Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Sean Heskett]

It was a group effort by a big group of entities, WISPA had a lot of
influence to make 850Mhz of the 1200mhz available for outdoor PMP.

-Sean


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:14 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> So did WISPA make this happen?  Or was it the millions these companies
> dropped that made it happen?
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 9:51 PM, Eric Nielsen  wrote:
>
> The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name
> companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you’ve heard of
> them. They’re interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power
> (WiFi6) usage.
>
> I’m certain they’ve dropped millions lobbying for this.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out
>> of the goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the
>> common man/small business.
>>
>> So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:
>>
>>> FCC has total authority over these bands.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser <
>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act
 of Congress?


 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser <
 er...@northcentraltower.com> wrote:

> yes you are right.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 815-570-3101
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> More like 4.9 to 7.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>>
>>
>>
>> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
>> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
>> proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a 
>> reliability
>> standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in 
>> general.
>>  What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
>> to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erich Kaiser
>>
>> North Central Tower
>>
>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>>
>> Office: 815-570-3101
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>>
>>
>>
>> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
>> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with 
>> an
>> AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It 
>> must
>> have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
>> "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably 
>> conservative,
>> so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
>> bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>>
>>
>> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC.
>> It is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
>> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
>> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
>> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and 
>> the
>> directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That 
>> is
>> likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
>> and ours, will be standard power.
>>
>> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC.
>> Like cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
>> AFC-controlled devices."
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
>> Gigahertz today.
>>
>> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Ken Hohhof]

But unlike 11/18/23 GHz it can be used for PTP links >10 miles based on rain 
fade characteristics.  And there are many existing links.  Just saying your 
spectrum would be nice for indoor WiFi doesn’t make them go away, and the 
service carried on those existing links is often critical traffic.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Kurt Fankhauser
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 10:29 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

 

Honestly I think that 6ghz licensed is becoming less practical. As more and 
more fiber is run to the tower the 6ghz band would be much more better utilized 
for last mile PTMP and indoor wifi.

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 10:30 PM Tim Reichhart mailto:timreichh...@hometowncable.net> > wrote:

I dont think it was WISPA I think other companies had there fingers in it WISPA 
isnt that big in DC like some of these other companies.

 

 

 


  _  


-Original Message-
From: "Matt Hoppes" mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: 04/23/20 10:14
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

So did WISPA make this happen?  Or was it the millions these companies dropped 
that made it happen?


On Apr 23, 2020, at 9:51 PM, Eric Nielsen mailto:ericlniel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name 
companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you've heard of them. 
They're interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power (WiFi6) usage.

 

I'm certain they've dropped millions lobbying for this.

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > wrote:

There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out of the 
goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the common 
man/small business. 

 

So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy mailto:thardy...@gmail.com> > wrote:

FCC has total authority over these bands.

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser mailto:lists.wavel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of 
Congress?

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser mailto:er...@northcentraltower.com> > wrote:

yes you are right.

 




Erich Kaiser

North Central Tower

er...@northcentraltower.com  

Office: 815-570-3101

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

More like 4.9 to 7.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

 

Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean heavily, so 
really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum proposed will 
likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability standpoint it will 
be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.   What about the 
Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able to cover the entire 
band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...

 

 

 

 

 




Erich Kaiser

North Central Tower

er...@northcentraltower.com  

Office: 815-570-3101

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:

 

"There are really two different types of devices approved today. A Standard 
Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an AFC that 
determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must have 
geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the "client AP" 
is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative, so the licensed 
PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole bunch of companies 
have already been working on AFCs.


The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It is 
limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be weatherproof, 
must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24 dBm). Since those can 
use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit concerned. But between building 
entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the directionality of the FS dishes, 
harmful interference is unlikely. That is likely to be a volume market for 
Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff, and ours, will be standard power.

The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like cell 
phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for AFC-controlled 
devices."

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yep...lots of buzz from this

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

WISPA said they are waiting for them 

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Honestly I think that 6ghz licensed is becoming less practical. As more and
more fiber is run to the tower the 6ghz band would be much more better
utilized for last mile PTMP and indoor wifi.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 10:30 PM Tim Reichhart <
timreichh...@hometowncable.net> wrote:

> I dont think it was WISPA I think other companies had there fingers in it
> WISPA isnt that big in DC like some of these other companies.
>
>
>
>
> --
> -Original Message-
> From: "Matt Hoppes" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Date: 04/23/20 10:14
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>
> So did WISPA make this happen?  Or was it the millions these companies
> dropped that made it happen?
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 9:51 PM, Eric Nielsen  wrote:
>
> The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name
> companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you've heard of
> them. They're interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power
> (WiFi6) usage.
>
> I'm certain they've dropped millions lobbying for this.
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out
>> of the goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the
>> common man/small business.
>>
>> So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:
>>
>>> FCC has total authority over these bands.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser <
>>> lists.wavel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act
 of Congress?


 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser <
 er...@northcentraltower.com> wrote:

> yes you are right.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 815-570-3101
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> More like 4.9 to 7.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of* Erich Kaiser
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>>
>>
>>
>> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
>> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
>> proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a 
>> reliability
>> standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in 
>> general.
>>  What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
>> to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erich Kaiser
>>
>> North Central Tower
>>
>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>>
>> Office: 815-570-3101
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>>
>>
>>
>> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
>> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with 
>> an
>> AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It 
>> must
>> have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
>> "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably 
>> conservative,
>> so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
>> bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>>
>>
>> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC.
>> It is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
>> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
>> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
>> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and 
>> the
>> directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That 
>> is
>> likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
>> and ours, will be standard power.
>>
>> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC.
>> Like cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
>> AFC-controlled devices."
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza <
>> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Tim Withrow via AF]

After posting this I seen an article that said they (WFA) was the crusader. 
Wispa seems to be a member of that group as well.
https://www.wi-fi.org/discover-wi-fi/wi-fi-certified-6
On Thursday, April 23, 2020 Tim Reichhart  wrote:
I dont think it was WISPA I think other companies had there fingers in it WISPA 
isnt that big in DC like some of these other companies.



 

-Original Message-
From: "Matt Hoppes" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Date: 04/23/20 10:14
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

So did WISPA make this happen?  Or was it the millions these companies dropped 
that made it happen?
On Apr 23, 2020, at 9:51 PM, Eric Nielsen  wrote:


The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name 
companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you've heard of them. 
They're interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power (WiFi6) usage.
I'm certain they've dropped millions lobbying for this.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out of the 
goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the common 
man/small business. 
So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:

FCC has total authority over these bands.
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser  
wrote:

How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of 
Congress?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser  
wrote:

yes you are right.

Erich Kaiser
North Central Towererich@northcentraltower.comOffice: 815-570-3101




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


More like 4.9 to 7.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

 

Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean heavily, so 
really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum proposed will 
likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability standpoint it will 
be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.   What about the 
Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able to cover the entire 
band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...

 

 

 

 

 




Erich Kaiser

North Central Tower

er...@northcentraltower.com

Office: 815-570-3101

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:


from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:

 

"There are really two different types of devices approved today. A Standard 
Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an AFC that 
determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must have 
geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the "client AP" 
is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative, so the licensed 
PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole bunch of companies 
have already been working on AFCs.


The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It is 
limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be weatherproof, 
must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24 dBm). Since those can 
use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit concerned. But between building 
entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the directionality of the FS dishes, 
harmful interference is unlikely. That is likely to be a volume market for 
Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff, and ours, will be standard power.

The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like cell 
phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for AFC-controlled 
devices."

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:


Yep...lots of buzz from this

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:


WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are hoping 
it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF  wrote:


I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6 Gigahertz 
today.

any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Tim Reichhart]

I dont think it was WISPA I think other companies had there fingers in it WISPA 
isnt that big in DC like some of these other companies.



 

-Original Message-
From: "Matt Hoppes" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Date: 04/23/20 10:14
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum


So did WISPA make this happen?  Or was it the millions these companies dropped 
that made it happen?

On Apr 23, 2020, at 9:51 PM, Eric Nielsen  wrote:



The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name 
companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you've heard of them. 
They're interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power (WiFi6) usage.


I'm certain they've dropped millions lobbying for this.



On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out of the 
goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the common 
man/small business. 

So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:


FCC has total authority over these bands.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser  
wrote:

How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of 
Congress?


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser  
wrote:

yes you are right.




Erich Kaiser


North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 815-570-3101








On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


More like 4.9 to 7.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

 

Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean heavily, so 
really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum proposed will 
likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability standpoint it will 
be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.   What about the 
Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able to cover the entire 
band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...

 


 

 


 

 






Erich Kaiser


North Central Tower


er...@northcentraltower.com


Office: 815-570-3101


 


 


 


 


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:



from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:

 


"There are really two different types of devices approved today. A Standard 
Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an AFC that 
determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must have 
geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the "client AP" 
is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative, so the licensed 
PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole bunch of companies 
have already been working on AFCs.


The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It is 
limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be weatherproof, 
must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24 dBm). Since those can 
use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit concerned. But between building 
entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the directionality of the FS dishes, 
harmful interference is unlikely. That is likely to be a volume market for 
Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff, and ours, will be standard power.

The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like cell 
phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for AFC-controlled 
devices."


 


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:


Yep...lots of buzz from this

 


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:


WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are hoping 
it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.

 


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF  wrote:


I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6 Gigahertz 
today.

any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
Eric Nielsen
571-508-7409
ericlniel...@gmail.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF 

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Matt Hoppes]

So did WISPA make this happen?  Or was it the millions these companies dropped 
that made it happen?

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 9:51 PM, Eric Nielsen  wrote:
> 
> The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name 
> companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you’ve heard of 
> them. They’re interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power (WiFi6) 
> usage.
> 
> I’m certain they’ve dropped millions lobbying for this.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>> There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out of 
>> the goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the common 
>> man/small business. 
>> 
>> So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?
>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:
>>> FCC has total authority over these bands.
>>> 
 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser  
 wrote:
 How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of 
 Congress?
 
 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser 
>  wrote:
> yes you are right.
> 
> 
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 815-570-3101
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> More like 4.9 to 7.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Erich Kaiser
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean 
>> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the 
>> spectrum proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a 
>> reliability standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses 
>> AFC in general.   What about the Antenna being used on these APs are 
>> they going to be able to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz 
>> efficiently?  Just thinking...
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Erich Kaiser
>> 
>> North Central Tower
>> 
>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>> 
>> Office: 815-570-3101
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> 
>> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A 
>> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with 
>> an AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. 
>> It must have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see 
>> how the "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably 
>> conservative, so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with 
>> it. And a whole bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>> 
>> 
>> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It 
>> is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be 
>> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24 
>> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit 
>> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and 
>> the directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. 
>> That is likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end 
>> business stuff, and ours, will be standard power.
>> 
>> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like 
>> cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for 
>> AFC-controlled devices."
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> 
>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are 
>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6 
>> Gigahertz today.
>> 
>> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Eric Nielsen]

The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name
companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you’ve heard of
them. They’re interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power
(WiFi6) usage.

I’m certain they’ve dropped millions lobbying for this.


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out
> of the goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the
> common man/small business.
>
> So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:
>
>> FCC has total authority over these bands.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act
>>> of Congress?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser <
>>> er...@northcentraltower.com> wrote:
>>>
 yes you are right.


 Erich Kaiser
 North Central Tower
 er...@northcentraltower.com
 Office: 815-570-3101





 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> More like 4.9 to 7.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>
>
>
> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
> proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability
> standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.
>  What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
> to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
>
> North Central Tower
>
> er...@northcentraltower.com
>
> Office: 815-570-3101
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>
>
>
> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with 
> an
> AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It 
> must
> have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
> "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably 
> conservative,
> so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
> bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>
>
> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC.
> It is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and 
> the
> directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That is
> likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
> and ours, will be standard power.
>
> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC.
> Like cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
> AFC-controlled devices."
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
> Gigahertz today.
>
> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[TJ Trout]

There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out of
the goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the common
man/small business.

So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:

> FCC has total authority over these bands.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
> wrote:
>
>> How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of
>> Congress?
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> yes you are right.
>>>
>>>
>>> Erich Kaiser
>>> North Central Tower
>>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>>> Office: 815-570-3101
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 More like 4.9 to 7.



 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
 *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum



 Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
 heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
 proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability
 standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.
  What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
 to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...












 Erich Kaiser

 North Central Tower

 er...@northcentraltower.com

 Office: 815-570-3101









 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

 from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:



 "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
 Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an
 AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must
 have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
 "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative,
 so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
 bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.


 The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC.
 It is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
 weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
 dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
 concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the
 directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That is
 likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
 and ours, will be standard power.

 The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like
 cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
 AFC-controlled devices."



 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza <
 losguyswirel...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Yep...lots of buzz from this



 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

 WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
 hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.



 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
 wrote:

 I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
 Gigahertz today.

 any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Tim Hardy]

FCC has total authority over these bands.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of
> Congress?
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser 
> wrote:
>
>> yes you are right.
>>
>>
>> Erich Kaiser
>> North Central Tower
>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>> Office: 815-570-3101
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> More like 4.9 to 7.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
>>> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
>>> proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability
>>> standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.
>>>  What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
>>> to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Erich Kaiser
>>>
>>> North Central Tower
>>>
>>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>>>
>>> Office: 815-570-3101
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
>>> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
>>> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an
>>> AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must
>>> have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
>>> "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative,
>>> so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
>>> bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>>>
>>>
>>> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It
>>> is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
>>> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
>>> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
>>> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the
>>> directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That is
>>> likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
>>> and ours, will be standard power.
>>>
>>> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like
>>> cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
>>> AFC-controlled devices."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>
>>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
>>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
>>> Gigahertz today.
>>>
>>> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Kurt Fankhauser]

How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of
Congress?


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser 
wrote:

> yes you are right.
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 815-570-3101
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> More like 4.9 to 7.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>>
>>
>>
>> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
>> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
>> proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability
>> standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.
>>  What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
>> to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Erich Kaiser
>>
>> North Central Tower
>>
>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>>
>> Office: 815-570-3101
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>>
>>
>>
>> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
>> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an
>> AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must
>> have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
>> "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative,
>> so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
>> bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>>
>>
>> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It
>> is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
>> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
>> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
>> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the
>> directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That is
>> likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
>> and ours, will be standard power.
>>
>> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like
>> cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
>> AFC-controlled devices."
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
>> Gigahertz today.
>>
>> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study

[Steve Jones]

She's my fav

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 7:10 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I assume Steve watches the Ellen Degenerate show.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:03 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study
>
>
>
> Lol
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 11:18 AM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
> I only come here for the degeneracy, if thats going to stop, Im taking my
> toys and going home
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Degenerate? I don't resemble that remark..I am asymptomatic ...
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 5:32 PM  wrote:
>
> Degenerates?  I sir am a proud deplorable.
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:08 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study
>
>
>
> Im pretty excited about this.
>
>
>
> Cambium has been outstanding to work with. Between linkplanner, CnMaestro,
> CnHeat, EPMP, and CnPilot, projects like this are something that a moron
> like me can fumble through to a clean end product. the only thing non
> cambium here is some backhauls and mikrotiks.
>
>
>
> Theres a guy named Josh Powell out of Peoria, guys amazing to find
> solutions on networking who has a great ability to dumb things down so a
> window licker like me can understand it.
>
>
>
> Josh Luthmans probably tired of answering my facebook questions too
>
>
>
> But, even though when this project is broken down to its components, its
> all simple WISPs stuff, Im still pretty proud to have gotten it done. I
> learned a whole lot
>
>
>
>
> https://cdn.cambiumnetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/COVID-19-Education-Response-04222020.pdf
>
>
>
>
> Cambium is amazing, a tiny no account WISP in central Illinois reached out
> to the degenerates at afmug one night, and Scott Imhoff reaches back the
> next day. Next thing you know we are keeping continuity for under-served
> student families. I got to deal with all kinds of cambium folks. they
> showed me how to use the products more efficiently, Theyre really a solid
> company, and im no vendor fanboy.
>
>
>
> The cool thing is we opened this up across our territory to all the school
> districts. other than PMP load, it will not have a huge amount of impact,
> since it egresses the school network and flows opposite our normal
> back-haul traffic in most cases. We are looking to expand this to a
> permanent program.
>
>
>
> We did find out the rural homework gap, in our area at least is not huge,
> one of the districts had already achieved 100 percent access, I cant stop
> talking them up in our community for that.
>
>
>
> We got 6 names today, 2 were good for sure, one shows good, but is in a
> pot i normally wouldnt have considered, 2 are unservicable, but we will
> drive by and verify and one is in range of one of the school Wifi hotspots.
>
>
>
> I could go on and on
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT - plasma jet wand

[Ken Hohhof]

This sounded pretty cool, but in the video it just looks like something
Stanley Steemer would use to clean your sofa.

 

https://news.engin.umich.edu/2020/04/plasma-jet-wands-could-rapidly-decontam
inate-hospital-rooms/

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Nate Burke]

Wife and I just watched 'what we do in the shadow's' on Hulu. Current 
season is airing on FX.  Scripted comedy, Documentary crew following 
around a group of Vampires.  Just Finished 'Ryan Hansen Solves crimes on 
Television' on Youtube.  Although we're big fans of that Comedy format 
so YMMV.


Other shows we like.
Reno911!
Childrens Hospital
Newsreaders
NTSF:SD:SUV
Medical Police
Hotwives
Burning Love
Another Period
Angie Tribeca
Party Down
(see the pattern?)



On 4/23/2020 7:09 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
My wife watches Hulu and Netflix shows...I don't... catching up on Law 
and Order...I got to see almost the complete NYPD Blue series from 
start to finish last year ..still holds up


I might start working Homicide: Life on The Streets.
Now it's a few BBC series, some news..
At 9 pm... TV off...watch a few tower climbing or MMA videos...then 
shoe shining ASMR videos, which I just listen to with headphones...and 
adios muchacho...meemees time.


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 10:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net>> wrote:



Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu.  Was on TNT...

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM

Anyone have anything to recommend?
I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was well worth
watching.
Death of Stalin was good.
Starting to watch Killing Eve.
Devs just got weird.  Meh
Westworld is getting weird too.
Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs.
Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much
of a chick flick for me at the end.
I like High Maintenance.
Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the
creator.  He did Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Jaime Solorza]

My wife watches Hulu and Netflix shows...I don't... catching up on Law and
Order...I got to see almost the complete NYPD Blue series from start to
finish last year ..still holds up

I might start working Homicide: Life on The Streets.
Now it's a few BBC series, some news..
At 9 pm... TV off...watch a few tower climbing or MMA videos...then shoe
shining ASMR videos, which I just listen to with headphones...and adios
muchacho...meemees time.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 10:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu.  Was on TNT...
>
> Sent from my smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
> Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM
>
> Anyone have anything to recommend?
> I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was well worth watching.
> Death of Stalin was good.
> Starting to watch Killing Eve.
> Devs just got weird.  Meh
> Westworld is getting weird too.
> Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs.
> Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much of a
> chick flick for me at the end.
> I like High Maintenance.
> Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
> Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
> BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the creator.  He did
> Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study

[Ken Hohhof]

I assume Steve watches the Ellen Degenerate show.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jaime Solorza
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study

 

Lol

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 11:18 AM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I only come here for the degeneracy, if thats going to stop, Im taking my toys 
and going home

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:50 PM Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Degenerate? I don't resemble that remark..I am asymptomatic ...

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 5:32 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Degenerates?  I sir am a proud deplorable.

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:08 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study

 

Im pretty excited about this.  

 

Cambium has been outstanding to work with. Between linkplanner, CnMaestro, 
CnHeat, EPMP, and CnPilot, projects like this are something that a moron like 
me can fumble through to a clean end product. the only thing non cambium here 
is some backhauls and mikrotiks. 

 

Theres a guy named Josh Powell out of Peoria, guys amazing to find solutions on 
networking who has a great ability to dumb things down so a window licker like 
me can understand it.

 

Josh Luthmans probably tired of answering my facebook questions too

 

But, even though when this project is broken down to its components, its all 
simple WISPs stuff, Im still pretty proud to have gotten it done. I learned a 
whole lot

 

https://cdn.cambiumnetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/COVID-19-Education-Response-04222020.pdf
  

 

Cambium is amazing, a tiny no account WISP in central Illinois reached out to 
the degenerates at afmug one night, and Scott Imhoff reaches back the next day. 
Next thing you know we are keeping continuity for under-served student 
families. I got to deal with all kinds of cambium folks. they showed me how to 
use the products more efficiently, Theyre really a solid company, and im no 
vendor fanboy.

 

The cool thing is we opened this up across our territory to all the school 
districts. other than PMP load, it will not have a huge amount of impact, since 
it egresses the school network and flows opposite our normal back-haul traffic 
in most cases. We are looking to expand this to a permanent program.

 

We did find out the rural homework gap, in our area at least is not huge, one 
of the districts had already achieved 100 percent access, I cant stop talking 
them up in our community for that.

 

We got 6 names today, 2 were good for sure, one shows good, but is in a pot i 
normally wouldnt have considered, 2 are unservicable, but we will drive by and 
verify and one is in range of one of the school Wifi hotspots.

 

I could go on and on


  _  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[Mathew Howard]

You'll just have to start identifying as a dog...

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:34 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> So here in Illinois, pet grooming will now be allowed, but I still can't
> get
> a haircut.  Dogs will be better groomed than humans.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:08 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun
>
> When I get a crew cut am I appropriating skin head culture?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Jay Weekley
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:55 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun
>
> Actually, I can rock an afro.  I was actually looking for my afro pick
> earlier today.  Seriously.
>
> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> > We all knew you were a troll.
> > -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Thursday, April 23,
> > 2020 11:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re:
> > [AFMUG] OT Fun
> > I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so
> > I'll look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.
> >
> > ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> --
> *Jay Weekley*
> *Cyber Broadband
> *
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
> https://www.avg.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study

[Jaime Solorza]

Lol

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 11:18 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I only come here for the degeneracy, if thats going to stop, Im taking my
> toys and going home
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Degenerate? I don't resemble that remark..I am asymptomatic ...
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 5:32 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Degenerates?  I sir am a proud deplorable.
>>>
>>> *From:* Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:08 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study
>>>
>>> Im pretty excited about this.
>>>
>>> Cambium has been outstanding to work with. Between linkplanner,
>>> CnMaestro, CnHeat, EPMP, and CnPilot, projects like this are something that
>>> a moron like me can fumble through to a clean end product. the only thing
>>> non cambium here is some backhauls and mikrotiks.
>>>
>>> Theres a guy named Josh Powell out of Peoria, guys amazing to find
>>> solutions on networking who has a great ability to dumb things down so a
>>> window licker like me can understand it.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthmans probably tired of answering my facebook questions too
>>>
>>> But, even though when this project is broken down to its components, its
>>> all simple WISPs stuff, Im still pretty proud to have gotten it done. I
>>> learned a whole lot
>>>
>>>
>>> https://cdn.cambiumnetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/COVID-19-Education-Response-04222020.pdf
>>>
>>>
>>> Cambium is amazing, a tiny no account WISP in central Illinois reached
>>> out to the degenerates at afmug one night, and Scott Imhoff reaches back
>>> the next day. Next thing you know we are keeping continuity for
>>> under-served student families. I got to deal with all kinds of cambium
>>> folks. they showed me how to use the products more efficiently, Theyre
>>> really a solid company, and im no vendor fanboy.
>>>
>>> The cool thing is we opened this up across our territory to all the
>>> school districts. other than PMP load, it will not have a huge amount of
>>> impact, since it egresses the school network and flows opposite our normal
>>> back-haul traffic in most cases. We are looking to expand this to a
>>> permanent program.
>>>
>>> We did find out the rural homework gap, in our area at least is not
>>> huge, one of the districts had already achieved 100 percent access, I cant
>>> stop talking them up in our community for that.
>>>
>>> We got 6 names today, 2 were good for sure, one shows good, but is in a
>>> pot i normally wouldnt have considered, 2 are unservicable, but we will
>>> drive by and verify and one is in range of one of the school Wifi hotspots.
>>>
>>> I could go on and on
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

Hey, “get off my lawn” is my shtick.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 6:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

It's mainstream and it's generally shit.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:24:01 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Well, the topic of the thread is “billing”.

 

I suspect lots of companies have billing and yes, monitoring “in the cloud”.  
For example, Sonar + Preseem + cnMaestro all cloud based, although the Preseem 
probes would be on-net with all the data storage and analytics and GUI 
cloud-based.

 

Come on, cloud based computing and SaaS is very mainstream, most people would 
probably make fun of us for building, running and operating our own servers.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers.

 

 

It's sorta like my SFP thing...



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)

 

 

I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[Ken Hohhof]

So here in Illinois, pet grooming will now be allowed, but I still can't get
a haircut.  Dogs will be better groomed than humans.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

When I get a crew cut am I appropriating skin head culture?

-Original Message-
From: Jay Weekley
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun 

Actually, I can rock an afro.  I was actually looking for my afro pick
earlier today.  Seriously.

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> We all knew you were a troll.
> -Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Thursday, April 23,
> 2020 11:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: 
> [AFMUG] OT Fun
> I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so 
> I'll look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.
>
> ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>>
>

--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

If you aren't using on-net recursive DNS servers, you aren't taking full 
advantage of on-net cache boxes and peering. Multiple CDNs right in their "how 
to" guides say that the prefixes of the client and the DNS server that does the 
lookup need to be advertised to them via BGP for them to serve those clients at 
all. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Erich Kaiser"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:20:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



We run 6 different network monitor platforms, they all do somewhat specific 
things and are in house. I don't see how you can only run one especially it 
being Pulse which is very limited. As for DNS, there is no reason to run your 
own DNS for recursive IMO, I have one dns server setup for RDNS but we use Open 
DNS for primary and google for backup, been doing that for several years no 
issues. If anything we would look at moving away from using google all together 
and maybe use cloudflare or something as a secondary. VMs are the way to go if 
your software platform supports it. 















On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:00 PM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

It's mainstream and it's generally shit. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:24:01 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



Well, the topic of the thread is “billing”. 

I suspect lots of companies have billing and yes, monitoring “in the cloud”. 
For example, Sonar + Preseem + cnMaestro all cloud based, although the Preseem 
probes would be on-net with all the data storage and analytics and GUI 
cloud-based. 

Come on, cloud based computing and SaaS is very mainstream, most people would 
probably make fun of us for building, running and operating our own servers. 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:08 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers. 





It's sorta like my SFP thing... 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "Ken Hohhof" < af...@kwisp.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives 

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Erich Kaiser]

yes you are right.


Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 815-570-3101





On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> More like 4.9 to 7.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Erich Kaiser
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>
>
>
> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
> proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability
> standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.
>  What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
> to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Erich Kaiser
>
> North Central Tower
>
> er...@northcentraltower.com
>
> Office: 815-570-3101
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>
>
>
> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an
> AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must
> have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
> "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative,
> so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
> bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>
>
> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It
> is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the
> directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That is
> likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
> and ours, will be standard power.
>
> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like
> cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
> AFC-controlled devices."
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
> wrote:
>
> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
> Gigahertz today.
>
> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Ken Hohhof]

More like 4.9 to 7.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Erich Kaiser
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

 

Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean heavily, so 
really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum proposed will 
likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability standpoint it will 
be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.   What about the 
Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able to cover the entire 
band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...

 

 

 

 

 




Erich Kaiser

North Central Tower

er...@northcentraltower.com  

Office: 815-570-3101

 

 

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:

 

"There are really two different types of devices approved today. A Standard 
Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an AFC that 
determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must have 
geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the "client AP" 
is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative, so the licensed 
PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole bunch of companies 
have already been working on AFCs.


The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It is 
limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be weatherproof, 
must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24 dBm). Since those can 
use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit concerned. But between building 
entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the directionality of the FS dishes, 
harmful interference is unlikely. That is likely to be a volume market for 
Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff, and ours, will be standard power.

The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like cell 
phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for AFC-controlled 
devices."

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Yep...lots of buzz from this

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us> > wrote:

WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are hoping 
it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > wrote:

I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6 Gigahertz 
today. 

any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Erich Kaiser]

Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean
heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the spectrum
proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a reliability
standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses AFC in general.
 What about the Antenna being used on these APs are they going to be able
to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz efficiently?  Just thinking...






Erich Kaiser
North Central Tower
er...@northcentraltower.com
Office: 815-570-3101





On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>
> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A
> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an
> AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must
> have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the
> "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative,
> so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole
> bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>
> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It
> is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be
> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24
> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit
> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the
> directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That is
> likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff,
> and ours, will be standard power.
>
> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like
> cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
> AFC-controlled devices."
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>
>>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
>>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
 Gigahertz today.

 any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Sean Heskett]

from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:

"There are really two different types of devices approved today. A Standard
Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with an AFC that
determines what frequencies are available at its location. It must have
geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see how the "client
AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably conservative, so the
licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with it. And a whole bunch of
companies have already been working on AFCs.

The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It is
limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be weatherproof,
must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24 dBm). Since those
can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit concerned. But between
building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and the directionality of the
FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. That is likely to be a volume
market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end business stuff, and ours, will be
standard power.

The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like
cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for
AFC-controlled devices."

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>
>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
>>> Gigahertz today.
>>>
>>> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

Well, the topic of the thread is “billing”.

 

I suspect lots of companies have billing and yes, monitoring “in the cloud”.  
For example, Sonar + Preseem + cnMaestro all cloud based, although the Preseem 
probes would be on-net with all the data storage and analytics and GUI 
cloud-based.

 

Come on, cloud based computing and SaaS is very mainstream, most people would 
probably make fun of us for building, running and operating our own servers.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers.

 

 

It's sorta like my SFP thing...



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)

 

 

I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "David Coudron" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 
monitoring systems since we don’t have the local BMUs grabbing the data.   We 
have moved Sonar pollers out further into 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Erich Kaiser]

We run 6 different network monitor platforms, they all do somewhat
specific things and are in house.  I don't see how you can only run one
especially it being Pulse which is very limited.  As for DNS, there is no
reason to run your own DNS for recursive IMO, I have one dns server setup
for RDNS but we use Open DNS for primary and google for backup, been doing
that for several years no issues.  If anything we would look at moving away
from using google all together and maybe use cloudflare or something as a
secondary.   VMs are the way to go if your software platform supports it.



On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:00 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not
> trying to resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .
> However, we are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a
> scheduling/technician support person and me.That means every hour spent
> upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making sure backups are working, etc is
> an hour not spent building the next tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off,
> I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone else do that.   I also know
> myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job of patching VMs,
> backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as someone who
> does that for a living.  I expect that will change some day, but for now,
> unfortunately that is where we are at.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at
> least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more
> VMs isn't dramatically different.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d
> really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out
> of the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few
> monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and
> reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the
> central office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find
> some sort of distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest
> reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next
> generation network monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a
> feature for feature comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a
> slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have the local
> BMUs grabbing the data.   We have moved Sonar pollers out further into the
> network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to
> remotely maintain again.   I know I am whining about this, but we thought
> we would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and
> I am a little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just
> keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.
>
>
>
> Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we
> haven’t stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.
>
>
>
>1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a
>central database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already
>committed to maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to
>get data from.
>2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that
>we have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to
>core 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

I will flame everyone forever that doesn't use their own on-net recursive DNS 
servers. 




It's sorta like my SFP thing... 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:00:02 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor? 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P 






Josh Luthman 
Office: 937-552-2340 
Direct: 937-552-2343 
1100 Wayne St 
Suite 1337 
Troy, OH 45373 




On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer. We thought Sonar was going to be that. 
3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for. In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS. 


I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)." 



I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

Some things are more acceptable to farm out than others. 




Monitoring must be on-net. 
Recursive DNS must be on-net. 
Authentication must be on-net. 






I would rather almost everything be on-net, but I'm okay with Sonar and web 
hosting off-net. 




Authoritative DNS should be off-net with all zones set up with more than one of 
the global anycast networks as secondary to your hidden master (moving all of 
my companies to that model now). 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:48:09 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate  . However, we 
are pretty small. We have a few Techs, a scheduling/technician support person 
and me. That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making 
sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next tower. For 
me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone 
else do that. I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job 
of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as 
someone who does that for a living. I expect that will change some day, but for 
now, unfortunately that is where we are at. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 





I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer. We thought Sonar was going to be that. 
3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for. In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS. 


I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)." 



I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to something 
purpose-built to monitor. 



- 
Mike 

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Jaime Solorza]

Yep...lots of buzz from this

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:

> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are
> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF 
> wrote:
>
>> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
>> Gigahertz today.
>>
>> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Ken Hohhof]

That’s kind of harsh, or was that humor?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 4:50 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> > wrote:

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)

 

 

I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 
monitoring systems since we don’t have the local BMUs grabbing the data.   We 
have moved Sonar pollers out further into the network to help with reliability, 
but now we have Linux devices we have to remotely maintain again.   I know I am 
whining about this, but we thought we would be a lot closer to our ideal use 
case than where we ended up, and I am a little sore that so many things appear 
to be part of v2 and it just keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.

 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.

 

1.  SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from.   
2.  SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer.   We thought Sonar was going to be that.
3.  Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS.

 

I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are over 400...

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Quoting what was in Ars Technica:

  SpaceX will start testing Starlink broadband service in a
  private beta in about three months and make it available in a
  public beta about six months from now, SpaceX CEO Elon Musk
  wrote on Twitter yesterday. The first beta trials will occur
  in high latitudes, he wrote.

When asked by a Twitter user if Germany counts as a
  high-latitude area for purposes of the beta trial, Musk
  answered "yes." Parts of the US would presumably be included
  in beta trials, given that SpaceX has said it plans to make
  Starlink service available in parts of the US this year.

Germany runs from ~~ 47° North to ~~ 55° North, so that at least
  gets it in the ballpark.


bp



On 4/23/2020 2:31 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  With first customers at high lattitudes...  ???
  
  On 4/23/20 11:54 AM, Bill Prince
wrote:
  
  



Last year sometime, the word was that Starlink would be able
  to provide some minimum level of service one they had 400
  satellites in orbit. As of yesterday, they reached that goal.
  Now Elon is saying private beta in 3 months, public beta in 6
  months.

  https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-internet-service-beta-program/



-- 

bp





  
  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

This guy probably doesn't run his own DNS ;P

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:48 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not
> trying to resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .
> However, we are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a
> scheduling/technician support person and me.That means every hour spent
> upgrading Linux, building a new VM, making sure backups are working, etc is
> an hour not spent building the next tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off,
> I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let someone else do that.   I also know
> myself well enough to know I won’t do as good a job of patching VMs,
> backing them up, and overall operational run of the servers as someone who
> does that for a living.  I expect that will change some day, but for now,
> unfortunately that is where we are at.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)
>
>
>
>
>
> I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at
> least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more
> VMs isn't dramatically different.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d
> really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out
> of the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few
> monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and
> reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the
> central office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find
> some sort of distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest
> reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next
> generation network monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a
> feature for feature comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a
> slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have the local
> BMUs grabbing the data.   We have moved Sonar pollers out further into the
> network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to
> remotely maintain again.   I know I am whining about this, but we thought
> we would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and
> I am a little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just
> keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.
>
>
>
> Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we
> haven’t stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.
>
>
>
>1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a
>central database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already
>committed to maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to
>get data from.
>2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that
>we have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to
>core routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the
>customer.   We thought Sonar was going to be that.
>3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where
>the SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In
>particular, or Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so
>we calculate that ourselves in LibreNMS.
>
>
>
> I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be
> closer to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> "We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)."
>
>
>
> I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the
> up\down 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

Yes, that is something we need to continually consider, and I am not trying to 
resurrect the SaaS apps vs own it and run it yourself debate .   However, we 
are pretty small.   We have a few Techs,  a scheduling/technician support 
person and me.That means every hour spent upgrading Linux, building a new 
VM, making sure backups are working, etc is an hour not spent building the next 
tower.  For me, it is a poor trade off, I will gladly pay a monthly fee and let 
someone else do that.   I also know myself well enough to know I won’t do as 
good a job of patching VMs, backing them up, and overall operational run of the 
servers as someone who does that for a living.  I expect that will change some 
day, but for now, unfortunately that is where we are at.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:49 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP.  ;-)


I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't...  at 
least not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs 
isn't dramatically different.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "David Coudron" 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 
monitoring systems since we don’t have the local BMUs grabbing the data.   We 
have moved Sonar pollers out further into the network to help with reliability, 
but now we have Linux devices we have to remotely maintain again.   I know I am 
whining about this, but we thought we would be a lot closer to our ideal use 
case than where we ended up, and I am a little sore that so many things appear 
to be part of v2 and it just keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.


  1.  SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from.
  2.  SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we have 
the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core routers 
to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the customer.   We 
thought Sonar was going to be that.
  3.  Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the SNMP 
data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS.

I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)."

I've actually been 

Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Sean Heskett]

WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are hoping
it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF  wrote:

> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6
> Gigahertz today.
>
> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Tim Withrow via AF]

I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6 Gigahertz 
today. 

any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are over 400...

[Robert]

With first customers at high lattitudes...  ???

On 4/23/20 11:54 AM, Bill Prince wrote:



Last year sometime, the word was that Starlink would be able to 
provide some minimum level of service one they had 400 satellites in 
orbit. As of yesterday, they reached that goal. Now Elon is saying 
private beta in 3 months, public beta in 6 months.


https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-internet-service-beta-program/


--

bp





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

ETA?

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess via AF
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Dennis Burgess 
Subject: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out


[cid:image001.png@01D61986.E59C5BF0]

10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU

List price: $600


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Darin Steffl]

Kurt,

Those are IPSec results, not actually routed results. I'm not sure why they
didn't put their normal bridged vs routed throughput on the datasheet like
other models.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:25 PM Kurt Fankhauser 
wrote:

> Looks like it can't route much more than 3.4gbps.
>
> CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS Hardware accelerated IPsec throughput test
> Mode Configuration
>
> 1400 byte 512 byte 64 byte
> kpps Mbps kpps Mbps kpps Mbps
> Single tunnel AES-128-CBC + SHA1 303.6 3400.3 353.6 1448.3 354.7 181.6
> 256 tunnels AES-128-CBC + SHA1 302.0 3382.4 378.8 1551.6 376.4 192.7
> 256 tunnels AES-128-CBC + SHA256 302.0 3382.4 378.8 1551.6 376.4 192.7
> 256 tunnels AES-256-CBC + SHA1 300.3 3363.4 374.5 1534.0 374.5 191.7
> 256 tunnels AES-256-CBC + SHA256 300.3 3363.4 374.5 1534.0 374.5 191.7
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:04 PM dave  wrote:
>
>> My thoughts exactly because Im looking at replacing my powerv4 with a 1072
>>
>>
>> On 4/23/20 2:47 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>>
>> Yeah - we need to see diagrams to see what is actually going on under the
>> hood..
>>
>> This is supposedly the "new 1009," so I suspect there are some
>> limitations here.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> So is Tilera now like PPC, they have moved on to ARM?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Seems like you’d need to see the block diagram, are all those ports
>>> directly connected to the CPU, or via switch chips?  And is this
>>> architected as a router, or a switch?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via
>>> AF
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:34 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* Dennis Burgess 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Correction 12x 10Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>>
>>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>>
>>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>>
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>>
>>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via
>>> AF
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:18 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Cc:* Dennis Burgess 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
>>>
>>> 2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
>>>
>>> Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> List price: $600
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>>
>>>
>>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>>
>>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>>
>>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>>
>>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>>
>>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Kurt Fankhauser]

Looks like it can't route much more than 3.4gbps.

CCR2004-1G-12S+2XS Hardware accelerated IPsec throughput test
Mode Configuration

1400 byte 512 byte 64 byte
kpps Mbps kpps Mbps kpps Mbps
Single tunnel AES-128-CBC + SHA1 303.6 3400.3 353.6 1448.3 354.7 181.6
256 tunnels AES-128-CBC + SHA1 302.0 3382.4 378.8 1551.6 376.4 192.7
256 tunnels AES-128-CBC + SHA256 302.0 3382.4 378.8 1551.6 376.4 192.7
256 tunnels AES-256-CBC + SHA1 300.3 3363.4 374.5 1534.0 374.5 191.7
256 tunnels AES-256-CBC + SHA256 300.3 3363.4 374.5 1534.0 374.5 191.7

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:04 PM dave  wrote:

> My thoughts exactly because Im looking at replacing my powerv4 with a 1072
>
>
> On 4/23/20 2:47 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
>
> Yeah - we need to see diagrams to see what is actually going on under the
> hood..
>
> This is supposedly the "new 1009," so I suspect there are some limitations
> here.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> So is Tilera now like PPC, they have moved on to ARM?
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems like you’d need to see the block diagram, are all those ports
>> directly connected to the CPU, or via switch chips?  And is this
>> architected as a router, or a switch?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:34 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Dennis Burgess 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out
>>
>>
>>
>> Correction 12x 10Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via AF
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:18 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Cc:* Dennis Burgess 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
>>
>> 2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
>>
>> Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU
>>
>>
>>
>> List price: $600
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

[Brian Webster]

I have an old police cruiser radio console that had the armrest setup to house 
these printers under the pad and the thermal sheets would print out of the slot 
in the compartment. It kept the printer secured and safe while making it easy 
to tear off any sheets that were printed. In NY that is how they do the traffic 
tickets.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:22 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

 

Hmmm, that just may work.  

 

From: Dan Spitler 

Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:08 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

 

Would thermal be OK? 
https://brothermobilesolutions.com/products/mobile-printers/pocketjet/ 

Warning: they're not cheap.

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:37 AM  wrote:

Is there such a thing as a reliable, non ink jet, mobile printer?  I have crews 
out on construction jobs that need to have things like drill logs and progress 
reports.  Sometimes they run out of a particular form.  Or need a printed copy 
of a permit.  Not sure it is practical to have a printer in a vehicle but ran 
into it again this morning.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[dave]

My thoughts exactly because Im looking at replacing my powerv4 with a 1072


On 4/23/20 2:47 PM, Josh Baird wrote:
Yeah - we need to see diagrams to see what is actually going on under 
the hood..


This is supposedly the "new 1009," so I suspect there are some 
limitations here.


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


So is Tilera now like PPC, they have moved on to ARM?

Seems like you’d need to see the block diagram, are all those
ports directly connected to the CPU, or via switch chips?  And is
this architected as a router, or a switch?

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:34 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

Correction 12x 10Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces.

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium
ePMP Certified *

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net


Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via AF
*Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:18 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Cc:* Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces

2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces

Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU

List price: $600

*LTI-Full_175px*

*Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium
ePMP Certified *

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”

*Link Technologies, Inc*-- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services

*Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net


Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Now there are over 400...

[Steve Jones]

we are all gonna die


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

>
> Last year sometime, the word was that Starlink would be able to provide
> some minimum level of service one they had 400 satellites in orbit. As of
> yesterday, they reached that goal. Now Elon is saying private beta in 3
> months, public beta in 6 months.
>
> https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-internet-service-beta-program/
>
>
> --
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Josh Baird]

Yeah - we need to see diagrams to see what is actually going on under the
hood..

This is supposedly the "new 1009," so I suspect there are some limitations
here.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> So is Tilera now like PPC, they have moved on to ARM?
>
>
>
> Seems like you’d need to see the block diagram, are all those ports
> directly connected to the CPU, or via switch chips?  And is this
> architected as a router, or a switch?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:34 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Dennis Burgess 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out
>
>
>
> Correction 12x 10Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces.
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified TrainerMTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Dennis Burgess via AF
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:18 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Cc:* Dennis Burgess 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
>
> 2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
>
> Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU
>
>
>
> List price: $600
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified TrainerMTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Ken Hohhof]

So is Tilera now like PPC, they have moved on to ARM?

 

Seems like you'd need to see the block diagram, are all those ports directly
connected to the CPU, or via switch chips?  And is this architected as a
router, or a switch?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess via AF
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 2:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Dennis Burgess 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

 

Correction 12x 10Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces.  

 

 



Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP
Certified 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition" 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website:  
http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of Dennis Burgess via AF
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Dennis Burgess mailto:dmburg...@linktechs.net>
>
Subject: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

 

 



 

10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces

2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces

Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU

 

List price: $600

 

 



Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP
Certified 

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition" 

Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services 

Office: 314-735-0270  Website:  
http://www.linktechs.net 

Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com 

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Correction 12x 10Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces.


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Dennis Burgess via AF
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Cc: Dennis Burgess 
Subject: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out


[cid:image003.png@01D6197C.2964CF80]

10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU

List price: $600


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[chuck]

When I get a crew cut am I appropriating skin head culture?

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:55 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun 

Actually, I can rock an afro.  I was actually looking for my afro pick 
earlier today.  Seriously.


ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

We all knew you were a troll.
-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Thursday, April 23, 
2020 11:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] OT Fun
I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so 
I'll look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.


ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:







--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

Back in the early early 2000s it was CentOS.  Mid to late 2000's it was
ImageStream.  After that came Powercode's own product using Axiomtek
hardware.  It still works, but since everyone is using Mikrotik for all
this networking stuff they're migrating to virtual BMU (a vm running the
polling/pinging stuff).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:45 PM  wrote:

> What were BMUs, meaning who made them?
>
> *From:* SmarterBroadband
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:30 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
> I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu
> to make them useful, not sure why
>
> they want you to use seasawsai or whatever
>
> you can host it wherever, locally is better though
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM  wrote:
>
> Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version
> cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be
> telling the boss we need to look elsewhere
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[Jay Weekley]

Actually, I can rock an afro.  I was actually looking for my afro pick 
earlier today.  Seriously.


ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

We all knew you were a troll.
-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Thursday, April 23, 
2020 11:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] OT Fun
I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so 
I'll look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.


ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:







--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT: Now there are over 400...

[Bill Prince]

  
  


Last year sometime, the word was that Starlink would be able to
  provide some minimum level of service one they had 400 satellites
  in orbit. As of yesterday, they reached that goal. Now Elon is
  saying private beta in 3 months, public beta in 6 months.

  https://www.teslarati.com/spacex-starlink-internet-service-beta-program/



-- 

bp



  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[Jay Weekley]

It's already vintage Art Garfunkle.

Ken Hohhof wrote:

Vintage Don King, or vintage Art Garfunkel?  Or maybe Eraserhead?
Actually, I wouldn't recognize Art Garfunkel today.
https://www.artgarfunkel.com/


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:06 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so I'll
look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:



--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com




--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

The cost of running an ISP is that you have to run an ISP. ;-) 




I see a lot of people trying to run server-less, and you just can't... at least 
not while being responsible. If you've got one VM, the work in more VMs isn't 
dramatically different. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:35:53 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc. We’d really 
like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of the 
server/application support business. We have looked at quite a few monitoring 
systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and reasonably priced. 
Additionally, you need to either put them in the central office and live with 
more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of distributed SNMP 
polling solution. One of the biggest reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get 
access to Pulse, and next generation network monitoring. To some extent we feel 
like moved to a feature for feature comparison of where we were at with 
Powercode and a slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have 
the local BMUs grabbing the data. We have moved Sonar pollers out further into 
the network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to 
remotely maintain again. I know I am whining about this, but we thought we 
would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and I am a 
little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just keeps being 
pushed a little beyond our reach. 

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it. 


1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database. Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from. 
2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we 
have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core 
routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the 
customer. We thought Sonar was going to be that. 
3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the 
SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for. In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS. 


I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 



From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)." 



I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to something 
purpose-built to monitor. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -


From: "David Coudron" < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks. It had to do 
with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we could 
get better monitoring data into Sonar. In working with the person at Sonar (I 
don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it should be 
working, but clearly wasn’t. Their take was that this wouldn’t be corrected in 
v1. We needed to wait for the v2 API. 

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS). We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data. 
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience. But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot. What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar. That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance. I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :) 





On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

Powercodes proprietary appliance.  It did the rate plan management (bandwidth 
throttling)  and polling of devices on the network.   From what we could tell, 
they were pretty solid devices.  Never really had issues with them.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:45 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

What were BMUs, meaning who made them?

From: SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:30 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why
they want you to use seasawsai or whatever
you can host it wherever, locally is better though


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
Opinions?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Simon Westlake]

Looking forward to getting you guys on the v2 GraphQL API for exactly that
reason ;)

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:38 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as
> we’re API intensive :)
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
>> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
>> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
>> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
>> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
>> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
>> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
>> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>>
>>
>>
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
>> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
>> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
>> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
>> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
>> it with another tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
>> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
>> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
>> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
>> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
>> troubleshooting tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
>> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
>> enchilada.
>>
>>
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>
>>
>>
>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
>> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
>> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
>> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I will probably be launching a new network 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

What were BMUs, meaning who made them?

From: SmarterBroadband 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:30 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why

they want you to use seasawsai or whatever

you can host it wherever, locally is better though

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM  wrote:

  Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

   

  From: Steve Jones 

  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

   

  I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

   

  On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still 
alive?

Opinions?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

Mikrotik doesn't have an SNMP client and you can't get to the shell.
That's not really possible.  You could maybe tunnel into it and run the
snmpget locally.

Not sure how easy it is to parse, but it's definitely inefficient to do a
ping from the Mikrotik executed via the API.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:36 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d
> really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out
> of the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few
> monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and
> reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the
> central office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find
> some sort of distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest
> reasons to move to Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next
> generation network monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a
> feature for feature comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a
> slightly less reliable monitoring systems since we don’t have the local
> BMUs grabbing the data.   We have moved Sonar pollers out further into the
> network to help with reliability, but now we have Linux devices we have to
> remotely maintain again.   I know I am whining about this, but we thought
> we would be a lot closer to our ideal use case than where we ended up, and
> I am a little sore that so many things appear to be part of v2 and it just
> keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.
>
>
>
> Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we
> haven’t stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.
>
>
>
>1. SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a
>central database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already
>committed to maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to
>get data from.
>2. SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that
>we have the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to
>core routers to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the
>customer.   We thought Sonar was going to be that.
>3. Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where
>the SNMP data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In
>particular, or Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so
>we calculate that ourselves in LibreNMS.
>
>
>
> I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be
> closer to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> "We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)."
>
>
>
> I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the
> up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to
> something purpose-built to monitor.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It
> had to do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so
> that we could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the
> person at Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that
> it appear it should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that
> this wouldn’t be corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.
>
>
>
> We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d
> really like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP
> based data.   Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and
> overall customer experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in
> one spot.  What we’d really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP
> and landing in Sonar and do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.
> That 

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Steve Jones]

whats the comparison to 1072?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:26 PM Dennis Burgess via AF 
wrote:

> Yep, seeing the 8 port SFP+ model retail is 3k ..  under 1k and more ports
> and 25gig ports!
>
>
>
> What 64bit ARM CPU is supposed to do I guess!  We have our stock ordered,
> its not even on the MT product site yet.  Will be a week or two before they
> come in.  We will have significant stock on them.
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:23 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out
>
>
>
> this thing is pretty cheap too isnt it
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:18 PM Dennis Burgess via AF 
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> 10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
>
> 2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
>
> Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU
>
>
>
> List price: $600
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

We have three as well.   We’ll make you a really good deal…….. 

Steve, I will trade you straight up:   1 pound of chicken thighs for 1 BMU.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of SmarterBroadband
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:30 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why
they want you to use seasawsai or whatever
you can host it wherever, locally is better though


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?
Opinions?
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

I hear ya, but it is another system to support/upgrade/backup etc.We’d 
really like to be in the business of building the ISP network and get out of 
the server/application support business.   We have looked at quite a few 
monitoring systems, but haven’t found a good mix of hosted, robust, and 
reasonably priced.Additionally, you need to either put them in the central 
office and live with more traffic flowing over your DIA, or find some sort of 
distributed SNMP polling solution.   One of the biggest reasons to move to 
Sonar for us was to get access to Pulse, and next generation network 
monitoring.   To some extent we feel like moved to a feature for feature 
comparison of where we were at with Powercode and a slightly less reliable 
monitoring systems since we don’t have the local BMUs grabbing the data.   We 
have moved Sonar pollers out further into the network to help with reliability, 
but now we have Linux devices we have to remotely maintain again.   I know I am 
whining about this, but we thought we would be a lot closer to our ideal use 
case than where we ended up, and I am a little sore that so many things appear 
to be part of v2 and it just keeps being pushed a little beyond our reach.

Ideally we would like this to be the case, if it is possible and we haven’t 
stumbled on it yet, we’d love to hear about it.


  1.  SNMP monitoring data collected on the Mikrotiks and passed to a central 
database.   Reasoning – We have them everywhere, we already committed to 
maintaining them and they are close to the devices we want to get data from.
  2.  SNMP monitoring system lives inside of our billing system so that we have 
the tie from customer router to SM to tower AP to tower router, to core routers 
to edge routers all sitting in the same system and tied to the customer.   We 
thought Sonar was going to be that.
  3.  Ability to supplement the Sonar data with some simple math where the SNMP 
data doesn’t provide exactly what were are looking for.  In particular, or 
Mimosa backhauls don’t provide simple utilization data, so we calculate that 
ourselves in LibreNMS.

I am sure we are looking for pie in the sky stuff, but I thought we’d be closer 
to this with Pulse than where we landed by quite a bit.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:21 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)."

I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to something 
purpose-built to monitor.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "David Coudron" 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It had to 
do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we 
could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the person at 
Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it 
should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that this wouldn’t be 
corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data.   
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot.  What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.   That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Bruce Robertson]

Normally people, but with an option on cargo.  We recently flew our 
Pilatus down to SFO with a load of hand sanitizer.  We're a Part 135 
on-demand charter.


I've furloughed myself for the time being though.  The other day I had 
my first flight in over a month - picking up at SLC, dropping off in 
Surprise Valley/Cedarville CA.  That was fine by itself, but while he at 
least sat in the back of the Cirrus, the dude declined the mask I 
offered him, and the purpose of his trip was to come all the way from 
Boston, then meet up with his buddies in the Black Rock Desert in NV to 
go dirt bike riding.  So much for social distancing.  Since I'm 60 and 
have (controlled) high blood pressure, I opted for not putting myself at 
that kind of risk going forward.


Regardless, no way I would fly him back.  Who knows where his buddies 
have been?  Some people just don't get it.


That said, I'm happy to fly cargo trips.

On 4/23/20 11:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
You hauling people, cargo, students or cameras?  Perhaps FWS coyote 
hunters?

*From:* Bruce Robertson
*Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:39 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
Nice. I considered pitching that to my (wealthy) boss for my flying 
gig for the town of Truckee CA, but then I came to my senses.  I'm 
enjoying retirement far too much.  (The flying is my retirement gig, 
keeping me out of trouble.)  Sounds fun though.


On 4/22/20 5:47 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yeah, FISP.  Clean, zero back end systems.  Just keep the light 
moving and collect the revenue.    At least that is what I am 
attempting to pull off...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it 
integrates with Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.


Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage 
of past decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version 
cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to 
be telling the boss we need to look elsewhere


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year. So
at some point I will once again have to try to choose the best
billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode
still alive?

Opinions?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
!DSPAM:5ea1ddd25951981212399!



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I was talking (texting actually) with some friends the other day.
  We got to talking about wide screens for programming. In the world
  of programming, almost nothing is better than lots of screen real
  estate. That prompted my memory for a time my parents took us to
  Saint Louis where we got in on a Cinerama presentation of It's
a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World. All I remembered was this
  gigantic screen that literally wrapped 3 sides of the theater. I
  recall one scene where they placed you in the front seat of a
  taxi, and you could turn your head to look out the side windows.
  My memory is somewhat fuzzy, as this was way back in 1963.
I digress (obviously), but I remember that particular movie as
  being a lot of fun. You have to consider that I was pretty young
  at the time, so my taste in movies was most assuredly juvenile.
  IIRC my parents enjoyed it too.  It was one of the first movies
  where they threw in a couple dozen popular actors.


bp



On 4/23/2020 11:21 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I enjoyed Knives Out.  Normally my wife has to help me
keep the characters and plot straight but I was able to stay
with it until the end.  Even saw the plot twist which is not
normal for me.
   
  Conversely, I had to watch Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy 5
times.  Took notes the last time I watched it.  Pretty sure
I figured it out.  
  

   
  
From: Eric Nielsen 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
  

 
  
  

  In preparation of No Time to Die later this year I’ve
been watching the older Bond films, mostly for
nostalgia. Though terribly cheesy, they’re still pretty
entertaining. All are available on Amazon Prime, some
eve remastered.

 
I also hear Knives Out is wonderful - it’s next on my
  list.

   
  
On Thu, Apr 23, 2020
  at 1:03 PM Gilbert Gutierrez 
  wrote:


  Longmire on Netflix was good until the
last season or two when it became predictable.
 
Gilbert
  
   
  
On Wed, Apr 22,
  2020 at 9:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
  wrote:


  

  
 
Go watch "the last ship" on
  Hulu.  Was on TNT...
 

  Sent from my smartphone

  
   
  -
Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM

 

  
Anyone have anything to recommend?
I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last
  night.  It was well worth watching.
Death of Stalin was good.  
Starting to watch Killing Eve.  
Devs just got weird.  Meh
Westworld is getting weird too.  
Billions starts up again soon... that
  is one of my favs.  
Little fires was interesting in the
  beginning but became too much of a chick
  flick for me at the end.
I like High Maintenance.
Better call Saul is coming to and
  end... sob...
Homeland is ending this week ... sob
  ...
BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if
  you read up on the creator.  He did
  Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Josh Luthman]

Knives Out was surprisingly good! The movie was nothing like the trailer.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:22 PM  wrote:

> I enjoyed Knives Out.  Normally my wife has to help me keep the characters
> and plot straight but I was able to stay with it until the end.  Even saw
> the plot twist which is not normal for me.
>
> Conversely, I had to watch Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy 5 times.  Took
> notes the last time I watched it.  Pretty sure I figured it out.
>
> *From:* Eric Nielsen
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:07 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
>
> In preparation of No Time to Die later this year I’ve been watching the
> older Bond films, mostly for nostalgia. Though terribly cheesy, they’re
> still pretty entertaining. All are available on Amazon Prime, some eve
> remastered.
>
> I also hear Knives Out is wonderful - it’s next on my list.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:03 PM Gilbert Gutierrez <
> mailing-li...@phxinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> Longmire on Netflix was good until the last season or two when it became
>> predictable.
>>
>> Gilbert
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
>> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu.  Was on TNT...
>>>
>>> Sent from my smartphone
>>>
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> To: 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
>>> Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM
>>>
>>> Anyone have anything to recommend?
>>> I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was well worth
>>> watching.
>>> Death of Stalin was good.
>>> Starting to watch Killing Eve.
>>> Devs just got weird.  Meh
>>> Westworld is getting weird too.
>>> Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs.
>>> Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much of a
>>> chick flick for me at the end.
>>> I like High Maintenance.
>>> Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
>>> Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
>>> BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the creator.  He
>>> did Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> Eric Nielsen
> 571-508-7409
> ericlniel...@gmail.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

AFAIK there's no Wu ownership or anything but I don't know their corporate
structure or anything like that.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 2:29 PM  wrote:

> One of the last WISPA events I went to, Bertram had a big black tent in
> the back of the show floor.  Charles was there and I am sure he said he had
> partnered up with Jim.  This was years after Jim bought the company.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Charles Wu at CTI sold Powercode for a while.  That was the last bit of
> time where it was in Utah.  After this, Bertram bought Powercode.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:04 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed
>> hands many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long
>> haul
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of
>>> Bertram.  Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be
>>> misremembering that last part.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>>
>>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>>
>>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from
>>> plat but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS
>>> so, after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the
>>> powercode way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Sean
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>>>
>>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>>> platform.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>>> alive?
>>>
>>> Opinions?
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[SmarterBroadband]

I have two BMUs on the shelf if you need some……

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

BMUs are gone, you can use mikrotik, but they wont give you a virtual bmu to 
make them useful, not sure why

they want you to use seasawsai or whatever

you can host it wherever, locally is better though

 

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:10 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

 

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

 

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still alive?

Opinions?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


  _  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

One of the last WISPA events I went to, Bertram had a big black tent in the 
back of the show floor.  Charles was there and I am sure he said he had 
partnered up with Jim.  This was years after Jim bought the company.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Charles Wu at CTI sold Powercode for a while.  That was the last bit of time 
where it was in Utah.  After this, Bertram bought Powercode.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:04 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed hands 
many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long haul

  On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of Bertram. 
 Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be 
misremembering that last part.



From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing



Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?



From: ch...@wbmfg.com 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing



I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.  

So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.  

Simon is a standup guy.  



From: Sean Heskett 

Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing



Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed. 



we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat 
but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 
18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we 
moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.  



Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)



-Sean









On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:

  I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at 
some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  



  Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still 
alive?

  Opinions?

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Yep, seeing the 8 port SFP+ model retail is 3k ..  under 1k and more ports and 
25gig ports!

What 64bit ARM CPU is supposed to do I guess!  We have our stock ordered, its 
not even on the MT product site yet.  Will be a week or two before they come 
in.  We will have significant stock on them.


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:23 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

this thing is pretty cheap too isnt it

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:18 PM Dennis Burgess via AF 
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>> wrote:

[cid:image002.png@01D61972.AFFB3390]

10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU

List price: $600


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with 
www.towercoverage.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[chuck]

You hauling people, cargo, students or cameras?  Perhaps FWS coyote hunters?

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:39 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

Nice.  I considered pitching that to my (wealthy) boss for my flying gig for 
the town of Truckee CA, but then I came to my senses.  I'm enjoying retirement 
far too much.  (The flying is my retirement gig, keeping me out of trouble.)  
Sounds fun though.


On 4/22/20 5:47 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yeah, FISP.  Clean, zero back end systems.  Just keep the light moving and 
collect the revenue.At least that is what I am attempting to pull off...

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

  I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it integrates with 
Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.

   

  Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage of past 
decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

   

  Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

   

  From: Steve Jones 

  Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

   

  I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version cleaned 
up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be telling the boss 
we need to look elsewhere

   

  On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some 
point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.  

 

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still 
alive?

Opinions?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  !DSPAM:5ea0e5ce5951099816085! 
   





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Steve Jones]

this thing is pretty cheap too isnt it

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:18 PM Dennis Burgess via AF 
wrote:

>
>
>
>
> 10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
>
> 2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
>
> Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU
>
>
>
> List price: $600
>
>
>
>
>
> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>
> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>
> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>
> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>
> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CCR2004 coming out

[Steve Jones]

nm i see you had that too

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:23 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> this thing is pretty cheap too isnt it
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:18 PM Dennis Burgess via AF 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 10x 10 Gigabit SFP+ Interfaces
>>
>> 2x 25 Gigabit SFP28 Interfaces
>>
>> Quad Core ARM 64 bit CPU
>>
>>
>>
>> List price: $600
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *[image: LTI-Full_175px]*
>>
>>
>> *Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE,
>> MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified *
>>
>> Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
>>
>> *Link Technologies, Inc* -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
>>
>> *Office*: 314-735-0270  Website: http://www.linktechs.net
>>
>> Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

[chuck]

Hmmm, that just may work.  

From: Dan Spitler 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:08 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

Would thermal be OK? 
https://brothermobilesolutions.com/products/mobile-printers/pocketjet/ 
Warning: they're not cheap.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:37 AM  wrote:

  Is there such a thing as a reliable, non ink jet, mobile printer?  I have 
crews out on construction jobs that need to have things like drill logs and 
progress reports.  Sometimes they run out of a particular form.  Or need a 
printed copy of a permit.  Not sure it is practical to have a printer in a 
vehicle but ran into it again this morning.  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

[chuck]

I remember those.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:13 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Silent-700-model-745-printing-terminal-w-acoustic-coupler/45180513?hash=item4d9cebcb61:g:3boAAOSwqzFdkWk9

 

Might be difficult to find paper for it though.

 

More seriously, it looks like Brother makes something called a PocketJet with 
mounts and DC  power supplies for use in vehicles.

 

https://www.tessco.com/search#q=pocketjet

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:37 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] mobile printing

 

Is there such a thing as a reliable, non ink jet, mobile printer?  I have crews 
out on construction jobs that need to have things like drill logs and progress 
reports.  Sometimes they run out of a particular form.  Or need a printed copy 
of a permit.  Not sure it is practical to have a printer in a vehicle but ran 
into it again this morning.  




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[chuck]

I enjoyed Knives Out.  Normally my wife has to help me keep the characters and 
plot straight but I was able to stay with it until the end.  Even saw the plot 
twist which is not normal for me.

Conversely, I had to watch Tinker, Taylor, Soldier, Spy 5 times.  Took notes 
the last time I watched it.  Pretty sure I figured it out.  

From: Eric Nielsen 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:07 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

In preparation of No Time to Die later this year I’ve been watching the older 
Bond films, mostly for nostalgia. Though terribly cheesy, they’re still pretty 
entertaining. All are available on Amazon Prime, some eve remastered.

I also hear Knives Out is wonderful - it’s next on my list.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:03 PM Gilbert Gutierrez 
 wrote:

  Longmire on Netflix was good until the last season or two when it became 
predictable. 

  Gilbert

  On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller  
wrote:


Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu.  Was on TNT...

Sent from my smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM

Anyone have anything to recommend?
I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was well worth watching.
Death of Stalin was good.  
Starting to watch Killing Eve.  
Devs just got weird.  Meh
Westworld is getting weird too.  
Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs.  
Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much of a 
chick flick for me at the end.
I like High Maintenance.
Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the creator.  He did 
Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 

Eric Nielsen
571-508-7409
ericlniel...@gmail.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[Bill Prince]

and it turns out he's more like a smurf...


bp


On 4/23/2020 11:19 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

We all knew you were a troll.
-Original Message- From: Jay Weekley Sent: Thursday, April 23, 
2020 11:05 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: 
[AFMUG] OT Fun
I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so 
I'll look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.


ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:







--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Mike Hammett]

"We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS)." 


I've actually been advocating for the exact opposite. Use APIs to pull the 
up\down information into Sonar, but leave the work of monitoring to something 
purpose-built to monitor. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:51:29 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 



I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks. It had to do 
with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we could 
get better monitoring data into Sonar. In working with the person at Sonar (I 
don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it should be 
working, but clearly wasn’t. Their take was that this wouldn’t be corrected in 
v1. We needed to wait for the v2 API. 

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS). We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data. 
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience. But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot. What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar. That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance. I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :) 







On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum < cc...@murcevilo.com > wrote: 



David, 



I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's API. 
Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what you are 
needing. 



On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron < david.coud...@advantenon.com > 
wrote: 




We see the same thing as Mike is referring to. We would really like to get to 
v2.0. There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars saying it 
is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you find out many 
of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate. We have been in 
this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will change anytime 
soon. Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the current feature set works 
for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set. 

We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like to 
do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API. We are also 
hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in v2.0. We 
have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly as reliable 
as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool. 

That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset. I imagine you could 
use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the Sonar to 
Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem has a lot 
of value. It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 





From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Mike Hammett 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall. 



- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 







From: "Sterling Jacobson" < sterl...@avative.net > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 
Text to customer isn’t a feature yet. 

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already? 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Sean Heskett 
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing 


if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only. 



Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
enchilada. 



-sean 





On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I used Plat years ago and was happy with it. 

So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar. 

Simon is a standup guy. 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[chuck]

We all knew you were a troll.  

-Original Message- 
From: Jay Weekley 
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:05 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun 

I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so 
I'll look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.


ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:





--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

Yes, I could see where that would work.   However, we just decided to use a 
SNMP system that would allow us to do that without having to create our own 
database, etc. With the other SNMP system we get the built in thresholds 
and alerting and all that kind of functionality without having to build that 
functionality from scratch.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Cameron Crum
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

David,

Yeah I doubt you could store it back in sonar, but you could create an external 
DB where the math and storage was done with the results from the data pull in 
Sonar.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:52 PM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It had to 
do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we 
could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the person at 
Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it 
should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that this wouldn’t be 
corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data.   
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot.  What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.   That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :)

On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum 
mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote:

David,

I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's API. 
Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what you are 
needing.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get to 
v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars saying 
it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you find out 
many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.   We have 
been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will change 
anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the current feature 
set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 because that timeline 
isn’t set.

We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like to 
do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are also 
hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in v2.0.   We 
have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly as reliable 
as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool.

That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the Sonar 
to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem has a 
lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool.

Regards,

David Coudron


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange

Re: [AFMUG] Coronavirus made working from home the new normal. So the FCC is giving us a new Wi-Fi lane

[Brian Webster]

Actually I think the DECT phones work best because that is actually dedicated 
spectrum for them. If the WISP industry were to also get dedicated unlicensed 
spectrum that only outdoor WISPs could use and not contend with all other 
unlicensed users in the band then things would be a lot better for them as 
well. I believe the reason the DECT phones were given that spectrum is because 
it’s actually a guard band for the cellular/PCS licenses between transmit and 
receive channel plans.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 1:30 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Coronavirus made working from home the new normal. So the 
FCC is giving us a new Wi-Fi lane

 

That was the logic behind portable phones going from 0.9 GHz to 2.4 GHz to 
5.8GHz, then finally DECT 6. 0.9 GHz probably would have been the best option 
because it had the most range, but got trashed with baby monitors, wireless 
weather stations and smart meters. DECT 6 actually work pretty well, but not 
because it's one more than 5, but because it occupied the sweet spot between 
0.9GHz and 2.4GHz.

 

bp

 

On 4/23/2020 10:22 AM, Cameron Crum wrote:

Don't you love it when non-technical people write articles? "It spans the 6GHz 
frequency range, which means it’s much faster than both 2.4GHz and 5GHz Wi-Fi". 
Wow I didn't know radio waves got faster with higher frequency. Now, I can see 
how more bandwidth would allow more throughput, but faster because it's in 6GHz 
just doesn't cut the mustard. And we wonder why so many people believe 5G is 
killing us...

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:45 AM Steve Jones  wrote:

That's awesome a 36 inch ball to bounce through a 32 inch door. Great for the 
room you're in with it

 

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 8:12 AM Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

Oh. Cool. Even less penetration through walls. 


On Apr 23, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/04/22/fcc-approves-new-wifi-spectrum/2997618001/
 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Well, it’s not just the pagination.. For example if we wanted to grab all users 
on x rate, we’d have to get all active accounts, depaginate the data, then call 
for all services, then loop for details on the services. And we end up doing 
that for an average of 3 services on an account over 10k+ accounts, then fork 
it all... causes our sonar instance to hiccup a little. hah

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
> 
> Cassidy,
> 
> I hear you on that. The paginated results can make for a lot of API calls. I 
> wouldn't think it would take a ton of resources though.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:38 PM Cassidy B. Larson  > wrote:
> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but 
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being 
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as 
> we’re API intensive :)
> 
>> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum > > wrote:
>> 
>> David,
>> 
>> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something 
>> I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's 
>> API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what 
>> you are needing.
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron > > wrote:
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get 
>> to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars 
>> saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you 
>> find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.  
>>  We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything 
>> will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the 
>> current feature set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 
>> because that timeline isn’t set.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like 
>> to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are 
>> also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in 
>> v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t 
>> nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with 
>> another tool.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
>> Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
>> could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the 
>> Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem 
>> has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting 
>> tool.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Regards,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> David Coudron
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Mike Hammett
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem 
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>   
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>   
>>  
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  
>> From: "Sterling Jacobson" > >
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" > >
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>> 
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Sean Heskett
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
>> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
>> enchilada.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -sean
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>> 
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>> 
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: Sean Heskett
>> 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Jason Wilson]

Does that mean we will get a 2.0 release party 2.0 in Vegas?

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:06 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>
>
>
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
> enchilada.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 

Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cameron Crum]

David,

Yeah I doubt you could store it back in sonar, but you could create an
external DB where the math and storage was done with the results from the
data pull in Sonar.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:52 PM David Coudron 
wrote:

> I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It
> had to do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so
> that we could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the
> person at Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that
> it appear it should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that
> this wouldn’t be corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.
>
>
>
> We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d
> really like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP
> based data.   Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and
> overall customer experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in
> one spot.  What we’d really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP
> and landing in Sonar and do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.
> That would be ideal, but it doesn’t look like that is possible.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Cassidy B. Larson
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as
> we’re API intensive :)
>
>
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
>
>
> David,
>
>
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>
>
>
> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
> it with another tool.
>
>
>
> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
> troubleshooting tool.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cameron Crum]

Cassidy,

I hear you on that. The paginated results can make for a lot of API calls.
I wouldn't think it would take a ton of resources though.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:38 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but
> it’s at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being
> bad for both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as
> we’re API intensive :)
>
> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
>
> David,
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
>> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
>> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
>> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
>> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
>> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
>> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
>> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>>
>>
>>
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
>> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
>> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
>> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
>> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
>> it with another tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
>> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
>> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
>> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
>> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
>> troubleshooting tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
>> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
>> enchilada.
>>
>>
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>
>>
>>
>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
>> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
>> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
>> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[David Coudron]

I need to go back to the session we had with the Sonar help folks.   It had to 
do with monitoring and using the API to update fields on devices so that we 
could get better monitoring data into Sonar.   In working with the person at 
Sonar (I don’t have written down which one) we both agreed that it appear it 
should be working, but clearly wasn’t.   Their take was that this wouldn’t be 
corrected in v1.   We needed to wait for the v2 API.

We’d like to eliminate our external monitoring system (LibreNMS).   We’d really 
like all of the data to be in Sonar and go to one spot for SNMP based data.   
Preseem is our tool for latency, throughput, data volume and overall customer 
experience.   But all SNMP stuff would be nice to have in one spot.  What we’d 
really like to do is use the data pulled through SNMP and landing in Sonar and 
do some math on it and store it back to Sonar.   That would be ideal, but it 
doesn’t look like that is possible.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Cassidy B. Larson
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :)


On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum 
mailto:cc...@murcevilo.com>> wrote:

David,

I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's API. 
Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what you are 
needing.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> wrote:
We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get to 
v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars saying 
it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you find out 
many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.   We have 
been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will change 
anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the current feature 
set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 because that timeline 
isn’t set.

We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like to 
do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are also 
hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in v2.0.   We 
have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly as reliable 
as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool.

That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the Sonar 
to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem has a 
lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool.

Regards,

David Coudron


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Mike Hammett
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem likely 
to be finished by fall.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: "Sterling Jacobson" mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.

Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?



From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Sean Heskett
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing

if you only 

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Carl Peterson]

I'm kind of interested in what other people do for the BNG side of things.
Does everyone run PPPoE?  Does Powercode have hardware to terminate IPoE?
Auth and CRM are the easier parts to find, but BNG/BRAS, at least for IPoE
seems to be relegated to big players.

If I were starting a FISP from scratch, I think I would look closely at
Calix AXOS subscriber management and a similar setup with CORD.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:16 PM Cameron Crum  wrote:

> David,
>
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find
> something I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations
> with Sonar's API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious
> to know what you are needing.
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron <
> david.coud...@advantenon.com> wrote:
>
>> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
>> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
>> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
>> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
>> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
>> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
>> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
>> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>>
>>
>>
>> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
>> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
>> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
>> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
>> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
>> it with another tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
>> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
>> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
>> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
>> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
>> troubleshooting tool.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
>> likely to be finished by fall.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
>> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
>> enchilada.
>>
>>
>>
>> -sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>
>>
>>
>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
>> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
>> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
>> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I will probably be launching a new network 

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I enjoyed Travelers on Netflix, but you have to enjoy
  temporal anomalies.


bp



On 4/22/2020 5:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Anyone have anything to recommend?
  I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was
well worth watching.
  Death of Stalin was good.  
  Starting to watch Killing Eve.  
  Devs just got weird.  Meh
  Westworld is getting weird too.  
  Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs. 
  
  Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became
too much of a chick flick for me at the end.
  I like High Maintenance.
  Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
  Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
  BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the
creator.  He did Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.
   

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Bruce Robertson]

Nice.  I considered pitching that to my (wealthy) boss for my flying gig 
for the town of Truckee CA, but then I came to my senses.  I'm enjoying 
retirement far too much.  (The flying is my retirement gig, keeping me 
out of trouble.)  Sounds fun though.


On 4/22/20 5:47 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yeah, FISP.  Clean, zero back end systems.  Just keep the light moving 
and collect the revenue.    At least that is what I am attempting to 
pull off...

*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:21 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

I don’t have Sonar, but everyone tells me I should.  And it integrates 
with Preseem, so I’d do that for bandwidth management.


Must be nice to do a greenfield WISP without all the legacy baggage of 
past decisions.  Or maybe you mean FISP, but still.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:10 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing

Are BMUs still a thing?  Who makes the BMU hardware?

*From:*Steve Jones

*Sent:*Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:01 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] billing

I love to hate powercode. ITs been pretty functional, the new version 
cleaned up alot, broke alot. im not mad enough at them this week to be 
telling the boss we need to look elsewhere


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:59 PM  wrote:

I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year. So
at some point I will once again have to try to choose the best
billing platform.

Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode
still alive?

Opinions?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
!DSPAM:5ea0e5ce5951099816085!



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cassidy B. Larson]

We’ve been able to figure out most of our things we need with v1 API, but it’s 
at the cost of an exponential number of API calls. This ends up being bad for 
both us and our sonar instance.  I think we tax it too heavily as we’re API 
intensive :)

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 11:15 AM, Cameron Crum  wrote:
> 
> David,
> 
> I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something I 
> haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's 
> API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what 
> you are needing.
> 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron  > wrote:
> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to get 
> to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and webinars 
> saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the topic, you 
> find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you can’t migrate.   
> We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem like anything will 
> change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make absolutely sure the 
> current feature set works for you, do not assume you will be using v2.0 
> because that timeline isn’t set.
> 
> 
> 
> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d like 
> to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.   We are 
> also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the monitoring in 
> v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current version isn’t nearly 
> as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement it with another tool.
> 
> 
> 
> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem, as 
> Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine you 
> could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but the 
> Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and Preseem 
> has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and troubleshooting tool.
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> 
> 
> David Coudron
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Mike Hammett
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> 
> 
> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem 
> likely to be finished by fall.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>   
>  
>  
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>   
>  
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
>  
> 
> 
>  
> From: "Sterling Jacobson" mailto:sterl...@avative.net>>
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  >
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Sean Heskett
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  >
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> 
> 
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively 
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
> 
> 
> 
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole 
> enchilada.
> 
> 
> 
> -sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
> 
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
> 
> Simon is a standup guy.
> 
> 
> 
> From: Sean Heskett
> 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
> 
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] billing
> 
> 
> 
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
> 
> 
> 
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat but 
> was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so, after 18 
> months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode way we moved 
> to Sonar and haven't looked back.
> 
> 
> 
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about 
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet 
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
> 
> 
> 
> -Sean
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at 

Re: [AFMUG] Coronavirus made working from home the new normal. So the FCC is giving us a new Wi-Fi lane

[Cameron Crum]

Don't you love it when non-technical people write articles? "It spans the
6GHz frequency range, which means it’s much faster than both 2.4GHz and
5GHz Wi-Fi". Wow I didn't know radio waves got faster with higher
frequency. Now, I can see how more bandwidth would allow more throughput,
but faster because it's in 6GHz just doesn't cut the mustard. And we wonder
why so many people believe 5G is killing us...

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 8:45 AM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> That's awesome a 36 inch ball to bounce through a 32 inch door. Great for
> the room you're in with it
>
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 8:12 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Oh. Cool. Even less penetration through walls.
>>
>> On Apr 23, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Jaime Solorza 
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/04/22/fcc-approves-new-wifi-spectrum/2997618001/
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Cameron Crum]

Yeah, Devs kind of jumped the shark last week. I was hoping for something
different.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
wrote:

>
> Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu.  Was on TNT...
>
> Sent from my smartphone
>
> - Reply message -
> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
> To: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
> Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM
>
> Anyone have anything to recommend?
> I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was well worth watching.
> Death of Stalin was good.
> Starting to watch Killing Eve.
> Devs just got weird.  Meh
> Westworld is getting weird too.
> Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs.
> Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much of a
> chick flick for me at the end.
> I like High Maintenance.
> Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
> Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
> BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the creator.  He did
> Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

[Ken Hohhof]

Vintage Don King, or vintage Art Garfunkel?  Or maybe Eraserhead?
Actually, I wouldn't recognize Art Garfunkel today.
https://www.artgarfunkel.com/


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:06 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Fun

I'm contemplating some dire options.  My hair grows out, not downs, so I'll
look more like the guy that lives under a bridge than a hippy.

ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
>

--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

[Jason McKemie]

It probably would need to be thermal, since laser doesn't do so well with
being shaken.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 11:37 AM  wrote:

> Is there such a thing as a reliable, non ink jet, mobile printer?  I have
> crews out on construction jobs that need to have things like drill logs and
> progress reports.  Sometimes they run out of a particular form.  Or need a
> printed copy of a permit.  Not sure it is practical to have a printer in a
> vehicle but ran into it again this morning.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study

[Steve Jones]

I only come here for the degeneracy, if thats going to stop, Im taking my
toys and going home

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 10:50 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Degenerate? I don't resemble that remark..I am asymptomatic ...
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 5:32 PM  wrote:
>
>> Degenerates?  I sir am a proud deplorable.
>>
>> *From:* Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 5:08 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Hit the big time - Cambium Case Study
>>
>> Im pretty excited about this.
>>
>> Cambium has been outstanding to work with. Between linkplanner,
>> CnMaestro, CnHeat, EPMP, and CnPilot, projects like this are something that
>> a moron like me can fumble through to a clean end product. the only thing
>> non cambium here is some backhauls and mikrotiks.
>>
>> Theres a guy named Josh Powell out of Peoria, guys amazing to find
>> solutions on networking who has a great ability to dumb things down so a
>> window licker like me can understand it.
>>
>> Josh Luthmans probably tired of answering my facebook questions too
>>
>> But, even though when this project is broken down to its components, its
>> all simple WISPs stuff, Im still pretty proud to have gotten it done. I
>> learned a whole lot
>>
>>
>> https://cdn.cambiumnetworks.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/COVID-19-Education-Response-04222020.pdf
>>
>>
>> Cambium is amazing, a tiny no account WISP in central Illinois reached
>> out to the degenerates at afmug one night, and Scott Imhoff reaches back
>> the next day. Next thing you know we are keeping continuity for
>> under-served student families. I got to deal with all kinds of cambium
>> folks. they showed me how to use the products more efficiently, Theyre
>> really a solid company, and im no vendor fanboy.
>>
>> The cool thing is we opened this up across our territory to all the
>> school districts. other than PMP load, it will not have a huge amount of
>> impact, since it egresses the school network and flows opposite our normal
>> back-haul traffic in most cases. We are looking to expand this to a
>> permanent program.
>>
>> We did find out the rural homework gap, in our area at least is not huge,
>> one of the districts had already achieved 100 percent access, I cant stop
>> talking them up in our community for that.
>>
>> We got 6 names today, 2 were good for sure, one shows good, but is in a
>> pot i normally wouldnt have considered, 2 are unservicable, but we will
>> drive by and verify and one is in range of one of the school Wifi hotspots.
>>
>> I could go on and on
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT some mirth

[Cameron Crum]

If we only had video of the look on their faces...priceless.

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:16 PM  wrote:

> Was watching a comic on TV and it reminded me of something
>
> When my oldest daughter was fixin to get married 15 or so years ago, she
> obtained a book that had a title something similar to : a gay man’s guide
> to pleasuring a man.  I had no idea she did this.
>
> I picked up some guys for some kind of business meeting and they got in
> the back seat of my car.
> Later that day I discovered that book laying on the back seat floor of the
> car.
>
> I can’t remember who they guys were but they were from out of state and I
> picked them up at the airport I think.
> If you were one of those guys... well I did not read the book.   Sorry to
> get your hopes up...
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] AF Digest, Vol 23, Issue 606

[Ryan McAfee]

Brother, at least, makes some mobile thermal printers. Gamber Johnson and
Lund both make mounts for vehicles for them (intended for emergency vehicle
use).

https://brothermobilesolutions.com/products/mobile-printers/pocketjet/

Ryan

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 12:07 PM  wrote:

> Message: 1
> Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2020 10:37:09 -0600
> From: 
> To: 
> Subject: [AFMUG] mobile printing
> Message-ID: <72C79E275EB44D449B9C68DD1169F370@MCCOWNTECH.local>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Is there such a thing as a reliable, non ink jet, mobile printer?  I have
> crews out on construction jobs that need to have things like drill logs and
> progress reports.  Sometimes they run out of a particular form.  Or need a
> printed copy of a permit.  Not sure it is practical to have a printer in a
> vehicle but ran into it again this morning.
> -- next part --
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: <
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/private/af_af.afmug.com/attachments/20200423/4c59d6b0/attachment-0001.html
> >
>
> --
>
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
>
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
>
> End of AF Digest, Vol 23, Issue 606
> ***
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Cameron Crum]

David,

I'm curious what you can't do with the v1 API. I have yet to find something
I haven't been able to help people with in custom integrations with Sonar's
API. Obviously, things will change with v2, but I'd be curious to know what
you are needing.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:19 AM David Coudron 
wrote:

> We see the same thing as Mike is referring to.  We would really like to
> get to v2.0.   There has been quite a bit of discussion about it and
> webinars saying it is ready and so on, but when you really press on the
> topic, you find out many of the necessary features aren’t ready and you
> can’t migrate.   We have been in this state for months, and it doesn’t seem
> like anything will change anytime soon.   Our recommendation is, make
> absolutely sure the current feature set works for you, do not assume you
> will be using v2.0 because that timeline isn’t set.
>
>
>
> We want to move to v2.0 to take advantage of the new API stuff, as we’d
> like to do some simple integration that doesn’t work with the v1.x API.
> We are also hoping we will see improvement in the stability of the
> monitoring in v2.0.   We have found that the monitoring in the current
> version isn’t nearly as reliable as Powercode and we have had to supplement
> it with another tool.
>
>
>
> That being said, we can’t say enough about the integration with Preseem,
> as Preseem has been an indispensable addition to our toolset.   I imagine
> you could use Preseem pretty successfully without Powercode or Sonar, but
> the Sonar to Preseem integration makes it so easy to put Preseem in, and
> Preseem has a lot of value.   It is our most used monitoring and
> troubleshooting tool.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Mike Hammett
> *Sent:* Thursday, April 23, 2020 7:06 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> No one I know is running 2.0 because it isn't finished and doesn't seem
> likely to be finished by fall.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Sterling Jacobson" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Wednesday, April 22, 2020 11:42:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
> Text to customer isn’t a feature yet.
>
>
>
> Are you running v2.0 Sonar already?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Sean Heskett
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 7:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> if you only want to do billing Platypus is still around and is relatively
> cheap, but it is literally a billing platform only.
>
>
>
> Sonar is a total CRM as well as business management platform...the whole
> enchilada.
>
>
>
> -sean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 6:58 PM  wrote:
>
> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>
> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>
> Simon is a standup guy.
>
>
>
> *From:* Sean Heskett
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>
>
>
> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>
>
>
> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>
>
>
> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just about
> every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer, fleet
> tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>
>
>
> -Sean
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>
> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at some
> point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing platform.
>
>
>
> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
> alive?
>
> Opinions?
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing 

Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

[Ken Hohhof]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Silent-700-model-745-printing-terminal-w-ac
oustic-coupler/45180513?hash=item4d9cebcb61:g:3boAAOSwqzFdkWk9

 

Might be difficult to find paper for it though.

 

More seriously, it looks like Brother makes something called a PocketJet
with mounts and DC  power supplies for use in vehicles.

 

https://www.tessco.com/search#q=pocketjet

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 11:37 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] mobile printing

 

Is there such a thing as a reliable, non ink jet, mobile printer?  I have
crews out on construction jobs that need to have things like drill logs and
progress reports.  Sometimes they run out of a particular form.  Or need a
printed copy of a permit.  Not sure it is practical to have a printer in a
vehicle but ran into it again this morning.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Not a movie, but as a Piston’s fan I suggest the Michael Jordan series on ESPN. 
 First one was called the Last Dance.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 1:08 PM, Eric Nielsen  wrote:
> 
> 
> In preparation of No Time to Die later this year I’ve been watching the older 
> Bond films, mostly for nostalgia. Though terribly cheesy, they’re still 
> pretty entertaining. All are available on Amazon Prime, some eve remastered.
> 
> I also hear Knives Out is wonderful - it’s next on my list.
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:03 PM Gilbert Gutierrez 
>>  wrote:
>> Longmire on Netflix was good until the last season or two when it became 
>> predictable.
>> 
>> Gilbert
>> 
 On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller 
  wrote:
 
 Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu.  Was on TNT...
 
 Sent from my smartphone
 
 - Reply message -
 From: ch...@wbmfg.com
 To: 
 Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
 Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM
 
 Anyone have anything to recommend?
 I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was well worth watching.
 Death of Stalin was good. 
 Starting to watch Killing Eve. 
 Devs just got weird.  Meh
 Westworld is getting weird too. 
 Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs. 
 Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much of a 
 chick flick for me at the end.
 I like High Maintenance.
 Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
 Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
 BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the creator.  He did 
 Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.
  
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> Eric Nielsen
> 571-508-7409
> ericlniel...@gmail.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] mobile printing

[Dan Spitler]

Would thermal be OK?
https://brothermobilesolutions.com/products/mobile-printers/pocketjet/
Warning: they're not cheap.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:37 AM  wrote:

> Is there such a thing as a reliable, non ink jet, mobile printer?  I have
> crews out on construction jobs that need to have things like drill logs and
> progress reports.  Sometimes they run out of a particular form.  Or need a
> printed copy of a permit.  Not sure it is practical to have a printer in a
> vehicle but ran into it again this morning.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Eric Nielsen]

In preparation of No Time to Die later this year I’ve been watching the
older Bond films, mostly for nostalgia. Though terribly cheesy, they’re
still pretty entertaining. All are available on Amazon Prime, some eve
remastered.

I also hear Knives Out is wonderful - it’s next on my list.

On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 1:03 PM Gilbert Gutierrez <
mailing-li...@phxinternet.com> wrote:

> Longmire on Netflix was good until the last season or two when it became
> predictable.
>
> Gilbert
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu.  Was on TNT...
>>
>> Sent from my smartphone
>>
>> - Reply message -
>> From: ch...@wbmfg.com
>> To: 
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
>> Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM
>>
>> Anyone have anything to recommend?
>> I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night.  It was well worth
>> watching.
>> Death of Stalin was good.
>> Starting to watch Killing Eve.
>> Devs just got weird.  Meh
>> Westworld is getting weird too.
>> Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs.
>> Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much of a
>> chick flick for me at the end.
>> I like High Maintenance.
>> Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
>> Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
>> BlackAF is interesting.  Especially if you read up on the creator.  He
>> did Blackish.  I think I will tire of it soon.
>>
>>
> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
Eric Nielsen
571-508-7409
ericlniel...@gmail.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

[Christopher Tyler]

"Breeders" is pretty funny with some dark humor in it, on Hulu I think.

-- 
Christopher Tyler
Senior Network Engineer
MTCRE/MTCNA/MTCTCE/MTCWE

Total Highspeed Internet Solutions
1091 W. Kathryn Street
Nixa, MO 65714
(417) 851-1107 x. 9002
www.totalhighspeed.com

- Original Message -
> From: "Gilbert Gutierrez" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 12:02:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions

> Longmire on Netflix was good until the last season or two when it became
> predictable.
> 
> Gilbert
> 
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 9:43 PM CBB - Jay Fuller < [
> mailto:par...@cyberbroadband.net | par...@cyberbroadband.net ] > wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Go watch "the last ship" on Hulu. Was on TNT...
> 
> Sent from my smartphone
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: [ mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com | ch...@wbmfg.com ]
> To: < [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com | af@af.afmug.com ] >
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT movie suggestions
> Date: Wed, Apr 22, 2020 7:41 PM
> 
> Anyone have anything to recommend?
> I saw the Ronda Rousey documentary last night. It was well worth watching.
> Death of Stalin was good.
> Starting to watch Killing Eve.
> Devs just got weird. Meh
> Westworld is getting weird too.
> Billions starts up again soon... that is one of my favs.
> Little fires was interesting in the beginning but became too much of a chick
> flick for me at the end.
> I like High Maintenance.
> Better call Saul is coming to and end... sob...
> Homeland is ending this week ... sob ...
> BlackAF is interesting. Especially if you read up on the creator. He did
> Blackish. I think I will tire of it soon.
> --
> AF mailing list
> [ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ]
> [ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com |
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ]
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] billing

[Josh Luthman]

Charles Wu at CTI sold Powercode for a while.  That was the last bit of
time where it was in Utah.  After this, Bertram bought Powercode.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 11:04 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Bertram bought powercode, they are the current owner. It had changed hands
> many times since inception, but bertram has been in it for the long haul
>
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020, 9:42 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> I never heard that, are you sure?  I thought Powercode came out of
>> Bertram.  Same WISP that I think bought the remnants of Trango, I could be
>> misremembering that last part.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 8:03 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> Is Charles Wu still a powercode owner?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:58 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> I used Plat years ago and was happy with it.
>>
>> So glad to hear you are happy with Sonar.
>>
>> Simon is a standup guy.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Sean Heskett
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 22, 2020 6:55 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] billing
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is awesome, you won't be disappointed.
>>
>>
>>
>> we started with platypus, moved to powercode, it was an upgrade from plat
>> but was way too clunky and at the time powercode couldn't do RADIUS so,
>> after 18 months of trying to make our business model fit to the powercode
>> way we moved to Sonar and haven't looked back.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sonar is very forward thinking with their service and they have just
>> about every integration under the sun you could think of (text to customer,
>> fleet tracking, preseem QoS, snail mail marketing etc.)
>>
>>
>>
>> -Sean
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:59 PM  wrote:
>>
>> I will probably be launching a new network this calendar year.  So at
>> some point I will once again have to try to choose the best billing
>> platform.
>>
>>
>>
>> Leaking toward Sonar.  Have used Plat in the past.  Is Powercode still
>> alive?
>>
>> Opinions?
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com