeding their eternal progression.

 In order that the spirit beings in the pre-mortal existence can
progress to the point of gaining a glorified resurrected body of flesh
and bone, as the Savior now has, it was necessary for us to be born
into a world created perfectly, so to speak. Adam and Eve were created
as immortals, and as such were incapable of death. Not only that, but
they were incapable of understanding the difference between good and
evilthey were innocent. Yes, they were pure and undefiled, but yet
they were also naive in their innocence.quite unlike God who knows
the difference between good and evil.

 By placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden,
and then commanding them not to eat of that tree, explaining that they
would die IF they partook of the forbidden fruit, God made it possible
for them to not only gain the knowledge needed to become like him, but
he also provided a way they could shed their bodies of flesh and
bloodby dying, which separates the spirit from the body.

 In partaking of the forbidden fruit, not only did AE subject
themselves to the possibility of physical death (which we define as the
separation of the spirit from the physical body), but they also were
separated from God.which we define as spiritual death. In
essence, this resulted in AE experiencing two forms of
hellfirst the separation from God, and second being returned to the
state of a spirit being, without the ability to overcome that deficit.
Hence, they would remain in that eternal state of damnation forever, if
it were not for God's plan of salvation.

 That plan of salvation was prepared before the foundation of the
world, and Jesus was chosen to implement it. God prepared his Son to
be a perfect sacrifice to atone for AE's (and all of
mankind's) transgressions. Not only that, but the Son he foreordained
to save us from our (specifically, AE's in this instance) sins
also was able to overcome physical death in a process we know as the
resurrection. Neither of these impediments to our progression were
things we could overcome on our own though. We had to have a Savior do
that for us. Due to his resurrection, all will be resurrected and gain
an immortal physical body. Due to his atonement, all will have the
opportunity to have their sins remitted and return to heaven IF they so
desire and are willing to be obedient to the Lord's commandments. That
is why it is through his grace that we are saved...nothing we could
do on our own could accomplish that salvation. Once Jesus fulfilled
that mantle of salvation (both physical and spiritual), the only thing
standing between us and God is ourselves. Effectively...We can
either keep the commandments, and return to the Lord in heaven, or we
can eschew them and suffer damnation (impedance) to our eternal
progression.

 I hope that answers your query, Lance. If you want a slightly
deeper (and different) view of the Fall, I can post an interesting
perspective of the Fall that was recently posted to an LDS
Forum.just let me

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-10 Thread Kevin Deegan

Iheard that there was abook explaining how the earth is the center of the UniverseIt probably has as much truth as your book.  If I give you chapter  verse out of this book? so what!Are Anton Laveys books good for your "spiritual Enlightenment"?  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled Lost Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what should not be included in the holy
 writ. I tried to find it--must still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you chapter and verse.In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes her as being very beautiful.  Blainerb  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Blaine do you read the Bible?  It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back and refresh .[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than Cain--until Able was"removed,"at least.
	
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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-10 Thread Judy Taylor




I have it and have yet to figure out what it is 
excellent for  I'd put it on the same level as "Dead Sea 
Scrolls"
and "Dead Sea Scroll Bibles"

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE


As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled 
Lost Books of the Bible, in 
which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not 
accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what 
should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must 
still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you 
chapter and verse. 
 In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and 
describes her as being very beautiful.
Blainerb


In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Blaine do you read the Bible?
  It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - 
  why not go back and refresh 
  .[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  


  
  
  I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
  headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one 
  account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked 
  Able better than Cain--until Able 
  was"removed,"at least.  
  


   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE

2005-12-10 Thread Dave Hansen

 Those who have access to a TV set now at least
have half a chance, but the rest are stillhopelessly doomed.

Eternal security of the believer.
Once you're saved, you're always saved--whether you like it or not.
Since there is nothing you can do to lose your salvation, there's
nothing you can't do while not worrying about it. The possibilities
are endless and don't require much thought. Have fun! And if anyone
dares to refer to you as a "carnal Christian" because of your antics,
justtell them that Christ died to pay the price for your sins, and
you're just making sure that you get your money's worth. (If they
still aren't convinced, they have probably been visited by Mormon
missionaries so you are free to ignore anything they say.)

And why is it that Protestants (Catholics
too--don't mean to leave them out) think that Mormon theology is
erroneous? I give up on that one.

Well. . .in so far as any of this makes
sense, you can thank Sandra Tanner. These ideas came to me after
reading her contrast of the Mormon view of the Fall vs. the
dyed-in-the-wool true believer version she subscribes to. And if none
of it makes sense, let's just go ahead and blame. . .er, uh, I mean,
"thank" Sandra anyway. I'm a big believer in giving credit where
credit is due. 
++
++
++
++

There are a few things about this I found particularly
interesting, and highlighted them, such as...

"This
business of obeying God isall very well and good, but I think I'd be
better off if I sinned and then repented of it so I can go to heaven
instead!"

.and..

God knew exactly what would happen with Adam
and Eve, andit was just what he had in mind all along. And if that's
not the case, then you are required to believe things that are much
more absurd than the "some sinless and some sinful" scenario described
above. 

...and... 

This includes all those who have never even
heard of Christ, from 33 A.
D. right up to the present. They also haven't been "born again" and
they never will be. If that sounds harsh, just remember that it isn't
God's fault that it took 20 centuries to invent television and
theBenny Hinn Show. Those who have access to a TV set now at least
have half a chance, but the rest are stillhopelessly doomed. 

I will be interested in hearing what you think about the
above material, Lance.



Lance Muir wrote:

  
  
  This IS the sort of thing I was
looking for. YES I'd like for you to post the 'newer' material.
  
  thanks,
  
  Lance
  
-
Original Message ----- 
From:
Dave
Hansen 
To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent:
December 09, 2005 02:34
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE


DAVEH: Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this, Lance.
While I can give you a longer version than before, I certainly can't
give you all the details, as I have neither the time (I do need some
sleep!) nor the knowledge. But...

 As you must know, I believe God created us spiritually prior to the
creation of the world. IOWwe were spirit beings in a pre-mortal
existence. It is my belief that God the Father consists of a spirit
housed in a physical body. He created us as spirit beings, with the
intent that we could (if we desire and are obedient) become not only
one with him, but also perfect (complete, as Perry would suggest) as he
is perfect.

 That basic process is known by LDS folks as eternal progressioneffectively
progressing from a created spirit being to one who is like God. As has
been often quoted, one LDS authority said...

As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.

.which is a catchy phrase that tends to excite many Christians,
yet it implies the thinking of many LDS folks who believe we have the
potential to become like GodIFF we so desire to fulfill our
potential to become one with the Lord by being obedient to him. Those
who do so, bring glory to the Lord. Those who don't will suffer
damnation (hell) to some extent, by impeding their eternal progression.

 In order that the spirit beings in the pre-mortal existence can
progress to the point of gaining a glorified resurrected body of flesh
and bone, as the Savior now has, it was necessary for us to be born
into a world created perfectly, so to speak. Adam and Eve were created
as immortals, and as such were incapable of death. Not only that, but
they were incapable of understanding the difference between good and
evilthey were innocent. Yes, they were pure and undefiled, but yet
they were also naive in their innocence.quite unlike God who knows
the difference between good and evil.

 By placing the tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden,
and then commanding them not to eat of that tree, explaining that they
would die IF they partook of the forbidden fruit, God made it possible
for them to not only gain the k

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE

2005-12-10 Thread Terry Clifton





Just more speculation/ human logic.
==

Dave Hansen wrote:

  
  YES I'd like for you to post the
'newer'
material
  
DAVEH: I'm not fond of borrowing material from another forum to post
in its entirety, but I find Court Watch's comments from another forum
in which I lurk to be interesting to ponder, Lance 
  
++
++
++
++
Court Watch wrote:
  
  Subject:
[Grace-to-you] To Sandra: This One's For You!
  
  If I understand it
correctly,
the Protestant view of what we call the "Fall" in the Garden of Eden
need not have occurred. It was possible for Adam and Eve to always
obey God and, if they had done so, the human race could havecontinued
in a state of primal innocence. For the sake of argument, let's
suppose that the first couple had remained obedient and sinless. All
of their offspring would be born in the same condition, but each of
them would alsothen face the choice of whether to obey God or not.
(Presumably, Satan could have been very creative in thinking up various
ways to put them to the test.)
  
  The odds are overwhelming that at least
some
of these offspring would fall into sin, although others might not. The
sinfulones would then pass this fallen condition onto their children,
who would become the inheritors of their parents' "original" sin and
guilt. These people would stand in need of the redemption and
atonement for sin later offered by Christ, and might become inclined to
do all sorts of wicked things. 
  But the ones descended from sinless
parents,
who also did not sin themselves, would not. They would have no need of
salvation as long as they remained perfectly virtuous. 
  
  If this could happen at all, I don't see
why
it couldn't go on indefinitely. The human race would then have two
basic lines of development, but what a curious situation this would
be. It's a safe bet that the twogroups would be in constant conflict
with each other. When it finally came, the gospel message to the
sinful group would be: "You need to repent and be saved." The message
to the sinlessly perfectgroup would be: "Don't worry, you're fine just
the way you are."
  
  Now, it's safe to assume that the sinful
group might come tooutnumber the sinless group, if only by virtue of
their ability to procreate more naturallysinful people. On the other
hand, the sinless folks would go on living forever on earth since they
would not be subject to physical death. That sounds nice at first, but
at least some of the sinful people would probably repent and be saved,
so that whiletheir death was inevitable, so too was the possibility
that they would go to heavenly glory upon dying. 
  
  Who would then be better off--the perfect
people or the saved sinners? Which is better, a permanent existence on
earth, or eternity in a heavenly state? Once word got out that
forgiven sinners could go to a higher plane of existence and remain
there forever, wouldn'tthe perfect people be inclined to say:"This
business of obeying God isall very well and good, but I think I'd be
better off if I sinned and then repented of it so I can go to heaven
instead!"
  
  If that all sounds far fetched, that's only
because it is--butthen, so is much of what passes for "Christian"
theology about original sin. In light of the above considerations, why
is the LDS view of a "necessary" Fall (and one that didn't take God by
surprise) so outrageous? God knew exactly what would happen with
Adam
and Eve, andit was just what he had in mind all along. And if that's
not the case, then you are required to believe things that are much
more absurd than the "some sinless and some sinful" scenario described
above. 
  
  Things like:
  
  Unbaptized infants spend eternity in hell.
St. Augustine certainly believed it, and he's the hero of Catholics and
Calvinists alike. After all, if original sin and guilt are inherited,
why should babies get a free pass? And if we think they're innocent,
maybe that's only because we're guilty ourselves. God's justice is
infinite, and so is his wrath. If the tykes haven't been "born again"
they're out of luck.
  
  Some people have been predestined to be
saved, while others have been predestined by God to spend eternity in
hell, and there is absolutely nothing that anyone can do about it.
Whynot? Because God is sovereign and that's the way he wants it.
Case closed. If you're smart, you'll at least pretend to be sure that
you're predestined to be one of the saved--and hope you're right.
(Hint: vilifying Mormons is regarded as a sure sign that you're saved,
so do it as often as possible.)
  
  The vast majority of the human race will
spend eternity in hell anyway, because they never made a decision for
Christ.
  This includes all those who have never even heard of Christ, from
33
A.
D. right up to the present. They also haven't been "born again" and
they never will be. If that sounds harsh, just remember that it isn't

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE







In a message dated 12/9/2005 8:15:44 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 The lie that Satan perpetrated in the garden of Eden to 
  deceive Eve is still alive today in some cults..."and ye shall be as 
  gods".Perry


Blainerb: 
"and ye shall be as the gods, knowing good and evil," was 
actually the truth--the lie was that they would not 
die. Satan often pairs the truth with a lie so as to give the 
lie credibility--politicians often do the same thing, as do Street 
Preachers :)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE





That's interesting Lance!! If I do not soon find my copy I may buy 
another from you? It is an excellent book!!
Blainerb


In a message dated 12/10/2005 12:17:59 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE


As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled 
Lost Books of the Bible, in 
which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not 
accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what 
should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must 
still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you 
chapter and verse. 
 In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and 
describes her as being very beautiful.
Blainerb


In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Blaine do you read the Bible?
  It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - 
  why not go back and refresh 
  .[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  


  
  
  I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
  headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one 
  account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked 
  Able better than Cain--until Able 
  was"removed,"at least.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE




In a message dated 12/10/2005 12:24:09 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Iheard that there was abook explaining how the earth is the 
  center of the UniverseIt probably has as much truth as your book.
  If I give you chapter  verse out of this book? so what!
  
  Are Anton Laveys books 
  good for your "spiritual Enlightenment"?



   Who's he?
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  


As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled 
Lost Books of the Bible, in 
which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not 
accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what 
should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must 
still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you 
chapter and verse. 
 In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and 
describes her as being very beautiful.
Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE





Judy you're just too fixed on a one bible only theme. You would enjoy 
your life more if you would loosen up on that point a bit, huh? The Book 
of Mormon is the word of God, and see what you are missing? 
Tell me your birthday, maybe I can psych out your problem . . . 
:)
Blainerb


In a message dated 12/10/2005 12:41:16 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I have it and have yet to figure out what it 
  is excellent for  I'd put it on the same level as "Dead Sea 
  Scrolls"
  and "Dead Sea Scroll Bibles"
  
  On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
I SELL this book. It's excellent!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
      Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  
  
  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
  source of spiritual enlightenment! :) I have a book titled 
  Lost Books of the Bible, in 
  which there are accounts that are written as being true, but were not 
  accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what 
  should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must 
  still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you 
  chapter and verse. 
   In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and 
  describes her as being very beautiful.
  Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-10 Thread ttxpress




who are its 
authors?

On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 22:49:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  .. The Book of Mormon is the word of God
  ||

RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-10 Thread ShieldsFamily









Looks like you and I were born just a few
days apart, Blaine.
So wouldnt that mean we are pretty much identical? (Disturbing thought!!!) Gee, there
must only be 12 different kinds of folks in the world; kinda like the twelve
tribes of Israel, huh? iz











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005
9:50 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE









Judy you're just too fixed on a one bible
only theme. You would enjoy your life more if you would loosen up on that
point a bit, huh? The Book of Mormon is the word of God, and see what you
are missing? 





Tell me your birthday, maybe I can psych
out your problem . . . :)





Blainerb

















In a message dated 12/10/2005 12:41:16
P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







I have it and have yet
to figure out what it is excellent for  I'd put it on the same level
as Dead Sea Scrolls





and Dead Sea Scroll Bibles











On Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500
Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:







I SELL this book. It's excellent!







- Original Message - 





From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]






To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE













As you should know by now, I do not
believe the Bible to be the only source of spiritual enlightenment!
:) I have a book titled Lost Books of the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as being true, but
were not accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and what
should not be included in the holy writ. I tried to find it--must still
be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you chapter
and verse. 





 In the account it actually gives
the sister's name, and describes her as being very beautiful.





Blainerb

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-10 Thread Charles Perry Locke

Lance, post a link to your bookstore so we can check out your wares.

From: Lance Muir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Sat, 10 Dec 2005 14:17:04 -0500

I SELL this book. It's excellent!
  - Original Message -
  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
  Sent: December 10, 2005 13:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  As you should know by now, I do not believe the Bible to be the only 
source of spiritual enlightenment!  :)  I have a book titled Lost Books of 
the Bible, in which there are accounts that are written as being true, but 
were not accepted by those who made the final decisions of what should and 
what should not be included in the holy writ.  I tried to find it--must 
still be buried with stuff from when I moved--if I find it I will give you 
chapter and verse.
In the account it actually gives the sister's name, and describes her 
as being very beautiful.

  Blainerb

  In a message dated 12/9/2005 6:00:57 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back and 
refresh .

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make 
headlines like Cain.  Cain married his sister, according to one account.  
He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than 
Cain--until Able was removed, at least.

--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you have a friend who wants to 
join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

JD your dylexia has kicked in again. We who are
born through procreation are created in the "image" of the
first Adam. They were here first already and
the tree of life is what they were encouraged toeat from. to
say they were walking in death right then is pure
unwarranted speculation; why would a God og life create them
in death?

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:33:40 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like
us -- which includes the fact that they were created
"mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden.

jd-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 09 Dec 2005
00:27:22 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

So Cain and Abel were children # 1
and #2. and when Cain killed
Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where
did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve
were not the only people created. But that is not a popular
opinion.If we go with the standard opin -- Cain
was afraid of his own people

jd
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:07 ESTSubject:
Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But why did they not have children until they were
1) changed into mortal beings

I hate to tell you this Bbut the children generally come NINE
Months AFTER the FACT!
Blainerb: Hmm, let's see, chapter three of Genesis ends
with the couple being driven out of the paradisiacal garden, then chapter 4 begins as follows:

"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she
conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the
Lord."
Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden But
no timetable is given.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blainerb:Ha! I agree,
it was a good commandment! But why did they not have
children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2) forced out
of the garden?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Iwasn't there Blaine. If you
don't like it, complain to God. He ordered it, not me. I do,
however, think it was a great idea. One of the easiest commands to
keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to
the Fall?? What sacrilege is this??
:)
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think you might have missed
something, Blaine. There is no reason to think that Judy would
not have been here if there had been no fall. The command to
"Be fruitful and multiply" came prior to the fall. See Genesis
1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blainerb: You seem
to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter of God are,
Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, none of us
including your wonderful self wouldeven be
here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in their perfect
little paradise, never knowing good from evil and not even
caring. Butthey would be eternally pure and goody-good
righteous... Is that what you think the Lord really
wanted?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds of
wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of
good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His creation to eat
from. The other tree - the one the serpent was promoting -
is earthly, sensual, and demonic. So take your pick.
One leads to life and the other to death.

judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John
2:4)

judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE






On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:45:44 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  being over protective through fear is one 
  thingDAVEH: That seems to be a tactic of some 
  Christians. For instance, the whole commonly believed scenario about 
  hell being a literal punitive torturous form of punishment is an example that 
  I see driving some people away from Christianity. I'm sure there will be 
  some SPers who will point to their successes by using such methodology, but 
  that does not necessarily offset the numbers of those who are turned off by 
  such rhetoric.
  
  They may be turned off at that moment but who knows 
  whether or not a seed has been planted that God will
  water at a later date? That was John the 
  Baptists ministry ie "the axe will be layed to the root of the tree of 
  those
  who do not repent"This is what the wisdom of the world 
  teaches.DAVEH: Have you ever read of some of 
  the examples where groups of people were decimated by diseases brought into 
  their environment by outsiders? 
  
  Yes and usually these groups were already compromised 
  by sin. The American indians were pagan god
  worshippers and the Australian aborigines were 
  animists leaving both wide open.God has 
  given us an immune system which should be able to throw off anything that 
  comes our wayDAVEH: I tend to agree with you on this 
  to a point, Judy. Though I don't view it as an 
  immune system, but rather as inoculation. We aren't born with 
  a resistance to sin, but we achieve it as we become one with the Lord. I 
  think it was Paul who explained the analogy of putting on the armor of 
  God. We aren't born with that armor, but acquire it as we grow in 
  Christ. The tree of life is "pure, 
  peaceable, and full of good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His 
  creation to eat from.DAVEH: Then why do you think God 
  kept AE from partaking of it after they transgressed?
  
  Because they would have lived forever in their fallen 
  and demonized state and He will not haveany devils in heaven; but he did 
  make for them a way of escape planned before the foundation of the 
  world.The other tree - the one the 
  serpent was promoting - is earthly, sensual, and 
  demonic.DAVEH:: You've lost me on that one, 
  Judy. Are you saying the tree of knowledge of good and evil is earthly, sensual, and 
  demonic? If so, it sounds like you are 
  implying that God planted something evil in the Garden of Eden in an effort to 
  tempt AE. If that is what you are suggesting, do you have Biblical 
  evidence to support your theory? 
  
  I am saying He allowed it -to test their faith 
  and they bit. It came in the form of the serpent who spoke to Eve 

  He was full of wisdom from the other tree. In 
  the gospels you will remember the parable of the sower who sows
  the good seed which is God's Word (Jesus explains) 
  and the enemy who sows another word making tares
  which will be separated from the wheat in the last 
  day. Same idea. FWIWI had the 
  impression that Gen 1 suggests exactly the opposite12] 
  And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and 
  the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw 
  that it was good..That the trees God created were 
  good. Reading Gen 2..
  
  We are not talking about "fruit" trees here DaveH; in 
  the garden there are two trees that have to do with
  different kinds of knowledge or 
  wisdom.[9] And out of the ground made the LORD God to 
  grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of 
  life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree 
  of knowledge of good and evildoes not give me the 
  impression that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was in 
  itself evil. If you disagree, I'd like to understand why you think 
  such. 
  
  Because Jesus says that nothing that goes into the 
  mouth is of itself evil - it just goes in and comes out in the draught. It is 
  what comes out of the heart that defiles the man - and these two trees had 
  that kind of power.Judy Taylor wrote: 
  

DaveH writes:
 FWIW.While it may be noble to want to keep one's 
children pure and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their 
children will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the 
world. 

Not necessarily; being over protective through 
fear is one thing. Teaching children spiritual discernment in the 
fear of God is another because then the parent has His power and watchful 
eye on their side.

I see it similar to communicable illnesses. You could raise your 
kid in a bubble and he would live a germ/virus free life. But once he 
enters the real world, he would be extremely vulnerable to catching a slew 
of nasty bugs. Isn't it much better to allow your kid be exposed to 
such hazards so that he can become inoculated against the

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE






On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 22:04:35 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  DAVEH: It is not that I disagree with what you said below, 
  Judy.But, I think you've gone off topic. We are discussing AE's 
  transgression, not our own. As soon as they were cast out of the Garden 
  for their transgression, I think they pretty well knew they had no grounds to 
  accuse Him of beingunloving or unjust. 
  To think that God put them through that test 
  just to prove to them the consequences of 
  disobedience seems a little illogical to me, Judy. 
  
  How is it illogical? When you being evil tell 
  your child if you do that I will spank you. When they do it and 
  you
  spank them - why is warning them 
  illogical?Just jumping on them out of the blue would be illogical 
  to me. Ponder that God foreordained Jesus to 
  be AE's Savior even before AE were created. He then created a 
  universe just for AE, and then a planet with all the goodies to keep 
  AE alive, and then a Garden full of everything they would need to live 
  forever in a very pure and comfortable environment. Then God plants one 
  evil tree (from your perspective) and turns Satan loose in paradise to have a 
  go at tempting AE just to test AE in an effort to prove to AE 
  that they will not have grounds toaccuse Him of 
  beingunloving or unjust. Whew!!!.To me that sure 
  seems like a lot of effort for minimal return, Judy.
  
  Makes sense to me DaveH but then I accept God's Word, 
  I don't try to second guess him or figure out a better
  way to do things. It is written already and sealed in 
  heaven so to me allspeculation is a big waste of time and
  does not lead to peace and 
  rest.. Please don't think that I am 
  trying to minimize the import of this topicnothing could be further from 
  the truth. To me, understanding the circumstances of the Fall is 
  extremely important. It just seems from my perspective that the commonly 
  believed Christian perspective regarding the Fall doesn't really explain why 
  it happened, which is why I find it interesting to learn what you believe 
  about it. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
  
  Let me get this straight - you are saying that the 
  Christians have all been deceived about why the fall happened
  and you Mormons are the only ones who know the facts 
  of the matter?? Am I hearing correctly??Judy Taylor 
  wrote: 
  

When all of us stand before God at the great white 
throne judgment... we have to know where we failed. Noone 
will have grounds toaccuse Him of 
beingunloving or unjust because we will have condemned ourselves and 

we will know thiswithout anyone having to tell us... So the test 
is for us rather than for Him. judyt

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:36:28 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  To test them 
  DaveHDAVEH: ??? Do you not think 
  God knew their faith, Judy? Why do you think God would need to test 
  them, since he created themknowing they would transgress?Judy 
  Taylor wrote: 
  

To test them DaveH. Faith 
is ALWAYS tested.

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:24:10 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  He did not plan for them to fall.DAVEH: If 
  that is so, then why do you think he placed the tree of knowledge of 
  good and evil in the Garden of Eden, Terry? 
  Rather than go to all the trouble of preparing a remedy for the fall, 
  would it have not been immensely easier to simply not have put the 
  tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden? IOWthere 
  must have been a reason for God to put the tree there. 
  Seems like it would be important to understand for what the purpose 
  the Lord placed that tree there. Why do you think, 
  Terry?Terry Clifton wrote: 
  This seems so obvious that it should be hard to 
miss, but if you have been taught otherwise all your life, I suspect 
it would be hard to accept.God is omnicient, He knew they 
would sin. He did not plan for them to fall. He 
planned a remedy for the fall. Big difference.As to their 
descendents missing the mark, who knows? All we can do is 
speculate, and speculation often leads to 
error.=Dave 
Hansen wrote: 
He wanted Adam and Eve to ruin it for 
  everyone?if they had not they 
  would have saved themselves and the rest of 
  humanity all of the heartache, 
  suffering, and misery that has been the human lot since 
  then.DAVEH: Thank you two for 
  your comments, both of which focus in one facet of the AE 
  situation of which I am most keen. One of my earliest 
  religious

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

I think probably, John, that all humanity had to
have come through Adam and Eve. This does not mean that Cain and then Abel had
tohave beentheir first children (I guess), but in order for Christ
to be the go'el or Kinsmen Redeemer of
mankind,there has to have been a common ancestry, i.e., a common
bloodline. That is the significance of Luke taking Jesus' genealogy all the way
back to Adam: Christ therefore as the Second Man was qualified to represent
everyone represented by the first man.

Bill

- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:27
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

jd
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:07 ESTSubject:
Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But why did they not have children until they were
1) changed into mortal beings

"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she
conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the
Lord."
Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden But
no timetable is given.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blainerb:Ha! I agree,
it was a good commandment! But why did they not have
children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2) forced out
of the garden?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Iwasn't there Blaine. If you don't like it, complain
to God. He ordered it, not me. I do, however, think it was a
great idea. One of the easiest commands to keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to
the Fall?? What sacrilege is this??
:)
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
I think you might have missed something, Blaine. There
is no reason to think that Judy would not have been here if there
had been no fall. The command to "Be fruitful and multiply"
came prior to the fall. See Genesis 1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John
2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Agreed.

- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:33
PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like
us -- which includes the fact that they were created
"mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden.

jd-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent:
Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:27:22 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

jd
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:07 ESTSubject:
Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But why did they not have children until they were
1) changed into mortal beings

"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she
conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the
Lord."
Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden But
no timetable is given.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blainerb:Ha! I agree,
it was a good commandment! But why did they not have
children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2) forced out
of the garden?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Iwasn't there Blaine. If you don't like it, complain
to God. He ordered it, not me. I do, however, think it was a
great idea. One of the easiest commands to keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to
the Fall?? What sacrilege is this??
:)
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think you might have missed something, Blaine. There
is no reason to think that Judy would not have been here if there
had been no fall. The command to "Be fruitful and multiply"
came prior to the fall. See Genesis 1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

judyt
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
Commandments
is a liar (1 John
2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE




What is the evidence?

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 04:20:21 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Agreed.
  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like 
us -- which includes the fact that they were created 
"mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the 
garden. 

jdFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]





So Cain and Abel were children # 1 
and #2. and when Cain killed 
Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where 
did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and 
Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a 
popular opinion.If we go with the standard opin 
-- Cain was afraid of his own people

jd
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  But why did they not have children until they 
  were 1) changed into mortal beings
  
  I hate to tell you this Bbut the children generally come NINE 
  Months AFTER the FACT!
Blainerb: Hmm, let's see, chapter three of Genesis ends 
with the couple being driven out of the paradisiacal garden, then chapter 4 begins as follows: 

"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she 
conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the 
Lord."
Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden 
But no timetable is given.

  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  

Blainerb:Ha! I 
agree, it was a good commandment! But why did they not 
have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2) 
forced out of the garden?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Iwasn't there Blaine. If you don't like it, 
  complain to God. He ordered it, not me. I do, however, 
  think it was a great idea. One of the easiest commands to keep. 
  ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  wrote: 
  

Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to 
the Fall?? What sacrilege is this?? 
:)
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard 
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think you might have missed something, Blaine. 
  There is no reason to think that Judy would not have been here if 
  there had been no fall. The command to "Be fruitful and 
  multiply" came prior to the fall. See Genesis 
  1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  

Blainerb: You 
seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter of God 
are, Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, none of us 
including your wonderful self wouldeven 
be here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in 
their perfect little paradise, never knowing good from evil and 
not even caring. Butthey would be eternally pure and 
goody-good righteous... Is that what you think the Lord 
really wanted? 

In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard 
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds of 
  wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full 
  of good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His creation to 
  eat from. The other tree - the one the serpent was 
  promoting - is earthly, sensual, and demonic. So take 
  your pick. One leads to life and the other to 
  death.
   
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 
2:4)



   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Me thinks you are putting words in his mouth, Judy.
Had they have continued to eat of the tree of life, they would not
havedied, their mortality being the potential to die in the absence of the
sustenance supplied by the tree of life: "'And now, lest he put out his hand and
take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever' -- so the LORD God
banished him from the Garden . . ."

Bill

- Original Message -
From:
Judy
Taylor
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org

Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 2:14
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE

JD your dylexia has kicked in again. We who are
born through procreation are created in the "image" of the
first Adam. They were here first already
and the tree of life is what they were encouraged toeat from.
to
say they were walking in death right then is pure
unwarranted speculation; why would a God og life create them
in death?

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:33:40 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like
us -- which includes the fact that they were created
"mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the
garden.

jd-Original Message-From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 09 Dec
2005 00:27:22 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

So Cain and Abel were children # 1
and #2. and when Cain killed
Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where
did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and
Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a
popular opinion.If we go with the standard opin
-- Cain was afraid of his own people

jd
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:07
ESTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But why did they not have children until they
were 1) changed into mortal beings

"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she
conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the
Lord."
Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden
But no timetable is given.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blainerb:Ha! I
agree, it was a good commandment! But why did they not
have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2)
forced out of the garden?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Iwasn't there Blaine. If
you don't like it, complain to God. He ordered it, not me.
I do, however, think it was a great idea. One of the easiest
commands to keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to
the Fall?? What sacrilege is this??
:)
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think you might have missed
something, Blaine. There is no reason to think that Judy
would not have been here if there had been no fall. The
command to "Be fruitful and multiply" came prior to the
fall. See Genesis 1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Blainerb: You
seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter of God
are, Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, none of us
including your wonderful self wouldeven
be here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in
their perfect little paradise, never knowing good from evil and
not even caring. Butthey would be eternally pure and
goody-good righteous... Is that what you think the Lord
really wanted?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds of
wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full
of good fruit" and this is the

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE




So they were created one of two ways. They were 
either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience - 
OR they were created like us which is mortal 
and dying as we live with access to the tree of 
life?

Why would a God of life in whom there is no darkness or 
shadow of turning create a dying people? AE
chose death in disobedience.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 04:33:36 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Me thinks you are putting words in his mouth, 
  Judy. Had they have continued to eat of the tree of life, they would not 
  havedied, their mortality being the potential to die 
  in the absence of the sustenance supplied by the tree of life: "'And 
  now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and 
  live forever' -- so the LORD God banished him from the Garden . . 
  ."
  
  Bill
  
From: Judy Taylor 

JD your dylexia has kicked in again. We who 
are born through procreation are created in the "image" of the
first Adam. They were here first already 
and the tree of life is what they were encouraged toeat from. 
to
say they were walking in death right then is pure 
unwarranted speculation; why would a God og life create them 
in death?

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:33:40 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just 
  like us -- which includes the fact that they were created 
  "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the 
  garden. 
  
  jd-Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 09 Dec 
  2005 00:27:22 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE
  

  
  
  
  So Cain and Abel were children # 
  1 and #2. and when Cain 
  killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I 
  mean, where did those people come from? I personally 
  believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. 
  But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with 
  the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own 
  people
  
  jd
  -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
  TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:07 
  ESTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
  

  
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
But why did they not have children until they 
were 1) changed into mortal beings

I hate to tell you this Bbut the children generally come NINE 
Months AFTER the FACT!
  Blainerb: Hmm, let's see, chapter three of Genesis 
  ends with the couple being driven out of the paradisiacal garden, then chapter 4 begins as follows: 
  
  "And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she 
  conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the 
  Lord."
  Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden 
  But no timetable is given.
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  Blainerb:Ha! I 
  agree, it was a good commandment! But why did they 
  not have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 
  2) forced out of the garden?
  
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Iwasn't there Blaine. If 
you don't like it, complain to God. He ordered it, not 
me. I do, however, think it was a great idea. One of the 
easiest commands to keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  
  Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior 
  to the Fall?? What sacrilege is 
  this?? :)
  Blainerb
  
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard 
  Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  I think you might have missed 
something, Blaine. There is no reason to think that Judy 
would not have been here if there had been no fall. The 
command to "Be fruitful and multiply" came prior to the 
fall. See Genesis 1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 

  
  Blainerb: You 
  seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter of God 
  are, Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, none of 
  us including your wonderful self wouldeven 
  be here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in 
  their perfect little paradise, never knowing good from evil 
  and not even caring. Butthey would be eternally 
  pure and goody-good righteous... Is t

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE






On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:01:44 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  From: Judy Taylor 
  

So they were created one of two ways. They 
were either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience - 

OR they were created like us which is mortal 
and dying as we live with access to the tree of 
life?

More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to what 
has been said and see the distinction.

No strawman here 
Bill.

Why would a God of life in whom there is no 
darkness or shadow of turning create a dying people? 

He did not create a "dying people."

What is the meaning of the word "mortal"? 
It is"subject to death, or destined to die?" We who are 
procreated are born mortal because of the first Adam's disobedience. 
He fell from something Bill. So from whence did he 
fall? From mortal to 
mortal?

AE chose death by 
their disobedience.

Adam and Eve chose disobedience, death being the consequence of their 
actions: "The wages of sin is death ... " 

Exactly - and if they were mortal already, 
that is, if God created them mortal then He chose it for 
them
before they got the chance to 
disobey. jt



On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 04:33:36 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Me thinks you are putting words in his mouth, 
  Judy. Had they have continued to eat of the tree of life, they would not 
  havedied, their mortality being the potential to 
  die in the absence of the sustenance supplied by the tree of life: 
  "'And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and 
  eat, and live forever' -- so the LORD God banished him from the Garden . . 
  ."
  
  Bill
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

JD your dylexia has kicked in again. We 
who are born through procreation are created in the "image" of 
the
first Adam. They were here first 
already and the tree of life is what they were encouraged 
toeat from. to
say they were walking in death right then is 
pure unwarranted speculation; why would a God og life create them 

in death?

On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:33:40 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just 
  like us -- which includes the fact that they were created 
  "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the 
  garden. 
  
  jd-Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 09 
  Dec 2005 00:27:22 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  

  
  
  
  So Cain and Abel were children # 1 and 
  #2. and when Cain killed Able -- who 
  was he afraid of -- I mean, where did those people 
  come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve were not 
  the only people created. But that is not a popular 
  opinion.If we go with the standard opin 
  -- Cain was afraid of his own people
  
  jd
  -Original Message-From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 
  Dec 2005 00:20:07 ESTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  

  
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
But why did they not have children until 
they were 1) changed into mortal 
beings

I hate to tell you this Bbut the children generally come 
NINE Months AFTER the FACT!
  Blainerb: Hmm, let's see, chapter three of Genesis 
  ends with the couple being driven out of the paradisiacal garden, then chapter 4 begins as 
  follows: 
  "And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she 
  conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from 
  the Lord."
  Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the 
  garden But no timetable is given.
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  Blainerb:Ha! 
  I agree, it was a good commandment! But why did 
  they not have children until they were 1) changed into mortal 
  beings, and 2) forced out of the garden?
  
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard 
  Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Iwasn't there 
Blaine. If you don't like it, complain to God. He 
ordered it, no

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-09 Thread Blainerb473





Hmmm, bad water gets blamed for a lot. My neighbor's dog drank some 
ethylene glycol anti-freeze off my garage floor and died within 36 hours. 
Went into a coma. Tch tch. That will teach him to use my lawn for a 
pooping ground, huh? 
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:30:53 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Probably 
  something in the water.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  


Blainerb:Ha! I agree, it was a good commandment! 
But why did they not have children until they were 1) changed 
into mortal beings, and 2) forced out of the 
garden?

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-09 Thread Blainerb473







I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines like 
Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. He was 
jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than Cain--until 
Able was"removed,"at least.  

In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:28:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So Cain and Abel were children # 1 
  and #2. and when Cain killed 
  Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where 
  did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve 
  were not the only people created. But that is not a popular 
  opinion.If we go with the standard opin -- Cain 
  was afraid of his own people
  
  jd

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-09 Thread Blainerb473





In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:34:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like 
  us -- which includes the fact that they were created 
  "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden. 
  
  
  jd

They did not seem to be aware of their nakedness until they ate the 
apple. Then they made fig leaf aprons to cover their nakedness. 
Sounds like they were changed in some mysterious way by eating the apple. 
I can see it all now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the first time 
asbeing desirable. She feels uncomfortable, and asks, why are you 
staring at me? He blushes--for the first time--and looks away. But 
steals a glance now and then when she's not looking. :)
Satanassured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which 
indicates she was at that time immortal. Also, God told her if she ate the 
good stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at that 
time immortal. They were then kicked out of the garden, to prevent them 
from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently restored 
their immortality.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

They had another brother called Ready[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than Cain--until Able was"removed,"at least.  In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:28:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:So Cain and Abel were children # 1 and #2. and when Cain killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own peoplejd
	
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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

  Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:20 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE

  On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:01:44 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

From: Judy Taylor 

  So they were created one of two ways. They 
  were either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience - 

  OR they were created like us which is mortal 
  and dying as we live with access to the tree of 
  life?

  More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to 
  what has been said and see the distinction.

  No strawman here 
  Bill.

  When you add the word "dying" to our 
  words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman. God did not create a dying 
  people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. As long as AW 
  were eating of the tree of life, there was no death in them whatsoever. 
  Hence, what we are saying -- or at least I am -- is that God created a 
  people with the potential to die. If you will accept this distinction, I 
  will be happy to continue our discussion. If not, then there is nothing to 
  discuss.

  Bill

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Are you willing to BET your Life on this? They did not seem to be aware of their nakedness until they ate the apple. Then they made fig leaf aprons to cover their nakedness. Sounds like they were changed in some mysterious way by eating the apple. I can see it all now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the first time asbeing desirable. She feels uncomfortable, and asks, why are you staring at me? He blushes--for the first time--and looks away. But steals a glance now and then when she's not looking. :) Satanassured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which indicates she was at that time immortal. Also, God told her if she ate the good stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at that time immortal. They were then kicked out of the garden, to
prevent them from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently restored their immortality. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:34:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like us -- which includes the fact that they were created "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden. jdThey did not
seem to be aware of their nakedness until they ate the apple. Then they made fig leaf aprons to cover their nakedness. Sounds like they were changed in some mysterious way by eating the apple. I can see it all now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the first time asbeing desirable. She feels uncomfortable, and asks, why are you staring at me? He blushes--for the first time--and looks away. But steals a glance now and then when she's not looking. :) Satanassured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which indicates she was at that time immortal. Also, God told her if she ate the good stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at that time immortal. They were then kicked out of the garden, to prevent them from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently restored their immortality.

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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE

2005-12-09 Thread Lance Muir




This IS the sort of thing I was looking for. YES 
I'd like for you to post the 'newer' material.

thanks,

Lance

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Dave Hansen 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 09, 2005 02:34
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject--AE
  DAVEH: Sorry to take so long getting back to you on this, 
  Lance. While I can give you a longer version than before, I 
  certainly can't give you all the details, as I have neither the time (I do 
  need some sleep!) nor the knowledge. 
  But... As you must know, I believe God created 
  us spiritually prior to the creation of the world. IOWwe were spirit 
  beings in a pre-mortal existence. It is my belief that God the Father 
  consists of a spirit housed in a physical body. He created us as spirit 
  beings, with the intent that we could (if we desire and are obedient) become 
  not only one with him, but also perfect (complete, as Perry would suggest) as 
  he is perfect. That basic process is known by LDS 
  folks as eternal progressioneffectively progressing from a created 
  spirit being to one who is like God. As has been often quoted, one LDS 
  authority said...As man is, God once was. As God is, man 
  may become..which is a catchy phrase that tends to excite 
  many Christians, yet it implies the thinking of many LDS folks who believe we 
  have the potential to become like GodIFF we so desire to fulfill our 
  potential to become one with the Lord by being obedient to him. Those 
  who do so, bring glory to the Lord. Those who don't will suffer 
  damnation (hell) to some extent, by impeding their eternal 
  progression. In order that the spirit beings in the 
  pre-mortal existence can progress to the point of gaining a glorified 
  resurrected body of flesh and bone, as the Savior now has, it was necessary 
  for us to be born into a world created perfectly, so to speak. Adam and 
  Eve were created as immortals, and as such were incapable of death. Not 
  only that, but they were incapable of understanding the difference between 
  good and evilthey were innocent. Yes, they were pure and undefiled, 
  but yet they were also naive in their innocence.quite unlike God who knows 
  the difference between good and evil. By placing the 
  tree of knowledge of good and evil in the garden, and then commanding them not 
  to eat of that tree, explaining that they would die IF they partook of the 
  forbidden fruit, God made it possible for them to not only gain the knowledge 
  needed to become like him, but he also provided a way they could shed their 
  bodies of flesh and bloodby dying, which separates the spirit from the 
  body. In partaking of the forbidden fruit, not only 
  did AE subject themselves to the possibility of physical death (which we 
  define as the separation of the spirit from the physical body), but they also 
  were separated from God.which we define as spiritual 
  death. In essence, this resulted in AE experiencing two 
  forms of hellfirst the separation from God, and second being returned to 
  the state of a spirit being, without the ability to overcome that 
  deficit. Hence, they would remain in that eternal state of damnation 
  forever, if it were not for God's plan of 
  salvation. That plan of salvation was prepared 
  before the foundation of the world, and Jesus was chosen to implement 
  it. God prepared his Son to be a perfect sacrifice to atone for 
  AE's (and all of mankind's) transgressions. Not only that, but the 
  Son he foreordained to save us from our (specifically, AE's in this 
  instance) sins also was able to overcome physical death in a process we know 
  as the resurrection. Neither of these impediments to our progression 
  were things we could overcome on our own though. We had to have a Savior 
  do that for us. Due to his resurrection, all will be resurrected and 
  gain an immortal physical body. Due to his atonement, all will have the 
  opportunity to have their sins remitted and return to heaven IF they so desire 
  and are willing to be obedient to the Lord's commandments. That is why 
  it is through his grace that we are saved...nothing we could do on our own 
  could accomplish that salvation. Once Jesus fulfilled that mantle of 
  salvation (both physical and spiritual), the only thing standing between us 
  and God is ourselves. Effectively...We can either keep the 
  commandments, and return to the Lord in heaven, or we can eschew them and 
  suffer damnation (impedance) to our eternal 
  progression. I hope that answers your query, 
  Lance. If you want a slightly deeper (and different) view of the Fall, I 
  can post an interesting perspective of the Fall that was recently posted to an 
  LDS Forum.just let me know if that appeals to you.Lance Muir 
  wrote: 
  

PLEASE DAVE,

I would appreciate the longer explanation so as 
not to confuse those less

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE




Blaine do you read the Bible?
It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why 
not go back and refresh .[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote: 

  
  


I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines 
like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. He 
was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than 
Cain--until Able was"removed,"at 
least.  

In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:28:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  So Cain and Abel were children # 
  1 and #2. and when Cain 
  killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I 
  mean, where did those people come from? I personally 
  believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. 
  But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with 
  the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own 
  people
  
  jd


  
  
  Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! 
  Shopping 
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE






On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  From: Judy Taylor 
  

  
So they 
were created one of two ways. They were either eternal with the 
ability to fall through disobedience - OR they were 
created like us which is mortal and dying as we live with 

access to 
the tree of life?

More added words: you are setting up a 
strawman, Judy. Go back to what has been said and 
see the distinction.

No strawman here 
Bill.

When you add the word "dying" to our 
words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman.

If anyone set up a strawman it was JD; 
he is the one who said they were created 
"like us" which is mortal and the word 
"mortal" well I already gave the dictionary
definition. They were created "in 
God's image" which is both holy and eternal. 

God did not create a dying people 
-- John did not say that, and neither did I. 

JD said created "like us" in 
which case they would be a "dying people"

As long as AW were eating of the 
tree of life, there was no death in them 
whatsoever. Hence, what we are saying 
-- or at least I am -- is that God created 
a people with the potential to die. 


The above is a little different from 
what JD stated ... How about the potential to
fall as Lucifer did. Angels are 
spirits - they don't die. Humans I believe are 
also
created spiritual beings and tho our 
body is perishing our inner man is either
being renewed or beingentrenched 
in even more darkness daily.

If you will accept this distinction, I 
will be happy to continue our discussion. 
If not, then there is nothing to 
discuss.

Bill
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE




Yeah! Innocence turned to lust and caring 
and love turned into pride, selfishness, and shame.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 07:52:03 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:34:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  
Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like 
us -- which includes the fact that they were created 
"mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the 
garden. 

jd
  
  They did not seem to be aware of their nakedness until they ate the 
  apple. Then they made fig leaf aprons to cover their nakedness. 
  Sounds like they were changed in some mysterious way by eating the 
  apple. I can see it all now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the 
  first time asbeing desirable. She feels uncomfortable, and asks, 
  why are you staring at me? He blushes--for the first time--and looks 
  away. But steals a glance now and then when she's not looking. 
  :)
  Satanassured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which 
  indicates she was at that time immortal. Also, God told her if she ate 
  the good stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at 
  that time immortal. They were then kicked out of the garden, to prevent 
  them from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently 
  restored their immortality. 
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


So, Adam and Eve were having children while ithe garden .A possiblility. 

jd-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 07:41:09 ESTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE






I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to one account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than Cain--until Able was"removed,"at least.  

In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:28:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

So Cain and Abel were children # 1 and #2. and when Cain killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own people

jd

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

But why would we assume tht the "cahnge" was anything other than a conscieousness of good and evil in association with the violation of law? Why does this "change" include their mortality? I see no reason for this.

jjd-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 07:52:03 ESTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:34:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like us -- which includes the fact that they were created "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden.

They did not seem to be aware of their nakedness until they ate the apple. Then they made fig leaf aprons to cover their nakedness. Sounds like they were changed in some mysterious way by eating the apple. I can see it all now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the first time asbeing desirable. She feels uncomfortable, and asks, why are you staring at me? He blushes--for the first time--and looks away. But steals a glance now and then when she's not looking. :)
Satanassured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which indicates she was at that time immortal. Also, God told her if she ate the good stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at that time immortal. They were then kicked out of the garden, to prevent them from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently restored their immortality.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


Amen.-Original Message-From: Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE







- Original Message - 
From: Judy Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:01:44 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

From: Judy Taylor 


So they were created one of two ways. They were either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience - 
OR they were created like us which is mortal and dying as we live with access to the tree of life?

More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to what has been said and see the distinction.

No strawman here Bill.

When you add the word "dying" to our words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman. God did not create a dying people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. As long as AW were eating of the tree of life, there was no death in them whatsoever. Hence, what we are saying -- or at least I am -- is that God created a people with the potential to die. If you will accept this distinction, I will be happy to continue our discussion. If not, then there is nothing to discuss.

Bill

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-09 Thread Lance Muir




Bill speaks of 'AW'?? Hm...Freudian slip? 
Bill's favourite FF place? A hidden agenda?
Good root beer? (as close as Bill gets to 'beer'?) 
We had all best ponder this encrypted message from our vaunted 
theologian!

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 09, 2005 09:13
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  
  
  
  Amen.-Original Message-From: Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  

  
  

  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy Taylor 

To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:20 
AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE



On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:01:44 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  

So they were created one of two ways. 
They were either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience - 

OR they were created like us which is mortal 
and dying as we live with access to the tree 
of life?

More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to 
what has been said and see the distinction.

No strawman here 
Bill.

When you add the word "dying" to our 
words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman. God did not create a dying 
people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. As long as AW 
were eating of the tree of life, there was no death in them whatsoever. 
Hence, what we are saying -- or at least I am -- is that God created a 
people with the potential to die. If you will accept this distinction, I 
will be happy to continue our discussion. If not, then there is nothing 
to discuss.

Bill

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



I love it. Judy interprets John !!! If this is an example of your "spirit discernment," you have a long long way to go. 

In the account of A  E, they are mortal beings just like you and I with two exceptions in terms of circumstance: they had the Tree of Life and continued access to that tree was the only stated reason for their dismissal from the garden, and , they had not yet violated the expressly stated will of God. The EFFECT of the fall presents the reader with consequences that are much more involved than we might have expected -- at least for me. 

"In the image of God" is not a reference to the essence of God's existence. Holy and eternal are but two considerations of God. He is omnipresent. He is all wise and has all knowledge. He is all powerful. He is a triune being. Give us a rule of some sort, a path of season, for accepting two of His qualities and not the others. 

The fact of the matter is this - I believe that I can come closer to a biblical consideration for saying the "image" is the need for community than you can for "holy and eternal" 

jd


-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor jandgtaylor1@juno.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 08:09:18 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE







On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700 "Taylor" wmtaylor@plains.net writes:

From: Judy Taylor 



So they were created one of two ways. They were either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience - OR they were created like us which is mortal and dying as we live with 
access to the tree of life?

More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to what has been said and 
see the distinction.

No strawman here Bill.

When you add the word "dying" to our words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman.

If anyone set up a strawman it was JD; he is the one who said they were created 
"like us" which is mortal and the word "mortal" well I already gave the dictionary
definition. They were created "in God's image" which is both holy and eternal. 

God did not create a dying people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. 

JD said created "like us" in which case they would be a "dying people"

As long as AW were eating of the tree of life, there was no death in them 
whatsoever. Hence, what we are saying -- or at least I am -- is that God created 
a people with the potential to die. 

The above is a little different from what JD stated ... How about the potential to
fall as Lucifer did. Angels are spirits - they don't die. Humans I believe are also
created spiritual beings and tho our body is perishing our inner man is either
being renewed or beingentrenched in even more darkness daily.

If you will accept this distinction, I will be happy to continue our discussion. 
If not, then there is nothing to discuss.

Bill
 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE




Why? The apostle Paul is good enough for me - He 
used "great plainness of speech"
with no hidden agendas. Nothing was done in a 
corner.

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:21:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Bill speaks of 'AW'?? Hm...Freudian 
  slip? Bill's favourite FF place? A hidden agenda?
  Good root beer? (as close as Bill gets to 
  'beer'?) We had all best ponder this encrypted message 
  from our vaunted theologian!
  
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Amen.-Original Message-From: Taylor 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: 
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE







  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 5:20 
  AM
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  
  
  
  On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:01:44 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  writes:
  
From: Judy 
Taylor 

  
  So they were created one of two ways. 
  They were either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience 
  - 
  OR they were created like us which is mortal 
  and dying as we live with access to the 
  tree of life?
  
  More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to 
  what has been said and see the distinction.
  
  No strawman here 
  Bill.
  
  When you add the word "dying" to our 
  words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman. God did not create a dying 
  people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. As long as AW 
  were eating of the tree of life, there was no death in them 
  whatsoever. Hence, what we are saying -- or at least I am -- is that 
  God created a people with the potential to die. If you will accept 
  this distinction, I will be happy to continue our discussion. If not, 
  then there is nothing to discuss.
  
  Bill
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


Think "Tree of Life" for starters.-Original Message-From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 06:23:29 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



What is the evidence?

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 04:20:21 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Agreed.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 



Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like us -- which includes the fact that they were created "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden. 

jdFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]





So Cain and Abel were children # 1 and #2. and when Cain killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own people

jd
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]



In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But why did they not have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings

I hate to tell you this Bbut the children generally come NINE Months AFTER the FACT!
Blainerb: Hmm, let's see, chapter three of Genesis ends with the couple being driven out of the paradisiacal garden, then chapter 4 begins as follows: 
"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord."
Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden But no timetable is given.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Blainerb:Ha! I agree, it was a good commandment! But why did they not have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2) forced out of the garden?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Iwasn't there Blaine. If you don't like it, complain to God. He ordered it, not me. I do, however, think it was a great idea. One of the easiest commands to keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to the Fall?? What sacrilege is this?? :)
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think you might have missed something, Blaine. There is no reason to think that Judy would not have been here if there had been no fall. The command to "Be fruitful and multiply" came prior to the fall. See Genesis 1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


Blainerb: You seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter of God are, Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, none of us including your wonderful self wouldeven be here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in their perfect little paradise, never knowing good from evil and not even caring. Butthey would be eternally pure and goody-good righteous Is that what you think the Lord really wanted? 

In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds of wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His creation to eat from. The other tree - the one the serpent was promoting - is earthly, sensual, and demonic. So take your pick. One leads to life and the other to death.
 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)



 judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-09 Thread Lance Muir




JUDY:Did you see that this was an attempt at 
humour? Please say that you did. You do laugh do you not?

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Judy 
  Taylor 
  To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
  
  Sent: December 09, 2005 09:29
  Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  
  Why? The apostle Paul is good enough for me - 
  He used "great plainness of speech"
  with no hidden agendas. Nothing was done in a 
  corner.
  
  On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 09:21:34 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:
  
Bill speaks of 'AW'?? Hm...Freudian 
slip? Bill's favourite FF place? A hidden agenda?
Good root beer? (as close as Bill gets to 
'beer'?) We had all best ponder this encrypted message 
from our vaunted theologian!

  From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  
  
  
  Amen.-Original Message-From: Taylor 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: 
  Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
  Subject-AE
  

  
  

  
  
- Original Message - 
From: 
Judy 
Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 

Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 
5:20 AM
    Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New 
Subject-AE



On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:01:44 -0700 "Taylor" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
writes:

  From: Judy 
  Taylor 
  

So they were created one of two ways. 
They were either eternal with the ability to fall through 
disobedience - 
OR they were created like us which is 
mortal and dying as we live with access 
to the tree of life?

More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back 
to what has been said and see the distinction.

No strawman here 
Bill.

When you add the word "dying" to 
our words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman. God did not create a 
dying people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. As long as 
AW were eating of the tree of life, there was no death in them 
whatsoever. Hence, what we are saying -- or at least I am -- is that 
God created a people with the potential to die. If you will accept 
this distinction, I will be happy to continue our discussion. If 
not, then there is nothing to discuss.

Bill
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE






On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:33:15 -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  
  
  I love it. Judy interprets John !!! If this is an 
  example of your "spirit discernment," you have a long long way to 
  go. 
  
  Correction! Judy has no interest in 
  interpreting John. Judy reads and understands scripture.
  
  In the account of A  E, they are mortal beings just like you 
  and I with two exceptions in terms of circumstance: they had the Tree of 
  Life and continued access to that tree was the only stated reason for their 
  dismissal from the garden, and , they had not yet 
  violated the expressly stated will of God. 
  
  Then why the warning that if they ate of the 
  wrong tree they would die if they were already mortal (like us) temporal ie passing away? God said they would die, 
  Satan said they wouldn't
  
  The EFFECT of the fall presents the reader with consequences that are 
  much more involved than we might have expected -- at least for 
  me. 
  
  Maybe you are making it a figment of your own 
  imagination JD. If they were like us they
  would have no place to fall to.
  
  "In the image of God" is not a reference to the essence of God's 
  existence. Holy and eternal are but two considerations of 
  God. He is omnipresent. He is all wise and has all 
  knowledge. He is all powerful. He is a triune 
  being.
  
  Image and likeness does not make 
  themCreator rather than Created; but they would have his nature and 
  character and would be spirit 
  beingswith a flesh body just as He is a Spirit. 
  
  Give us a rule of some sort, a path of season, for accepting two of 
  His qualities and not the others. The fact of the matter is 
  this - I believe that I can come closer to a biblical 
  consideration for saying the "image" is the need for community than you can 
  for "holy and eternal" jd
  
  Oh I know JD - here we 
  go again with the "procession and the perichoresis - and the trinity all 
  dancing with each other" Some things never change.
  
  
  From: Judy Taylor jandgtaylor1@juno.com
  

  
  

  
  On Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700 "Taylor" wmtaylor@plains.net writes:
  
From: Judy Taylor 


  

  So they 
  were created one of two ways. They were either eternal with the 
  ability to fall through disobedience - OR they 
  were created like us which is mortal and dying as we live with 
  
  access 
  to the tree of life?
  
  More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to what 
  has been said and 
  see the distinction.
  
  No strawman here Bill.
  
  When you add the word "dying" to our 
  words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman.
  
  If anyone set up a strawman it was JD; he is the one who said they were created 
  
  "like us" which is mortal and the 
  word "mortal" well I already gave the dictionary
  definition. They were created 
  "in God's image" which is both holy and eternal. 

  
  God did not create a dying 
  people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. 
  
  
  JD said created "like us" in which case they would 
  be a "dying people"
  
  As long as AW were eating of the 
  tree of life, there was no death in them 
  whatsoever. Hence, what we are saying 
  -- or at least I am -- is that God created 
  a people with the potential to die. 
  
  
  The above is a little different from 
  what JD stated ... How about the 
  potential to
  fall as Lucifer did. Angels are 
  spirits - they don't die. Humans I believe are 
  also
  created spiritual beings and tho our body is perishing our inner man 
  is either
  being renewed or 
  beingentrenched in even more darkness 
  daily.
  
  If you will accept this distinction, 
  I will be happy to continue our discussion. 
  If not, then there is nothing to 
  discuss.
  
  Bill
 
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)
   
judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
Commandments 
is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


I have to get to the shop. But , quickly, ( you are probably already on the road to work, as well) , it seems to me that man(kind) is first created and then, Adam (as it turns out) is placed into the garden (2:7,8). I would tie 1:26-28 to verse 7 and treat Adam and Eve as a second story. Eve was created in the garden. I think the story of Adam and Eve is the account of the first of the chosen people of God (the Jews). So, I guess I would have to say that only A  E had access to the Tree of Life. 

My conversation with Blaine is somewhat deceiving. I do believe that Adam and Eve could have been having children while in the garden - but I also believe that God madea good number of humans ... Adam and Eve being the first of the chosen. 

Goofy?



jd -Original Message-From: Taylor wmtaylor@plains.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 04:47:39 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



Oh and, hey John, this brings me to a second thought. You said that perhaps God had created other peoples as well as AE. Were they eating also from the tree of life in the garden at the time of Adam's banishment? They had been created mortal as well, right? They would have needed the same sustenance: is thatcorrect? And if so, why must they have been banished with him? Had they also transgressed?

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: Taylor 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 4:33 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Me thinks you are putting words in his mouth, Judy. Had they have continued to eat of the tree of life, they would not havedied, their mortality being the potential to die in the absence of the sustenance supplied by the tree of life: "'And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever' -- so the LORD God banished him from the Garden . . ."

Bill

- Original

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-09 Thread Charles Perry Locke


My 2c worth:

  I have always though of Adam and Eve as created mortal, and that that 
perhaps the eventual plan (before the fall) was for them to partake of the 
Tree of Life and become immortal.


  What would have happened if they had partaken of the Tree of Life after 
sinning and while in the fallen state? Perhaps they would have eternally 
been in a fallen state...literally unredeemable.


  Most likely they were have been banished from the garden as an act of 
mercy to protect them from partaking of the tree of life in the fallen 
state. Then, through God's redemptve plan, they could still gain 
immortality.  Imagine if we all were immortal, and lived eternally in a 
fallen state.


  I do not buy for one moment that god EVER wanted AE to sin. He created 
them with free will ( a necessary trait to give love any real meaning). 
Eve was beguiled by Satan and chose to sin. Did He know they would sin? 
Probably. Did he want them to, or design it so they would? No. Did God have 
a redemptive plan ready, should they choose to sin? Definitely. Had satan 
chosen not to decieve Eve, or had she chosen not to sin, would things have 
been different? Definitely.


  The lie that Satan perpetrated in the garden of Eden to deceive Eve is 
still alive today in some cults...and ye shall be as gods.


Perry



From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE
Date: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 09:11:18 -0500

But why would we assume tht the cahnge was anything other than a 
conscieousness of good and evil in association with the violation of law?  
Why does this change include their mortality?   I see no reason for this.


jjd

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 07:52:03 EST
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:34:55 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Also,  there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like us  --  
which includes the fact that they were created mortal,  hence, the The 
Tree of Life , in the garden.


jd
They did not seem to be aware of their nakedness until they ate the apple.  
Then they made fig leaf aprons to cover their nakedness.  Sounds like they 
were changed in some mysterious way by eating the apple.  I can see it all 
now--Adam looks at Eve, and sees her for the first time as being desirable. 
 She feels uncomfortable, and asks, why are you staring at me?  He 
blushes--for the first time--and looks away.  But steals a glance now and 
then when she's not looking.  :)
Satan assured Eve she would not die by eating the fruit, which indicates 
she was at that time immortal.  Also, God told her if she ate the good 
stuff on the tree, she would surely die--another evidence she was at that 
time immortal.  They were then kicked out of the garden, to prevent them 
from eating the fruit of the tree of life, which would have apparently 
restored their immortality.



--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you 
ought to answer every man.  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org

If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL 
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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

those who are turned off by such rhetoric.They are already "TURNED OFF" What will happen to them are you afraid we will "TURN THEM" into HELL NUMBER TWO?Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:45:44 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:being over protective through fear is one thingDAVEH: That seems to be a tactic of some Christians. For instance, the whole commonly believed scenario about hell being a literal punitive torturous form of
punishment is an example that I see driving some people away from Christianity. I'm sure there will be some SPers who will point to their successes by using such methodology, but that does not necessarily offset the numbers of those who are turned off by such rhetoric.They may be turned off at that moment but who knows whether or not a seed has been planted that God will water at a later date? That was John the Baptists ministry ie "the axe will be layed to the root of the tree of those who do not repent"This is what the wisdom of the world teaches.DAVEH: Have you ever read of some of the examples where groups of people were decimated by diseases brought into their environment by outsiders? Yes and usually these groups
were already compromised by sin. The American indians were pagan god worshippers and the Australian aborigines were animists leaving both wide open.God has given us an immune system which should be able to throw off anything that comes our wayDAVEH: I tend to agree with you on this to a point, Judy. Though I don't view it as an immune system, but rather as inoculation. We aren't born with a resistance to sin, but we achieve it as we become one with the Lord. I think it was Paul who explained the analogy of putting on the armor of God. We aren't born with that armor, but acquire it as we grow in Christ. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His creation to eat from.DAVEH: Then why do you think God kept AE
from partaking of it after they transgressed?Because they would have lived forever in their fallen and demonized state and He will not haveany devils in heaven; but he did make for them a way of escape planned before the foundation of the world.The other tree - the one the serpent was promoting - is earthly, sensual, and demonic.DAVEH:: You've lost me on that one, Judy. Are you saying the tree of knowledge of good and evil is earthly, sensual, and demonic? If so, it sounds like you are implying that God planted something evil in the Garden of Eden in an effort to tempt AE. If that is what you are suggesting, do you have Biblical evidence to support your theory? I am saying He allowed it -to test their faith and
they bit. It came in the form of the serpent who spoke to Eve He was full of wisdom from the other tree. In the gospels you will remember the parable of the sower who sows the good seed which is God's Word (Jesus explains) and the enemy who sows another word making tares which will be separated from the wheat in the last day. Same idea. FWIW.I had the impression that Gen 1 suggests exactly the opposite12] And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good..That the trees God created were good. Reading Gen 2..We are not talking about "fruit" trees here DaveH; in the garden there are
two trees that have to do with different kinds of knowledge or wisdom.[9] And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evildoes not give me the impression that the tree of knowledge of good and evil was in itself evil. If you disagree, I'd like to understand why you think such. Because Jesus says that nothing that goes into the mouth is of itself evil - it just goes in and comes out in the draught. It is what comes out of the heart that defiles the man - and these two trees had that kind of power.Judy Taylor wrote: DaveH writes: FWIW.While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their children will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the world. Not necessarily; being over protective through fear is one thing. Teaching children spiritual discernment in the fear of God is another because then the parent has His power and watchful eye on their side.I see it similar to communicable illnesses. You could raise your kid in a bubble and he would live a germ/virus free life. But once he enters the real world, he would be extremely vulnerable to catching a slew of nasty bugs. Isn't it much better to allow your kid be exposed to such hazards so that he can become inoculated against the ravages in the strength of his youth
than allow such

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Here is the REAL intent of the LDS question on questionable surmisings about which the Bible is silent! They sit back ENJOY the FIREWORKS![EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I love it. Judy interprets John !!! If this is an example of your "spirit discernment," you have a long long way to go. In the account of A E, they are mortal beings just like you and I with two exceptions in terms of circumstance: they had the Tree of Life and continued access to that tree was the only stated reason for their dismissal from the garden, and , they had not yet violated the expressly stated will of God. The EFFECT of the fall presents the reader
with consequences that are much more involved than we might have expected -- at least for me. "In the image of God" is not a reference to the essence of God's existence. Holy and eternal are but two considerations of God. He is omnipresent. He is all wise and has all knowledge. He is all powerful. He is a triune being. Give us a rule of some sort, a path of season, for accepting two of His qualities and not the others. The fact of the matter is this - I believe that I can come closer to a biblical consideration for saying the "image" is the need for community than you can for "holy and eternal" jd -Original
Message-From: Judy Taylor jandgtaylor1@juno.comTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgCc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 08:09:18 -0500Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AEOn Fri, 9 Dec 2005 05:57:00 -0700 "Taylor" wmtaylor@plains.net writes:From: Judy Taylor So they were created one of two ways. They were either eternal with the ability to fall through disobedience - OR they were created like us which is mortal and dying as we live with access to the tree of life?More added words: you are setting up a strawman, Judy. Go back to what has been said and see the distinction.No strawman here Bill.When you add the word "dying" to our words, Judy, you are setting up a strawman.If anyone set up a strawman it was JD; he is the one who said they were created "like us" which is mortal and the word "mortal" well I already gave the dictionary definition. They were created "in God's image" which is both holy and eternal. God did not create a dying people -- John did not say that, and neither did I. JD said created "like us" in which case they would be a "dying
people"As long as AW were eating of the tree of life, there was no death in them whatsoever. Hence, what we are saying -- or at least I am -- is that God created a people with the potential to die. The above is a little different from what JD stated ... How about the potential to fall as Lucifer did. Angels are spirits - they don't die. Humans I believe are also created spiritual beings and tho our body is perishing our inner man is
either being renewed or beingentrenched in even more darkness daily.If you will accept this distinction, I will be happy to continue our discussion. If not, then there is nothing to discuss.Bill judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)__Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Must be it ALL revolves around SEX Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Blaine do you read the Bible?  It was not a coveted sister Cain was jealous of - why not go back and refresh .[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think Eve had a passal of children, they just didn't make headlines like Cain. Cain married his sister, according to
 one account. He was jealous of Able because the coveted sister liked Able better than Cain--until Able was"removed,"at least.  In a message dated 12/8/2005 10:28:04 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:So Cain and Abel were children # 1 and #2. and when Cain killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own peoplejd  Yahoo! ShoppingFind Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shoppingjudyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His
 Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)
	
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RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-09 Thread ShieldsFamily









Interesting thought, jd. Not likely,
but interesting. Maybe the other people were Neanderthals? iz











From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005
9:10 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE











I have to get to the shop. But ,
quickly, ( you are probably already on the road to work, as well) ,
it seems to me that man(kind) is first created and then, Adam (as it
turns out) is placed into the garden (2:7,8). I would tie
1:26-28 to verse 7 and treat Adam and Eve as a second story.
Eve was created in the
garden. I think the story of Adam and Eve is the account of the
first of the chosen people of God (the Jews). So, I
guess I would have to say that only A  E had access to the Tree of
Life. 











My conversation with Blaine
is somewhat deceiving. I do believe that Adam and Eve could have been
having children while in the garden - but I also believe that
God madea good number of humans ... Adam and Eve being
the first of the chosen. 











Goofy?























jd 




-Original Message-
From: Taylor wmtaylor@plains.net
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 04:47:39 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE





Oh and, hey John, this brings me to a second thought. You
said that perhaps God had created other peoples as well as AE. Were they
eating also from the tree of life in the garden at the time of Adam's banishment? They had been
created mortal as well, right? They would have needed the same sustenance: is
thatcorrect? And if so, why must they have been banished with him? Had
they also transgressed?











Bill







- Original Message - 





From: Taylor 





To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 





Sent: Friday, December
09, 2005 4:33 AM





Subject: Re: [TruthTalk]
New Subject-AE











Me thinks you are putting words in his mouth, Judy. Had they
have continued to eat of the tree of life, they would not havedied, their
mortality being the potential to die in the absence of the sustenance supplied
by the tree of life: 'And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of
the tree of life, and eat, and live forever' -- so the LORD God banished him
from the Garden . . .











Bill







- Original

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

No -- "nave"l in their day referred only to an orange.

jd-Original Message-From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 08 Dec 2005 21:54:06 -0800Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

Did they have navels like we have?From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AEDate: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:33:40 -0500Also, there is evidence that Adam and Eve were created just like us -- which includes the fact that they were created "mortal," hence, the The Tree of Life , in the garden.jd-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 09 Dec 2005 00:27:22 -0500Subject: R
e: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AESo Cain and Abel were children # 1 and #2. and when Cain killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a popular opinion. If we go with the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own peoplejd-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:07 ESTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AEIn a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But why did they not have children until they were 1) changed
into mortal beingsI hate to tell you this B but the children generally come NINE Months AFTER the FACT!Blainerb: Hmm, let's see, chapter three of Genesis ends with the couple being driven out of the paradisiacal garden, then chapter 4 begins as follows:"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord."Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden But no timetable is given.[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: Ha! I agree, it was a good commandment! But why did they not have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2) forced out of the garden?In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I wasn't there Blain
e. If you don't like it, complain to God. He ordered it, not me. I do, however, think it was a great idea. One of the easiest commands to keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to the Fall?? What sacrilege is this?? :)BlainerbIn a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I think you might have missed something, Blaine. There is no reason to think that Judy would not have been here if there had been no fall. The command to "Be fruitful and multiply" came prior to the fall. See Genesis 1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Blainerb: You seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter of God are, Judy.
Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, none of us including your wonderful self would even be here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in their perfect little paradise, never knowing good from evil and not even caring. But they would be eternally pure and goody-good righteous.. Is that what you think the Lord really wanted?In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:The trees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds of wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His creation to eat from. The other tree - the one the serpent was promoting - is earthly, sensual, and demonic. So take your pick. One leads to life and the other to death. judytHe that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandment
s is a liar (1 John 2:4)--"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.orgIf you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE


Questions (and admittedly, I am more of a novice on this point of doctrine than most): 

1. At what point in Luke's genealogy does the list cease to be Jewish? 
2. If redemption of the world is through the Chosen People of God and Christ, for a number of reasons, was the embodiment of the Chosen - it seems to my way of thinking that this reasoning would support 
the idea that the People of God (Jews) were never anything other than the Chosen and that would include Adam and Eve.
3. so, I guess I would be saying that Christ's lineage includes all of the Chosen through Adam to God - and that Christ is tied to the rest of the creation (all of mankind) as the Creator.He is the common tie, not the blood line.It is in Him that Jew and Gentile, male and female vanish. 
4. Biblical considerations include this thought: I believe that the "mystery" of the gospel is identified as the inclusion of all of mankind - that this was hidden from the Chosen until revealed in Christ. It seems to me that Mark 4:11 ff has Christ speaking ofthe salvation of all( in several parables)  - not just the salvation of the Jew AND the blindness of the Jew to this notion with Romans 11:25 making this commentary specific and, even, irresistible reaffirmed in Ro 16:25-26 and, again in Eph 3:4-6. 

Such a belief finds you and I accepting the same premise - Christ dying for the world , as a representative of mankind ( as the Creator - jd) and , at the same time, fulfilling this purpose as the Israel of God [hence his blood line through Adam to God (as God) ]

Your friend,
John

If I am wrong on this, I really need someone (esp Bill) to hang in there with me, let me make my points, and deal with my argumentation empathetically. I can handle being disagreed by friends. So -- sock it to me !!









-Original Message-From: Taylor wmtaylor@plains.netTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 04:19:48 -0700Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



I think probably, John, that all humanity had to have come through Adam and Eve. This does not mean that Cain and then Abel had tohave beentheir first children (I guess), but in order for Christ to be the go'el or Kinsmen Redeemer of mankind,there has to have been a common ancestry, i.e., a common bloodline. That is the significance of Luke taking Jesus' genealogy all the way back to Adam: Christ therefore as the Second Man was qualified to represent everyone represented by the first man.

Bill

- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org 
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



So Cain and Abel were children # 1 and #2. and when Cain killed Able -- who was he afraid of -- I mean, where did those people come from? I personally believe that Adam and Eve were not the only people created. But that is not a popular opinion.If we go with the standard opin -- Cain was afraid of his own people

jd
-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Fri, 9 Dec 2005 00:20:07 ESTSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE



In a message dated 12/8/2005 8:27:46 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

But why did they not have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings

I hate to tell you this Bbut the children generally come NINE Months AFTER the FACT!
Blainerb: Hmm, let's see, chapter three of Genesis ends with the couple being driven out of the paradisiacal garden, then chapter 4 begins as follows: 
"And Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the Lord."
Sounds like the fun began AFTER leaving the garden But no timetable is given.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Blainerb:Ha! I agree, it was a good commandment! But why did they not have children until they were 1) changed into mortal beings, and 2) forced out of the garden?

In a message dated 12/8/2005 7:46:18 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Iwasn't there Blaine. If you don't like it, complain to God. He ordered it, not me. I do, however, think it was a great idea. One of the easiest commands to keep. ;-)[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


Are you saying Adam and Eve were capable of having sex prior to the Fall?? What sacrilege is this?? :)
Blainerb

In a message dated 12/8/2005 6:48:37 P.M. Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I think you might have missed something, Blaine. There is no reason to think that Judy would not have been here if there had been no fall. The command to "Be fruitful and multiply" came prior to the fall. See Genesis 1:28.Terry[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 


Blainerb: You seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter of God are, Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, none of us including your wonderful self wouldeven be here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in their perfect little paradise, never knowing good

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE

2005-12-08 Thread Judy Taylor




When all of us stand before God at the great white 
throne judgment... we have to know where we failed. Noone 
will have grounds toaccuse Him of 
beingunloving or unjust because we will have condemned ourselves and 

we will know thiswithout anyone having to tell us... So the test is for us 
rather than for Him. judyt

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 22:36:28 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  To test them 
  DaveHDAVEH: ??? Do you not think God 
  knew their faith, Judy? Why do you think God would need to test them, 
  since he created themknowing they would transgress?Judy Taylor 
  wrote: 
  
To test them DaveH. Faith is 
ALWAYS tested.

On Wed, 07 Dec 2005 07:24:10 -0800 Dave Hansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  He did not plan for them to fall.DAVEH: If that 
  is so, then why do you think he placed the tree of knowledge of good and 
  evil in the Garden of Eden, Terry? Rather than 
  go to all the trouble of preparing a remedy for the fall, would it have 
  not been immensely easier to simply not have put the tree of knowledge of 
  good and evil in the garden? IOWthere must have been a reason 
  for God to put the tree there. Seems like it would be 
  important to understand for what the purpose the Lord placed that tree 
  there. Why do you think, Terry?Terry Clifton wrote: 
  
  This 
seems so obvious that it should be hard to miss, but if you have been 
taught otherwise all your life, I suspect it would be hard to 
accept.God is omnicient, He knew they would sin. He 
did not plan for them to fall. He planned a remedy for the 
fall. Big difference.As to their descendents missing the mark, 
who knows? All we can do is speculate, and speculation often leads 
to 
error.=Dave 
Hansen wrote: 
He wanted Adam and Eve to ruin it for 
  everyone?if they had not they would 
  have saved themselves and the rest of 
  humanity all of the heartache, suffering, 
  and misery that has been the human lot since 
  then.DAVEH: Thank you two for 
  your comments, both of which focus in one facet of the AE 
  situation of which I am most keen. One of my earliest 
  religious memories was a comment a neighborhood kid made to me in 
  which he said AE screwed it up for us by taking the forbidden 
  fruit. He explained that had they not transgressed, we would all 
  live forever without experiencing death. Even though the kid was 
  less than religious later on in life, his comment always struck me as 
  being intriguing, and now you folks have sparked that fire 
  again. I must be missing something about 
  your (forgive mebut let me say, Protestant) belief about the 
  fall. If AE had not transgressed, do you think none of 
  their descendants would have transgressed? In my experience, the 
  best way to get a kid to do something, is to forbid him from doing 
  it! Don't you think that at some point---probably much sooner 
  than later---one of AE's children would have fallen? Or do 
  you believe that of the billions who descended from AE, none 
  would ever have transgressed? Just what are the chances of that 
  happening.zilch?!?!?! Sowhy do most 
  Christians blame AE for the misery in the world, when it was 
  inevitable. From my perspectivenot only was it expected, but 
  it was planned. And...evidently you believe that as 
  well, since you believe Jesus was foreordained to be our Savior from 
  before the world was created.that it was planned? (Please 
  let me know if you do not believe such.) Yet you apparently 
  don't believe that God wanted it to happen that way. Do you see 
  why your perspective perplexes me? It doesn't seem 
  logical. Like I saidperhaps I'm missing something about the 
  way you understand it.
  Judy wrote:I think they did nto have 
  to transgress and if they had not they would have saved themselves 
  and the rest of
  humanity all of the heartache, suffering, 
  and misery that has been the human lot since then. Why would 
  the Lord
  want that for 
  them/us?Terry Clifton wrote: 
  God 
hates sin, Dave, more than I hate liver. I will never eat liver, no 
matter how many onions you use to cover it, no matter how many times 
I am given that option. God will give you the option, but it 
is not His desire. I think that must be one of the toughest parts of 
being God, wanting what is best for His people, yet allowing them to 
make choices

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE





I won't speculate, Dave, but I should point out that monkeys and horses
do not have a soul.
==

Dave Hansen wrote:

  
  He knew they would sin. He did not plan
for them to fall. He planned a remedy for the fall. Big difference.
  
DAVEH: I don't quite see the difference, Terry. However, I will
admit to being biased by my belief that He did plan
for them to fall.
  
  As to their descendants missing the mark, who knows? All we
can
do is
speculate, and speculation often leads to error.
  
DAVEH: I respectfully disagree on this one, Terry. IMHO, it is safe
to speculate that some (if not most) of AE's descendants would
have transgressed. Look at AEit didn't take them too long to
transgress. Do you think Cain, Hitler or any of the other villains of
history would have remained angels? I submit to you that there would
proportionally be very few who would not have transgressed. Consider
another example. Adults have preached to kids ad nauseam to avoid
smoking, alcohol, sex and drugs. Just denying them such, entices many
it seems. Sowould you reasonably expect any but a few of
AE's descendants to withstand the temptations that Eve failed to
avoid?
  
 Here's something to ponder: What effect would monkeys, horses or
whatever animals inhabiting the Garden of Eden eating the forbidden
fruit have had IFF AE hadn't?
  
Terry Clifton wrote:
  



This seems so obvious that it should be hard to miss, but if you have
been taught otherwise all your life, I suspect it would be hard to
accept.
God is omnicient, He knew they would sin. He did not plan
for them to fall. He planned a remedy for the fall. Big difference.
As to their descendents missing the mark, who knows? All we
can do is
speculate, and speculation often leads to error.
=


Dave Hansen wrote:

  
  
  He wanted Adam and Eve to
ruin it for everyone?
  
  if they had not they would have saved
themselves and the rest of
  humanity all of the heartache,
suffering,
and misery that has been the human lot since then.
  
  
DAVEH: Thank you two for your comments, both of which focus in one
facet of the AE situation of which I am most keen. One of my
earliest religious memories was a comment a neighborhood kid made to me
in which he said AE screwed it up for us by taking the forbidden
fruit. He explained that had they not transgressed, we would all live
forever without experiencing death. Even though the kid was less than
religious later on in life, his comment always struck me as being
intriguing, and now you folks have sparked that fire again.
  
 I must be missing something about your (forgive mebut let me
say, Protestant) belief about the fall. If AE had not
transgressed, do you think none of their descendants would have
transgressed? In my experience, the best way to get a kid to do
something, is to forbid him from doing it! Don't you think that at
some point---probably much sooner than later---one of AE's
children would have fallen? Or do you believe that of the billions who
descended from AE, none would ever have transgressed? Just what
are the chances of that happening.zilch?!?!?!
  
 Sowhy do most Christians blame AE for the misery in the
world, when it was inevitable. From my perspectivenot only was it
expected, but it was planned. And...evidently you believe that as
well, since you believe Jesus was foreordained to be our Savior from
before the world was created.that it was planned? (Please let me
know if you do not believe such.) Yet you apparently don't believe
that God wanted it to happen that way. Do you see why your perspective
perplexes me? It doesn't seem logical. Like I saidperhaps I'm
missing something about the way you understand it.
  
  
  
  Judy wrote:
  
I think they did nto have to transgress and if they had not they
would have saved themselves and the rest of
  humanity all of the heartache,
suffering,
and misery that has been the human lot since then. Why would the
Lord
  want that for them/us?
  
  
Terry Clifton wrote:
  


God hates sin, Dave, more than I hate liver. I will never eat liver, no
matter how many onions you use to cover it, no matter how many times I
am given that option. God will give you the option, but it is not His
desire. I think that must be one of the toughest parts of being God,
wanting what is best for His people, yet allowing them to make choices
that bring pain and death.

Look around you. Child molesters, burglars, robbers, selfishness,
starvation, disease.Do you think that maybe He wanted Adam and Eve
to
ruin it for everyone?


Dave Hansen wrote:

  
DAVEH: One more fact from your perspective, Terry.I assume
you believe that God did not want AE to sin though, even though he

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE





I truly wish you could see this ,Dave, because it is important to our
understanding. The tree was there for a reason. God could have
programmed every creature to behave exactly as He wanted them to, but
He did not. He even gave angels a choice. He wants us to come to Him
out of love, just as He comes to us out of love. To do that, we must
make a choice. We CHOOSE to love Him. We show that love by living to
please Him. We show our SELFishness by doing what we want to do. We
do not need to disobey to be stronger. We need to obey, for our own
good.
You do not keep your wife in a bubble, but you also do not tell your
wife to go out and play around with drugs or catch aids so that she can
be more resistant to these things. ( I use your wife here because I do
not know if you have children or other family. )



Dave Hansen wrote:

  
   God's desire was for them to remain pure and innocent, just as
would be
the desire of any father for his children.
  
DAVEH: I probably shouldn't intrude on Blaine's discussion with you,
Terry. But, it seems to me that God could easily have kept AE pure
and innocent, had he wanted to do so. For instance, he could
either have kept Satan out of the Garden of Eden, or he could have not
placed the tree of knowledge of good and evil there. Orhe could
simply have not commanded them not to partake. But he didn't do any
of those things. IMO, God wanted AE to transgress for a reason.
  
 FWIW.While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure
and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their children
will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the world. I
see it similar to communicable illnesses. You could raise your kid in
a bubble and he would live a germ/virus free life. But once he enters
the real world, he would be extremely vulnerable to catching a slew of
nasty bugs. Isn't it much better to allow your kid be exposed to such
hazards so that he can become inoculated against the ravages in the
strength of his youth than allow such illnesses to eventually attack
later in life when one is perhaps more vulnerable? I see that somewhat
as an analogy to the tree knowledge of good and evil. I hope that
makes a little sense, Terry. (Though I'm sure some TTers will take
exception.) FTRI don't think that is the sole reason for the
tree though.
  
 It is obvious that God did not expect his creations to remain
pure and innocent, and he knew that they would not remain so in the
situation he placed them. But it was necessary for them to go through
that process for a specific reason, as I don't believe God was just
wishfully hoping they would remain pure and innocent.
  
 I do appreciate you sharing your belief about it though, Terry.
  
Terry Clifton wrote:
  


 God's desire was for them to remain pure and innocent, just as
would be
the desire of any father for his children. The tree was there to
give
them a choice. We always have a choice to make. If eating the fruit
of that tree gave you the ability to know good from evil, what else
would you call it?
==

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  
  
  
  
  In a message dated 12/5/2005 6:15:11 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
  Just the facts, Dave. Fact one: Adam and Eve did sin.
Fact two: God hates sin. 
Fact three: Getting people to sin is the top priority of Satan.
It's over. We know who to blame. Nothing to discuss.

  
  Blainerb: If it is all so cut and
dried,
then answer this question: Why was the sinful fruit hanging on a tree
called the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil?
  
  
  And,
another
question--why would God not want them to partake of the fruit of that
tree?
  

  
  
  -- 
~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE

2005-12-08 Thread Dave Hansen





monkeys and horses
do not have a soul.

DAVEH: ??? Aren't you speculating when you make that claim, Terry?
What Biblical evidence supports that theory?

 

Terry Clifton wrote:

  
  
I won't speculate, Dave, but I should point out that monkeys and
horses
do not have a soul.
==
  
Dave Hansen wrote:
  

He knew they would sin. He did not plan
for them to fall. He planned a remedy for the fall. Big difference.

DAVEH: I don't quite see the difference, Terry. However, I will
admit to being biased by my belief that He did plan
for them to fall.

As to their descendants missing the mark, who knows? All we
can
do is
speculate, and speculation often leads to error.

DAVEH: I respectfully disagree on this one, Terry. IMHO, it is safe
to speculate that some (if not most) of AE's descendants would
have transgressed. Look at AEit didn't take them too long to
transgress. Do you think Cain, Hitler or any of the other villains of
history would have remained angels? I submit to you that there would
proportionally be very few who would not have transgressed. Consider
another example. Adults have preached to kids ad nauseam to avoid
smoking, alcohol, sex and drugs. Just denying them such, entices many
it seems. Sowould you reasonably expect any but a few of
AE's descendants to withstand the temptations that Eve failed to
avoid?

 Here's something to ponder: What effect would monkeys, horses or
whatever animals inhabiting the Garden of Eden eating the forbidden
fruit have had IFF AE hadn't?

Terry Clifton wrote:

  
  
  
This seems so obvious that it should be hard to miss, but if you have
been taught otherwise all your life, I suspect it would be hard to
accept.
God is omnicient, He knew they would sin. He did not plan
for them to fall. He planned a remedy for the fall. Big difference.
  As to their descendents missing the mark, who knows? All
we
can do is
speculate, and speculation often leads to error.
=
  
  
Dave Hansen wrote:
  


He wanted Adam and Eve to
ruin it for everyone?

if they had not they would have saved
themselves and the rest of
humanity all of the heartache,
suffering,
and misery that has been the human lot since then.


DAVEH: Thank you two for your comments, both of which focus in one
facet of the AE situation of which I am most keen. One of my
earliest religious memories was a comment a neighborhood kid made to me
in which he said AE screwed it up for us by taking the forbidden
fruit. He explained that had they not transgressed, we would all live
forever without experiencing death. Even though the kid was less than
religious later on in life, his comment always struck me as being
intriguing, and now you folks have sparked that fire again.

 I must be missing something about your (forgive mebut let me
say, Protestant) belief about the fall. If AE had not
transgressed, do you think none of their descendants would have
transgressed? In my experience, the best way to get a kid to do
something, is to forbid him from doing it! Don't you think that at
some point---probably much sooner than later---one of AE's
children would have fallen? Or do you believe that of the billions who
descended from AE, none would ever have transgressed? Just what
are the chances of that happening.zilch?!?!?!

 Sowhy do most Christians blame AE for the misery in the
world, when it was inevitable. From my perspectivenot only was it
expected, but it was planned. And...evidently you believe that as
well, since you believe Jesus was foreordained to be our Savior from
before the world was created.that it was planned? (Please let me
know if you do not believe such.) Yet you apparently don't believe
that God wanted it to happen that way. Do you see why your perspective
perplexes me? It doesn't seem logical. Like I saidperhaps I'm
missing something about the way you understand it.



Judy wrote:

I think they did nto have to transgress and if they had not they
would have saved themselves and the rest of
humanity all of the heartache,
suffering,
and misery that has been the human lot since then. Why would the
Lord
want that for them/us?


Terry Clifton wrote:

  
  
God hates sin, Dave, more than I hate liver. I will never eat liver, no
matter how many onions you use to cover it, no matter how many times I
am given that option. God will give you the option, but it is not His
desire. I think that must be one of the toughest parts of being God,
wanting what is best for His people, yet allowing them to make choices
that bring pain and death.
  
Look around you. Child molesters, burglars, robbers, selfishness,
starvation,

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-08 Thread Kevin Deegan

While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their children will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the world. NONSENSE That is like saying a gardner who overprotects his PRIZE flowers from weeds and pests will end up with flowers that are acutely susceptible to it! Prize Flowers are to be handled with care preferably in a safe environment like a greenhouse. Allowing access to your children to those things that would mean to do them harm is a foolish philosophyhttp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10336018/from/RSS/http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/graham/051127
The Next Generation of LeadershipThe most important people are the ones that history glosses over and such is the case with Home Schooling families. The presence of kids who were Homeschooled in the 1980s and '90s is beginning to be felt more and more in our cultural life. Dr. Brien Ray did a fascinating study on homeschoolers and found that 73% of homeschoolers 18-24 vote compared to 29% of all people their age. The voting percentage goes up to 95% for people above age 25 and they're three times more likely than their fellow citizens to give political contributions. 74% of homeschoolers have taken college courses, compared to only 46% of the general population. Ironically, homeschoolers who were predicted to be social misfits, are more active and involved in their community's politics than the general population.Parents who chose to make extraordinary sacrifices to
ensure their children aren't led astray by the dominant culture are getting extraordinary results as 94% of homeschoolers are holding to their parents religious beliefs.The Homeschooled kids of the '90s will be the leaders of the next century because of hard work, sacrifice, and loving families. I was homeschooled, but am hardly the best or brightest of the bunch. I never thought about it much as a kid, but having been around both homeschooled and public school kids as an adult, I'm struck by the general courtesy, kindness, and advance vocabulary of homeschooled kids. They're a shining beacon of hope in this present darkness, and a reminder of God's abiding faithfulness. And the nay sayers said "O NO how are they going to learn to Socialize?" Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: DaveH writes: FWIW.While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their children will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the world. Not necessarily; being over protective through fear is one thing. Teaching children spiritual discernment in the fear of God is another because then the parent has His power and watchful eye on their side.I see it similar to communicable illnesses. You could raise your kid in a bubble and he would live a germ/virus free life. But once he enters the real world, he would be extremely vulnerable to catching a slew of nasty bugs. Isn't it much better to allow your kid be exposed to
such hazards so that he can become inoculated against the ravages in the strength of his youth than allow such illnesses to eventually attack later in life when one is perhaps more vulnerable?This is what the wisdom of the world teaches. But we are fearfully and wonderfully made and God has given us an immune system which should be able to throw off anything that comes our way when not compromised by sin.I see that somewhat as an analogy to the tree knowledge of good and evil. I hope that makes a little sense, Terry. (Though I'm sure some TTers will take exception.) FTRI don't think that is the sole reason for the tree though.Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds of wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His
creation to eat from. The other tree - the one the serpent was promoting - is earthly, sensual, and demonic. So take your pick. One leads to life and the other to death. judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John
2:4)

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Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

RE: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-08 Thread ShieldsFamily









Im so glad my grandchildren are
being homeschooledthey are brighter, more socially adept (AND prettier) than the average child!!! J iz











From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Kevin Deegan
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005
10:38 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New
Subject-AE







While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure and innocent, a loving parent who
overly protects their children will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the
ills of the world. 











NONSENSE





That is like saying a gardner who overprotects his PRIZE flowers from
weeds and pests will end up with flowers that are acutely susceptible to it! 
Prize Flowers are to be handled with care preferably in a safe environment like
a greenhouse.





Allowing access to your children to those things that would mean to do
them harm is a foolish philosophy











http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10336018/from/RSS/











http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/graham/051127





The Next Generation of Leadership
The most important people are the ones that history glosses over and
such is the case with Home Schooling families. The presence of kids who were
Homeschooled in the 1980s and '90s is beginning to be felt more and more in our
cultural life. Dr. Brien Ray did a
fascinating study on homeschoolers and found that 73% of
homeschoolers 18-24 vote compared to 29% of all people their age. The voting
percentage goes up to 95% for people above age 25 and they're three times more
likely than their fellow citizens to give political contributions. 74% of homeschoolers have taken college courses,
compared to only 46% of the general population. Ironically, homeschoolers who were predicted to be
social misfits, are more active and involved in their community's politics than
the general population.

Parents who chose to make extraordinary sacrifices to ensure their
children aren't led astray by the dominant culture are getting extraordinary
results as 94% of homeschoolers are holding to
their parents religious beliefs.

The Homeschooled kids of the '90s will be the leaders of the next century
because of hard work, sacrifice, and loving families. I was homeschooled, but
am hardly the best or brightest of the bunch. I never thought about it much as
a kid, but having been around both homeschooled and public school kids as an
adult, I'm struck by the general courtesy, kindness, and advance vocabulary of
homeschooled kids. They're a shining beacon of hope in this present darkness,
and a reminder of God's abiding faithfulness.





And the nay sayers said O NO
how are they going to learn to Socialize?

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-08 Thread knpraise

Actually, my youngest daughter (22 years old) has told me why she has decided to NOT hoime school her children .. and itis for much of the same reason as seen in the opening line below. She told me thateach of the eight friends she had at Fresno Pacific U (who were all home schooled) hada very difficult time getting along with those in the school or "fitting in."

My oldest daughter (38 years old) home schools up to junior high age for the same reason.

-Original Message-From: Kevin Deegan [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSent: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 08:38:21 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their children will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the world.

NONSENSE
That is like saying a gardner who overprotects his PRIZE flowers from weeds and pests will end up with flowers that are acutely susceptible to it! Prize Flowers are to be handled with care preferably in a safe environment like a greenhouse.
Allowing access to your children to those things that would mean to do them harm is a foolish philosophy

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10336018/from/RSS/

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/graham/051127
The Next Generation of LeadershipThe most important people are the ones that history glosses over and such is the case with Home Schooling families. The presence of kids who were Homeschooled in the 1980s and '90s is beginning to be felt more and more in our cultural life. Dr. Brien Ray did a fascinating study on homeschoolers and found that 73% of homeschoolers 18-24 vote compared to 29% of all people their age. The voting percentage goes up to 95% for people above age 25 and they're three times more likely than their fellow citizens to give political contributions. 74% of homeschoolers have taken college courses, compared to only 46% of the general population. Ironically, homeschoolers who were predicted to be social misfits, are more active and involved in their community's politics than the general population.Parents who chose to make extraordinary sacrifices to ensure their children aren't led astray by the dominant
culture are getting extraordinary results as 94% of homeschoolers are holding to their parents religious beliefs.The Homeschooled kids of the '90s will be the leaders of the next century because of hard work, sacrifice, and loving families. I was homeschooled, but am hardly the best or brightest of the bunch. I never thought about it much as a kid, but having been around both homeschooled and public school kids as an adult, I'm struck by the general courtesy, kindness, and advance vocabulary of homeschooled kids. They're a shining beacon of hope in this present darkness, and a reminder of God's abiding faithfulness.
And the nay sayers said "O NO how are they going to learn to Socialize?"
Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

DaveH writes:
FWIW.While it may be noble to want to keep one's children pure and innocent, a loving parent who overly protects their children will end up with kids acutely susceptible to the ills of the world.

Not necessarily; being over protective through fear is one thing. Teaching children spiritual discernment in the fear of God is another because then the parent has His power and watchful eye on their side.

I see it similar to communicable illnesses. You could raise your kid in a bubble and he would live a germ/virus free life. But once he enters the real world, he would be extremely vulnerable to catching a slew of nasty bugs. Isn't it much better to allow your kid be exposed to such hazards so that he can become inoculated against the ravages in the strength of his youth than allow such illnesses to eventually attack later in life when one is perhaps more vulnerable?

This is what the wisdom of the world teaches. But we are fearfully and wonderfully made and God has given us an immune system which should be able to throw off anything that comes our way when not compromised by sin.

I see that somewhat as an analogy to the tree knowledge of good and evil. I hope that makes a little sense, Terry. (Though I'm sure some TTers will take exception.) FTRI don't think that is the sole reason for the tree though.

Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds of wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His creation to eat from. The other tree - the one the serpent was promoting - is earthly, sensual, and demonic. So take your pick. One leads to life and the other to death.
judyt He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments is a liar (1 John 2:4)

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Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE

2005-12-08 Thread Blainerb473





Blainerb: You seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a daughter 
of God are, Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the forbidden fruit, 
none of us including your wonderful self wouldeven be 
here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in their perfect little 
paradise, never knowing good from evil and not even caring. Butthey 
would be eternally pure and goody-good righteous. Is that what you think 
the Lord really wanted? 

In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  
  Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the two kinds 
  of wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of good fruit" 
  and this is the tree God wanted His creation to eat from. The other tree 
  - the one the serpent was promoting - is earthly, sensual, and demonic. 
  So take your pick. One leads to life and the other to 
  death.
   
  judyt 
  He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His 
  Commandments 
  is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject-AE





I think you might have missed something, Blaine. There is no reason to
think that Judy would not have been here if there had been no fall.
The command to "Be fruitful and multiply" came prior to the fall. See
Genesis 1:28.
Terry

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
  
  Blainerb: You seem to be forgetting how wonderful you as a
daughter of God are, Judy. Without Adam and Eve's partaking of the
forbidden fruit, none of us including your wonderful self wouldeven
be here--Adam and Eve would just be lounging around in their perfect
little paradise, never knowing good from evil and not even caring.
Butthey would be eternally pure and goody-good righteous. Is that
what you think the Lord really wanted? 
  
  In a message dated 12/8/2005 3:41:54 A.M. Mountain Standard
Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  

Thetrees in the garden DaveH are the
two kinds of wisdom. The tree of life is "pure, peaceable, and full of
good fruit" and this is the tree God wanted His creation to eat from.
The other tree - the one the serpent was promoting - is earthly,
sensual, and demonic. So take your pick. One leads to life and the
other to death.




judyt 
He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments
 is a liar (1 John 2:4)

Re: [TruthTalk] New Subject--AE